Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Lord Xizer on January 23, 2018, 01:45:28 PM
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Carnor Jax. Last of the Sovereign Protectors, betrayer of the Royal Guard, Mastermind of Emperor Palpatine's final death and recognized Emperor in his final days, yet greatest traitor to the Imperial Cause. Seldom in galactic history has a man lived such polar opposites.
Carnor Jax was born to a Sun Guard that served Darth Sidious. His father was by all accounts loyal and skilled, but with Palpatine no one was above reproach. After failing in a mission, his father was executed by Sidious as an example to the other Sun Guards. Jax was unaware of how his father died or who murdered him. However at a young age, Jax was shown what happened to someone without power or connections, making him determined to gain more power for himself so as to become unassailable he also became exceptionally meticulous believing that the smallest detail could affect an outcome. Jax did not believe in justice or loyalty, he felt they were abstractions that the weak deluded themselves with and the powerful used as platitudes. He felt no shame for any action, so long as it furthered his own goals. In this way, he was a true sociopath. Jax saw the way the galaxy was feeding off the weak under Palpatine and thus devoted his every waking moment to becoming stronger in both power and influence with Palpatine as a goal, but Lord Vader's intimidating visage as an inspiration. As such it is only natural he joined the Imperial Army as a Stormtrooper- personally tied to the Emperor's command structure and visually associated with Lord Vader- and distinguished himself time after time in battle rising through the Stormtrooper ranks to command troopers himself. Aware that loyalty from the military was what gave the Emperor his power base Jax made a habit of cultivating loyalty with Imperial Officers he served with, impressing them and often maintaining connections with them from afar.
Eventually Jax qualified for training selection with the Royal Guard, seeing this as the ultimate chance to obtain connections in the centers of power. Unlike most of the trainees Jax was not there out of a sens eof loyalty and devotion to the Emperor, he saw it only as the best way to increase his own personal power. To this end he felt no camaraderie with his fellow guardsmen. Jax excelled in his training, only surpassed in skill by Bur Dannid and somewhat rivaled by Kir Kanos. It was at this time that the Emperor and Vader visited the academy to test the academies trainees. Vader personally selected their most skilled trainee and promptly toyed with him in the Squall then executed him. The other Guardsmen took the lesson to imply they must improve, Jax however saw it in an entirely different way. He saw it as how their lives meant nothing to the Emperor or Vader, that these two were not only an eventual threat to his own ambitions, but his very life. Jax doubled his efforts and reached his final test for the Guard, facing his team mate in mortal combat, unlike the other pair, Jax did not hesitate to kill his brother in arms and felt no remorse on the death, his fellows were just steps to his own ascension.
After this jax served with the Royal Guard of Palpatine and used his position to mingle with the Royal Court and the High Command. It was also during this time that Jax met Lumiya and Sarcev Quest. Both of whom found his latent force potential and began to train him in secret, though Jax played them off against each other learning from both, from Lumiya he learned the inner workings and history of the Sith, from Quest he learned politics of the inner circles of the Royal Court and some of the basics of the Force. Then came Endor while Jax was on rotation, he saw the opportunities of the Emperor and Vader's death and Lumiya attempting to reestablish the Order of Sith Lords under her vision and Quest's allies hunger for power. Jax accepted Lumiya's offer of apprenticeship while promising Quest to assist him in acquiring power for the Council and himself. In both of these arenas Jax had surpassed his mentors influence, he played the part of the trainee and figurehead while manipulating both for his own gain knowing Lumiya was in no position to replace him and Quest needed Jax's popularity with the military and court to keep him heading it behind the scenes. The next few years saw Lumiya, Jax and Quest working behind the scenes to secure their power while undermining their rivals or potential ones, like hunting down and killing the Prophets of the Dark Side, spurring the Council of Grand Moffs efforts while simultaneously sabotaging them. He also secured the patronage of General Redd Wessel's stormtroopers for his personal use. However they didn't count on how severely the Empire would fragment badly limiting their influence outside the centralized Empire. They largely sat out Thrawn's bid for power as Quest had been summoned to Byss to give fealty to the Reborn Emperor, Quest did so but now firmly allied with Jax, Lumiya and his Council, he was already dedicated to supplanting the Emperor. the three came up with a scheme whereby they would remove Palpatine and use the Ruling Council's influence to seize power over the Shadow Hand Fleet, the Galaxy Gun and the Eclipse to keep the Warlords cowed under Jax as a figurehead Emperor. Jax however