Thrawn's Revenge

Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Illidan Stormrage on January 22, 2018, 10:38:34 PM

Title: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 22, 2018, 10:38:34 PM
Ever since the purchase of both Lucas film and Star Wars by Disney we have had controversy after controversy. i fear that this is a sign of some trouble on the way for both Star Wars and the Star Wars fanbase. I am here to talk about how in the name Lothal did this happen, who is causing this problem, and why this is going to get worse over time.

How this happen?: Lets go back to before the Purchase of Star Wars by about 2-6 years. Star Wars was suffering from two things a series of poor Star Wars games (Exceptions: Lego Star Wars, and the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games) and that most of the Star Wars projects did not make money. Say what you want about Clone Wars, but George Lucas lost money on it not because it was bad, but because he wanted a good Star Wars TV show to fix the mess of the Prequels. The prequels/clone wars at this point were actually very popular with the clone wars TV show bringing us new and interesting stories. Now lets jump to the time of the deal and the results of the deal. George was trying to very careful with this deal since he did not want his team fired and out of jobs which is why Dave Foloni and most of the people stayed on. However what happened actually may have been worse. Disney locked in star wars and started putting in new people into positions above other workers. This resulted in the story group who erased the EU from canon which cause a shit storm for a bit. Disney also shut down LucasArts which sucks, they also only allowed Dark Horse to write one more Star Wars Comic (which was the Darth Maul Son of Dathomir and canon and legend Story), and the cancelation of the Clone Wars before it could properly end.  They locked down the rights to make comics only to Marvel which is not bad but no good either since it limits who can write star wars. They then installed Kathleen Kennedy who seems to have no regard for fans and seems to do nothing but piss them off. She says all these stupid remarks, and makes bad decisions. Talking lore now Chuck Windick's book Aftermath destroy lore and create a problem that cant be fixed which forces all stories in post Episode 6 to follow his stupid idea he laid down. We also had the TFA which was okay at first before people realized it was basically a carbon copy of ANH, which resulted in anger. They also got one of the worse directors (JJ Abrams) to do that movie and now he is doing 9. Rian Johson is not a bad director and I will say TLJ suffers from issues that are too political to get into, and stupid. I thought TLJ was a step in the right direction but the problem is Throies and expectations ruined it for alot of people. On top of that the Han Solo movie is apparently in chaos with little to no explanation of WTF is going on. Rogue One was pretty good but hey some people disagree. Then we get to the new Star Wars games which have been so terrible that they make the original SWBF games more enjoyable. They sadly signed EA who have been exploiting Star Wars Fans with no regard for what they want unless it affects their money

Who is responsible?: Kathleen Kennedy and the people she put in. She has no respect towards the hardcore Star Wars Fans and acts like she is so important. She cares less about these movies and this franchise and more about making herself and her people the spotlight which is why either Disney should A: Terminate her contract or B: Listen to Star Wars Fans. I also want to take a shot at Disney for not trying to terminate EA's contract for its disrespect towards the Star Wars Brand.

Why this is a sign of trouble ahead?:
So for background Information the Pareto Principle or the 80/20 rule is a rule used in business. The general idea is that 80% of profits come from 20% of customers(in this senario its Hardcore Star Wars Fans.) the idea is that if more and more resentment comes from the hardcore Star wars fans(the 20%) toward the way Star Wars has been treated then Disney could lose up 40-80% of their profits. What this means is that all us hardcore Star Wars fans who are pissed at how star wars is being treated acutally are what disney should be afraid of and since money is the only language they speak they would have to respond.

So what is my prediction for the future?
The Han Solo movie- will bomb and be a failure for disney
The Next Star Wars Game- A failure
Episode 9- It will Flop which will result in serious problems for disney

to put it simply unless Disney and the Lucasfilm storygroup can rectify this problem soon then they are at risk of huge falls in profits


Thank you for you time and I am sorry if this is ranty but i am just getting pissed more and more and like a bubble i popped

Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 22, 2018, 10:58:28 PM
I think you're coming at this from the perspective of a hardcore Star Wars geek, when the reality is that the vast majority of fans aren't anywhere close to our level of geekery here: they watch the movies, maybe a bit of the shows, and on rare occasions they'll read one or two of the books, but those expectations that keep ruining things only really exist in the minds of the hardcore fans rather than in those of the far broader "normal" fanbase and viewing audiences.  Many people seeing these movies haven't even seen the previous Star Wars films and are coming in completely fresh.

So for the most part the new movies have been very well-received by both critics and audiences at large, and have made plenty of money - TLJ was the top-grossing US film of 2017, Rogue 1 was top grossing in 2016, TFA again in 2015.

Look at it this way: the JJ Star Trek reboots also were very controversial among the hardcore fans.  But they were popular overall with audiences and critics, and they made money (less so Beyond, which is a shame as I think it the best of the bunch).  They also introduced new people to the franchise who weren't previously into it, and it is solely because of their success that a new Star Trek TV show is running; it's receiving its share of controversy as well from hardcore fans, but literally every Star Trek since TOS had to deal with fans saying that it wasn't "true Star Trek" when it first came out, and Discovery's acceptance among even that group is growing while the show continues to be well-received by critics and less hardcore audiences and has been approved for another season. (And in my opinion DSC's been doing nothing but getting better since it started - the last few episodes have been fantastic.)

Reading Star Wars discussions online may well give the impression that there is a vast well of disappointment regarding these movies, but the truth is that the internet magnifies the loudest voices, and it's the disappointed that are crying the loudest.  A poll on this forum or the Star Wars subreddit or whatever Star Wars forum you can name is going to be heavily weighted by those voices, because they are the ones who have a vested notion in their minds of what Star Wars is.  But the vast majority of people who are likely to go see a Star Wars movie?  They don't even log on to such forums.  I don't think Disney's going to start regretting this purchase anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 22, 2018, 11:17:20 PM
Reading Star Wars discussions online may well give the impression that there is a vast well of disappointment regarding these movies, but the truth is that the internet magnifies the loudest voices, and it's the disappointed that are crying the loudest.  A poll on this forum or the Star Wars subreddit or whatever Star Wars forum you can name is going to be heavily weighted by those voices, because they are the ones who have a vested notion in their minds of what Star Wars is.  But the vast majority of people who are likely to go see a Star Wars movie?  They don't even log on to such forums.  I don't think Disney's going to start regretting this purchase anytime soon.
Except they do they are the largest Star Wars Fans who see the movies multiple times, buy alot merchandise, and generate the most profit.
So for background Information the Pareto Principle or the 80/20 rule is a rule used in business. The general idea is that 80% of profits come from 20% of customers(in this senario its Hardcore Star Wars Fans.) the idea is that if more and more resentment comes from the hardcore Star wars fans(the 20%) toward the way Star Wars has been treated then Disney could lose up 40-80% of their profits. What this means is that all us hardcore Star Wars fans who are pissed at how star wars is being treated acutally are what Disney should be afraid of and since money is the only language they speak they would have to respond.
They would suffer without us, because we are the star wars loyal fanbase and if they lose us they lose alot of money.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 22, 2018, 11:25:30 PM
yeah, we make up what .00005 percent of their audience they really don't need us. It would be silly to think otherwise.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 22, 2018, 11:32:27 PM
I have to agree with Puerto - you are vastly overestimating how much of a percentage of fans are among the hardcore.  And the hardcore aren't a unified group either - many have been happy with the new films.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 22, 2018, 11:33:04 PM
You be surprise how many hardcore Star Wars fans like us their are Mr.Pureto. Saying we dont matter is a lie, becuase we do. Are you saying that small groups cant make a difference? Yes we can. We are the 20% of star wars fans. The "Nerds" and we are what help push Star Wars along.

I cant understand why you are downplaying this dispite the fact i back this up with evidence in the form of the Pareto Prinicipal.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 22, 2018, 11:43:07 PM
The Pareto Principle is not a hard law, it is a general rule to which exceptions will exist.

