Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Corey on June 22, 2014, 11:21:01 PM
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You've all made a few suggestions/requests for the Pentastar Alignment in other places, so I decided to consolidate it into one place. All of the other factions have some consistency to them, but the PA doesn't really feel that way at the moment. I'm not saying we're doing any sort of massive overhaul, but I'd like to get some feeback on how everyone who plays with or against them feels about them. So, are there any units you always use? Never use? Any roles they're lacking in? Any areas in which they feel too much like the Remnant? Anything else you want to mention about them?
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I love them. They are a great middle ground, or rather a sampling of all factions. They have some of the IR heavy ships, but can be fighter and carrier friendly as the NR and they pack a frightful punch on the ground like the EotH.
Ignoring the Kaine jerec combo as heores, i always use the Praetor as an anchoring flagship, two ISD IIs, two VSDIIs, 2 Enforcers, Two Imp Escort Carriers, and two IPVs fleet wise. It's heavy to thrash anything, versatile enough to handle multiple threats and with enough fighters to provide cover and aid.
On the ground the Gunships, Storm Commandoes backed by Hailfires and Floating Fortress with a few squads of PA Enforcers.
They are a great faction and addition to ICW, I'm a little less convinced they will bring the same to the table in Ascendancy as no ground combat and IR basically can encompass them.
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Pentastar has the most enjoyable mix of ground units. Cheap disposable garbage units in abundance to consume enemy rushes, powerful but flawed Hailfires, awesome LAATs and storm commandoes, sensor ping floating fortresses and old-school AT-ATs.
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Indeed
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I don't use the Escort Carriers or Enforcers for most of my fleets (instead I'll go cheap fighter route and have a Venator) and I have 4 IPV's, but otherwise a similar contingent...Praetor II, 2x ISD-II, 2x VSD-II, Venator, 4 IPV's. Early on when I can't afford ISD-II's I'll use Acclimators and VSD-II's instead.
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I really enjoy playing as them and against them. They make life interesting for the early Era IR, which is nice. My fleets are similar to everyone else's, but I generally use only 2 IPVs, and often don't even use ISDs of any type (VSD-2s all the way).
Units I Always Use: Imperial Escort Carrier, Venator/Acclamator, VSD-2 (backbone of any fleet), Praetor (duh), IPV (to guard the Praetor); Hailfire Droid, Floating Fortress, LAAT/i, Storm Commados (to quickly grab LZs/build pads for those pesky IDTs).
Units I don't use: Munificent (just too papery, mostly I bring them in for the Skiprays), AT-AT (I don't need them, everything else has it covered), Pirate Skiffs and AT-APs, AT-PTs (Hailfires do their job, only better).
Roles they are lacking in: None that I can think of; they have a nice mix of weaknesses and strengths.
Ways they feel too much like the IR: Mostly just when I use ISDs; however IMO they are kind of a waste for the PA when I can just field much more effective combat carriers and VSDs instead.
Anything else to mention: The lack of Heroes is always a sad point to me, but I ain't complaining because of how hard it is to find proper heroes that fit with the timeframe. I know I suggested Victor Strang in the past as a means to show how the Storm Commando program made it into the Alignment (retrofitted Venator in space with Hunters, a Storm Commando on the ground). Also <checks to make sure no one is looking> I think the Munificent could be replaced with the Gladiator SD (you all know I really like that ship).
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My only complaint? Skiprays only carried by the Munificent, a unit I otherwise wouldn't use. It's easily the LEAST effective option in its cost/pop range, but Skiprays are one of the better bombers so I end up jumping a couple Munificents in the back just for them.
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You've all made a few suggestions/requests for the Pentastar Alignment in other places, so I decided to consolidate it into one place. All of the other factions have some consistency to them, but the PA doesn't really feel that way at the moment. I'm not saying we're doing any sort of massive overhaul, but I'd like to get some feeback on how everyone who plays with or against them feels about them. So, are there any units you always use? Never use? Any roles they're lacking in? Any areas in which they feel too much like the Remnant? Anything else you want to mention about them?
I always use:
- Venator
- IPV
- Lucrehulk in place of the above two
- Praetor
- Probe Droids
- Hailfire
- A9
- AT-AA
- LAAT/i and Enforcers/Heavy Enforcers
I never use:
- ISD/II
- Imperial Escort Carrier. The Torpedo Immunity helps a little but there are much better carriers. Often the fog of war reveals itself so fast I don't need the Hunters to scout anything.
- Vindicator Cruiser. I use Enforcers and VSDs in its place.
- Munificient. It's nice that their bombers are victory relevant, but 3 pop for two squadrons?
- Jerec on the ground. My hailfires autoshoot any corrupted units, rendering Force Corrupt less useful than I'd like. It's not worth losing half my SSDs.
- Dark Jedi. They live fast and die in vain. Making sure they use their heal ability one at a time requires some pausing on my part. Bastion's income is worth too much to me at the start.
- Skiffs/AT-AP. Pirate vehicles were useless in vanilla. I never went near these.
- TX-130. These guys are able to go super fast. They don't do this enough.
- AT-AT. Slow hailfires that can't turn around and die when they get too far from their support vehicles.
I think the faction has a good deal of redundancy, and the shock trooper role was filled recently. I'd say there are no roles missing.
Their ground to space weapon feels the exact same as the Remnant's. Maybe it is.
I think they're the most fun faction to play as - the heroes are powerful and the economy is strong. I like how challenging they are for EotH and NR campaigns. I like the 'capture these planets, unlock these ships' thing that the Lucrehulk has and I wouldn't mind seeing it on other units. Jerec's ship also forgets that it's an SSD sometimes (you can deploy it very close to other things).
This faction is good.
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Also <checks to make sure no one is looking> I think the Munificent could be replaced with the Gladiator SD (you all know I really like that ship).
*Ahem*
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As useless as the Munificent is, I'd rather have them than the Gladiator...
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I am a huge Sabertank + LAAT user. It's my favorite combo in RAW, and to my absolute and pleasant surprise it works just as well here. The Clone Wars-era units are frighteningly effective (the aforementioned, and then add Halifires). For infantry, Storm Commandos all the way (though a few Enforcer squads should be kept in the reinforcement pool, just in case).
In space, I probably use most of the units available. I usually don't build ISDs because Venators and Victories usually carry enough firepower, but I try, as a matter of principle, to build a diverse army and fleet, which usually includes a couple of almost everything. The one complaint I had (which is now fixed) was the lack of Plex troopers. Now it feels like a real faction.
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Oh yes I forgot about the Dark Jedi: the most useless unit in the game (tied with the Jedi). However, they are really good healer units, so there's that.
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Oh yes I forgot about the Dark Jedi: the most useless unit in the game (tied with the Jedi). However, they are really good healer units, so there's that.
I use them on some of the planets that are difficult to capture and only start you off with 3 reinforcements. You simply run forward with them, their speed allows you to capture AT LEAST 1 additional reinforcement point to bring down enough troops to easily conquer the planet. Other than that, yeah, definitely useless.
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In my own games I brought their deflection cone up to what the hero Jedi have. It didn't make them that much more powerful (only applies to blasters, for one, so they still bite it against artillery or rocket tanks) but it meant they were slightly more likely to close in on infantry or light tanks and go to work.