already had plans within these plans, his eyes were set on the Throne in fact as well as name, also he craved the Darkside knowledge Palpatine stored in his vaults on Byss, with these he would no longer require Lumiya's teachings and could discard her. Jax suggested he be placed onto the Sovereign Protectors ranks in order to gain access to the Emperor's physician with a plan to poison the Emperor's clones while Quest secured the funds. With Quest's help Jax got placed onto the guard and convinced various Imperials whose personal power was limited due to the Emperor's return. In an ironic yet masterful plan, Jax orchestrated the betrayal and fall of Palpatine in very much the same way Palpatine himself had come to power. Using the corruption and greed of those who made up the political and military arms of the Emperor's new 'Dark Empire' Jax preyed on their fears, encouraged their hatreds, jealousies and fed their ambitions. He copied Palpatine's use of Emperor's Hands by taking an Imperial major named Blim as his personal agent loyal only to him as an assassin, bodyguard and enforcer. Setting up meetings through Quest, Jax sounded out potential allies while tricking those who would oppose the idea into coming to locations Blim could silence them. It took nearly a year of careful planning, collaborating and work, but Jax used Quest to get Sa Dee and Nefta to kill Palpatine's clone supply knowing they would be killed, as misdirection for the Emperor's Physician being bribed and poisoning the last batches-effectively dooming the Emperor to an accelerated decay that would ensure Palpatine put himself in the maximum risk to escape his fate. Jax then used the remaining funds to remove his name from the ranks of the Sovereign Protectors and joined Quest in the Mid Rim with the Council in preparation to seize power once Palpatine and his Dark Side Elite died. Jax now felt secure enough in his own power that he betrayed Lumiya, refusing to play the servant anymore, relying instead on Quest for the Force teachings since he held power over Quest until he could gain access to the Darkside Compendium of Palpatine when he took the Throne. Lumiya-with little recourse- responded by disappearing into the shadows for nearly 30 years.
The plan succeeded beyond their wildest dreams-Palpatine died, the Imperial High Command of the new Grand Admirals on Byss perished with all but 18 of the Royal Guard. However, there were significant costs as well. Byss had been destroyed with nearly all the Shadow hand fleet, the Galaxy Gun and the Eclipse II, virtually annihilating the ability of the central Empire to control the Warlords, who again went rogue and refused to acknowledge Jax as Emperor, the Emperor's physician did not perish but confessed to the New Republic his role and who bribed him in the conspiracy, and one of the Royal Guard heard this and spread the message to his fellows on Yinchorr. Further, the Compendium and all palpatines Sith secrets were now forever beyond Jax's grasp, further limiting his own personal power. Since their actions would have been high treason and undermined Jax and the Council's already tenuous rule over the parts of the centralized Empire that acknowledged them, Jax had Wessel send in his stormtroopers en masse via the secret passages Jax knew in the academy to kill them. While at tremendous cost of the near annihilation of the attacking Stormtroopers all but one of the Royal Guard were slain and Wessel felt this man could be labelled a traitor and discounted. Jax went with th efirst part of the plan, citing Kanos not declaring for the 'new' Emperor as treason, but refusing to ignore Kanos and personally deciding to hunt him down with his two Star Destroyers-Steadfast and the Emperor's Revenge. Jax attempted to cultivate a Vader like appearance wearing his Sovereign Protector armor and cloak while commanding from a Star Destroyer. He won great respect from the Imperial Army for this and subsequently surrounded himself with Army advisors to further garner support, however the Warlords still turned a deaf ear to his commands.
Jax now threw himself into capturing Kanos as he felt that the smallest detail could destroy him, much as it had destroyed his father and allowed him to destroy Palpatine. Jax became obsessed with Kanos and pursued him relentlessly, this action made him popular with the Ruling Council too as it kept him from meddling in their affairs, he ruled, but really as more of a figurehead than a functioning part of the government body. Jax was a man of action who held his personal skill unmatched and felt with his minimal force training to be close to Vader in power-though a Padawan might have been more accurate. Jax gradually began to slip at this point, he was a masterful planner and patient, but his ability as a military commander overall was hampered by his obsession with chasing Kanos. As a result he did not command front line battles and left that to his Generals, most of whom were sycophants with little ability and the Crimson Empire failed to expand or solidify it's holdings as a result. Jax's attention to the details, his obsession with holding his power was beginning to blind him to the fact that he held very little real power and it was fast slipping away-the cracks were already forming. Jax was willing to sacrifice anyone around him to secure his own power and it would come back to haunt him.
