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The Lounge / Re: Obama (please read this thread before assumptions of this thread)
« on: August 27, 2009, 03:11:31 PM »
Wall-of-text time! Slornie, while ideologically secure, your argument contains one very major flaw, probably the most overlooked flaw in our world today. That flaw is the purpose and place of government itself, which would be the tool used to ban and confiscate those weapons (and a gun is not the only weapon used to commit crimes, btw. If you ban them for the people, you ban them for the police as well. It doesn't discourage crime at all; it just takes a single kind of weapon completely out of the question legally). Governments worldwide (America's included) are trying very hard to find ways to regulate and restrict and control people's lives. They sugar-coat their actions by saying that they are making life better for everyone, but the leaders of these governments are socialists and will not be satisfied until they have socialism. (We can see that by the way Obama guaranteed recently that "we will have healthcare reform". It doesn't matter how he does it, Obama will push healthcare reforms through, because they accomplish his own goals.) The primary goal of socialists, which we can see clearly through (1) healthcare bill (2) gun-control, as well as (3) the mocking of those who voice their concerns at town hall meetings, is to create an easy-to-manage middle man. They're trying to eliminate the rich and the poor at the same time in Robin Hood fashion. Why? Because generic, middle-class citizens who don't control their medical welfare and who don't have the means to defend themselves are ridiculously easy to control and rule. Communism is the goal, my friend, and if you don't believe that, then take a peek at the lives of some of these 'czars' Obama is appointing. Sometimes a person's friends can speak volumes about his character, as well as his intentions.
Now as for Corusca Fire:
I resist the great urge to get into an argument over this, as it's quite obvious that the only thing accomplished thus far is a dramatic increase of our national debt.
Did you know that 90% of all statistics are made on the spot?
This one is entirely without a reliable source, as well as any credibility whatsoever, and therefore, will be ignored by me.
It does all snowball, which is exactly what our leaders want. They've been waiting for this moment for decades, and now that it's here, they're not going to waste it. Now that GM is being fed lots and lots of money, they, as well as anyone tied to them, are indebted and obligated towards the government, and specifically, the Obama administration. They (the administration) now have a lot more of a grip on this country's economy. They've got millions of jobs to wave in people's faces (secretly, of course), jobs they could let go of at any moment they chose.
So far, you're right. They have only regulated our financial activities. So far. But pal, it's not going to stop at the financial level, especially since sometimes, financial and social can be woven together. We can already see places in which the government IS trying to regulate or preparing to regulate the social aspects of our lives. Want some examples? Gun control is one of them. Removing the Ten Commandments from courthouses, and prayer from schools, are two others. Branding preachers and others opposed to homosexuality and other controversies as hate criminals is yet another, a very abominable one which will not be overlooked when the leaders of this government face an Almighty God one day. They ought not to be overlooked now.
I won't argue about this, as it's really a pointless debate. Obama's apologies to the world were simple tactics to increase his own popularity among the international community. A great many people in this world hate America, and not because we're arrogant. Getting an apology makes them feel good, especially towards Obama. It's got nothing to do with today's major issues.
I find this to be a matter of opinion among most people, it really is debatable though. The regulations I've listed so far don't seem to be for people's safety. The statistic is rather unlikely, and exploiting companies so that they won't exploit their workers is hardly a good management policy. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The reason he is raising taxes for such "qualified" (a.k.a. rich) people, is to slowly drain them of their acquired wealth. It is, in effect, stealing their riches to use for their own purposes. Ultimately, it will still end up the same way: one across-the-board middle class. Besides, the point still stands that Obama IS raising taxes for more than just the rich. He has admitted that (in a meeting with the people of Montana), saying that providing 46 million people with healthcare will not be free or cheap. He promised people during his campaign that he would not raise their taxes, and he is now going against his word. That's a serious thing, especially for the president of the United States.
Here it is. The great error of the way you're viewing current issues is that you're only looking at what it's doing now and how people are changing our lives today. People have to start considering the long-term ramifications of the decisions that are being made in these times, because we experience the benefits today. We face the consequences tomorrow.
Now as for Corusca Fire:
Im going to have to agree with Slorine here. Obama is doing what is necessary to get a girp on our recession. And, by the way, throwing money at it is one of the simple three step way to fix the economy 1) Stimulus 2) Reorganization 3) Repair.