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To be fair with a very few exceptions most Dark Jedi were taught scraps and were on average little more gifted than agricorps workers.
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And those that were powerful were attacked en-masse by plot bunnies on a regular basis.
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And those that were powerful were attacked en-masse by plot bunnies on a regular basis.
Ah yes the God of Dues ex machina favors the heroes it seems
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I like Thuellai's idea, and perhaps adding a couple more projectile types to what can be deflected. This is not an infantryman's game, but come on. They're Jedi. Jedi should not be useless (or useful only as healers). That's just my opinion, of course.
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Well i do find it odd that Dark jedi have heal and not a more evil power...
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I would honestly like to see something more unique to them. Like maybe more of the slapdash ships they had and say if they survive the 3rd era that they pick up alot of the IR units like say the TIE Drones. as the one thing with teh alignment they never let anything go on the scrapheap, and maybe introduceing Pellaeon?
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I would honestly like to see something more unique to them. Like maybe more of the slapdash ships they had and say if they survive the 3rd era that they pick up alot of the IR units like say the TIE Drones. as the one thing with teh alignment they never let anything go on the scrapheap, and maybe introduceing Pellaeon?
Pellaeon is a hero already for the IR in 2 different eras.
Unless of course you mean Pellaeon Star Destroyer, in which case you're talking about a ship designed something like 80 years after the end of this mods timeframe.
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I like the way that PA is a "Galact Republic" in the Imperial stage...
and they have the best Frigate Factory(you don't need to wait too long to kill it)
but the problems are:
-Land Sucks: ok that it should happens because of the old tech, but some units are much underpowered, or overpowered:
the AT-AP insted of being a Anti-vehicle unit, its don't have the fire power to kill inf;
the Swap Speeder is the best anti-inf unit, I think that a bit less DPS and HP would be very good for other factions
-Space is very OP, from early to late Game:
well you get two SSD, and can make more and more Praetors
the Reaper is the SSD that you should start w/, and the Vengeance should be a buildable one;
EDIT: can you put the AT-ET for them, a bit worst against vehicles than a AT-AT, but more like a Mult-Role Siege Unit
EDIT2: Munificents should get at least a Fighters squad
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I like the way that PA is a "Galact Republic" in the Imperial stage...
and they have the best Frigate Factory(you don't need to wait too long to kill it)
but the problems are:
-Land Sucks: ok that it should happens because of the old tech, but some units are much underpowered, or overpowered:
the AT-AP insted of being a Anti-vehicle unit, its don't have the fire power to kill inf;
the Swap Speeder is the best anti-inf unit, I think that a bit less DPS and HP would be very good for other factions
-Space is very OP, from early to late Game:
well you get two SSD, and can make more and more Praetors
the Reaper is the SSD that you should start w/, and the Vengeance should be a buildable one;
EDIT: can you put the AT-ET for them, a bit worst against vehicles than a AT-AT, but more like a Mult-Role Siege Unit
EDIT2: Munificents should get at least a Fighters squad
Perhaps I can address some of these concerns,
As to the republic aspect, many older ships were allocated to the Outer Rim for service as newer models came online in core, inner and mid rims. Ground was the same way, while I do feel the Hailfires are a bit OP, they also have high cost and no defense against air as a balance and are fragile to turbos. I feel the PA is decently balanced on Land as their units allow for tailored gameplay, IE, you like heavy slower attack, they have options, as do fast and cheap. They are a middle ground or sampling of IR and NR strategies.
Space, yes giving two SSDs free to boot is pretty impressive firepower, however those ships are heroes and cannot be replaced, thus causing a need for care of them as unlike the IR they can't just build new ones. The Praetors are powerful but very vulnerable to bombers and more maneuverable ships and are also quite expensive as a balance. As Jerec was allied with the PA from the beginning and had his SSD before that it makes little sense to have the Vengeance buildable.
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It would be quite good if they could salvage units and ships
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Perhaps I can address some of these concerns,
As to the republic aspect, many older ships were allocated to the Outer Rim for service as newer models came online in core, inner and mid rims. Ground was the same way, while I do feel the Hailfires are a bit OP, they also have high cost and no defense against air as a balance and are fragile to turbos. I feel the PA is decently balanced on Land as their units allow for tailored gameplay, IE, you like heavy slower attack, they have options, as do fast and cheap. They are a middle ground or sampling of IR and NR strategies.
Space, yes giving two SSDs free to boot is pretty impressive firepower, however those ships are heroes and cannot be replaced, thus causing a need for care of them as unlike the IR they can't just build new ones. The Praetors are powerful but very vulnerable to bombers and more maneuverable ships and are also quite expensive as a balance. As Jerec was allied with the PA from the beginning and had his SSD before that it makes little sense to have the Vengeance buildable.
but, while they have some units like Hailfires, they have some useless units like the AT-AP and the "Pirate" skif for example...
I just calling for a better balance for those units:
the AT-AP could get a better anti-vehicle damage, and the skif could get a bunch of troopers that could fire
In Space they get two hero SSD... of course you will not be able to re-build them if you lose them, but you can use both to get a bunch of planets, because no fleet will be able to destroy them.
for Praetors, while they are very vulnerable to bombers, if you just throw some IPV's w/ they will be unstoppable
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but, while they have some units like Hailfires, they have some useless units like the AT-AP and the "Pirate" skif for example...
I just calling for a better balance for those units:
the AT-AP could get a better anti-vehicle damage, and the skif could get a bunch of troopers that could fire
In Space they get two hero SSD... of course you will not be able to re-build them if you lose them, but you can use both to get a bunch of planets, because no fleet will be able to destroy them.
for Praetors, while they are very vulnerable to bombers, if you just throw some IPV's w/ they will be unstoppable
Not the case. In space, if anything, the PA is the least overpowered. The Praetor is inferior to the Phalanx and the IR also gets the Praetor in Era3, and SSD's in almost every other Era. The EoTH fighters/bombers are also superior for the most part to the PA fighter/bombers. And the NR is far, far superior. Yes, the PA is powerful with the Praetors, but NR can easily counter a Praetor + IPV's. It's all down to unit selection. Yeah, if you send all Quasar carriers, the Praetor + IPV's is going to eat it. But a few BAC's + Sacheens + MC90, and the IPV's get shredded by the BAC's which have enough shielding to withstand the short time within range of the Praetor, then they retreat being MUCH faster than the Praetor while all the bombers bend the Praetor over the table and make it cry like a little girl that just dropped her ice cream cone on the ground.
While this mod isn't designed around everyone having a DIRECT counter to every other ship like some games (Star Wars Rebellion), the various groups have been very well balanced and for the most part are quite competitive with each other.
On the ground, yes, the PA has useless units. Just don't build them. Just ignore them. They're incredibly versatile without needing those units. I dare say on the ground the PA is actually the MOST versatile of all the factions. It is, IMO, what makes them fun, because on the ground they're so very different from the IR because of the A9 and Hailfires, however with the AT-AT they can if you choose emulate the IR.