However Cronal supplied Jax with Blackhole Stormtroopers which Jax personally trained as his version of the Imperial Guard and won their full loyalty to himself over Cronal, betraying the Dark Jedi after taking resources from him. In this we see Jax trying to replicate Palpatine and Vader before him through imitation again, but his results were far less successful, the Blackhole Stormtroopers even with his training were no equal of the Royal Guard, Wessel was no Piett/Veers, Blim was no Mara Jade and he was no Vader/Palpatine and the council made up of back stabbers, courtiers and sycophants were no fit rulers. As such Jax had torn down the central pillars of the Empire and replaced them with rotting bracers. He proved how little he actually cared for his troops and allies in the final days of the Kanos pursuit, he sacrificed countless Stormtroopers, resources and ships to find one man, stripping the front of much needed material. He split his forces above Phaeda to pursue Kanos costing him the Steadfast and planet when the New Republic sent in reinforcements, then rather than warn Wessel of the vision he had of the bomb droid Wessel was pulling into the Emperor's Revenge Jax merely abandoned him to his fate, losing an ally, an ISD and all lives aboard just to pursue Kanos-the only threat he now saw to his power. The 'Tiny Detail' had now become his sole obsession. Jax landed and sent his Blackhole troopers into the ruins of Yinchorr not to succeed but merely buy time for Blim to get into a sniper position while he engaged Kanos. All this achieved was the deaths of Jax's personal guard with no effect as Kanos had no intention of fleeing. Jax encountered kanos and dueled him, hoping to humble Kanos with how powerful he had become, to prove his power was his own and even to win kanos to his side. Jax believed that ultimately everyone had a price, that personal ambition was greater than any loyalty, after all it was how he had become Emperor, so Kanos bewildered him when he not only refused but declared ultimate loyalty to the dead Emperor. In spite of his force training Jax had not been on the front lines in years unlike Kanos who had fought for his life every day for the past year and it showed, Kanos gained the upper hand, wounding Jax twice in the duel, bringing the Usurper Emperor to his knees and Mirith Sinn along with Sadeet killed Blim and destroying Jax's shuttle off the world. Jax didn't even hesitate, he used kanos focusing on their deaths as his opening to regain the upper hand, once again demonstrating how little he cared for anyone outside himself. Mistaking the feelings he sensed from Sinn to be mirrored in Kanos, Jax felt that the trios goals were one and the same and that he could use the two newcomers as leverage against Kanos. Mirith Sinn and Sadeet quickly found out that even injured and alone Jax was dangerous as he disarmed Sinn and used the Force to take Sadeet's blaster rifle. He dropped his guard to do so in aiming at Sinn and Sadeet thinking Kanos would focus on saving them rather than attacking him since he believed Sinn would make Kanos try and take him alive. It was Jax's last in a long line of mistakes. The man obsessed with little details and his own personal power through the manipulation of others, had failed to accurately read the detail that just because Sinn cared for Kanos-Kanos cared for her over his cause(at least at this point in time) Instead of shielding Sinn, Kanos disarmed Jax and impaled him through the chest with his vibroblade.
His life's blood pouring out of him, stunned that this could happen to him, Jax fell to his knees, his final words a weak plea for understanding, "But...your friends...wanted me...alive..." The cold answer he received was the last thing he ever heard, "They are not my friends. Carnor Jax, for your part in the assassination of Emperor Palpatine and the murder of your fellow Royal Guardsmen, I condemn you to death!" The man who had believed in nothing but his own abilities, used and manipulated all those around him for his own goals and who had scuffed at the ideas of loyalty and justice, was now dying alone, unaided and unmourned on a deserted planet, his executioner administering justice for Jax's many betrayals...out of loyalty to the man who had dictated Jax's life's actions. Jax bled out before the final blow was landed and he was left on the squall to rot alone and forgotten, in the very place his ambitions had been born. Within the year the council he had founded would tear itself apart with infighting, all would die or end their lives in New Republic custody, Quest would be ousted by the Council and live his life in pverty and fear on Nar Shaddaa until hunted down by a fanatical devotee to Emperor Palpatine, much in the same way Jax had died-alone and forgotten in the dust. All Jax had built collapsed and died either with him or shortly after their ambitions, like his reduced to dust and nothingness.
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If Mr.Puerto reads this then this is why Shadow Hand and the Dark Empire was different then Operation: Cinder ands it is written better.
I will also say the Jax is one of the most cunning and intelligent Star Wars characters i have scene with a Intelligence on par with Thrawn.
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I always knew about Jax and Kanos, but didn't really know anything about them. Thank you Xizer for writing about Carnor, because otherwise, I would still know nothing about Crimson Empire going into 2.2
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If Mr.Puerto reads this then this is why Shadow Hand and the Dark Empire was different then Operation: Cinder ands it is written better.
I will also say the Jax is one of the most cunning and intelligent Star Wars characters i have scene with a Intelligence on par with Thrawn.