You also have not in any way shown that the hardcore Star Wars fans make up that 20% - perhaps those who would generally answer yes to the question "Are you a Star Wars fan?" do, but as I mentioned the vast majority of people who say yes to that question do not count among the hardcore, and even then many of the hardcore have enjoyed the new movies.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Empeor Cooler on January 23, 2018, 01:19:36 AM
Even as a hardcore Star Wars fan, I still look at all the material at a story, overall quality value first over how star wars-y it is. All these dudes making videos about how Star Wars is dead are all over reacting, I have no problem if someone disliked TLJ, but to say that Star Wars is dead is actually very naive, history has shown that no matter how well the films are received, the franchise will continue to make money and produce other quality content outside of the movies. That hasn't been wrong in this Disney era either, there's plenty of good content going around in the comics and books, still waiting for a good new game, but I digress.
I'm gonna be cynical for second and talk about Celebration, cause I think Celebration is actually a really good example to showcase how conditioned Star Wars fans are. If Star Wars was really in trouble, we'd know, because no one would show up to Celebration. If people are so convinced that Star Wars is dead, they better be the ones protesting Celebration then, to show that, to them, TLJ ruined what they love. I don't think that'll ever happen, at least, not in a scale that is either impactful or representative of the majority of Star Wars fans.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 23, 2018, 10:14:57 AM
I agree that Dark Times are ahead, but in a different sense. Star Wars won't die quickly in a fire, but slowly and unnoticed with massive over saturation. Disney will crank out so many SW films that they will become trivial, like the Marvel films, maybe fun for a watch but you don't look back on most of them 10 years from now as anything special or worth rewatching. We'll see a gradual decline as the idea of 'New' SW wears off to the monotony of same old same old. Basically what ended up happening to the EU over time will happen with much faster pace to the Disney verse. They have 3 new trilogies planned for the next decade and a new spin off movie planned for each year. I feel that those of us that are firmly loyal to the old canon as it's what we grew up with and loved will face the fate of the Imperial Remnant, reduced more and more over time to a small sliver on the fringe while the DisCan will get mainstream publicity and saturation until it over bloats and people gradually become numb to it. Much like how the Super Hero market is a ticking time bomb until it inevitably bottoms out(like Westerns did) so too will SW go that way with the Disney helm.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 23, 2018, 12:17:18 PM
Star Wars has never been better and only once has been worse (prequels) overall star wars movies and content have always been the same average quality expect for 4 and 5 imo (excluding the prequels). Star Wars has always been average to good. Using a rule isnt really way to prove your evidence either. Even if you did bring up the small legends Star Wars communities on YouTube, forums, Reddit etc as evidence that would only be tens of thousands. Which is still a literal drop in the bucket for the Star Wars franchise, which has millions of people following and usually liking all the new content.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: GreyStar on January 23, 2018, 01:16:15 PM
The prequels are just as bad as the sequels if the current trend are anywhere to go.

TFA and AotC are the same amount of horrible. RotS and TLJ are on par. And I’m betting Episode 9 will be like Episode 1 with both having only one thing really making them worth watching.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Slornie on January 23, 2018, 01:20:13 PM
Ever since the purchase of both Lucas film and Star Wars by Disney we have had controversy after controversy. i fear that this is a sign of some trouble on the way for both Star Wars and the Star Wars fanbase. I am here to talk about how in the name Lothal did this happen, who is causing this problem, and
why this is going to get worse over time.
Honestly, it's all been a series of storms in teacups. There was a bit of upset when Disney sidelined the previous expanded works, there was frustration from some quarters at the direction taken in the new trilogy, and there's been a lot of frenzy over EA's Battlefront (which I've seen no evidence has actually resulted in any real harm to EA or Disney).  Despite that we're all still here, Star Wars as a franchise is still growing and attracting new fans, and it doesn't look like it's going to disappear any time soon!

How this happen?: Lets go back to before the Purchase of Star Wars by about 2-6 years. Star Wars was suffering from two things a series of poor Star Wars games (Exceptions: Lego Star Wars, and the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games) and that most of the Star Wars projects did not make money.
What? Since when has Star Wars lost money?  It's a massive multi-platform media and merchandise powerhouse, of which games probably make a relatively small contribution to the bottom line.

Disney locked in star wars and started putting in new people into positions above other workers. This resulted in the story group who erased the EU from canon which cause a shit storm for a bit. Disney also shut down LucasArts which sucks, they also only allowed Dark Horse to write one more Star Wars Comic, and the cancelation of the Clone Wars before it could properly end.  They locked down the rights to make comics only to Marvel which is not bad but no good either since it limits who can write star wars. ... On top of that the Han Solo movie is apparently in chaos with little to no explanation of WTF is going on.
Over-reaction, much?  Disney is a business, not a fan-serving charity!

* They made a strategic move to sideline the old EU to create narrative space for the new stories they want to make and sell (across all forms of media).
* They issued a new license for making comics to a well regarded comic publisher in place of a previous license to a different comic publisher - don't forget that Marvel started off the Star Wars comics in the first place before Lucasfilm re-issued the license to Dark Horse back in the 1990's.
* It's rather premature to judge the Han Solo movie seeing as we haven't even had a trailer for it yet.  Don't forget there were similar reports of trouble before Rogue One was released and that movie turned out OK.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 23, 2018, 02:29:14 PM
Also you spent time writing this rant about Lucasflim, but yet you used a planet from Rebels a Disney show
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 23, 2018, 04:05:51 PM
Also you spent time writing this rant about Lucasflim, but yet you used a planet from Rebels a Disney show
First off what does that have to do with anything? I liked rebels not because it was created by Disney, but because Dave Folini was in charge of it and he brought back alot of EU concepts and ideas which makes rebels a better show.

Honestly, it's all been a series of storms in teacups. There was a bit of upset when Disney sidelined the previous expanded works, there was frustration from some quarters at the direction taken in the new trilogy, and there's been a lot of frenzy over EA's Battlefront (which I've seen no evidence has actually resulted in any real harm to EA or Disney).  Despite that we're all still here, Star Wars as a franchise is still growing and attracting new fans, and it doesn't look like it's going to disappear any time soon!
What? Since when has Star Wars lost money?  It's a massive multi-platform media and merchandise powerhouse, of which games probably make a relatively small contribution to the bottom line.
Over-reaction, much?  Disney is a business, not a fan-serving charity!

* They made a strategic move to sideline the old EU to create narrative space for the new stories they want to make and sell (across all forms of media).
* They issued a new license for making comics to a well regarded comic publisher in place of a previous license to a different comic publisher - don't forget that Marvel started off the Star Wars comics in the first place before Lucasfilm re-issued the license to Dark Horse back in the 1990's.
* It's rather premature to judge the Han Solo movie seeing as we haven't even had a trailer for it yet.  Don't forget there were similar reports of trouble before Rogue One was released and that movie turned out OK.
Honestly, it's all been a series of storms in teacups. There was a bit of upset when Disney sidelined the previous expanded works, there was frustration from some quarters at the direction taken in the new trilogy, and there's been a lot of frenzy over EA's Battlefront (which I've seen no evidence has actually resulted in any real harm to EA or Disney).  Despite that we're all still here, Star Wars as a franchise is still growing and attracting new fans, and it doesn't K.
EA loss 3 billion dollars in stock value and were threaten into losing their star wars liense. Disney got bad PR for the issue and it has had a negaitve impact of BF2 sales.

What? Since when has Star Wars lost money?  It's a massive multi-platform media and merchandise powerhouse, of which games probably make a relatively small contribution to the bottom line.
You took this line out of context. If you clearly read on i tell you that George Lucas was losing money on the clone wars at the time and that some ideas for star wars projects were canceled or had problems.
How this happen?: Lets go back to before the Purchase of Star Wars by about 2-6 years. Star Wars was suffering from two things a series of poor Star Wars games (Exceptions: Lego Star Wars, and the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games) and that most of the Star Wars projects did not make money. Say what you want about Clone Wars, but George Lucas lost money on it not because it was bad, but because he wanted a good Star Wars TV show to fix the mess of the Prequels. The prequels/clone wars at this point were actually very popular with the clone wars TV show bringing us new and interesting stories. Now lets jump to the time of the deal and the results of the deal.
Over-reaction, much?  Disney is a business, not a fan-serving charity!
* They made a strategic move to sideline the old EU to create narrative space for the new stories they want to make and sell (across all forms of media).
* They issued a new license for making comics to a well regarded comic publisher in place of a previous license to a different comic publisher - don't forget that Marvel started off the Star Wars comics in the first place before Lucasfilm re-issued the license to Dark Horse back in the 1990's.
* It's rather premature to judge the Han Solo movie seeing as we haven't even had a trailer for it yet.  Don't forget there were similar reports of trouble before Rogue One was released and that movie turned out OK.
Fan-Serving charity? What? My point is not that they need to appeal to us because of fan serive, but because they are a BUSINESS. If the customer is not happy with a product and does not want it, then it is lost money. If coustomers complain about quality then companies risk people buying less of their products. Also:
1. While i agree that is somewhat true at the sametime their were things in the EU that layed the ground work for the prequels like the Thrawn Triology which establish coursant. Say what you want about the prequels but that is true. They had other options like IDK erasing the all things that were unnesary and keeping things like the Thrawn Triolgy in canon. they were plenty of ways to go about it and they chose a nuclear bomb style clean slate that pissed off people.
2. I know that, but still it shows disney is making a monoploy where they are fully incontrol of what is said and shown and Marvel is not the best at making comics IMO, but neither is Darkhorse.
3. The problems with Rogue One were different then the problems of the Han Solo movie. Rogue One went through a reshooting of the third act to be moe consitent and keep in mind we still had trailers. With Solo: A Star Wars Story we had Lord and Miller fired, the guy playing Han Solo needed a acting coach, they film had to be reshot not once, not twice, but three times, and now its suppose to come out in May and we still do not have a trailer.
Star Wars has never been better and only once has been worse (prequels) overall star wars movies and content have always been the same average quality expect for 4 and 5 imo (excluding the prequels). Star Wars has always been average to good. Using a rule isnt really way to prove your evidence either. Even if you did bring up the small legends Star Wars communities on YouTube, forums, Reddit etc as evidence that would only be tens of thousands. Which is still a literal drop in the bucket for the Star Wars franchise, which has millions of people following and usually liking all the new content.
You are almost never positive when it comes to star wars. I can understand if you believe that all things that came after the Orginials are bad, or that they are just bad in general. You do understand that nothing can ever be better then those three movies? I mean it just seems you always just say anything new is bad. Also no this is not just the legends community, but this is also people who were pissed at how the New movies took characters. Your assuming all star wars nerds come from legends and that is not entirely true. It also really shows when TLJ does poorly in China that people are sick of the direction of these new movies and they feel that something is not being done 