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Indeed, well said
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Apparently I am the only one who uses the AT-AP and the skiff, I just find the funny to use and they make a good job as ground garrison if used correctly, I once destroy an AT-AT with a skiff, just stay behind it and let it shoot hahahah
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Apparently I am the only one who uses the AT-AP and the skiff, I just find the funny to use and they make a good job as ground garrison if used correctly, I once destroy an AT-AT with a skiff, just stay behind it and let it shoot hahahah
I prefer the IFT-X for garrison. Fast enough that you can do the same thing, constantly staying behind the AT-AT, but has shielding in case the AT-AT does get in a lucky shot. 2 squads of IFT-X, AT-AA's, a Hailfire, and Enforcers make for a very effective garrison.
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I prefer the IFT-X for garrison. Fast enough that you can do the same thing, constantly staying behind the AT-AT, but has shielding in case the AT-AT does get in a lucky shot. 2 squads of IFT-X, AT-AA's, a Hailfire, and Enforcers make for a very effective garrison.
Don't forget Century Tanks if you are making a garrison. They are AMAZING and cheap, pack a wallop, and are equally effective against Infantry, Vehicles, and air units.
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Don't forget Century Tanks if you are making a garrison. They are AMAZING and cheap, pack a wallop, and are equally effective against Infantry, Vehicles, and air units.
Tis also true. They form a backbone of all my ground units, attacking or defense. Cheap enough that it doesn't matter if you lose a few squads.
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can PA colors be a bit more bright, its a bit hard to see them on Galact Map
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Would like it if more of their units had the PA symbol emblazoned upon them
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Would like it if more of their units had the PA symbol emblazoned upon them
I second this notion.
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Shiny new decals for everybody!
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Just need to make sure to avoid getting them scuffed up from hitting pieces of space fish.
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Indeed
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Something that I'd point out is the fact that during the PA era, even before Kaine died, he was forced to allow non-Human beings to enlist in the Imperial Military -- something that had been arguably taboo. The PA couldn't afford to be picky since it drastically needed skilled beings to throw inside of armor and behind blasters. To reflect this fact, and the influence that such men as Thrawn and Paelleon had on the PA, I'd appreciate seeing a non-human PA infantry unit. There's a well known picture of a Talz in stormtrooper armor, dating supposedly from near the Fel Empire era, but is not far off from what would have been seen during the middle of the early PA era.
So maybe a non-human infantry unit (Talz or some other?) that is armed with normal blaster rifles but has increased health?
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While that would be neat visually what would it add gameplay wise that isnt already there?
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With all sides played I defo like PA most. It's most balanced of all, without possibility to spam fighters. I love EoH for obvious reason, but after initial problems with keeping the line when I get access to Furions, there is nothing AI can do to defeat me. Too easy.
What I would like to see is a tiny bit of variety in ships for PA. Tector in Era 4 and 5. Perhaps build-able Executor at Era 5.
As for planets. Bastion should really become a Bastion. It's just normal planet without anything special in space.
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With all sides played I defo like PA most. It's most balanced of all, without possibility to spam fighters. I love EoH for obvious reason, but after initial problems with keeping the line when I get access to Furions, there is nothing AI can do to defeat me. Too easy.
What I would like to see is a tiny bit of variety in ships for PA. Tector in Era 4 and 5. Perhaps build-able Executor at Era 5.
As for planets. Bastion should really become a Bastion. It's just normal planet without anything special in space.
The PA never built executors like the ir. They already have possibly the most diverse unit list in space.
I sort of agree about Bastion but it already has build slots for 4 golans(two IIs and two IIIs respectively) and a medium shipyard. If you add in that kaine, jerec and grant spawn there and you build a hypervelocity gun Bastion is right up there with Kuat, Fondor, Dathomir, Bilbringi, Mon Calamiri and Yaga Minor on fortress level. Also has good ground defense and loyal population, theres really not much mote you could add to it
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Hmm I understand your point of view, but two reason why they didn't built them were lack of time and resources. It's simple logic, not rigid "canon". If PA hold 3/4 of the galaxy hostage (including Kuat) I think, I have plenty of time and resources to commence building program for at least one SSD or few Tectors, don't you agree. ;)
Perhaps limit building SSD/Tector only to Kuat? All sides get really fun boats with each Era. PA is stuck with same gear from start to finish (not that it's useless gear, just lack improvements over Era 1).
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Well thats possible but how did Delvardus have the resources to build Night Hammer? The PA had much more territoryand resources than him as well as Yaga Minor shipyard. I think they just never decided the ssds were feasible to mass produce so they never tried.
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Well thats possible but how did Delvardus have the resources to build Night Hammer? The PA had much more territoryand resources than him as well as Yaga Minor shipyard. I think they just never decided the ssds were feasible to mass produce so they never tried.
When did Delvardus start building the Night Hammer? He controlled the Sluis Van shipyards and a large stretch of the Rimma Trade Route, so he certainly had the financial and practical means to build the Night Hammer before he was forced to retreat to Deep Core.
Perhaps the fate of Delvardus shows why PA was better off building Enforcers instead of mass-producing Vengeance SSDs and Tectors. Delvardus got whacked by a bunch of Neb Bs and was forced to abandon his holdings, while the Alignment endured.
IMHO the biggest drawback of building SSDs or super-weapons is not the financial constraint, but the fact that they are vulnerable to sabotage and enemy raids before completion and thus tie up a large portion of your fleet and intelligence assets for the sole purpose of protecting the damn thing, reducing your strategic options and leaving other star systems inadequately defended.
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Same drawbacks for the Germans in WWII with their tanks. To long to build, too expensive and rresource intensive and unable to produce as many
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Honestly, I LIKE the fact that the PA doesn't build SSD's. It's nice to have a couple to help counter the IR's, but I like that they can't build any.
I would love to see them get more technology changes since they were still around in canon until Era 4 or 5 (can't remember which, but I know they still existed after Shadow Hand.).
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With all sides played I defo like PA most. It's most balanced of all, without possibility to spam fighters. I love EoH for obvious reason, but after initial problems with keeping the line when I get access to Furions, there is nothing AI can do to defeat me. Too easy.
What I would like to see is a tiny bit of variety in ships for PA. Tector in Era 4 and 5. Perhaps build-able Executor at Era 5.
As for planets. Bastion should really become a Bastion. It's just normal planet without anything special in space.
Bastion's advantages are in its ground map. It can be defended in a way to overcome all but a serious invasion.
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Part of the problem with giving them new units as the eras go on was also that we can't remove units as the eras go one, since they can't have their own story scripts. Part of why I'm asking what units people don't use is that we can then remove the redundant roles, and try to give them new stuff as the eras go on without having a full bar from the start.
This, mind you, is without wanting to just copy-paste the Imperial unit list. If we were to just throw a bunch of the base IR units at them, you may as well just play the Remnant.
-Space is very OP, from early to late Game:
well you get two SSD, and can make more and more Praetors
the Reaper is the SSD that you should start w/, and the Vengeance should be a buildable one;
Part of this is because their starting position is kind of tenuous, and they need it to be able to gain a foothold. Venators and VSDs make up a considerable part of their forces, and they aren't very powerful. Canonically, having Vengance be something you don't start with and have to instead build wouldn't work very well. We had to stretch the timeline forward to include it, since it was last seen about a year before the mod starts. Also, considering they have so few heroes, making them have to build on would be a pretty considerable detriment.