I find that the Post Endor time is handled far better in the EU than the DisCan, the Empire is full of self serving individuals, it was BUILT on the Dark Side of Ambition, Greed and Power, Operation Cinder simply wouldn't have worked in an actual Empire since it was predicated on the Empire following self destructive orders consciously instead of tearing each other apart in war for control.
Jax is very cunning, but in terms of said cunning I would put him closer to Grodin Tierce's clone that orchestrated the false Thrawn crisis. A tactically brilliant stormtrooper rather than a strategically brilliant leader. Jax was too concerned with his own personal agenda and power that he was more of a manipulator than a leader.
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I always knew about Jax and Kanos, but didn't really know anything about them. Thank you Xizer for writing about Carnor, because otherwise, I would still know nothing about Crimson Empire going into 2.2
I highly recommend the Crimson Empire comics, they are some of the very best comics the EU has to offer in art, story and action. You can read them online here:
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Star-Wars-Crimson-Empire
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Star-Wars-Crimson-Empire-II-Council-of-Blood
http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Star-Wars-Crimson-Empire-III-Empire-Lost
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ohhhh yeaah.
Xizer's character studies are back.
*sits back and enjoys with a cup of tee
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ohhhh yeaah.
Xizer's character studies are back.
*sits back and enjoys with a cup of tee
Yes lol better late than never. I hope to have a few more up by this weekend, I owe the forums one for Bel Iblis and Pellaeon each as I recall.
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like... FINALLY!
very much enjoyed it this, thank you
who's next on the list?
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Great read as always !
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like... FINALLY!
very much enjoyed it this, thank you
who's next on the list?
Bel Iblis, then Gilad Pellaeon
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Bel Iblis, then Gilad Pellaeon
no offense to any rebels but lets choose the good guy here
DO Peallaeon
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no offense to any rebels but lets choose the good guy here
DO Peallaeon
Good is a point of view...
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This is really, really, good. Thanks for the history lesson.
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Very informative, Xizer. I really enjoy these; thanks for posting them!
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Very informative, Xizer. I really enjoy these; thanks for posting them!
Thanks, I enjoy doing them
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Awesome read, do you have an index of these somewhere?
I find that the Post Endor time is handled far better in the EU than the DisCan, the Empire is full of self serving individuals, it was BUILT on the Dark Side of Ambition, Greed and Power, Operation Cinder simply wouldn't have worked in an actual Empire since it was predicated on the Empire following self destructive orders consciously instead of tearing each other apart in war for control.
I assumed Palpatine took the time to brainwash or handpick the officers who would be doing the Operation.
But yes, I liked Legends post-Yavin more. Especially the annoyance that is the First Order - the only reason my GF wasn't completely confused by the First Order was because I explained the background to her; they are not explained at all by the movies!)
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I find that the Post Endor time is handled far better in the EU than the DisCan, the Empire is full of self serving individuals, it was BUILT on the Dark Side of Ambition, Greed and Power, Operation Cinder simply wouldn't have worked in an actual Empire since it was predicated on the Empire following self destructive orders consciously instead of tearing each other apart in war for control.
Individuals in the Discan empire fit your desciption. If youv'e read the Aftermath trilogy, there are many "Warlords" mentioned like, Grand General Loring or "Grand" Moff Pandion. Also, Operation Cinder was done by palps handpicked individuals, like Admiral Versio, that were completely loyal to the Imperial cause. The same can be said for Gallius Rax who sealed the empires fate by having the majority of it destroyed and laying groundwork for the First Order. (Btw i totally recomend reading the Aftermath trilogy.)
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Individuals in the Discan empire fit your desciption. If youv'e read the Aftermath trilogy, there are many "Warlords" mentioned like, Grand General Loring or "Grand" Moff Pandion. Also, Operation Cinder was done by palps handpicked individuals, like Admiral Versio, that were completely loyal to the Imperial cause. The same can be said for Gallius Rax who sealed the empires fate by having the majority of it destroyed and laying groundwork for the First Order. (Btw i totally recomend reading the Aftermath trilogy.)
Not really. Their are no confrimed Imperial Warlords that are mention and all the remenants were united according to other sources. Keep in mind Aftermath has been retconned a bit. Also no Admiral Versio was not that loyal to the Imperial cause, in fact his motivation does not makes sense. i read Inferno Squadron and BF2 Admiral Veriso is wayyyy different from Book Admiral Veriso. His loyalties are to his family aka Iden and dispite being divorce he was there for his wife gigving her the truth of Iden's "defection". Also the guy who led the attack on Naboo had no choice or he faced death.