I will be honest the points brought up our good points, but again your assuming a small minority of people can not be a big influence which is not true.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 23, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
EA loss 3 billion dollars in stock value and were threaten into losing their star wars liense. Disney got bad PR for the issue and it has had a negaitve impact of BF2 sales.

3 billion is a drop in the bucket for EA.  Google "EA stock" and look at the 1-year graph, you'll see consistent upward growth overall with a drop from November that hit bottom at the beginning of December, but that had recovered completely by the end of December.  The BF2 controversy stung, but it was hardly crippling.

Quote
You are almost never positive when it comes to star wars.

...he said that Star Wars has never been better, and this is him being negative?  When the entire discussion here is happening because you are predicting "dark times" for Star Wars are coming?

Quote
It also really shows when TLJ does poorly in China that people are sick of the direction of these new movies and they feel that something is not being done

TFA and R1 did poorly in China as well - the Chinese have never been as Star Wars happy as the US.  TLJ still has made over a billion in worldwide ticket sales in its first three weeks - it's doing just fine. edit: The prequels also did abysmally in China, for the record.  China never showed the original trilogy on the big screen until 2015, so Star Wars isn't a part of their culture the way it is elsewhere.  China is a bad example to use to argue that Star Wars is being badly received.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 23, 2018, 04:28:12 PM
How am I the one being negative? Your topic is literally called "Dark Times' Plus your last topics that youve posted have been about how youre not happy with the current state of star wars. ive always maintained my opinion on star wars on being average at best expect for 5 and maybe four. I could rant about the fans, the toxicity in the community etc but I dont because its a dumb thing to spend time on.

If you don't like it, don't bother with it. Its that simple

Also China has never been a good market for Star Wars so not really the best example.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Slornie on January 23, 2018, 04:34:26 PM
EA loss 3 billion dollars in stock value and were threaten into losing their star wars liense. Disney got bad PR for the issue and it has had a negaitve impact of BF2 sales.
So some investors suffered a minor blip (https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EA/chart?p=EA#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6MSwidGltZVVuaXQiOm51bGwsImNhbmRsZVdpZHRoIjoxMS4wOTUyMzgwOTUyMzgwOTUsInZvbHVtZVVuZGVybGF5Ijp0cnVlLCJhZGoiOnRydWUsImNyb3NzaGFpciI6dHJ1ZSwiY2hhcnRUeXBlIjoibGluZSIsImV4dGVuZGVkIjpmYWxzZSwibWFya2V0U2Vzc2lvbnMiOnt9LCJhZ2dyZWdhdGlvblR5cGUiOiJvaGxjIiwiY2hhcnRTY2FsZSI6ImxpbmVhciIsInN0dWRpZXMiOnsidm9sIHVuZHIiOnsidHlwZSI6InZvbCB1bmRyIiwiaW5wdXRzIjp7ImlkIjoidm9sIHVuZHIiLCJkaXNwbGF5Ijoidm9sIHVuZHIifSwib3V0cHV0cyI6eyJVcCBWb2x1bWUiOiIjMDBiMDYxIiwiRG93biBWb2x1bWUiOiIjRkYzMzNBIn0sInBhbmVsIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJwYXJhbWV0ZXJzIjp7ImhlaWdodFBlcmNlbnRhZ2UiOjAuMjUsIndpZHRoRmFjdG9yIjowLjQ1LCJjaGFydE5hbWUiOiJjaGFydCJ9fX0sInBhbmVscyI6eyJjaGFydCI6eyJwZXJjZW50IjoxLCJkaXNwbGF5IjoiRUEiLCJjaGFydE5hbWUiOiJjaGFydCIsInRvcCI6MH19LCJzZXRTcGFuIjp7Im11bHRpcGxpZXIiOjIsImJhc2UiOiJ5ZWFyIiwicGVyaW9kaWNpdHkiOnsicGVyaW9kIjoxLCJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsifSwicmFuZ2UiOiIyX1kifSwibGluZVdpZHRoIjoyLCJzdHJpcGVkQmFja2dyb3VkIjp0cnVlLCJldmVudHMiOnRydWUsImNvbG9yIjoiIzAwODFmMiIsImN1c3RvbVJhbmdlIjpudWxsLCJzeW1ib2xzIjpbeyJzeW1ib2wiOiJFQSIsInN5bWJvbE9iamVjdCI6eyJzeW1ib2wiOiJFQSJ9LCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6MSwiaW50ZXJ2YWwiOiJ3ZWVrIiwidGltZVVuaXQiOm51bGwsInNldFNwYW4iOnsibXVsdGlwbGllciI6MiwiYmFzZSI6InllYXIiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6eyJwZXJpb2QiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoid2VlayJ9LCJyYW5nZSI6IjJfWSJ9fV19).  Hardly the end of the world for EA or Disney.

1. While i agree that is somewhat true at the sametime their were things in the EU that layed the ground work for the prequels like the Thrawn Triology which establish coursant. Say what you want about the prequels but that is true. They had other options like IDK erasing the all things that were unnesary and keeping things like the Thrawn Triolgy in canon. they were plenty of ways to go about it and they chose a nuclear bomb style clean slate that pissed off people.
Lucas re-used the name of the planet and a handful of other inconsequential items which he liked.  In other ways Lucas completely disregarded everything outside his own world-building (and even some of his own work), such as Zahn dating the Clone Wars much earlier and having the clones as the bad guys (rather than part of the formation of the Empire).

In terms of Disney I can guarantee there would have been just as much, if not more, upset and outrage if they had selectively de-canonised parts of the old EU and kept others.  No matter what they kept or didn't keep someone would have argued for/against any particular book, comic, game plot, character, event or other content.  Sure, the Thrawn trilogy and X-Wing novels are widely appreciated, but then you've got other aspects like the New Jedi Order series which is much more divisive.  Sidelining the whole lot was much neater, and hasn't prevented them resurrecting elements in appropriate settings (e.g. Thrawn, various units in Rebels etc).

2. I know that, but still it shows disney is making a monoploy where they are fully incontrol of what is said and shown and Marvel is not the best at making comics IMO, but neither is Darkhorse.
They own the rights to the entire fictional universe, of course it's a monopoly.  It always has been.  When Lucas owned the franchise he got to say what did, or didn't happen, what was and wasn't permitted.  Major plot points on the novels went through his approval, e.g. major character deaths in the NJO, plot points in the Clone Wars TV show, and story outlines for games.  The only difference now is Disney set up a group to oversee things from the off (the story group) and have put in place some more comprehensively structured license deals.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 23, 2018, 04:38:00 PM
My thoughts on the matter are well known, generally I do see a decline in both quality and writing for the new films with a focus more on appealing to demographics rather than focusing on story telling and good writing. Couple this with the mass saturation of the SW market and you are looking at what the post YVW EU was getting towards, repeats with no real thought out ending, poor writing merely pumped out in the name of people clamoring for more SW when really everything story wise that could be done had been done.
You're going to get to the point where SW is a YEARLY thing, it will stop being a phenomenon and start being average, then below average and when the golden tit has been milked dry it will die a desiccated and ignominious end much as the Western did and now the Pirates genera is. Rather than going out on high notes and even though the prequels were far from great bastions of film making, each did try and do something new and expanded the existing lore and in each there are very memorable scenes and characters. Over saturation can and WILL kill this franchise and by the time it does, we won't look at these new SW films as pillars that stand alone as testaments, they'll be just part of a weak mass produced forest of spin offs. Of the Marvel films, how many get massive rewatches? How many people look back on Cpt America, the first Iron Man, and Thor now and rewatch? You'll find very few who do and with each year that number drops. Yet after a decade the prequels for all their faults are still big on rewatches and reruns on tv, even more so the Original Trilogy. Can you honestly say these new films will be on mass watch lists 10 years from now? 20? 30? Will they be selected to be preserved as treasures of film like the OT were? Somehow I very much doubt it. You're seeing the mass marketing of the new gen, appeal to as many wide audiences as possible, sell merchandise and clean out the coffers before the bottom drops out, then it will be on to something else.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 23, 2018, 05:15:30 PM
Over saturation can and WILL kill this franchise and by the time it does, we won't look at these new SW films as pillars that stand alone as testaments, they'll be just part of a weak mass produced forest of spin offs.