The Praetor is inferior to the Phalanx
This won't be true once the EotH gets the Vanguard/maybe Gilzean.
can PA colors be a bit more bright, its a bit hard to see them on Galact Map
I can try playing around with it, but they're as dark as they are because they need to be distinguishable from the Empire of the Hand. We used to have another blue faction that was lighter, and it was really hard to tell which was which sometimes.
Something that I'd point out is the fact that during the PA era, even before Kaine died, he was forced to allow non-Human beings to enlist in the Imperial Military -- something that had been arguably taboo. The PA couldn't afford to be picky since it drastically needed skilled beings to throw inside of armor and behind blasters. To reflect this fact, and the influence that such men as Thrawn and Paelleon had on the PA, I'd appreciate seeing a non-human PA infantry unit. There's a well known picture of a Talz in stormtrooper armor, dating supposedly from near the Fel Empire era, but is not far off from what would have been seen during the middle of the early PA era.
So maybe a non-human infantry unit (Talz or some other?) that is armed with normal blaster rifles but has increased health?
The PA already has both Enforcers and Stormtroopers, there's not really much other room there. There's also no specific species that would work.
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I can try playing around with it, but they're as dark as they are because they need to be distinguishable from the Empire of the Hand. We used to have another blue faction that was lighter, and it was really hard to tell which was which sometimes.
While Pentastar galactic mode colors could indeed be a bit brighter, it works the opposite way in tactical battles: using a darker shade of blue makes many ground units less cartoonish and darker blue also meshes very nicely with star destroyer-gray in space.
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Logos I say!
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Logos I say!
They would make it easier to identify them, although considering most of their space vessels make use of the "variant of xxx", not sure if it would be possible.
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Possibly
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It's possible, but it would mean every PA unit needs a separate model and texture.
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I actually like the idea of allowing the PA to build Executors in Era 5. For one, the PA really didn't exist anymore by the point in the timeline that Era 5 reflects, so arguing as to what they had canonically doesn't really apply - had plot bunnies not been so prolific, they very well might have been building new SSDs by then (as has been mentioned, the Night Hammer was being built well before this). For two, at this point in the game the main enemy for the PA is usually the NR, since era advances tend to coincide with IR losses - and the NR fleet at this point is, in my opinion, fairly superior to the PA's, and if the PA loses Jerec and Kaine it really can't compete that well in a large space battle (excepting AI flaws), given the Praetor's being relatively weak in the power-CP ratio and the NR's New Class ships and fighters. The Era 5 NR fleet (and EotH fleet, now that I remember them) is absolutely capable of handling SSDs - giving them to the PA won't unbalance them, and would instead feel like a reward to PA players for managing to reach Era 5 in the bigger campaigns.
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It's possible, but it would mean every PA unit needs a separate model and texture.
Ah so more work?
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I actually like the idea of allowing the PA to build Executors in Era 5. For one, the PA really didn't exist anymore by the point in the timeline that Era 5 reflects, so arguing as to what they had canonically doesn't really apply - had plot bunnies not been so prolific, they very well might have been building new SSDs by then (as has been mentioned, the Night Hammer was being built well before this). For two, at this point in the game the main enemy for the PA is usually the NR, since era advances tend to coincide with IR losses - and the NR fleet at this point is, in my opinion, fairly superior to the PA's, and if the PA loses Jerec and Kaine it really can't compete that well in a large space battle (excepting AI flaws), given the Praetor's being relatively weak in the power-CP ratio and the NR's New Class ships and fighters. The Era 5 NR fleet (and EotH fleet, now that I remember them) is absolutely capable of handling SSDs - giving them to the PA won't unbalance them, and would instead feel like a reward to PA players for managing to reach Era 5 in the bigger campaigns.
While I agree in concept, the thing is if you're playing as the NR, the PA will probably have been wiped out by Era5 since it's kinda weak starting location. If you're playing AS the PA, most likely you've conquered so much of the galaxy at this point that there'd be no REAL need for it.
Yes, I agree that since in canon they didn't even exist would make it so that they'd make some sense to have. However, if we're going to give them an SSD, give them the ability to build a Sovereign IMO. I like the looks better.
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I actually like the idea of allowing the PA to build Executors in Era 5.
It would be a good idea. However, this is not possible. The PA can't have story scripts.
By the way, is that restriction only because the game engine can support three factions' worth of scripts, or something else?
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LEt me just clarify here; there's a difference between tech level requirements to unlock a unit, and story scripts. Tech level requirements are done in the unit's code, so that's not a big deal. We can require any PA unit to be at whatever tech level we want, and since one of the things you can do in another faction's story script is set any faction's tech level, we're able to make them advance tech levels (we usually just piggyback them on the NR's story script, it's also how we get them to have the same intros as the other factions).
Story scripts are what you need to lock a unit, spawn a hero, remove a hero, and a bunch of other stuff I won't get into. Story scripts are set for each faction in the GC's code. They are attributed with these lines:
<Rebel_Story_Name>Conquests\ArtofWar\Story_Plots_Sandbox_56_Rebel_AI.xml</Rebel_Story_Name>
<Empire_Story_Name>Conquests\ArtofWar\Story_Plots_Sandbox_56_Empire.xml</Empire_Story_Name>
<Underworld_Story_Name>Conquests\ArtofWar\Story_Plots_Sandbox_56_Underworld_AI.xml</Underworld_Story_Name>
And there's no way around that. It's potentially possible to piggyback even more on the other factions with some form of a LUA script to do the other stuff, but that's pretty unlikely.
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Hi all, my name is Adorician, and I'm a PA addict. No, seriously. PA is my absolute, hands down favorite faction in this mod.
I really don't feel that any units need to be removed, as I can simply choose to not build them. I think it would be better to just leave the lesser-used units in the game for those who like them.
As other people have said, the PA is a very well balanced faction, and I really don't see a huge area for improvement. But there a few things that do come to mind.
1. It would be really, really nice if the AT-AA's *weren't* one of the PA's slowest ground units, or if the PA had a faster unit with AA capability that wasn't a glass cannon when going up against air units.
2. I have felt at times that having all of the PA's space and ground units potentially available in era 1 can be a bit of a weakness, as the other factions get new (and at times better) units every era, while PA players are forced to adapt using increasingly outdated units. So naturally, I like the idea of being able to scoop up the cast-off projects of the IR as the eras advance. Or perhaps there would be a way to implement the tech steal function that some of the factions have in the base game, but limit it to a few uses, or even types of units as well? That way, PA players can get new units that could shake up or reinforce their play style, while at the same time forcing them to be smart about it?