I would avoid Aftermath since its a terrible trilogy and creates a unrealistic scenario. The Empire for one is massive and the NR fleet was a joke. You cant tell me that the NR was able to beat the best of the Empire still alive, take over the galaxy, and do it all within a year. I am sorry but that's like claiming that you could destroy a star destroyer with a pebble. The Empire should have at least lasted another 5-8 years even with sabotage within the Empire.
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Not really. Their are no confrimed Imperial Warlords that are mention and all the remenants were united according to other sources. Keep in mind Aftermath has been retconned a bit. Also no Admiral Versio was not that loyal to the Imperial cause, in fact his motivation does not makes sense. i read Inferno Squadron and BF2 Admiral Veriso is wayyyy different from Book Admiral Veriso. His loyalties are to his family aka Iden and dispite being divorce he was there for his wife gigving her the truth of Iden's "defection". Also the guy who led the attack on Naboo had no choice or he faced death.
I would avoid Aftermath since its a terrible trilogy and creates a unrealistic scenario. The Empire for one is massive and the NR fleet was a joke. You cant tell me that the NR was able to beat the best of the Empire still alive, take over the galaxy, and do it all within a year. I am sorry but that's like claiming that you could destroy a star destroyer with a pebble. The Empire should have at least lasted another 5-8 years even with sabotage within the Empire.
To answer your points:
-I was using warlord as a general term to describe those who wished to break off.
-Where have you seen other sources saying that the empire is FULLY united? Its never mentioned in BF2, but its never stated as well.
-Your facts and opinions sound great to me about Admiral Versio, but his character motivation isn't that bad. I see it as the he's an A+ empire supporter, but ultimently loves his family and will do what he can do best through his Imperial eyes.
-its hard to debunk if the empire shouldve lasted longer. While its true that the empire is much more massive than the NR, i think without palpatine, no leader could truly control the greed, hate, (blah blah dark side). The empire just kind of collapsed on itself since 99% of its people were incapaple of leading, and the 1% would never be excepted by the power hungry. Althougth the empire was huge, it was made of many that were weak. Still, maybe the war couldv'e lasted a year or two longer, but the sabotage efforts by palps kind of ruined their chances.
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The empire just kind of collapsed on itself
Seems mostly reasonable. Not unlike what has happened in our galaxy countless times.
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To answer your points:
-I was using warlord as a general term to describe those who wished to break off.
-Where have you seen other sources saying that the empire is FULLY united? Its never mentioned in BF2, but its never stated as well.
-Your facts and opinions sound great to me about Admiral Versio, but his character motivation isn't that bad. I see it as the he's an A+ empire supporter, but ultimently loves his family and will do what he can do best through his Imperial eyes.
-its hard to debunk if the empire shouldve lasted longer. While its true that the empire is much more massive than the NR, i think without palpatine, no leader could truly control the greed, hate, (blah blah dark side). The empire just kind of collapsed on itself since 99% of its people were incapaple of leading, and the 1% would never be excepted by the power hungry. Althougth the empire was huge, it was made of many that were weak. Still, maybe the war couldv'e lasted a year or two longer, but the sabotage efforts by palps kind of ruined their chances.
Here's the issue with that, the new timeline doesn't understand how this would affect things at all. The Empire can't coordinate it's own self destruction the way it's done in Aftermath for the simple reason stated by Tarkin in ANH-'The REGIONAL Governors will now have complete control of their systems. These individuals would have fleets, forces and resources at their disposal. The more that go rogue as Warlords the longer an internecine conflict would exist- because even if the centralized Empire self destructs itself, the regional Warlords are autonomous-nations within a nation so to speak. Also Empires don't 'just dissolve' even here on Earth on an infinitely smaller scale than the Galactic Empire, it usually takes at the soonest decades of fighting, look at Japan's Sengoku Period, or ANY of China's history, or the Roman Empire, the Persian, Alexander the Great's the Golden Horde, the Holy Roman Empire etc. To destroy an Empire via conquest you have to seize it's territory, kill, convert or capture it's leadership and almost always seize it's recognized capital. Empires and Dictatorships that fall always lose vast swaths of their territory, are decisively crushed militarily(to the point they HAVE no military) and their ruling leaders caught and killed. Simply killing the leadership of an Empire while leaving the territory(and economy) of it intact would not destroy it, it would hurt it, but leaders can be replaced and if centralized leadership can't then you get lots of tiny Empires(See China's Warlord period of 1904-1945)
You simply could not do to an entity the size and scale of the Galactic Empire in a year what Aftermath tries to set up. Even if Rax's fanatical group had succeeded in driving the main Empire into self destruction on Palp's cult instructions, the vast majority of the Warlords and governors would have ignored him or gone even further in seceding from the Empire proper to evade his control. He wouldn't have had the forces to bring them all to heel to herd them to destruction and he can't manipulate people not following his orders.
