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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: Proposal for a Zero Command-Empire Reborn Alliance Faction

« on: May 25, 2018, 12:19:39 PM »

Why wouldn't Harrsk be on Whirlwind in early eras? From what we know that was his command ship until around 12 ABY when he completed Shockwave.

He is in command of Whirlwind. Captain “Bolla Thoath” is a figment of his imagination,.

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: Proposal for a Zero Command-Empire Reborn Alliance Faction

« on: May 25, 2018, 06:43:56 AM »

I have been very busy  and haven’t had time to write this up like I wanted so instead of one large post I’ll try to write two or three smaller posts.

As a reminder I will create a bell’s and whistles faction profile that include ships and units not in the mod yet. Next to the new unit I will offer a suggestion on a ship or unit that already exists (either within the mod, the base game, or the upcoming Thrawn’s Revenge Clone Wars) and that could serve the same function. The purpose of this would be to enable the creation of this new faction with very minimal modding. Someone who has the talent could simply swap existing resources in.
In this post I will be covering the heroes available to Zero Command itself in Era one.

Zero Command Era 1: The Deep Galactic Core

General Overview

To make Zero Command a unique playing experience I've given some thought to the lineup of units and strategies available to Harrsk. Due to his location in the Deep Core I’d want Harrsk’s forces to have a Dark Empire esthetic.

The Supreme Warlord developed an erratic personality after suffering brain damage at the Battle of Endor. The damage to his mind was so severe that he would alternate between calm and suicidal aggression and fritter away the lives of his men on pointless offensives. Due to Harrsk's erratic personality he probably had a hard time recruiting new men. Harrsk's lack of resources is illustrated by the fact that he didn't have enough to repair and crew the Megador and Dominion and opted to let them languish in his Deep 3 facility.

Unlike, say, the Pentastar Alignment which equips its fighter forces with swarms of outdated fighters and bombers, Zero Command has more limited resources and would have to protect the lives of their pilots by supplying them with more modern and durable hardware. Zero Command falls well short of the extravagance the New Republic lavishes on their fighter/bomber arm but stands better compared to the Empire and other warlord factions. Harrsk would field a small number of elite human pilots  supported and protected by a larger swarm of disposable droid units.

His similarly limited ground resources would be the same. A small number of troops have to perform the duty of larger army formations, thus they would be equipped with heavy firepower and be designed to instill fear and demoralize the enemy before the battle has even started.

To cut down on personnel further, Harrsk would avoid manpower intensive ships such as Dreadnaughts, and instead prefer newer, more efficient Imperial ships. Heavy hitting, hangerless capital ships like the Tector and the Allegiance would be a mainstay of fleet.

Due to his proximity to weaker warlord factions Harrsk’s hero and unit roster can be bolster by an early conquest of his neighbors.

Era 1 Heroes

Supreme Warlord Harrsk

Space Hero Commanding the battlecruiser Ilthmar's Fist. The battlecruiser was one of two that fought at Endor (the other was destroyed). No mention is made of what type of battlecruiser, but if the Empire had a Preator or Bellator at Endor they probably would not have lost, so I’m going to assume something smaller and less powerful.

Something like a Procurator class battlecruiser. They  were 2,5000 meter ships manufactured by Kuat Drive Yards before the Clone Wars. They served as a advertisement of the type of large and prestigious ships KDY was capable of building. During the Clone Wars they were likely upgraded to more modern specifications like the larger Mandators.

The only problem is they don’t exist within the mod and the only non-canon model I know of is a very nice one done by Fractalsponge. If no Procurator model is available then an Allegiance class battlecruiser will more than suffice.

Special Commander Bonus: Press the Attack!

Harrsk’s split personality causes him to disregard the his own safety and that of his men. Grants a 10% offensive boost to Haarsk and all forces in the battle but at the cost 15% penalty to shields.

Special Ability: Summon Arrowhead Command.

Prior to Endor Harrsk was in charge of Arrowhead Command and charged with defending part of the Core Worlds. As a personal favor to his friend Admiral Piett he attached Arrowhead to Darth Vader’s command to bolster the forces at the Battle of Endor. Once the battle was lost he retreated to the Deep Galactic Core. Two Tector’s and 3 Imperial Star Destroyers joined him and I assume that these made up the portion of Arrowhead Command that was present at Endor.