The same arguments have been made for Star Trek, which has over 700 hours of screen time thus far.  It's still doing all right.

As for how often Marvel movies are rewatched, that's a difficult question to get hard numbers for.  DVD/Blue-ray sales have declined significantly for the last several films, but streaming and downloading services were also exploding over the same time period - how people watch such has been changing, and streaming services like Netflix and online retailers like iTunes don't routinely release data for how often something is watched or purchased.  Unless you have actual evidence that the viewership has seen a significant decline, I don't think you've got much to base an argument on.  I know I've rewatched many of them plenty of times: Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Guardians 1 and 2, Homecoming... all still quite enjoyable movies, and I'll be adding Ragnarok to the list when it comes out.  Marvel's been willing to experiment a bit with its movies as time goes on, which has improved the longevity of the franchise significantly: Winter Soldier was a spy thriller, Ragnarok and GotG 1/2 were comedies, Homecoming was a high school coming of age movie, and so on.  Thus far, Star Wars has been showing its willingness to experiment as well: Rogue 1 was a war movie, and if the Han Solo movie has a lot of crime thriller elements to it that will help it stand out as well.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Marvel-Cinematic-Universe#tab=summary (https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Marvel-Cinematic-Universe#tab=summary) also makes it pretty clear that Marvel movies haven't gotten less attention as they've continued - they've gotten more.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 23, 2018, 07:48:46 PM
The same arguments have been made for Star Trek, which has over 700 hours of screen time thus far.  It's still doing all right.

As for how often Marvel movies are rewatched, that's a difficult question to get hard numbers for.  DVD/Blue-ray sales have declined significantly for the last several films, but streaming and downloading services were also exploding over the same time period - how people watch such has been changing, and streaming services like Netflix and online retailers like iTunes don't routinely release data for how often something is watched or purchased.  Unless you have actual evidence that the viewership has seen a significant decline, I don't think you've got much to base an argument on.  I know I've rewatched many of them plenty of times: Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Guardians 1 and 2, Homecoming... all still quite enjoyable movies, and I'll be adding Ragnarok to the list when it comes out.  Marvel's been willing to experiment a bit with its movies as time goes on, which has improved the longevity of the franchise significantly: Winter Soldier was a spy thriller, Ragnarok and GotG 1/2 were comedies, Homecoming was a high school coming of age movie, and so on.  Thus far, Star Wars has been showing its willingness to experiment as well: Rogue 1 was a war movie, and if the Han Solo movie has a lot of crime thriller elements to it that will help it stand out as well.

Marvel is a bad example. Its has a vast pool it can draw content from and can has change the formula slightly since age of ultron. More movies have more heroes in them and they are less origin films and more team up movies. Antman: had both Antman, and Falcon in it(Wasp was sort of in it?) Civil War: About 2/3rds of the avengers roster plus Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Antman. Guardians of the Galaxy had all the guardians plus Yondu and Mantis. Thor Ragarock had Hulk and Thor, and Valykrie. Black Panther made only have Black Panther, but the winter soldier could pop up.
Also last time i check people are not too happy about the new Star Trek TV series. Again with me oversaturation of star wars will happen, but i do not care about that. I care about the quality of new generation of star wars. Rebels is a step in the right direction and i am very invested in the show. HELL i even posted all my star wars comics i own and none of them our legends accept Darth Maul son of Dathomir. I am hoping to pick up Crimson Empire for my birthday along with maybe the Dark Horse stories about Quilan Vos. Hell I even pre-order a digital copy of the Last Jedi because i really liked it, and by really liked it i mean that it is now my in my top 3 of star wars movies. I am invested heavily in both the new and old canon. I just want the new canon to be better and tell great stories, and make me invested. To some extend with Tarkin, TLJ, Rebel Dawn, Thrawn, Fallen Stars, Inferno Squadron(the book) Son of Dathomir, Vader Down, Darth Maul, Darth Vader and the Phasma book it succeeds, but with Shattered Empire, BF2 Campaign, Aftermath, and TFA it fails horribly.
How am I the one being negative? Your topic is literally called "Dark Times' Plus your last topics that youve posted have been about how youre not happy with the current state of star wars. ive always maintained my opinion on star wars on being average at best expect for 5 and maybe four. I could rant about the fans, the toxicity in the community etc but I dont because its a dumb thing to spend time on.

If you don't like it, don't bother with it. Its that simple

Also China has never been a good market for Star Wars so not really the best example.
First i would like to say that I am sorry, i just did not always understand man. You have a right to your Opionion and i should of respected that and i didnt and i am sorry.
Second: Toxcity is a problem with alot of communities, i mean look at Warhammer 40k. Fans of stuff do and say dumb things but they aren't indicative of the fan base.
third: I not always negative on the new canon. I am someone who reads the darth vader comic because its amazing. The Darth Maul comic is great. Thrawn is great.
So some investors suffered a minor blip (https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EA/chart?p=EA#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).  Hardly the end of the world for EA or Disney.
In terms of Disney I can guarantee there would have been just as much, if not more, upset and outrage if they had selectively de-canonised parts of the old EU and kept others.  No matter what they kept or didn't keep someone would have argued for/against any particular book, comic, game plot, character, event or other content.  Sure, the Thrawn trilogy and X-Wing novels are widely appreciated, but then you've got other aspects like the New Jedi Order series which is much more divisive.  Sidelining the whole lot was much neater, and hasn't prevented them resurrecting elements in appropriate settings (e.g. Thrawn, various units in Rebels etc).
The first point on the affects of SWBF2 EA while the stock value recover that is not the only consequence in the system. BF2 sold poorly, EA received bad PR that almost them their star wars licensee and then lawmakers got in on the situation. Saying that it was a nothing is(no offense) a Bullshit statement.
I agree about the sidelining, but i will also with that thirty year gap why not just take the X-Wing, and the Thrawn trilogy and levae them while erasing everything else? Those are the most popular aside from Plagus and the Darth Bane books.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 23, 2018, 09:24:49 PM
Marvel is a bad example. Its has a vast pool it can draw content from and can has change the formula slightly since age of ultron. More movies have more heroes in them and they are less origin films and more team up movies. Antman: had both Antman, and Falcon in it(Wasp was sort of in it?) Civil War: About 2/3rds of the avengers roster plus Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Antman. Guardians of the Galaxy had all the guardians plus Yondu and Mantis. Thor Ragarock had Hulk and Thor, and Valykrie. Black Panther made only have Black Panther, but the winter soldier could pop up.

You missed my point - Marvel's success hasn't just been about the roster, though that certainly hasn't hurt; their success has been that they are willing to experiment with the superhero genre in general and try out new styles of films involving superheroes, and many of the other highly successful superhero movies have done the same by crafting stories involving superheroes that are in many ways not truly superhero movies (Dark Knight, Logan, even Deadpool).  There is no reason Star Wars can't do the same, and it too has a huge roster of popular characters to draw from of create anew.
 
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Also last time i check people are not too happy about the new Star Trek TV series.

Check again.  DSC's start was a little rough, but it's been doing a great job so far.

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Again with me oversaturation of star wars will happen, but i do not care about that. I care about the quality of new generation of star wars. Rebels is a step in the right direction and i am very invested in the show. HELL i even posted all my star wars comics i own and none of them our legends accept Darth Maul son of Dathomir. I am hoping to pick up Crimson Empire for my birthday along with maybe the Dark Horse stories about Quilan Vos. Hell I even pre-order a digital copy of the Last Jedi because i really liked it, and by really liked it i mean that it is now my in my top 3 of star wars movies. I am invested heavily in both the new and old canon. I just want the new canon to be better and tell great stories, and make me invested. To some extend with Tarkin, TLJ, Rebel Dawn, Thrawn, Fallen Stars, Inferno Squadron(the book) Son of Dathomir, Vader Down, Darth Maul, Darth Vader and the Phasma book it succeeds, but with Shattered Empire, BF2 Campaign, Aftermath, and TFA it fails horribly.