I resist the great urge to get into an argument over this, as it's quite obvious that the only thing accomplished thus far is a dramatic increase of our national debt.
And global warming IS fact. 96% of scientists agree on this. Its just that they let just as many people from the 4% dissent on fox news as they do the 96% assent, so it looks like there is actually significant debate within the scientific community
Did you know that 90% of all statistics are made on the spot?
This one is entirely without a reliable source, as well as any credibility whatsoever, and therefore, will be ignored by me.And if we did not bail out those car companies, millions would have lost jobs. Hundreds of thousands of autoworkers, then on top of that all the hundreds of thousands that build the parts for GM. On top of that, tens of thousands at the companies that supply the raw materials. And all those companies are obviously invested in, so it would be bad for the banks and the stock market. Even more people would loose their life savings, get forclosed, have to move (and probably loss their job). See? It all snowballs.
It does all snowball, which is exactly what our leaders want. They've been waiting for this moment for decades, and now that it's here, they're not going to waste it. Now that GM is being fed lots and lots of money, they, as well as anyone tied to them, are indebted and obligated towards the government, and specifically, the Obama administration. They (the administration) now have a lot more of a grip on this country's economy. They've got millions of jobs to wave in people's faces (secretly, of course), jobs they could let go of at any moment they chose.
The government is regulating our FINANCIAL activities not our social ones (with the exception of guns, which, by the way are banned even in freaking CANADA now! See! Even the Canadians are more civilized than us!)
So far, you're right. They have only regulated our financial activities. So far. But pal, it's not going to stop at the financial level, especially since sometimes, financial and social can be woven together. We can already see places in which the government IS trying to regulate or preparing to regulate the social aspects of our lives. Want some examples? Gun control is one of them. Removing the Ten Commandments from courthouses, and prayer from schools, are two others. Branding preachers and others opposed to homosexuality and other controversies as hate criminals is yet another, a very abominable one which will not be overlooked when the leaders of this government face an Almighty God one day. They ought not to be overlooked now.
And, by the way, america was arrogant under the bush administration. We acted like we were the top of the world and stuck our freaking noses into everyone's business. We acted like we could operate with impunity from consequences! Look where we are now!
I won't argue about this, as it's really a pointless debate. Obama's apologies to the world were simple tactics to increase his own popularity among the international community. A great many people in this world hate America, and not because we're arrogant. Getting an apology makes them feel good, especially towards Obama. It's got nothing to do with today's major issues.
One thing that annoys me is that people complain about regulations, while a good 95% of regulations are FOR PEOPLE'S SAFETY. they are so compaines dont exploit workers and customers.
I find this to be a matter of opinion among most people, it really is debatable though. The regulations I've listed so far don't seem to be for people's safety. The statistic is rather unlikely, and exploiting companies so that they won't exploit their workers is hardly a good management policy. Two wrongs don't make a right.
And as for taxes, he is only raising taxes on people with a household gross annual INCOME (not savings, income) of over, i think it was at least $160,000. That is the top 5%. As for sales taxes, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT IMPOSE SALES TAXES, with the exception of some excise taxes on gas, cigars, etc which are levied on producers. Sales taxes are for state and local governments. So, if you dont want those raised, would you prefer that your roads not get repaired, your schools not get updated, your bridges rust and rot, your local government go broke, and public goods generally bleed into non-existance?
The reason he is raising taxes for such "qualified" (a.k.a. rich) people, is to slowly drain them of their acquired wealth. It is, in effect, stealing their riches to use for their own purposes. Ultimately, it will still end up the same way: one across-the-board middle class. Besides, the point still stands that Obama IS raising taxes for more than just the rich. He has admitted that (in a meeting with the people of Montana), saying that providing 46 million people with healthcare will not be free or cheap. He promised people during his campaign that he would not raise their taxes, and he is now going against his word. That's a serious thing, especially for the president of the United States.
Here it is. The great error of the way you're viewing current issues is that you're only looking at what it's doing now and how people are changing our lives today. People have to start considering the long-term ramifications of the decisions that are being made in these times, because we experience the benefits today. We face the consequences tomorrow.