Summoning 5 capital ships of that type is a bit overpowered so I think Summon Arrowhead Command should bring 1 Tector and the Imperial Star Destroyer Whirlwind into the battle commanded by “Bolla Thoath”.

The real Bolla Thoath died at Endor but when Harrsk was wounded he developed a split personality. The more measured and sane part of his personality assumed the identity of Thoath and it was the alternate personality who countermanded many of Harrsk’s more suicidal orders. When “Bolla Thoath” and the Whirlwind arrive in the battle it should completely negate Harrsk’s previous ability, Press the Attack! While Thoath is on the battlefield all Zero Command forces should receive a modest 5% defensive bonus.

Grand Admiral Martio Batch

After fleeing for his life after failing the Emperor legends material stated that his own crew assassinated him before they took his fleet to join Zero Command. Much like how Grand Admiral Syn can be recruited by Greater Maldrood, even though he was killed by Ackbar, Grand Admiral Batch can be recruited by Zero Command.

Space Hero Commanding the Star Destroyer Meniscus. Since Grand Admiral Batch preferred hiding and escaping to fighting so he gives all forces a 5% bonus to speed.

Odik II Capital of Shadowhand Sector


By conquering certain worlds the various warlord gain additional hero units. Odik II is the capital of Sector 5 “Shadowhand”.  During the Empire, Grand Moff Gann blanketed his sector under various security cordons and only allowed authorized personnel to enter. Massive and secretive construction projects were well under way by the time of Endor. After the death of the Emperor Grand Moff Gann found his authority eroded by his subordinates like Admirl Yzu who kept the Grand Moff around as a figurehead but retained the real power for themselves and effectively became a warlord.

I. Grand Moff Gann Economic/Security hero. Grants steep price discounts for structures, ground buildings, shipyards, defense platforms but not for units. By shrouding the entire Deep Galactic Core in Secrecy gains the ability to completely hide the space and ground units at his location from enemy spies. Not that helpful against the AI but if you can ever play a multiplayer campaign it could be very useful.

II. Admiral Malfkla Yzu Space Hero. Commands a generic Imperial Star Destroyer. Modest 5% bonus to offensive capabilities of forces under his command.

The Constitutional Protectorate of Prakith- Fortress World and the location of the terrifying Citidel Inquisitorious

A minor world located within Sector 5, Prakith gained notoriety after it became the headquarters for the Imperial Inquisitorious and for the brutality and rapaciousness of the Imperial Governor Foga Brill. Like Admiral Yzu, Governor Brill remained loyal to his superior Grand Moff in name only but acted independently. He curried favor with Admiral Yzu who promoted him to Moff.
After Endor and the breakdown of Imperial Authority Moff Brill created a secretive and isolationist police state fanatically dedicated to order and obedience . Prakith became a fortress world and the population was wracked with suffering as Moff Brill attempted to extract every resource for his military effort. He created his own “Prakith Grand Imperial Navy” to protect the space under his control and to waylay any ship unwary enough to fall into his clutches.

I. Moff Foga Brill Economc hero. His cruelty and active delight in inflicting pain grants the governor a time discount for construction time at his location by finding new ways to motivate his subordinates. His obsession with order allow him to construct Imperial Prison Complexes at his  location. The prison complex prevents hostile civilians from spawning during ground battles and serve as forced labor camps where prisoners must toil and die. The prisons grant a slight price and time discount to units built on worlds where they are present. The time discount stacks with Brill’s time discount. Moff Foga Brill is also corrupt and open to bribery. Decreases the credit generation at his location.

II. Captain Ors Dogot Space Hero/Spy Unit. An officer in Moff Foga Brill’s Grand Imperial Navy, Captain Dogot command the Imperial Patrol Frigate Bloodprice. A Patrol Frigate is a Nebulon-B Frigate with 1/3 of the decks removed to cut down on crew requirements and equipped with a complex array of sensors to monitor space for nearby ships. On the Galactic map Dogot provides intelligence on surrounding systems. In battle he commands an Imperial Patrol Frigate. If no new model is available the standard Nebulon-B can be used.

III. Captain Gegak- Space Hero. Prakith officer and commander of the Adz Class Patrol Destroyer Tobay. Power to Weapons special ability. The Adz Class Destroyer is an interesting looking ship and no model that exists in game seems to come close to it. It is only 150 meters long so a CR90 or IPV could be an adeqate substitute.