I think you're forgetting just how much bad or mediocre Star Wars content there was with the old EU.  You freely admit that there have been plenty of stories you've enjoyed with the new, so why do some failures make you so certain that things are going horribly wrong?

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Second: Toxcity is a problem with alot of communities, i mean look at Warhammer 40k. Fans of stuff do and say dumb things but they aren't indicative of the fan base.

So don't read too much into people complaining online? ;)

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The first point on the affects of SWBF2 EA while the stock value recover that is not the only consequence in the system. BF2 sold poorly, EA received bad PR that almost them their star wars licensee and then lawmakers got in on the situation. Saying that it was a nothing is(no offense) a Bullshit statement.

It wasn't nothing, agreed, but it wasn't the death knell for either EA or Star Wars - it'll make EA change their game up slightly in response, but otherwise it'll have minimal impact in the long run.  Most Star Wars games in the past weren't very good either - even Empire at War is simply an okay strategy game with some major weaknesses that only gets attention because it has the Star Wars license attached to it.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 23, 2018, 09:41:39 PM
You missed my point - Marvel's success hasn't just been about the roster, though that certainly hasn't hurt; their success has been that they are willing to experiment with the superhero genre in general and try out new styles of films involving superheroes, and many of the other highly successful superhero movies have done the same by crafting stories involving superheroes that are in many ways not truly superhero movies (Dark Knight, Logan, even Deadpool).  There is no reason Star Wars can't do the same, and it too has a huge roster of popular characters to draw from of create anew.
 
I think you're forgetting just how much bad or mediocre Star Wars content there was with the old EU.  You freely admit that there have been plenty of stories you've enjoyed with the new, so why do some failures make you so certain that things are going horribly wrong?
If what your saying is true then Disney should then do different types of star wars stories like IDK Deathtroopers, a Empire story, the adventures of Shriv and Lando?
You have to understand that Disney will probably not got that route. If it was up to me i would flip the idea of the factions on their head. Maybe make it so the at in Episode 9 the IR comes to the rescue and saves the resistance. It be a great story and show the old vs the new factions. The han solo movie also isn't a original idea. I say if Disney really wants to take advantage of the universe then start having movies tell stories about places and characters we have not seen before set between movies. You have many creative ideas, but it seems they dont want to make creative ideas(except rogue one is pretty creative)

I mean IMO the new stuff is more connected, but that's more to do with the fact that the people in charge are wanting to keep the lore consistent and connected. Which is why Rogue One is connected to TLJ along with BF2. Its more streamline, but the problem it creates is a lack of interesting stories. This was a complaint i had about BF2's campaign. It took no risks, and it felt like it was retreading the same ground. We fought in the same battles from the books and comics which i dont care about. I dont want to see a video game version of Shattered Empire and Aftermath. I want a story that takes lore in new directions. for example make a video game set in wild space, or maybe a game in the outer rim about a smuggler(dash render 2.0 which i am fine with). Not everything needs to be connected. The reason i hate Aftermath and Shattered Empire is because it forces writers who want to write future stories be force to follow this. If i wanted to write about the post Jakku Empire i cant because the way they wrote those books made it so you cant. it also brings into question why make a 30 year gap if barely anything happens during most of that time? You cant be telling the Empire was not still fighting for at least another five years, because it would be impossible for the Empire to lose everything withing a year even with sabotage from within. You cant tell me after Jakku all Imperials(except the FO guys) were either executed, defected, or surrender all their ships, all their weapons, and all their military strength and were now force at the end of a gun to follow NR rules. The FO doesnt count in this scenario because they were off in their own thing and they were mostly just Scientists, a few part time warlords, and a couple battle commanders AKA less then 0.000001 percent of the Empire
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 24, 2018, 12:28:43 AM
If what your saying is true then Disney should then do different types of star wars stories like IDK Deathtroopers, a Empire story, the adventures of Shriv and Lando?
You have to understand that Disney will probably not got that route. If it was up to me i would flip the idea of the factions on their head. Maybe make it so the at in Episode 9 the IR comes to the rescue and saves the resistance. It be a great story and show the old vs the new factions. The han solo movie also isn't a original idea. I say if Disney really wants to take advantage of the universe then start having movies tell stories about places and characters we have not seen before set between movies. You have many creative ideas, but it seems they dont want to make creative ideas(except rogue one is pretty creative)

Re-read what you've posted here - you ask if Disney should do different types of stories, then you say they aren't doing them, then you say that they have with Rogue One.  You are all over the map here.

Give it time.  We are all of three movies in, not even a decade into Disney owning it - you can't expect over thirty years' of EU content to be matched by five or so years' of Disney content.  There will be more to come, and the spinoff movies are the perfect place for Disney to start getting experimental with the franchise, just as they already are with Marvel.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 24, 2018, 09:38:44 AM


Give it time.  We are all of three movies in, not even a decade into Disney owning it - you can't expect over thirty years' of EU content to be matched by five or so years' of Disney content.  There will be more to come, and the spinoff movies are the perfect place for Disney to start getting experimental with the franchise, just as they already are with Marvel.

The bottom is going to drop out, I expect within the decade. Looking at cinema history you get timelines where things are popular and companies mass produce them as much as possible to cash in before the bottom drops out, generas can and DO die Pali, for the longest time Musicals, Westerns and Rome were being mass produced because EVERYONE went and saw them, in response studios mass produced them until the public interest went from invested to meh to box office poison. There is a reason you don't see more than the odd western now, a reason musicals have become a shadow of the power they once had in showings and why other than a short run on HBO and Gladiator you haven't seen successful Roman themed media. With Star Trek in many ways the franchise is largely a shadow of it's former self as well, sure there will always be a core fan base for it, but Star Trek is hardly the household staple it was a decade and a half ago. Marvel's time is fast approaching with the Superhero genera as well. It's just a question of when not if, that's simply fact and the older films have been largely ignored in showtimes on movie streaming sites as well. Whether illegal or sanctioned sites you can see hits of viewership decline steadily for the older films. The newer ones are entertaining and some may even last a decade, but 10 to 20 years down the road you'll be hard pressed to look back on the Marvel verse with great memory I think. They'll be along the same lines as the hundreds of Western shows that populated the 50s, a time piece but unremarkable in the long run, much the same way as making dozens of new SW films will do to the SW saga. Tell me details without looking them up on wiki about each Star Trek movie, summations, emotions conjured by the films moments and how they stand the test of time over a decade or more. I'd be fairly surprised if you could unless you were a die hard Trek fan, because the vast majority don't leave an impact. Compare this with when there were just the two trilogies. Both have moments people en masse remember and quote and all six films, flaws and all still resonate because sometimes it is better to do something for a time and LEAVE IT ALONE, go out on a high note, find a STOPPING point, this was something even the old EU didn't get right. There comes a point when as a writer, entertainer and creator you have to say, "It's done, we've done all we can with this and if we keep going we're recycling." It's one of the main reasons Seinfeld is a better example of self aware comedy than the Simpsons, it knew when to stop and say, "That's it." rather than drag on indefinitely to a slow and meaningless end. There is a certain beauty in finality and it is better to meet that finality with dignity on a high note than to become a mass produced money grab that dies out with a gradual whimper as opposed to shouts of we want more!
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Slornie on January 24, 2018, 01:59:47 PM
If what your saying is true then Disney should then do different types of star wars stories like IDK Deathtroopers, a Empire story, the adventures of Shriv and Lando?  You have to understand that Disney will probably not got that route.
Why won't they? As Pali said we're just over five years into Disney's ownership and less than four since the Story Group reset canon.  Sure they started out fairly safe by bringing back fan favourites to support a new cast in the sequel trilogy but then Rogue One was quite a departure from safe space, and there's no reason to think Lucasfilm doesn't have the same freedom to nurture creativity as Marvel has done since joining the Mouse House.

If it was up to me i would flip the idea of the factions on their head. Maybe make it so the at in Episode 9 the IR comes to the rescue and saves the resistance. It be a great story and show the old vs the new factions.
And this is why Disney have professional story writers.  What's an IR?  We've already got like three factions with limited back-story in the sequel trilogy (which you and others have complained vehemently about) so why on earth would you want them to go add another?  "Surprise Thrawn!" or "Surprise Pellaeon!" rolling in on a white horse (which I assume is what you're envisaging) would be pure fan-service to a relative minority of the intended audience and have no meaning to most moviegoers.  It would fall as flat as Bendict Cumberbatch's character reveal in Star Trek Into Darkness: Khan who? (Disclosure: As a Trek fan I actually really liked STID)

The han solo movie also isn't a original idea.
Please stop. The movie isn't out yet, we've had no trailer and know practically nothing about it.  You can't say it isn't an original idea (and really, what IS an original idea in movie terms now?) or that it's guaranteed to be rubbish or flop.

