Balance issues

[Lucinator]

Huray the mod is out.  To help the moders ive started a balance issues section

Mine is with the super stardestroyers, I sent in 45 b-wings, three moncals and Akbar, and they still lost.

[Corey]

Were they all killed by the SSD or did other enemy ships (ie fighters) have anything to do with it?

[Lucinator]

only the ssd there was nothing in the system except it and one level one station

[Corey]

SSDs and stations have fighter compliments though. Did you take them out before attacking the SSD or just go straight for the SSD? Bomber spam doesn't work unless they're covered properly, proton torpedos still go through shields but they aren't especially powerful.

[Lucinator]

yes, and did you see how many hardpoints it had.

found another one, AAC missiles do almost no damage, especially given their cost

[Kalo]

No offense, but why would you try to take on a Super Star Destroyer with only 4 capital ships, and 45 bomber squadrons?

[Lucinator]

because capital ships get fried, you try and take it out with mon cals.

No offense, but why would you try to take on a Super Star Destroyer with only 4 capital ships, and 45 bomber squadrons?

I finally beat it, took 5 moncals, 4 assault frigates 5 correlian gunships and 150 bombers, lost 4 moncals, 2assultfrigates, and 98bombers

other balance issues:
admiral Akbar is still same as vinilla game, should be beefed up

MC-80b weaker than victory II class
 in cannon was stronger than imperial I (though weaker than imperial II)

[Corey]

If you're using that much to kill an ssd you're doing something wrong. Dane kiet has beaten 2 in one battle with a lot less lost units. Home One is the same as the vanilla version because the vanilla version was way overpowered. The mon cals from the rebellion are all converted luxury cruisers, not warships, and home one is no different.

When using bombers, they have to be protected. Fighters and bombers aren't damage sponges anymore. Do you mean 150 bombers, or 150 squadrons?

[Lucinator]

one should mention that movie homeone is 2.5km min and has only slightly less weapons than a stardestoyer, and is cannonly supposed to beat a stardestoyer.

[Zeron]

Uh no. The canon length for Home One is 1,300 meters. 300 meters less than an ISD. Canon Home One also only has 36 Turbolasers, and 36 Ion Cannons. The ISDI on the other hand has 6 Dual Heavy Turbolasers, 2 Dual Heavy Ion Cannons, 2 Quad Heavy Turbolasers, 3 Triple Medium Turbolasers, 2 Medium Turbolasers, 60 Heavy Turbolasers, and 60 Ion Cannons.

[Corey]

Since Zer has posted the canon ones, I'll post the mod ones. The ISd has had two laser cannons changed into ion cannons since release but still more or less the same as what you guys are playing with.

Home One:
Turbolasers: 4
Ion Cannons: 4

Imperial-I Star Destroyer:
Turbolasers: 10
Ion Cannons: 6

So if anything, the ISD should have some of those Turbolasers changed to doubles or heavies, but when that happens it becomes more powerful than is reasonable for game purposes.

[LucianoStarKiller]

i know it been said i find the SDs somewhat weak (at least by cannon)

[Zeron]

Weaker than what? While the Executor was obviously more than a match for an ISD, it wasn't until the development of the MC80B 1.5 years after Endor that any other ship was able to almost match an ISD although it still couldn't quite do it. Then came the MC90 and the New Class ships, but the ISDII was still regarded as advanced and powerful well into the Vong War.

And obviously you aren't actually going by canon, so please stop saying that you are.

[Lucinator]

several things, one zer's stardestroyer stats are wrong, the total is 60tubolaser, 60 ioncannons, that includes the quad hvy turolasers of ISDI and the octumplete On ISDII.  Note I was referring to the size of home one in the movie ROTJ see http://www.theforce.net/swtc/mcc.html#home1  and one should note in the vanilla game the ship is 3.2km long.(based on comparisons with stardestroyers)I know it's cannon lenth is less, however the sorce for these lenths are old sorcebooks and no novel lists it's lenth so one can be left open to inperitation as noted on wookipedia.
 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Home_One#cite_note-FF-1
 And I acknowledged that it had less weapons but with vastly greater shielding.  Also if you look at cannon mc-80b's were supposed to be able to beat ISDI's, Mc90's could beat ISDII's,

Lastly I'm seeing a lot of negative comments, I was just trying to offer suggestions of possible balance issues, I was hoping others would post what they saw as balance issues. I'm sorry if these suggestions offend anyone i'm not trying to do that.

[Corey]

I don't see what size has to do with power. If it was designed a warship, then there would probably be some correlation, but it wasn't. Even the site you're posting as your source is saying the same armament as we are, but with 7 fewer turbolasers. In that case the only thing we could do, even by your sources, is possibly increase shielding and maybe switch the turbos and ions with heavies.

And we're not getting offended, so don't worry about that. These aren't personal attacks against you either. If you want to see offensive, you should see how the team talks to each other.

[capshades]

I'm going stay out of this, and return to the subject this topic was started for.

1.  The ISD octuple turbolaser cannons are way too underpowered.  When a turbolaser hits your ship, you know it.  When Eight heavies hit it at the same time, you don't feel it; your dead.

2.  Storm troopers die way to easily.  Yes, I know that since the death of the emperor, they kind of just gave up, but they were still better than rebels.

3.  AT-ATs also die way to easily.  The rebels could only take them out with tow-cable runs, starfighters using proton torps, or by infiltrating them.  Taking them out with plex missile launchers and T2-Bs just shouldn't be possible.

[LucianoStarKiller]

i agree with caps

and yes im going by cannon
SD may be strong in the mod but just because all units in space look underpowered
everything goes slow a hit in unshielded ship is deadly, my suggestion is make the shields and guns stronger and the hull weaker
its my opinion and please respect it
i fought the moncal80b in the mod with an ISDII plus fighter compliment and i was about to loose if another of my ships hadnt arrived

[Lucinator]

majestics seem out of place for their tech level, they seem slow and cost too much in pop points, they take up as many as a stardestroyer or moncal.

[Enceladus]

AT-ATs also die way to easily.  The rebels could only take them out with tow-cable runs, starfighters using proton torps, or by infiltrating them.  Taking them out with plex missile launchers and T2-Bs just shouldn't be possible.

I don't remember having any particular issues with AT-ATs being weak but I'll take them for a test run tonight. As for plexs and T2-B's taking them out, we simply can't make AT-Ats immune to them. That would mean that the unit would be invincible to certain types of units.  This would be pretty unbalanced and unfair in skirmish and GC modes. For example in GC if you had a whole bunch of units, but none of them were the particular type that could take out an AT-AT you'd be essentially f*cked and would end up losing a planet because you simply did not have the right units at the time. Not particularly fair.

its my opinion and please respect it

Nobody is disrespecting your opinion or in any way being particularly abrasive towards you.

@Lucinator

All Corey and Zer stating is that based on the canon specs of the ships in question and the origins of the ships (converted cruise liner vs. designated war ship) we are happy with the way they are in the mod at the moment and that there's a 99.9% chance that your suggestions won't be implemented in the mod. Frankly, no one else on the team (or based on the posts) people that have downloaded the mod are having the same issues you are having with destroying ships. If you don't like it you can always edit the XMLs afterwards to modify the ships to your own personal liking.  

[jlc9572]

- land-based Turbolaser Turrets seems overpowered; I know they can be overwhelmed but AI is too stupid to attack en masse.
- Rebel commando's bomb is far too weak; tossed one at an AT-ST and i doubt it did 1/20 damage; I think it should have caused maybe 1/2 damage no?