4. The last thing on my wish list may not be feasible, but hey, why not say it. There are plenty of times in the canon (I guess we need to say "Star Wars: Legends continuity" now... still pisses me off) where factions capture capital ships of other factions, i.e. Booster Terrek and Rogue Squadron capturing the Errant Venture, the NR capturing the Lusankya, the Rebellion taking the Tyrant (aka Rebel Dream), which was then retaken by the IR, until it was again captured by the NR... I can go on. I'd love to see a feature implemented across all factions where you can capture (permanently, unless captured by another faction) enemy ships, and maybe even ground units. Obviously, this would need to be an ability that is either very expensive or has a very long CD, to prevent people from doing nothing but capturing enemy units.
This would answer all of the "PA doesn't have enough SSD's" complaints, and would negate the need for adding new PA units, as you can just capture them. However, I realize that this would result in a significant amount of work, and is probably not feasible. I can dream, can't I?
Lastly, PA survival mode. Please? Pretty please?
Edit: would also be nice if PA showed up in those faction summary graphs...
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I really don't feel that any units need to be removed, as I can simply choose to not build them. I think it would be better to just leave the lesser-used units in the game for those who like them.
2. I have felt at times that having all of the PA's space and ground units potentially available in era 1 can be a bit of a weakness, as the other factions get new (and at times better) units every era, while PA players are forced to adapt using increasingly outdated units. So naturally, I like the idea of being able to scoop up the cast-off projects of the IR as the eras advance.
That's why I brought up the notion of removing certain less-useful units. People never like it when stuff gets cut, but like I said, we can't remove anything as they progress because of engine limitations, so any units we did give them as they progress would just get forced off the build bar, so room has to be made.
Or perhaps there would be a way to implement the tech steal function that some of the factions have in the base game, but limit it to a few uses, or even types of units as well? That way, PA players can get new units that could shake up or reinforce their play style, while at the same time forcing them to be smart about it?
Ingame, this wouldn't really make sense; why would the Pentastar have a different metric for progression than the other factions? They wouldn't need to steal schematics like the Rebels did (which gets especially weird when they're doing it from the NR or EotH primarily, as their usual neighbours). It would even give them progression in non-progressive GCs.The issue with their progression isn't finding a way to do it, it's what to actually give them. Slicing tech stuff doesn't give you any control over what they can get where, so it's not really forcing you to be smart about anything. You can just immediately go to any of the nearest enemy planets and unlock whatever design you want.
Technically, they're the most problematic faction for this to be done for, since I'm not sure if the basic mechanics would even work for a fourth faction, and it really only works with story scripting in the first place. Also, keep in mind heroes don't respawn in the mod, which is an issue considering that slicing kills them.
4. The last thing on my wish list may not be feasible, but hey, why not say it. There are plenty of times in the canon (I guess we need to say "Star Wars: Legends continuity" now... still pisses me off) where factions capture capital ships of other factions, i.e. Booster Terrek and Rogue Squadron capturing the Errant Venture, the NR capturing the Lusankya, the Rebellion taking the Tyrant (aka Rebel Dream), which was then retaken by the IR, until it was again captured by the NR... I can go on. I'd love to see a feature implemented across all factions where you can capture (permanently, unless captured by another faction) enemy ships, and maybe even ground units. Obviously, this would need to be an ability that is either very expensive or has a very long CD, to prevent people from doing nothing but capturing enemy units.
This would again go more towards finding a different way for them to progress without actually solving the issue of what to give them as they progress. We're specifically looking to not make them just a dumping ground for units already available to the other factions, and this is pretty much the exact opposite of that, since their means of staying relevant would just be taking ships from the other factions. As far as feasiblility in the engine, it really isn't. You can convert units to a different faction through LUA scripting, but the game can only pass one variable from a battle to the galaxy map (meaning it can be used at most once) and there would have to be an aspect of story scripting to it, which cannot be done with the Pentastar Alignment.
Lastly, PA survival mode. Please? Pretty please?
Probably in the next version. We have to make sure it can actually work.
Edit: would also be nice if PA showed up in those faction summary graphs... (http://Edit: would also be nice if PA showed up in those faction summary graphs...)
Those graphs are unfortunately hardcoded. We can't change them.
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Not the case. In space, if anything, the PA is the least overpowered. The Praetor is inferior to the Phalanx and the IR also gets the Praetor in Era3, and SSD's in almost every other Era. The EoTH fighters/bombers are also superior for the most part to the PA fighter/bombers. And the NR is far, far superior. Yes, the PA is powerful with the Praetors, but NR can easily counter a Praetor + IPV's. It's all down to unit selection. Yeah, if you send all Quasar carriers, the Praetor + IPV's is going to eat it. But a few BAC's + Sacheens + MC90, and the IPV's get shredded by the BAC's which have enough shielding to withstand the short time within range of the Praetor, then they retreat being MUCH faster than the Praetor while all the bombers bend the Praetor over the table and make it cry like a little girl that just dropped her ice cream cone on the ground.
But, most of the times you will go agains PA in first or second era, so you will not have the MC-90 to throw at them...
the problem w/ Praetors are:
-Their huge range... for a "dreadnought"(good weapons and shields)... so you can "kite" the enemy(especially AI), because it cost is very balanced
-AI can spawn they... of course for a multiplayer this would not be really a Problem!
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I can try playing around with it, but they're as dark as they are because they need to be distinguishable from the Empire of the Hand. We used to have another blue faction that was lighter, and it was really hard to tell which was which sometimes.
and if you put a very light blue for one and a "Basic Blue" for the other.
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only thing i hate about the pa is you cant make fighters like the tie hunter why not? you should be able to make some fighters especially to counter nr and the eoth i wonder tho i asked Corey if he will add shadow droids but i guess they go to the ir not the pa :(
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While I agree in concept, the thing is if you're playing as the NR, the PA will probably have been wiped out by Era5 since it's kinda weak starting location. If you're playing AS the PA, most likely you've conquered so much of the galaxy at this point that there'd be no REAL need for it.
Yes, I agree that since in canon they didn't even exist would make it so that they'd make some sense to have. However, if we're going to give them an SSD, give them the ability to build a Sovereign IMO. I like the looks better.
My current ICW game as the NR disagrees with you. ;) Granted, I'm not in Era 5 yet, but the IR's been the focus of most of my efforts, since the PA's got fewer routes into my territory and I've got them heavily fortified and holding the PA at bay (killed Jerec on the ground, Kaine's always had too strong a fleet with him). I'm in Era 3 currently, and the PA's got plenty of planets - we're somewhat splitting the IR between us, it seems.
And since nobody ever builds any Sovereigns outside of Shadow Hand, I tend to think that the plans were lost after that campaign... but I also don't mind the idea that a resurgent PA might have found them again. ;D
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The PA is weak to start off but if you fortify and use your SSDs and fleets defensively after taking Bilbringi, Ciutric, Ithor, Ord Mantell and Generis you can make bastion of defence
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The PA is weak to start off but if you fortify and use your SSDs and fleets defensively after taking Bilbringi, Ciutric, Ithor, Ord Mantell and Generis you can make bastion of defence
Very true, and probably the strategy almost all of us use. However, the AI rarely does, so it's surprising to see the AI survive as the PA. Most of the time in my experience the AI as the PA doesn't survive long.
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Bastions can be useful but does the PA need two?
E:
Sometimes as the IR I take down Zsinj and the Corporate Sector really early (I like to live dangerously). This creates a buffer between the PA and NR, maintaining a balance of power that is critical for an easy win.