With Star Trek in many ways the franchise is largely a shadow of it's former self as well, sure there will always be a core fan base for it, but Star Trek is hardly the household staple it was a decade and a half ago.
To be fair Star Trek was never as much a household staple as Star Wars, certainly not in international terms.  And although I agree it did suffer from a measure of saturation and audience fatigue during the late 90s and early 2000s that was far more to do with having three full-on TV series on the go at once or immediately following one another than anything else.  Plus the relatively weak movie offerings following from the TNG era.  In fact if you read on some of the Trek-related community sites you'll find a lot of fans are actually clamouring for more "proper" Trek on TV (vs more movies), no matter whether they personally approve of the direction Discovery has taken the franchise.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 24, 2018, 04:29:29 PM
And this is why Disney have professional story writers.  What's an IR?  We've already got like three factions with limited back-story in the sequel trilogy (which you and others have complained vehemently about) so why on earth would you want them to go add another?  "Surprise Thrawn!" or "Surprise Pellaeon!" rolling in on a white horse (which I assume is what you're envisaging) would be pure fan-service to a relative minority of the intended audience and have no meaning to most moviegoers.  It would fall as flat as Bendict Cumberbatch's character reveal in Star Trek Into Darkness: Khan who? (Disclosure: As a Trek fan I actually really liked STID)
Yeah because professional writers were the ones who came up with the idea of forces of destiny right? Professional writers were the ones who created Starkiller base. Professional writers were the ones who thought the movie Gestorm was cool and took the idea of weather satiletes and TADA! Operation: Cinder.
The quaility writers for star wars can be counted on one hand(one of them is Timothy Zahn)
Also keep in mind we still dont truly know the state of the galaxy and apparently their is a Imperial Remnant out there somwhere. Saying its fan serivice while true you could argue Luke appearing on crait was fan service. Again you can explain it in a prequel movie that be great

Please stop. The movie isn't out yet, we've had no trailer and know practically nothing about it.  You can't say it isn't an original idea (and really, what IS an original idea in movie terms now?) or that it's guaranteed to be rubbish or flop.
Yeah their is no trailer, dispite the fact this comes out In MAY. Its also had problems on set and Disney excpects it to fail. The problems on set were wayyyy worse then rogue one.
Re-read what you've posted here - you ask if Disney should do different types of stories, then you say they aren't doing them, then you say that they have with Rogue One.  You are all over the map here.
Yeah i did and it was to make a point. I want stories that are different. I dont need a orgin for Han Solo, i dont need to know what Boba Fett did in bewteen 4-5. I want stories that take me places new and to meet new characters while keep familiaty. Rogue One did that. Except now we are getting movie nobody really wanted. Where are the other more creative ideas? I dont need a Kenobi movie now since rebels tide up his and Maul's story. I would like maybe a Vader movie where he is a being of pure rage because we have years and time we can use to tell stories.  We have wild space, Thrawn, plenty of sources to drawn form and we are sticking way to close to the orginal triology(My only real complain about the spinoffs)

Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 24, 2018, 04:48:14 PM
The bottom is going to drop out, I expect within the decade. Looking at cinema history you get timelines where things are popular and companies mass produce them as much as possible to cash in before the bottom drops out, generas can and DO die Pali, for the longest time Musicals, Westerns and Rome were being mass produced because EVERYONE went and saw them, in response studios mass produced them until the public interest went from invested to meh to box office poison. There is a reason you don't see more than the odd western now, a reason musicals have become a shadow of the power they once had in showings and why other than a short run on HBO and Gladiator you haven't seen successful Roman themed media.

And yet each of these has made comebacks in recent years, with "La La Land" nearly winning best picture, with "There Will Be Blood" (and even "Logan"), with the recent Spartacus series.  Yes, they were overdone, but that was because EVERYONE was doing them, not because 1 movie was coming out each year.  I agree that superhero movies are reaching the oversaturation point, but so does Marvel, which is why they're being more experimental as they go.

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With Star Trek in many ways the franchise is largely a shadow of it's former self as well, sure there will always be a core fan base for it, but Star Trek is hardly the household staple it was a decade and a half ago.

Granted, but in five years?  That may not still be the case, if DSC remains successful.

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Marvel's time is fast approaching with the Superhero genera as well. It's just a question of when not if, that's simply fact and the older films have been largely ignored in showtimes on movie streaming sites as well. Whether illegal or sanctioned sites you can see hits of viewership decline steadily for the older films.

Can you actually provide some numbers to support this claim? edit: I ask this because I can easily provide numbers showing that Marvel's box office results have overall been improving over time, not diminishing: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?view=main&id=marvelcomics.htm&p=.htm shows the peak with Avengers 1, but Avengers 2 outperformed the other movies, Iron Man 3 outperformed the other Iron Man movies, Guardians 2 outperformed Guardians 1, Ragnarok outperformed the other Thor movies, Civil War the other Cap movies... they've made MORE money as they've gone on, not less.

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The newer ones are entertaining and some may even last a decade, but 10 to 20 years down the road you'll be hard pressed to look back on the Marvel verse with great memory I think. They'll be along the same lines as the hundreds of Western shows that populated the 50s, a time piece but unremarkable in the long run, much the same way as making dozens of new SW films will do to the SW saga. Tell me details without looking them up on wiki about each Star Trek movie, summations, emotions conjured by the films moments and how they stand the test of time over a decade or more. I'd be fairly surprised if you could unless you were a die hard Trek fan, because the vast majority don't leave an impact.

Yeah, die hard Star Trek fan, so I can indeed do that. ;)

Quote
Compare this with when there were just the two trilogies. Both have moments people en masse remember and quote and all six films, flaws and all still resonate because sometimes it is better to do something for a time and LEAVE IT ALONE, go out on a high note, find a STOPPING point, this was something even the old EU didn't get right.

They should've stopped with the OT then, because I don't think the prequels were Star Wars's best chance at going out on a high note - I'd say the sequels so far have been far superior to the prequels, and I'm far happier with them being the swan song for the franchise if that's how things turn out.

i did and it was to make a point. I want stories that are different. I dont need a orgin for Han Solo, i dont need to know what Boba Fett did in bewteen 4-5. I want stories that take me places new and to meet new characters while keep familiaty. Rogue One did that. Except now we are getting movie nobody really wanted. Where are the other more creative ideas? I dont need a Kenobi movie now since rebels tide up his and Maul's story. I would like maybe a Vader movie where he is a being of pure rage because we have years and time we can use to tell stories.  We have wild space, Thrawn, plenty of sources to drawn form and we are sticking way to close to the orginal triology(My only real complain about the spinoffs)