IV. Captain Voba Dokrett- Space Hero. A Prakith officer who commands the Gorath, a strike cruiser variant. Only 300 meters long while a standard strike cruiser is 450, the Gorath is equipped with breaching pods to capture enemy ships. Special ability to capture enemy vessels during combat. A standard Strike cruiser model can be used since there is only a slight difference in size.

V. High Inquisitor Antinnis Tremayne Space Hero/Ground Hero. A feared and efficient member of the Inquisitorious, Tremayne remained alive long after Endor. Later in the war he pledged loyalty to Lord Hethrir and informed him of the fabled Lost Valley of the Jedi. In Space he commands the Imperial II Star Destroyer Interrogator. On the Ground his special abilities include saber throw. (I am a bit torn about including Tremayne as an Era 1 Hero. Canon material does mention his link to Hethrir which would make him era 4 hero. But Prakith is the headquarters for the Inquisitorious and it would seem odd not to include at least 1 inquisitor hero when you control their headquarters. If Tremayne is too far fetched I’m sure there some other inquisitors kicking around who either haven’t been killed or who haven’t already pledged themselves to an existing warlord faction).

And those are the Era starting heroes and heroes recruitable on conquered worlds. The post has gone long enough. In the next installment I will talk about the units available to Zero Command in Era 1.

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: Proposal for a Zero Command-Empire Reborn Alliance Faction

« on: May 19, 2018, 10:35:47 AM »

Dude, you should know something.
Xizer is wookiepedia walking on legs. Usually it is not worth it to go into an arguement with him, as he will prove you wrong with facts.

Then it is extremely fortunate that my main critique of his post was based on his faulty reasoning and not on his knowledge.

And either way, he did not say that Hethrir  can't be a hero, he said that the Empire Reborn and the Desciples of Ragnos are the ones that does not fit.

I addressed this in my very first post and in my third post. I'm not entirely sure how I can rephrase this since it seems I am unable to convoy myself clearly. Let me quote myself again:  The Cult of Ragnos could also be used for more material if needed. No mention has been made of Tavion's cult being associated with Hethrir after Desann's defeat but the forces at her disposal lead me to suspect she had the backing of Hethrir- that massive fortress of Taspir III seems like it would be beyond the reach of a lowly failed apprentice to a dark side adept.

The reborn under her command in Jedi Academy are recruited directly from those who survived Jedi Outcast. And Legends material state that in Outcast they were working for Hethrir even though he was never directly mentioned in the game. From this it can be inferred that some or all of her other forces were recruited from Hethrir's surviving forces.

To flesh out a faction, it requires units. The ground units you fight in Jedi Outcast/Academy would contribute towards this. From Jedi Academy you have the New Reborn and Sith Cultists,  the Hazard Troopers you fight on Vjun, the Jump Troopers you fight on the Kril'Dor mining platforms, and the imperial saboteurs with stealth field generators. 

He also pointed out that Hethrir was proposing an alliance to multiple warlords. If my memory is not playing a trick on me, Daala did the same which ended with the warlords bickering for hours on end, and the only solution was that she gassed the whole chamber.
And Just to point out, Xizer never mentioned any specific warlords, so where the hell you pulled those two out, I have no idea.

Xizer's exacts words were: Well there's a few issues here. Hethrir did attempt to forge alliances with the Deep Core Warlords, not just Zero Command.

His argument was meant to dismiss the proposal for Zero Command. I infer from his statement that he is including Greater Maldrood and Delvardus because the inclusion of those two warlords would preclude a separate faction with Hethrir and Harrsk. First because within the mod they already exist as faction. Second, because within the Legends material Harrsk was in a bitter struggle with Maldrood.

This seemed like the mostly likely meaning of his statement. His statement would make much less sense to me if he were including other deep core powers since 1) they do not exist in the mod and 2) there seem to be no Legends book like Darksaber detailing specific military skirmishes between Harrsk and other core warlords.

An alliance with Hethrir and Prakith does not preclude an alliance with Zero Command. It only means potential recruitable heroes such as Moff Brill and the Imperial Inquisitors.

An alliance with Hethrir and Grand Moff Cinzero Gann does not preclude an alliance with Zero Command. It only means a potential recruitable hero in the form of the Grand Moff himself.

An alliance with Hethrir and Admiral Malfkla Yzu does not preclude an alliance with Zero Command. It only means a potential recruitable hero in the form of the Admiral himself.

Therefore, I inferred that he was speaking specifically about the GM and EA. I could be mistaken but I think my interpretation is highly reasonable.

