The Last Jedi (spoiler free)

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

We'll have to save that discussion for a spoiler discussion then.  To me, the soul of Star Wars was absolutely there from start to finish - and was in TFA and R1 as well.  But I suspect that what I view as the soul of Star Wars, and what you view as that soul, aren't quite the same thing.

I'm not saying the fandom shouldn't be pleased - I'm taking amusement in that the fandom is impossible to please, because the fandom is huge and diverse and every individual within loves their own unique combination of things about Star Wars, and so trying to please one will inevitably piss off another.  I've also been amused by how Star Trek Discovery has been received by lifelong Star Trek fans - many similarly say that it hasn't felt like Star Trek, but as another of those lifelong fans I couldn't disagree more in that case either.

Yep, you're right I happen to be a Star Trek fan as well (to a lesser extent), but this probably isn't the place to voice my frustration about that franchise too. 

[turtle225]

The main characters all had solid arcs, the action was fun and well done, the humor was a great reprieve from the weighty character beats surrounding it.

Note: If you are really strict on spoilers then don't read on but I'll be vague.

I actually disagree with you on these points but I can't be too specific without spoilers. Two of the three main character's arcs could have been avoided entirely if characters in the movie weren't idiots. Only one of the three main characters actually seems to show some development.

The action was fun sure but consistently immersion breaking. Clearly made for Hollywood instead of logic.

The humor I disagree with also. A lot of it felt out of place and gag worthy. I know that humor can be a nice change of pace in a darker story but it just didn't feel natural to me.

I know it is a matter of personal taste so don't think that I'm attacking you or anything, I just didn't feel the same way.

I want to point out that regardless of the Star Wars paint on this movie, it is a badly written movie that has no world building, plot holes, flat/irrelevant/idiot characters and story arcs, and just overall bad writing. I want to make it clear that I don't just hate this movie because Disney made it and killed the EU, but really just that I believe it was a bad movie in general.

[Pali]

Addressing any of those points requires a spoiler discussion.  Suffice to say, I don't agree.

[Lord Xizer]

Addressing any of those points requires a spoiler discussion.  Suffice to say, I don't agree.

And I'd be happy to both hear you out in such a discussion and offer civilized debate.

[Shermos]

I'm honestly surprised so much of the fandom didn't like TLJ. It's not a perfect movie, and since I started this thread, I've come across a lot of critiques which are perfectly valid. The thing I appreciated was that Rian took risks and took the story and lore into a new direction. The biggest complaint about TFA was that it was too similar to the original film, and now people are complaining about TLJ being too different. I can understand criticisms such as what was done with Luke's character, but I can also understand why Rian took him in the direction he did.

Since Disney decanonised the old EU, I wanted it to take Star Wars in a new direction, and TLJ is much closer to what I was hoping for than TFA was. The OLD EU and Disney canon exist in parallel universes in my mind. I can enjoy both.   

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

I'm honestly surprised so much of the fandom didn't like TLJ. It's not a perfect movie, and since I started this thread, I've come across a lot of critiques which are perfectly valid. The thing I appreciated was that Rian took risks and took the story and lore into a new direction. The biggest complaint about TFA was that it was too similar to the original film, and now people are complaining about TLJ being too different. I can understand criticisms such as what was done with Luke's character, but I can also understand why Rian took him in the direction he did.

Since Disney decanonised the old EU, I wanted it to take Star Wars in a new direction, and TLJ is much closer to what I was hoping for than TFA was. The OLD EU and Disney canon exist in parallel universes in my mind. I can enjoy both.

A much heavier discussion has been going on in the spoiler thread. TLJ is all people are talking about on this forum in recent weeks. But maybe this goes to most Star Wars-related forums at the moment, idk. It certainly seems like a divisive topic. People either love or hate this film. Not many consider it an average one, as I do, for instance.

I absolutely agree with your take on the EU. The "canon" doesn't have anything in common with it, spirit-wise, so they absolutely should be considered to be separate things, which they are. Now I sound like Anton Chigurh, lol. But you're right. The one way for me to deal with my disappointment with TLJ, and the direction the "canon" is going, was to remind myself that Thrawn's Revenge, Heir to the Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, etc., still exist, and won't ever go away.