You are being incredibly self-contradictory here: you want stories that are about different characters we don't know - except the characters we do know you want them to tell stories about.  You want original stories, except you want adaptations of stories you already like.  Make a choice.  You have no idea what the story will be for the Han Solo or Kenobi movies, both of which "nobody really wanted" is absolutely NOT true for as plenty of people have been requesting exactly those stories, so how can you already judge them to not be original?  Simply because they include a character or two you know, which is what you've been asking for?
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 24, 2018, 08:33:14 PM
You are being incredibly self-contradictory here: you want stories that are about different characters we don't know - except the characters we do know you want them to tell stories about.  You want original stories, except you want adaptations of stories you already like.  Make a choice.  You have no idea what the story will be for the Han Solo or Kenobi movies, both of which "nobody really wanted" is absolutely NOT true for as plenty of people have been requesting exactly those stories, so how can you already judge them to not be original?  Simply because they include a character or two you know, which is what you've been asking for?
People requested the Kenobi movie they could see both Darth Maul and Obi Wan could face off for the last time. Now that Maul is dead canonically in the duel in rebels most people dropped off the idea of a Kenobi movie. The other reason was because we had stupid theories like Rey Kenobi which people bought into which made people want it more. Now that is off the table their is no reason to do a Kenobi movie as both Mr.Sunday Movies, Star Wars Only, and many of friends.
Also where is my self-contradictory? If your talking about me saying I "Maybe" want a Darth Vader movie then you did not read my comment. I was saying that Vader was one of the only characters you can really get away with this(maybe Boba Fett but it have to be like a bounty hunter movei with Bossk, Dengar and maybe Cad Bane). Vader is someone who has many intresting both canon and legends stories. The thing also about Vader is he is terrifying and really is one of the greatest bad guys on all time. A moive about him is possible because that gap bewteen 3-4 provides many oppotunities for creative stories. Also more people want this because of Rogue One showing what Vader can truly do. Keep in mind i put this as a "maybe" meaning i would be fine if they did it(its not a orgin film, but maybe a story that could show how ruthless and capable vader is). Han Solo is different. The Han Solo movie should not happen becuase of a few reasons.
1. Its impossible to replace Harrison Ford and not many people will be happy with how they portray him. While i am all for taking Disney taking risks i am not for them taking stupid risks. Han Solo is a character more treatable to TV Show(non-live action) or a series of books.
2. It is simply to familiar. I need new characters and keep in mind Kira(Emila Clarks Character) is the only new protagonist. Han Solo, Lando, and Chewbaca are all central characters to OT. I dont need their orgins.
3. It is predictable. We know we are going to see Han win the Falcon, we know we are going to see how Chewbaca met Han, we know we are going to see Kessel, we know we are going to see the Kessel Run, and we know we are going to see Lando, the hutts and the underworld. Nothing new can really be shown. However i will credit them on something this movie is doing right, apparently the Pyke Syndicate is going to be in the film along with Corrilean Hounds, and Mibamm. Thats a great way to win over me into seeing this moive. (but to be fair i will see star wars most of the time.)
4. Their are better alternatives such as
Bounty Hunter movie: Made up of the best of best bounty Hunters including Dengar, Bossk, and Boba Fett(this is one exception to my rule on new stories)
A Imperial Movie: We have secene small little things in the movie about the Empire, but really like how Rogue One showed us the Evil of the rebellion, this film should convey the good of the Empire.
A movie involing Mandolirians: These guys are basically spartans and with that notion comes great potential in a Mandolorian War film.
The Old Republic: Lets face it, this time needs some lore and hopefully we will see that down the line.
A Snoke Movie?: Who the hell is Snoke?
A movie about the Chiss and Thrawn: This will happen because people will evenutally ask for it.
A top gun style starfighter movie: Rogue Squadron, the 181st, or a completely new fighter unit. This would be a nice idea since space battles are always fun to watch.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 24, 2018, 09:15:20 PM
(but to be fair i will see star wars most of the time.)

And this is why they have little to worry about when it comes to pleasing the hardcore fanbase.

This conversation is going in circles.  I think I'm done with it.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: AppTRL on January 26, 2018, 07:16:14 PM
And this is why they have little to worry about when it comes to pleasing the hardcore fanbase.

This conversation is going in circles.  I think I'm done with it.

Ya, this thread was exhausting to just read. Severe case of tunnel vision tbh.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 27, 2018, 12:08:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Sn_wN2p44

This is my feelings on the matter. There comes a time when something needs to end.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Admiral Stephen on January 27, 2018, 06:04:22 PM
Disney had better be careful with the next few Star Wars movies they make. They may be in dangerous territory with some of the fan base. Looking at Rotten Tomatoes, I see that only 49% of audience members liked The Last Jedi. Critics seemed to like the film (91%), but a lot of fans really seemed to not like it. So it does seem to be a little more than the hardcore fans like ourselves who are a bit weary of Disney.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 27, 2018, 07:37:44 PM
And this is why they have little to worry about when it comes to pleasing the hardcore fanbase.

This conversation is going in circles.  I think I'm done with it.
You clearly did not understand why i said that. I said that because my patience is alot better then other star wars fans and because i have not been overly pissed off yet(though i might skip a Obi Wan movie, or Episode 9). Using me as a representation of all star wars fans is a weak argument.

I think you're forgetting just how much bad or mediocre Star Wars content there was with the old EU.  You freely admit that there have been plenty of stories you've enjoyed with the new, so why do some failures make you so certain that things are going horribly wrong?

So don't read too much into people complaining online? ;)
To address this point: The EU has alot of bad and mediocre stories, because it is so damn big. Hundreds of books, comics, and short stories. Canon has good stories becasuse it is so damn small, but it does have very very bad stories and terrible writing. Some failures also show a sign in a decline in quality.

2nd point: their is a difference between toxicity and legitament critism. Fans have legititament critisms and they should at least be reconized. Toxcity would be more death threats, insults, and all around hate. If i call something stupid and ilogical based on facts and lofic it is not toxcity its critism.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: GreyStar on January 28, 2018, 02:40:44 AM
Disney had better be careful with the next few Star Wars movies they make. They may be in dangerous territory with some of the fan base. Looking at Rotten Tomatoes, I see that only 49% of audience members liked The Last Jedi. Critics seemed to like the film (91%), but a lot of fans really seemed to not like it. So it does seem to be a little more than the hardcore fans like ourselves who are a bit weary of Disney.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

Just using the stats when it suits your case. There’s been reports of review bombing attempts for the Last Jedi because it had asian, black, and female protagonists. So the reviews on RT are not completely credibile for that reason, and also because people likely to review a movie are ones more concerned with quality to begin with, while many average movie goers, even if they hate a movie, simply don’t.

For example, I’ve spent hours extolling my hatred for TFA, dedciated a few days worth of my life to it. And never have I once gave it a bad review on any offical site. So yeah, the stats aren’t always reliable.

Secondly, and the real reason that your post irks me so nuch, is the complete and utter fact that it’s cherry picking stats. TFA has after the year since it’s release an 88% approval rating by audience, and somehow a 93% by critics. And that movie was terrible. Great for Mr. Peutro who has a compelling arguement for liking the movie, but overall terrible. So can you really trust the stats when you consider all that?
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 28, 2018, 04:21:52 AM
Secondly, and the real reason that your post irks me so nuch, is the complete and utter fact that it’s cherry picking stats. TFA has after the year since it’s release an 88% approval rating by audience, and somehow a 93% by critics. And that movie was terrible. Great for Mr. Peutro who has a compelling arguement for liking the movie, but overall terrible. So can you really trust the stats when you consider all that?

The reason for this is that a movie being terrible is a subjective judgment, not an objective one.  It's very possible you're simply in the 12% that don't like the movie, if we are charitable and assume that the 88% approval rating accurately reflects general opinion.  There's nothing wrong with holding a minority opinion regarding art, but don't mistake your own opinion of a piece of art as being an objective fact regarding that piece.  If I had to give TFA a thumbs up or thumbs down, I'd definitely give it a thumbs up - it's a flawed film in some ways, as is any film to some degree, but I'd never call it terrible. edit: In short, this is simply a difference of opinion, and neither of our judgments of the movie are objectively correct or incorrect.

Your overall point, however, I fully agree with - user/audience approval ratings online for films, games, or what-have-you are going to be heavily weighted by extreme opinions, and it is a mistake to assume that those opinions are all approaching the subject from the same perspective, share the same concerns, or accurately reflect the percentage of the audience that shares such an opinion.

edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Sn_wN2p44

This is my feelings on the matter. There comes a time when something needs to end.

There have been 3 Star Wars films released in the last decade, versus enough superhero films that a best 50 list from the 2002-2012 decade can be made - and that is from an article from the same year Avengers came out, which was arguably before or right as Marvel really hit its stride. http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-20120827-top-superhero-movies-pictures-photogallery.html  Respectfully, but Star Wars has a LONG way to go before it reaches the exhaustion point that superhero films may be approaching.  Edit: Narrow it to just the last three years and the big companies and we've had 7 Marvel movies and 4 DC, versus 3 Star Wars.  In 2018 alone we will have 1 Star Wars versus 3 Marvel and 1 DC.  Superhero movies are coming out at a 4-1 rate compared to Star Wars movies even if we compare only the big names for the last three years and the near future.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 28, 2018, 09:59:39 AM
Just using the stats when it suits your case. There’s been reports of review bombing attempts for the Last Jedi because it had asian, black, and female protagonists. So the reviews on RT are not completely credibile for that reason, and also because people likely to review a movie are ones more concerned with quality to begin with, while many average movie goers, even if they hate a movie, simply don’t.

Secondly, and the real reason that your post irks me so nuch, is the complete and utter fact that it’s cherry picking stats. TFA has after the year since it’s release an 88% approval rating by audience, and somehow a 93% by critics. And that movie was terrible. Great for Mr. Peutro who has a compelling arguement for liking the movie, but overall terrible. So can you really trust the stats when you consider all that?
Can i point out that reports are reports. Your complain Xizer is using something that stats that are not "completely accurate" and then you use something that is not completely true. As someone who knows how rotten tomatoes works they have a system in place to both detect bots, and troll posts. So no, you are incorrect, but i will see at least maybe 1-5% of the reviews could be trolls. However that is not enough to lower the films audience score that low, so yes acutal people that are not s posted legit reviews that gave it a low score.