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: Proposal for a Zero Command-Empire Reborn Alliance Faction

« on: May 19, 2018, 06:00:05 AM »

I am still planning on putting together a faction profile but I am too busy at the moment.

Well there's a few issues here.
Hethrir did attempt to forge alliances with the Deep Core Warlords, not just Zero Command.

There is nothing in Legends that contradicts and much that directly, or indirectly support such an alliance.  Zero Command is the only one mentioned by name. I would argue that since Zero Command was only mentioned by name it probably was the most prominent and the other warlords mentioned are just small fry like Moff Foga Brill or nonentities like Grand Moff Gann.

If you want to argue that Hethrir was working with Greater Maldrood or Delvardus then provide evidence for it.

By the time of Desann(who was working for Hethrir) launching his Empire Reborn offensive Harrsk was dead and Zero Command reunified into the Empire under Pellaeon.

Hethrir forged an alliance with Harrsk and then Harrsk died. That does not contradict that fact that there was an alliance.

Let's take the logic you use here and apply it to the Pentastar Alignment of Powers.

The PA was formed in 4 ABY.

Jerec was part of the PA and died 5 ABY.

Grand Moff Kaine died 11 ABY and the PA was annexed by the Imperial Remnant in 12 ABY.

Jerec was only a member of the PA for about a single year, possibly less before he died. Under your logic, since Jerec and his dark Jedi died years before Kaine and the end of the PA, they should not be included as heroes for the PA.

That Harrsk was only briefly associated with Hethrir I am not disputing. I am only asserting that he was briefly but definitely associated with Hethrir. Much in the same was that Jerec was only briefly but definitely associated with the PA.

Further The Disciples of Ragnos were formed after Hethrir and the Empire Reborn movement were destroyed, so the time lines don't add up.

In my original post I already stated "No mention has been made of Tavion's cult being associated with Hethrir after Desann's defeat but the forces at her disposal lead me to suspect she had the backing of Hethrir- that massive fortress of Taspir III seems like it would be beyond the reach of a lowly failed apprentice to a dark side adept."

I already acknowledged there is nothing that states Tavion was working directly Hethrir at the time. But the fact remains that the bulk of her dark side force users were directly recruited from Hethrir's surviving reborn.

Here's how I suspect it went down: After Desann died Tavion was given his position within the Empire Reborn by Hethrir. All of the surviving Reborn would serve under her and she would serve Hethrir. When Hethrir died she already had the loyalty of the Reborn and struck out on her own.

I also find some similarities between Tavion's scheme and Hethrir's in the Crystal Star. Keep in mind that in the Crystal Star Hethrir's plan was to make sacrifices to Warru so the alien creature would bestow even greater dark side powers to Hethrir. Tavion took the Scepter of Ragnos and drained locations of their Force energy to resurrect Marka Ragnos.

This is all speculation but it is interesting to consider that maybe Tavion's plan was actually Hethrir's.  If Warru wouldn't give Hethrir what he wanted, maybe Plan B was to resurrect Marka Ragnos and have him instruct him further in the dark side.

I find it amusing to think that Hethrir would have trusted an interdimensional vampiric slime being more than an ancient Sith Lord.

In game terms, I think it might be fun if Hethrir's faction were to capture Korriban they could recruit Marka Ragnos as a hero. Like how Greater Maldrood can recruit Moff Getelles and Admiral Larm upon capturing Antemeridian sector

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: Proposal for a Zero Command-Empire Reborn Alliance Faction

« on: May 12, 2018, 09:27:18 PM »

I am digging through various Star Wars wiki articles and I am putting together a comprehensive unit, hero, and planet roster for Zero Command/Empire Reborn and hope to post it in a few days.

Really, there is a ton of  small references across various media which put together would create an impressive new faction.

I have zero modding ability so when I create the roster I am going to create two versions. The first one would be the bells and whistles version with ships and ground units drawn from cannon sources but may not be present in the mod and which would require someone with modding and editing skills to create.

The second version of the roster will simply include unis already present in the base game, Thrawn's Revenge: Warlords, or that will eventually show up in the Thrawn's Revenge Clone wars mod. The purpose of this secondary roster would be to enable someone with minimal modding skils to just swamp in already existing assets.