This is further a problem in the new timeline as the Disney version of the Empire doesn't discriminate against Aliens and women as the old EU one did, eliminating some of the main issues that helped destabilize the Empire in the Mid and Outer Rims in the old EU. Finally the fact that both sides did not attack each other after Jakku since the New Republic did not push in like in the old EU makes this make even LESS sense as that leaves the Empire and it's Warlords in possession of nearly all the economic and industrial systems ensuring a strong economic core.
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Seems mostly reasonable. Not unlike what has happened in our galaxy countless times.
Not within a years time frame. And certainly not while holding most of their territory, economy and infrastructure. The Empire could well have and should have lasted at least a decade after the Emperor's death for a believable sequence of events. Aftermath pretty much super fast forwards that for no other reason that getting it out of the way.
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This is further a problem in the new timeline as the Disney version of the Empire doesn't discriminate against Aliens and women as the old EU one did, eliminating some of the main issues that helped destabilize the Empire in the Mid and Outer Rims in the old EU. Finally the fact that both sides did not attack each other after Jakku since the New Republic did not push in like in the old EU makes this make even LESS sense as that leaves the Empire and it's Warlords in possession of nearly all the economic and industrial systems ensuring a strong economic core.
The Empire still does discriminate against Aliens. In the Marvel Star wars comic the Empire is shown to enslave non-humans and even the Thrawn book touches on this. If I was honest it does not make sense for the EU Empire to discriminate against women. In fact it makes more sense for them just to be a Human High Society. Even then you still can say that most women who join the Empire either defect(Iden Veriso and Sabine Wren) or become top members(Governor Pryce, and Rae Salone). This is because most women dont serve in the military because of things like raising children(unless your mandolarians)
Also the reason they surrender was because the Rebel force Mas Amidda(the new imperial leader) at gunpoint to surrender. The NR then order all Imperial weapons be rounded up and destroy. The IR was allow to exist but the NR gave it no protection or a way protecting itself(which led to pirates and rebels to rape, pillage, and attack IR Planets). The NR then demilitarize which outraged people saying that Pirates, crime familes, and rogue states were more of a threat. It was insane.
But also i agree that the Empire still should have been able to hold. Keep in mind the fleet at Endor was the NR fleet at the time. Also it does not make sense for Imperials to follow Operation: Cinder, what also doesnt make sense is why the Emperor would make such a plan. I know he is a asshole, but he was planning to live forever according to Episode 3 and the Darth Vader comics. So i cant find a reason Palps would believe he could be beaten, that's why he lost Endor he was just soo fucking cocky.
Further more lets look at the galaxy at this point.
1. The Empire still controls 90% of the known Galaxy
2. The Rebellion is still to weak.
3. Luke was off doing his own shit
4. Their are no mention Imperial Warlords.
5. The Remnants of the Empire were still working together.
6. Many worlds were not sympathetic to the rebellion.
7. Rax was just one guy.
given that its physically impossible for the Empire to have lost within a year.
Also what was the relative time in BF2? Did Iden defect within days of the Endor or months? Also why did the sentinels instantly activate and one was already on Garrick Veriso's flagship during Endor? Also how many worlds were targeted and why did the NR who received intel about these attacks wait for them to already damage the planet before interfering? Why did the Empire just no reltalitae and send fleets to attack Mon Cal, and Chandrilla? Also why is it that no one but a handful of people questioned Operation: Cinder? Most people who joined the Empire were not really loyal to the Emperor and most were ethical so why Operation: Cinder? Also why did the NR pardon Iden Versio and Del Meeko from war crimes while excuting loyal level officers for war crimes? Also why did the NR desmilitarize?
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The Empire still does discriminate against Aliens. In the Marvel Star wars comic the Empire is shown to enslave non-humans and even the Thrawn book touches on this. If I was honest it does not make sense for the EU Empire to discriminate against women. In fact it makes more sense for them just to be a Human High Society. Even then you still can say that most women who join the Empire either defect(Iden Veriso and Sabine Wren) or become top members(Governor Pryce, and Rae Salone). This is because most women dont serve in the military because of things like raising children(unless your mandolarians)
Also the reason they surrender was because the Rebel force Mas Amidda(the new imperial leader) at gunpoint to surrender. The NR then order all Imperial weapons be rounded up and destroy. The IR was allow to exist but the NR gave it no protection or a way protecting itself(which led to pirates and rebels to rape, pillage, and attack IR Planets). The NR then demilitarize which outraged people saying that Pirates, crime familes, and rogue states were more of a threat. It was insane.