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I think the IPV-1 is too small. it's so small, in fact, that it becomes hard to see in the middle of combat. On many occasion, I have trouble even finding the thing in some space battles. And since the IPV-1 is the only anti-fighter frigate the Alignment has, that's a real problem for me.
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If your having trouble finding them just CTRL + A which selects all units (not structures) in the battle and as long as they haven't been killed they will be in with the rest of your fleet.
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If your having trouble finding them just CTRL + A which selects all units (not structures) in the battle and as long as they haven't been killed they will be in with the rest of your fleet.
I did not know that! Thanks a lot, man; that's really helpful!
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In my honest opinion the pentastar alignment needs so more fire power on land every battle with them ends in a sluaghter
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In my honest opinion the pentastar alignment needs so more fire power on land every battle with them ends in a sluaghter
Huh? Pentastar is easily the most powerful of the factions on land.
A9 Floating Fortress offers good armor with the ping ability so you can call bombing strikes
Hailfire is the most versatile artillery unit since it doesn't require deploying/stowing
AT-AT is the AT-AT
IFT-X is FAST, great for quick strikes
Century Tank is super cheap, and good against a whole host of units, decimating infantry but with it's light turbolaser also being useful against armor
Dark Jedi are super fast, can run around capturing reinforcement points easily
Laat/i are fairly quick, and deliver a pretty good punch
Their greatest strength is on the land. IMO, if anything, they're slightly overpowered compared to the IR and NR, although the EoTH is a VERY good match for them.
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Huh? Pentastar is easily the most powerful of the factions on land.
A9 Floating Fortress offers good armor with the ping ability so you can call bombing strikes
Hailfire is the most versatile artillery unit since it doesn't require deploying/stowing
AT-AT is the AT-AT
IFT-X is FAST, great for quick strikes
Century Tank is super cheap, and good against a whole host of units, decimating infantry but with it's light turbolaser also being useful against armor
Dark Jedi are super fast, can run around capturing reinforcement points easily
Laat/i are fairly quick, and deliver a pretty good punch
Their greatest strength is on the land. IMO, if anything, they're slightly overpowered compared to the IR and NR, although the EoTH is a VERY good match for them.
Definitely agree here. The PA if used properly is ridiculously easy on land. If you're having trouble with them, a good starting list is as follows: drop in either Storm Commandos or Dark Jedi first, and send them to capture RPs. With your population points bring in these units in this order: Hailfire, Floating Fortress, Infantry, LAAT/i, Hailfire, IFT-X, Infantry, infantry, infantry. This is the "brute force" method of PA plays that is heavily infantry dependent. The only units you should be losing in these confrontations is infantry. As you figure out how to use the "PA Core" of Hailfire, LAAT/i, Floating Fortress to prevent uneccessary casualties, start replacing infantry with TIE Crawlers, and cut out the second load of Hailfires (replace with either LAAT, Century or IFT-X depending on the circumstances).
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I think a good way to make the PA more distinctive from the IR would be to make their ISDs different from the IR's, as well as other units they have in common with other factions.
That would probably require a lot of xml editing, but it seems justified as each faction has its own philosophy of war. They may have some of the same ships, but those are not included in the same fleets or used in the same way, and that could transpire in gameplay. In addition, the PA being already reusing old Clone Wars ships and pirates ones, them having customized Imperial destroyers doesn't seem out of place in my opinion.
In do not know much about their original differences in canon, but a few examples might be : fleets made to raid enemy planets rather than occupying them, resulting in faster engines leaving space for smaller shield generators ; less seasoned crews but newer turbolasers, thus less shots fired per second but more powerful ones ; etc.
That way, there is no need to change the tech trees or models, but they become more of a faction of their own and less of a mix of other factions.
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I think a good way to make the PA more distinctive from the IR would be to make their ISDs different from the IR's, as well as other units they have in common with other factions.
That would probably require a lot of xml editing, but it seems justified as each faction has its own philosophy of war. They may have some of the same ships, but those are not included in the same fleets or used in the same way, and that could transpire in gameplay. In addition, the PA being already reusing old Clone Wars ships and pirates ones, them having customized Imperial destroyers doesn't seem out of place in my opinion.
In do not know much about their original differences in canon, but a few examples might be : fleets made to raid enemy planets rather than occupying them, resulting in faster engines leaving space for smaller shield generators ; less seasoned crews but newer turbolasers, thus less shots fired per second but more powerful ones ; etc.
That way, there is no need to change the tech trees or models, but they become more of a faction of their own and less of a mix of other factions.
Matter of fact, I've personally added a Pentastar-specific ISD variant that replaces the ISD I in addition to ISD II being restricted to Core and Mid Rim shipyards only. The new Pentastar ISD comes with some ISD I characteristics, mainly the ion cannon complement, but upgrades the main guns to octuples. However, they also have the same poor shield refresh value that my ISD IIs have(not the Thrawn's Revenge ISD IIs) from selling out on firepower over shields. The result is an ISD that is considerably more powerful as an anti-capital destroyer than either of the standard ISD models, but due to ion cannons and poor shield refresh value is seriously vulnerable to frigate and torpedo-heavy fleet compositions and can't really stand for long in prolonged combat.
Note that in-universe the Alignment was playing catch-up to mainstream Empire and NR in military build-up and was very possibly placed under military-equipment embargo by both. Thus ISD upgrades would have been hard to achieve for Pentastar Alignment and it makes sense for them to come up with a makeshift solution.
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Matter of fact, I've personally added a Pentastar-specific ISD variant that replaces the ISD I in addition to ISD II being restricted to Core and Mid Rim shipyards only. The new Pentastar ISD comes with some ISD I characteristics, mainly the ion cannon complement, but upgrades the main guns to octuples. However, they also have the same poor shield refresh value that my ISD IIs have(not the Thrawn's Revenge ISD IIs) from selling out on firepower over shields. The result is an ISD that is considerably more powerful as an anti-capital destroyer than either of the standard ISD models, but due to ion cannons and poor shield refresh value is seriously vulnerable to frigate and torpedo-heavy fleet compositions and can't really stand for long in prolonged combat.
Note that in-universe the Alignment was playing catch-up to mainstream Empire and NR in military build-up and was very possibly placed under military-equipment embargo by both. Thus ISD upgrades would have been hard to achieve for Pentastar Alignment and it makes sense for them to come up with a makeshift solution.
IMO, the problem with that is that the PA ships WERE IR ships until Kaine declared neutrality. They were normal ships of the line for the Empire until the formation of the Alignment. While having them be so "generic" might not make them feel different, IMO, they SHOULDN'T feel drastically different. Since other than being located in an area that mostly got older technology due to it being of less strategic importance, they were normal imperial vessels.
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Note that in-universe the Alignment was playing catch-up to mainstream Empire and NR in military build-up and was very possibly placed under military-equipment embargo by both.