As for TFA this is a simple reason. If was given the benefit of the doubt, people say okay that's cool and they get a chance and most like it(I did not because the more i watched it the more it bother me, compare to TLJ which i liked even more every time i see it) So yeah the reviews are 100% accurate but they represent alot of perple

Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Admiral Stephen on January 28, 2018, 09:09:30 PM
Just using the stats when it suits your case. There’s been reports of review bombing attempts for the Last Jedi because it had asian, black, and female protagonists. So the reviews on RT are not completely credibile for that reason, and also because people likely to review a movie are ones more concerned with quality to begin with, while many average movie goers, even if they hate a movie, simply don’t.

For example, I’ve spent hours extolling my hatred for TFA, dedciated a few days worth of my life to it. And never have I once gave it a bad review on any offical site. So yeah, the stats aren’t always reliable.

Secondly, and the real reason that your post irks me so nuch, is the complete and utter fact that it’s cherry picking stats. TFA has after the year since it’s release an 88% approval rating by audience, and somehow a 93% by critics. And that movie was terrible. Great for Mr. Peutro who has a compelling arguement for liking the movie, but overall terrible. So can you really trust the stats when you consider all that?
Can i point out that reports are reports. Your complain Xizer is using something that stats that are not "completely accurate" and then you use something that is not completely true. As someone who knows how rotten tomatoes works they have a system in place to both detect bots, and troll posts. So no, you are incorrect, but i will see at least maybe 1-5% of the reviews could be trolls. However that is not enough to lower the films audience score that low, so yes acutal people that are not s posted legit reviews that gave it a low score.

As for TFA this is a simple reason. If was given the benefit of the doubt, people say okay that's cool and they get a chance and most like it(I did not because the more i watched it the more it bother me, compare to TLJ which i liked even more every time i see it) So yeah the reviews are 100% accurate but they represent alot of perple

I've read those same reports, but there's no way that score isn't at least somewhat reflective of what the audience thinks. I wasn't the biggest fan of either TFA or TLJ (I did like Rouge One), but I was one of those who did think TLJ could have been waaayyy better than it turned out to be. I feel Disney missed a huge opportunity with TLJ. I think there are fans out there that were hoping for way more from TLJ after TFA left so much unanswered, and their reviews are reflecting that.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 29, 2018, 12:45:08 PM
And yet each of these has made comebacks in recent years, with "La La Land" nearly winning best picture, with "There Will Be Blood" (and even "Logan"), with the recent Spartacus series.  Yes, they were overdone, but that was because EVERYONE was doing them, not because 1 movie was coming out each year.  I agree that superhero movies are reaching the oversaturation point, but so does Marvel, which is why they're being more experimental as they go.

Granted, but in five years?  That may not still be the case, if DSC remains successful.

Can you actually provide some numbers to support this claim? edit: I ask this because I can easily provide numbers showing that Marvel's box office results have overall been improving over time, not diminishing: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?view=main&id=marvelcomics.htm&p=.htm shows the peak with Avengers 1, but Avengers 2 outperformed the other movies, Iron Man 3 outperformed the other Iron Man movies, Guardians 2 outperformed Guardians 1, Ragnarok outperformed the other Thor movies, Civil War the other Cap movies... they've made MORE money as they've gone on, not less.

Yeah, die hard Star Trek fan, so I can indeed do that. ;)

They should've stopped with the OT then, because I don't think the prequels were Star Wars's best chance at going out on a high note - I'd say the sequels so far have been far superior to the prequels, and I'm far happier with them being the swan song for the franchise if that's how things turn out.

You're missing the basic point here, while also confirming my point on the Westerns and Rome/ with very few exceptions spaced out over the last two decades you can count on one hand successful or remotely memorable films that fall into that genera and equally few TV series with nearly every one being about dying out AS a theme. You even admit to beginning to feel the superhero  oversaturation. The same forces that pushed these genera to deaths door are being reflected directly in the superhero genera and Disney is planning MULTIPLE film releases PER year of SW. TFA didn't do great because it was a superior film, it did so because of nostalgia, not having direct competition and a decad break in SW. While TLJ got many views it received a 49% rating because unlike TFA it didn't have the gap. And that is now, wait til  we have 3 or more films a year. SW will cease being a phenomenon and become mundane mass produced normalcy  until it dies from lack of profit.
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Slornie on January 29, 2018, 01:44:55 PM
The same forces that pushed these genera to deaths door are being reflected directly in the superhero genera and Disney is planning MULTIPLE film releases PER year of SW. TFA didn't do great because it was a superior film, it did so because of nostalgia, not having direct competition and a decad break in SW. While TLJ got many views it received a 49% rating because unlike TFA it didn't have the gap. And that is now, wait til  we have 3 or more films a year. SW will cease being a phenomenon and become mundane mass produced normalcy  until it dies from lack of profit.
Disney will have to really ramp up production if they're going to manage multiple SW films per year, and so far I've seen no evidence of that being the likely outcome.  So far they've managed one per year for three years (soon to be four years), and we've only got firm details of a fifth film (Episode IX).  We've no idea when or over how long Rian Johnson's trilogy will emerge, and only really have rumours about potential further spin-offs (e.g. Obi-Wan? Yoda? Boba Fett?).

And even if they do manage to accomplish that rate of release it's still a long way short of that seen in the superhero superhero/comic genre over recent and coming years:

2016
Deadpool
Batman v Superman
Captain America 3
X-Men Apocalypse
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2?)
Suicide Squad
Doctor Strange

2017
Logan
Power Rangers
Guardians of the Galaxy 2
Wonder Woman
Spider Man
Thor 3
Justice League

2018
Black Panther
Avengers Infinity War
Deadpool 2
Ant Man 2
X-Men Dark Phoenix
Aquaman

And that's just from skimming through Wikipedia's year-in-film pages for names I recognise, not accounting for animated films like Lego Batman, Incredibles 2, other similar sci-fi action movies or video game-related franchises like the upcoming Tomb Raider (again).
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 29, 2018, 03:47:00 PM
I've read those same reports, but there's no way that score isn't at least somewhat reflective of what the audience thinks. I wasn't the biggest fan of either TFA or TLJ (I did like Rouge One), but I was one of those who did think TLJ could have been waaayyy better than it turned out to be. I feel Disney missed a huge opportunity with TLJ. I think there are fans out there that were hoping for way more from TLJ after TFA left so much unanswered, and their reviews are reflecting that.

If you look at the reviews it’s almost obvious that bots where used to give TLJ bad reviews so there’s no way to solve it and make sure it was accurate
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 29, 2018, 04:55:19 PM
If you look at the reviews it’s almost obvious that bots where used to give TLJ bad reviews so there’s no way to solve it and make sure it was accurate
Can i point out that reports are reports. Your complain Xizer is using something that stats that are not "completely accurate" and then you use something that is not completely true. As someone who knows how rotten tomatoes works they have a system in place to both detect bots, and troll posts. So no, you are incorrect, but i will see at least maybe 1-5% of the reviews could be trolls. However that is not enough to lower the films audience score that low, so yes acutal people that are not s posted legit reviews that gave it a low score.

As for TFA this is a simple reason. If was given the benefit of the doubt, people say okay that's cool and they get a chance and most like it(I did not because the more i watched it the more it bother me, compare to TLJ which i liked even more every time i see it) So yeah the reviews are 100% accurate but they represent alot of perple



Rotten Tomato has counter measures to both bots and trolls Mr.Puerto. It always has. And while i will agree some can split through the cracks you have to understand people have legitment critiisms and those are weighted in. After i personally took the time reading throught about 100 reviews out of all of them, three came off as suspioucs, but that does not mean they are bots. Again reports are reports and since all we hvae is claims then we have nothing. As far as we can tell those reviews are pretty much the real deal. And at the same time this film did have reasons not to like it(I personally enjoyed it). I think people just need to accept that is a almost accurate score(I like to asume its about 1-3% off the real score.).
So while the Rotten Tomato score is 48% now i think it is mostly in reality in between a 49-54% if we assume some "Groups" or bots slipped through the cracks (this is coming from someone who enjoyed the movie.)
Title: Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
Post by: Pali on January 29, 2018, 06:10:01 PM
The same forces that pushed these genera to deaths door are being reflected directly in the superhero genera and Disney is planning MULTIPLE film releases PER year of SW. TFA didn't do great because it was a superior film, it did so because of nostalgia, not having direct competition and a decad break in SW. While TLJ got many views it received a 49% rating because unlike TFA it didn't have the gap. And that is now, wait til  we have 3 or more films a year. SW will cease being a phenomenon and become mundane mass produced normalcy  until it dies from lack of profit.

I agree that oversaturation is a danger - I simply don't think it is an inevitable one.  I don't see any credible reports that Disney is planning to start putting out multiple Star Wars films per year, so I'm going to need a source on that claim, and without multiple movies per year oversaturation is a lot less likely to become a problem.