But also i agree that the Empire still should have been able to hold. Keep in mind the fleet at Endor was the NR fleet at the time. Also it does not make sense for Imperials to follow Operation: Cinder, what also doesnt make sense is why the Emperor would make such a plan. I know he is a asshole, but he was planning to live forever according to Episode 3 and the Darth Vader comics. So i cant find a reason Palps would believe he could be beaten, that's why he lost Endor he was just soo fucking cocky.
Further more lets look at the galaxy at this point.
1. The Empire still controls 90% of the known Galaxy
2. The Rebellion is still to weak.
3. Luke was off doing his own shit
4. Their are no mention Imperial Warlords.
5. The Remnants of the Empire were still working together.
6. Many worlds were not sympathetic to the rebellion.
7. Rax was just one guy.
given that its physically impossible for the Empire to have lost within a year.
Also what was the relative time in BF2? Did Iden defect within days of the Endor or months? Also why did the sentinels instantly activate and one was already on Garrick Veriso's flagship during Endor? Also how many worlds were targeted and why did the NR who received intel about these attacks wait for them to already damage the planet before interfering? Why did the Empire just no reltalitae and send fleets to attack Mon Cal, and Chandrilla? Also why is it that no one but a handful of people questioned Operation: Cinder? Most people who joined the Empire were not really loyal to the Emperor and most were ethical so why Operation: Cinder? Also why did the NR pardon Iden Versio and Del Meeko from war crimes while excuting loyal level officers for war crimes? Also why did the NR desmilitarize?
It's nowhere near the scale of the old EU with MASS slavery, genocides, hunting them for sport and the like. Remember that most societies discriminate against women throughout history so it's not far fetched that a High HuMAN Culture would too.
Again forcing the centralized Empire to surrender by holding Mas Amedda hostage(while most of the Empire's war machine and territory is intact would not result in the Empire surrendering, it would result in Mas Amedda being replaced or usurped. This would also further empower the Warlords who would be the only well armed groups left as many would likely flock to their banners.
I agree with you that few if any Imperials would follow Operation Cinder, however such a plan is EXACTLY like the Emperor. Palpatine was a completely self centered psychopath. If he couldn't have it, no one could. Much as Hitler ordered the systematic annihilation of the German industry, food centers and anything in 1945, Palpatine was of similar mind. In cut content in RotJ he gives Moff Jerrjerrod an order to fire on Endor if the shield is destroyed killing all his men there along with the very few rebels out of nothing but pure spite. Even in the EU he's just as deranged, HE directly helped fuel the Imperial Mutiny, he routinely ruined entire worlds for little to no reason. He was a PLAGUE that NEEDED to be killed, even as an Imperial I firmly believe that. Again it's not that Palpatine would MAKE such a plan, it's that ANYONE would follow through with it.
Further more lets look at the galaxy at this point.
1. The Empire still controls 90% of the known Galaxy/ Yup(which they continue to hold as the NR never pushes in)
2. The Rebellion is still to weak.(Pathetically so considering they demilitarize within a year of Endor)
3. Luke was off doing his own shit(Sigh...yeah)
4. Their are no mention Imperial Warlords.(they are hinted at, but nothing on the scale of the EU)
5. The Remnants of the Empire were still working together.(Cooperating at least minimally)
6. Many worlds were not sympathetic to the rebellion.(Again the Rebels in this timeline are far less noble and the Empire less viciously oppressive)
7. Rax was just one guy.(Exactly and even if he was married to the idea of self genocide, convincing the vast majority of the Imperial Leadership to go along would be laughable)
given that its physically impossible for the Empire to have lost within a year.(this I whole heartedly agree with)
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I might need to pick Crimson Empire again and actually finish it
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Try the audiobook, its pretty great.
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I might need to pick Crimson Empire again and actually finish it
I highly recommend it
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I wish the Empire was more like the Space Marines in 40k where they are Nazis, but are a required evil in a world like the 40k world.
Also alot of wired choices in the new canon. Like how Star Wars, Star Trek, Lost, Cloverfield, Frigit, and Super 8 are all in the same muilverse reality shit.
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The Carnor Jax era was always one that will be known but still the collapse was inevitable.
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The Carnor Jax era was always one that will be known but still the collapse was inevitable.
The thing is, if R2D2 and Lando hadn't of hacked the Eclipse II's overly automated navigation systems-sending it on it's fateful collision course with the Galaxy gun destroying both and Byss in the process, it would have probably orbitally bombarded Onderon after the Emperor's final death-likely killing Luke, Han, Leia and the few Jedi in the galaxy as well as the Physician and Royal Guard there.