I don't think this is actually true. The NR and PA just ignored each other most of the time, and their relationship with most of the other Imperial leaders was fine. They were on pretty even footing, and definitely "friendly" terms with most other Imperial groups. Definitely not under any sort of embargo, considering they were allied with/contributed to Thrawn's Confederation and were an integral part of Palpatine's navy. After reunification, they were probably the only significant group of Imperials left, hence why the "Imperial Remnant" after Daala and Pellaeon reformed it, centered around Pentastar Territory, and why the former Pentastar flagship was taken as the flagship of the entire reunited Imperial navy.
I think a good way to make the PA more distinctive from the IR would be to make their ISDs different from the IR's, as well as other units they have in common with other factions.
There's a few very significant things I think you're misunderstanding about the purpose the Pentastar Alignment serves, both in game and in canon. The reason the Pentastar Alignment looks and feels like the Empire to some extent is because they ARE the Empire. The Imperial Remnant and Pentastar Alignment are two sides of the same coin. By all rights, they could and to some extent should have the exact same unit list, but the canonical Imperial ship and vehicle rosters are so extensive that ingame we can only put so many of them, so we decided that ships which would more commonly be found on the outer rim should be put with the PA, whereas more regular ships would be focused on the "Imperial Remnant"
This is exactly why this is false:
them having customized Imperial destroyers doesn't seem out of place in my opinion.
They had the exact same ships pulled from the exact same fleet as the Empire because they ARE the Empire. They weren't raiders, they didn't rely on hit and run tactics. Again if we were to represent everything perfectly, their ship rosters would be pretty much identical. There is one instance where they did make a custom version of an Imperial design, when they built the Enforcer-class variant of the Vindicator/Immobilizer line. However, they did not and would not have made a new version of the ISD. Those ISDs, like I said, became the core of the reunited Imperial fleet. The Imperial Remnant you're playing as in Eras 3, 4, and 5? That's pretty much 30, 50 and 75% Pentastar, respectively. IT would be very much out of place.
Although we've given them a few points of difference in how they play compared to the "Imperial Remnant," mainly based around fighters, in order to have at least some differences their main role in the game is to be another Imperial splinter faction to represent the deep divides in the Empire and to fill that sector of space as politically accurately as possible. Before we put in the Alignment as its own thing, it was filled with more Warlord planets, usually. If you were able to have multiple instances of the same faction in EaW like you can in Sins, they would (along with the Warlords) just be grouped as part of and spawned as another instance of the Imperial Remnant faction, exactly how we're handling it in Ascendancy. If you look at any place we've explained why we're not doing the PA in Ascendancy, we've said exactly this. Faction differentiation as far as military playstyles go is meant to be a thing between Imperials, the New Republic, and the Empire of the Hand. In Imperial Civil War, Imperials includes the Imperial Remnant, the Warlords and Pentastar Alignment, since they're in different places and to do that we needed to have different faction entires. In Ascendancy, Imperials just means the Imperial Remnant which represents the Ruling Council (the best term I can think of to refer to what ICW call's the "Imperial Remnant"), the Pentastar Alignment, Warlord Zsinj, Greater Maldrood, the Eriadu Authority, the Deep Core Warlords, etc because they're not tied to specific heroes or planet ownershipss like factions in EaW, and those are the two areas where these factions are significantly different.
TL;DR
The Pentastar Alignment feels like the Empire because it is the Empire, and that's how it should be. They exist as an entity because part of the goal of the Galactic Conquest mode is to represent and allow you to play through how the Star Wars galaxy was divided, much like a Total War game, and for that to be possible, you need to have a separately coded faction. We took that as an opportunity to explore more of the in-universe Empire's ridiculously expansive unit list, and divided that based on a few themes in order to give them some differences, not because they actually followed different military philosophies. Their ISDs are the same because they have no reason to be different, and the ISDs you used as the Remnant in the later eras are already the exact same ISDs as you use as the PA (meaning the specific instances, not just the class)
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Honestly, I don't think the PA needs anything added to feel different from the IR - in every GC I've played as them, it's a very different game. Your fleet compositions are different (limited SSDs, frigate/carrier complement very different), your armies are different (greater emphasis on air power and mobility rather than pure firepower), and your starting strategic situation is different (easily defended yet economically weak vs open from all sides but very rich). They feel exactly like they should - an Imperial splinter group.
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Some real nice points raised here, folks. Certainly swayed my mind on the ISD issue (even though a ISD I/II crossover is still a real nice ship to use).
Of course, the Pentastar Alignment in-game is not the same as the one in-universe, as the mod Alignment is highly expansionist unless you decide to turtle with them, so I could see them being more isolated if we are going by ICW political situation rather than the one in-universe.
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I agree with Vulcanus here. I did not mean to cross a line, as said in my post I am not well aware of the differences between the factions in canon and my examples were not meant to be adequate with reality, but only to point out some of the things that could be done to redefine the PA as an autonomous in-game faction.
I only know the Extended Universe thanks to you guys and this mod, not the other way around...
But as far as previous posts are concerned, I think most people agree that in-game balance is quite fine as is. So either it is about making the PA in-game feel different from the IR, in which case my suggestion could work without the need for new units and models (although treated differently than my misguided examples, I'll admit), either it is about how the existing factions are handled without changing their nature.
With the latter, when you play the as PA you can actually decide what to do with them strategy-wise, the mod allows plenty of schemes on that matter ; but as for AI, I'm not sure what can be done considering the vanilla's game flaws and limited gestion interface...
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Hey Zangdar, just a friendly suggestion. You've been posting for quite some time as a guest. How about creating a registered account here?
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You hadn't crossed any lines; I was merely trying to explain why the goal of making the PA and IR even more distinct isn't one that we're actually trying to accomplish, since they shouldn't be very distinct at all in the first place. Yes, the point is to make the starting situation the same and things can diverge more in the mod as you go, however you're still only talking about an additional 6 or so years, which isn't enough time for the core identity to change, and it doesn't change the fact that the late-era Remnant is still pretty representative of what the Pentastar Alignment would likely have developed into anyways.
I will reiterate: the Pentastar Alignment is meant to be another "instance" of the Imperial Remnant to represent a specific Imperial splinter faction. Their core purpose, therefore, is to look and still feel like the Imperial Remnant to some extent, in order to represent the fact that there were in fact multiple instances of the same basic political and military structure that had fractured, same as the Warlords.
What this means is, the need to have the same core rosters and functions as the IR (unless they have a very specific alternative):
-They need unedited versions of the ISDI, ISDI, VSDII, TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber
-They need unedited versions of the AT-AT, AT-ST
These are pretty much non-negotiable for ANY Imperial splinter faction. Anything we've written over the last few years proves that faction identity and diversification is very important to what we try to do, both in ICW and Ascendancy. However, part of building faction identity is remaining true to what the faction actually is; if we start to change these core requirements for the Pentastar Alignment to make it less like the Imperial Remnant, it stops being the Pentastar Alignment, because the Pentastar Alignment is still at its core, the Imperial Remnant.