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Proposal for a Zero Command-Empire Reborn Alliance Faction

« on: May 11, 2018, 05:07:24 AM »

I’ve been lurking on Wookieepedia and I think I’ve discovered a connection that could flesh out Zero Command significantly. In this article on Hethrir's Empire Reborn it states http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Empire_Reborn :

(Hethrir) consolidated their presence in the Outer Rim, while alliances with Deep Core warlords such as Admiral Harrsk were pursued to strengthen their Core support.

I tracked down the wiki citation to this promotional material released for the video game Jedi Outcast http://web.archive.org/web/20060421182646/http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/spin.html:

Report from Rogue Leader:
While returning from a routine patrol to Phaeda, Rogue Squadron encountered an old Sentinel-class Imperial shuttle near Cairn, but it was lost in the asteroid field. I want to request an intelligence report on all unaccounted Cygnus Spaceworks or Sienar Fleet Systems transports and landing craft sold to the Empire, as well as a list of possible current owners for this type of ship. I recommend increasing the New Republic presence in the Lenico system until this ship can be identified. It is unlikely that the starship is acting independently. Rogue Squadron is currently heading into the Deep Core to look into the connections between Admiral Horrsk (sic) and the rumors of rogue Imperial ships forming allegiances with the warlords in that region.

Despite the misspelling of his name it seems clear that there was some level of cooperation between the Hethrir and our megalomaniacal warlord. With the fleets of Zero Command and the ground and hero units of the Empire Reborn added together there is enough material for a significant faction. Hethrir's forces also add somewhat to the territory of Zero Command. The Cult of Ragnos could also be used for more material if needed. No mention has been made of Tavion's cult being associated with Hethrir after Desann's defeat but the forces at her disposal lead me to suspect she had the backing of Hethrir- that massive fortress of Taspir III seems like it would be beyond the reach of a lowly failed apprentice to a dark side adept.

There is more than enough Legends Cannon material for this faction, far more than for Eriadu Authority or Greater Maldrood, in fact.

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: The starship suggestion list

« on: September 16, 2016, 06:48:06 AM »

The first one is only ever seen sitting on a CIS planet during Republic Commando or being through at someone by Starkiller; the only time it could really be used is in trying to flesh out a CIS roster, it was never in any way associated with anyone else and there's no basis on which to include it for anyone else. Even calling it the "Geoenosian Dreadnaught" is a fan thing that's only really been within EaW mods.



This one is a fanon design, pretty sure it's Evillejedi's Mandator.

What about your own version of the Mandator? There's is this ancient design from the Atari Empire Strikes back arcade game: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor-class_Star_Dreadnought/Legends?file=Atari_ESB_ship.jpg. It strikes me that it looks a wee bit Mandatish because of the humpbacked design. According to this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandator_III-class_dreadnought article on wookiepedia:

In addition, according to Ansel Hsiao on Stardestroyer.net forums around the time The Essential Guide to Warfare was released, both he and Jason Fry planned to make all the Mandator-series, in addition to the Bellator-class, humpbacked vessels similar to the one that appeared in Dark Empire, although nothing of the sort made it into the final cut by the time of its release. However, the intended humpbacked hulls of the Mandator-series was nonetheless implied in Jason Fry's endnotes for the book.

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Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback / Re: The starship suggestion list

« on: September 16, 2016, 06:35:18 AM »

The wingless Victory Class Star Destroyer variant seen in this panel of Dark Empire: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_I-class_Star_Destroyer?file=Avenger_Victory_Balmorra.jpg

Nothing is known about the stats of the ship and/or if they differ much from the Victory I or Victory II. But the wingless variant appears to be providing close escort for the ISD Avenger which was currently serving as the flagship of Executor Sedriss.

If it were added to the mod the wingless variant could be extrapolated as the final evolution of the Victory class- a Victory III, if you would. I've regarded the  Victory II as a partial downgrade over its predecessor since they removed all the concussion missile launchers. The wingless variant could incorporate the improvements of of the Victory II while retaining the concussion missile launchers or perhaps replacing them with proton torpedo launchers. Such a ships would allow the Imperial remnant to give those nasty Bothan Assault ships a run for their money.

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News & Updates / Re: We Could Be Heroes - The Pentastar Alignment

« on: September 10, 2016, 01:38:49 AM »

The model created by EvilleJedi is actually a (Legends) Cannon design. It may or may not be a Praetor I. The only really concrete information is the it is in excess of 3,200 meters, and it is known under the generic name of a TaggeCo Battlecruiser.

Here is the wookiepedia entry: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tagge_battlecruiser