This would have left Byss, the Eclipse II, the Shadow Hand Fleet and the Galaxy Gun all in the Imperial Ruling Council's hands by default-I.E. Jax's hands. With the power to back up his claim to the Throne the Warlords likely remain at least nominally loyal, the New Republic at this point is on the verge of collapse having lost nearly all it's territory and most of it's military to Thrawn and then palpatine's offensives. In this scenario there is no witness to jax's treachery, so Kanos and the remaining Royal Guard have no reason to declare vendettas against Jax, some might even have SERVED him and with access to Palpatine's Dark Side Compendium Jax could well have become a mini Vader(since he died fairly early in his Force training and Lumiya was not fully trained herself we'll never know just how strong he could have become in the Force.)
In this scenario the Galaxy likely does go back to Imperial Rule under Jax.
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The thing is, if R2D2 and Lando hadn't of hacked the Eclipse II's overly automated navigation systems-sending it on it's fateful collision course with the Galaxy gun destroying both and Byss in the process, it would have probably orbitally bombarded Onderon after the Emperor's final death-likely killing Luke, Han, Leia and the few Jedi in the galaxy as well as the Physician and Royal Guard there.
This would have left Byss, the Eclipse II, the Shadow Hand Fleet and the Galaxy Gun all in the Imperial Ruling Council's hands by default-I.E. Jax's hands. With the power to back up his claim to the Throne the Warlords likely remain at least nominally loyal, the New Republic at this point is on the verge of collapse having lost nearly all it's territory and most of it's military to Thrawn and then palpatine's offensives. In this scenario there is no witness to jax's treachery, so Kanos and the remaining Royal Guard have no reason to declare vendettas against Jax, some might even have SERVED him and with access to Palpatine's Dark Side Compendium Jax could well have become a mini Vader(since he died fairly early in his Force training and Lumiya was not fully trained herself we'll never know just how strong he could have become in the Force.)
In this scenario the Galaxy likely does go back to Imperial Rule under Jax.
I think Jax would honestly be assassinated later by someone like Jerec, some random dark jedi, or a group of cunning imperials.
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I think Jax would honestly be assassinated later by someone like Jerec, some random dark jedi, or a group of cunning imperials.
Well it's likely though at this point every Dark Jedi of any power or prestige was either supporting Jax, in hiding with no power base or dead.
By this time Jerec had been dead for five years, Sedriss and all the Dark Side Elite were dead save one(that the NR captured) so Dark Side wise that really just leaves Lumiya without her power base..
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Well it's likely though at this point every Dark Jedi of any power or prestige was either supporting Jax, in hiding with no power base or dead.
By this time Jerec had been dead for five years, Sedriss and all the Dark Side Elite were dead save one(that the NR captured) so Dark Side wise that really just leaves Lumiya without her power base..
Well the other thing is Thrawn's clone, the vong, or just some random Imperial commanders would take him out.
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Well the other thing is Thrawn's clone, the vong, or just some random Imperial commanders would take him out.
True, but with Thrawn's clone not due for another 6 years, the Vong not due for another almost 10 that pretty much leaves Black Sun's remnants, the back biting of the Imperial Ruling Council and Nom Anor's manipulations of the Council. I'm not saying he would be utterly triumphant or would have lasted, but he had a shot if they had still kept Byss and it's resources.
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Do you think that's one of the scenarios you'll explore in the submod you're working on?
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Do you think that's one of the scenarios you'll explore in the submod you're working on?
It could be, only thing is it would have to be different from Shadow Hand in that the Warlords go rogue but Jax has the resources of Byss.
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I wish the Empire was more like the Space Marines in 40k where they are Nazis, but are a required evil in a world like the 40k world.
Wasn't that how Zahn tried to portray Era 5 Empire, with planets considering re-joining for the centralization and protection?
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Wasn't that how Zahn tried to portray Era 5 Empire, with planets considering re-joining for the centralization and protection?
Yes since for about five years the NR tended to let member worlds handle their own issues without interference. This made the central government look weak and promoted lots of brushfire conflicts. Plus after the Imperial Mutiny and devastation of Shadow Hand much of the galaxy stayed neutral and just longed for a return to stability.
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After read about Jax i think he shouldn't had let Byss get destroyed.
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After read about Jax i think he shouldn't had let Byss get destroyed.
He didn't plan on that part, I don't think anyone could have foreseen that sequence of events happening like it did...and also giving R2D2 technically the highest kill count of the heroes.
Jax just planned the Emperor dying while the power structure remained intact with him and the council in control.
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Finished Crimson Empire today. In a kinda twisted way, he's a really tragic character.
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Finished Crimson Empire today. In a kinda twisted way, he's a really tragic character.
To a degree, though he is also a sociopath and without any empathy or concern for those who serve him whatsoever.