We're fine making alterations to canon where it's necessary for gameplay; we already did it with the PA by stretching canon a bit to allow Jerec and his dark Jedi to be part of the faction despite that he probably died before it was fully formed and was only ever really a loose associate of Ardus Kaine. We did it to allow them to have their Grand Admiral hero, who was really just hiding in the PA and never had any direct association. We gave them the possibility of expanding their roster with CIS stuff they never really had access to via the Corporate Sector in order to give them roster expansion beyond the base Imperial stuff. We gave them an in-universe rationalization for why the TIE Hunter lacks some of its weapons and therefore could be "underpowered" enough to be relatively common (or even there in the first place). However, our agreement to put in the Pentastar Alignment itself is the result of a desire to expand on a gameplay mechanic for the galactic map where there could be multiple Empires, and removing the ties to that by making them less like the Imperial Remnant with edits to their core Imperial units both goes against that goal, muddies their faction identity (as the Brokerage Empire on the Rim), and confuses gameplay where if they're minor changes it's harder for the user to understand what's going on like I said (when it's already sometimes hard to tell what's different between the ISDI and ISDII), and if they're bigger differences then they stop being ISDs in anything but appearance, and they need a new capital ship to fill that main battleship role.
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I love the PA as it's evolved. What you eventually get is a faction that looks like its roots but feels like a distinct split. That's what makes them so fun to play as. (Especially on land.) Sure, it's the Empire, but it's something else, too.
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It was me tioned that at st would be core for any imperial splinter yet pentastar can't build them
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Sorry, that should say AT-ST/AT-PT
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I just wish the PT's grenade launcher was more useful. I like it over the ST, but maybe that's my RaW bias again. (Another reason I love the PA. Have I mentioned how much better your LAAT model is?)
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Love the AT-PT. A really nice design, affordable and versatile. Also, no need to drag an AT-AA battery with you when you got these little walkers securing the skies.
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I haven't played PA yet, but if we talk about cutting/adding something to PA, especially in later Eras, I think that two things may but under consideration:
1. If you want to add some SSDs to PA, I suggest adding "Javelin" - a possible second ship of the Jerec's Vengeance-class (with the limit of only one buildable).
2. If you desire for heroes, maybe consider adding Captain Sysco - the commander of Jerec's "Vengeance" SSD. Though this would require making from nothing his portrait (or use a "generic Empire commander" graphic...), yet an Imperial fleet officer would be IMHO pretty useful in PA fleet.
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I haven't played PA yet, but if we talk about cutting/adding something to PA, especially in later Eras, I think that two things may but under consideration:
1. If you want to add some SSDs to PA, I suggest adding "Javelin" - a possible second ship of the Jerec's Vengeance-class (with the limit of only one buildable).
2. If you desire for heroes, maybe consider adding Captain Sysco - the commander of Jerec's "Vengeance" SSD. Though this would require making from nothing his portrait (or use a "generic Empire commander" graphic...), yet an Imperial fleet officer would be IMHO pretty useful in PA fleet.
For point #1, I really don't feel that the PA needs any more SSDs. They can do just fine without them as they have the long-range sniper Praetor. As for point #2: not a bad idea; the PA could always use more heroes. My idea was to add Admiral Victor Strang as a Space & Ground hero, with a modified Venator/Acclamator (TIE Hunter Squads) in space and as a Storm Commando on ground. It stretches canon a bit, but would also explain how the PA gets the Storm Commandos.
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I daresay stretched canon is not too much of a concern in this case (Jerec).
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I daresay stretched canon is not too much of a concern in this case (Jerec).
It is a bit more than that, though. At least Jerec was actually affiliated with the PA; Strang is never said to have done so and may or may not have died before Endor.
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Yet another Legends plot hole never to be closed.
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Well, the Wookiepedia says that just before the Conqueror was destroyed, an Imperial assault shuttle left the ship... and though Strang was never heard of later on, it could be possible for him to survive, escape and evade... finally to find refuge in Pentastar.
Why not?
The Canon is now just The Legends, so... the modmakers are now kind of Bards of Legendary Tales ;) so let them sing the tale of Admiral Strang...
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Well, the Wookiepedia says that just before the Conqueror was destroyed, an Imperial assault shuttle left the ship... and though Strang was never heard of later on, it could be possible for him to survive, escape and evade... finally to find refuge in Pentastar.
Why not?
The Canon is now just The Legends, so... the modmakers are now kind of Bards of Legendary Tales ;) so let them sing the tale of Admiral Strang...
To an extent I'd agree. Now that legends isn't canon, why not?
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To an extent I'd agree. Now that legends isn't canon, why not?
Legends IS canon. Disney is just an imposter trying to seize the throne (like Jodo Kast impersonating Boba Fett). We all remember how badly things turned out for him, don't we??
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The way I see it, any Imperial who doesn't explicitly get killed or have history with mainstream Empire after the Battle of Endor is fair game to be a Pentastar hero. With the way things are with Disney, we are not likely to get their stories finalized ever anyway. Strang certainly has the institutional connection to Storm Commandoes, but I'm fairly sceptical that he was allowed to continue in their ranks after the disaster with the Conqueror. Strang lost a superlaser-equipped star destroyer! He was likely court martialed and executed for incompetence, unless he was smart enough to go into hiding instead of just reporting back to the nearest Imperial base.
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The Canon is now just The Legends, so... the modmakers are now kind of Bards of Legendary Tales ;) so let them sing the tale of Admiral Strang...
Can I admit that leaving the job of closing plot holes to fanfic writers scares me just a little bit?
Back on topic, this is a valid point. Given the sheer openness of the Legends continuity and its status as essentially frozen, anything left ambiguous is, well, ambiguous--and while continuity should not be sacrificed in the name of gameplay or story, there's a good story to tell here. Strang could've gone down with the ship, or escaped only to be executed by his superiors, or defected, or gone into hiding. Nobody will ever "know". Basically, argument against an inclusion on the grounds of ambiguous continuity is,, I believe, invalid.
More defensible would be the logic that he captained a ship already in the game (this being Jerec's Vengeance), and/or that the Alignment shouldn't have three SSDs running around at once, especially in era 2 when they're the only ones with any SSDs at all. (But the Remnant can have four...)
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Can I admit that leaving the job of closing plot holes to fanfic writers scares me just a little bit?
Back on topic, this is a valid point. Given the sheer openness of the Legends continuity and its status as essentially frozen, anything left ambiguous is, well, ambiguous--and while continuity should not be sacrificed in the name of gameplay or story, there's a good story to tell here. Strang could've gone down with the ship, or escaped only to be executed by his superiors, or defected, or gone into hiding. Nobody will ever "know". Basically, argument against an inclusion on the grounds of ambiguous continuity is,, I believe, invalid.
More defensible would be the logic that he captained a ship already in the game (this being Jerec's Vengeance), and/or that the Alignment shouldn't have three SSDs running around at once, especially in era 2 when they're the only ones with any SSDs at all. (But the Remnant can have four...)
They're not the only ones with SSD's. As stated, IR can have up to 4 remaining that were built. And since PA heroes don't respawn between Era 1 and 2, they're not guaranteed to have any in Era 2 either. So it's no different than the IR in that regards. Either you say no guaranteed SSD's in Era 2, or PA could have up to 2, IR could have up to 4.
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They're not the only ones with SSD's. As stated, IR can have up to 4 remaining that were built. And since PA heroes don't respawn between Era 1 and 2, they're not guaranteed to have any in Era 2 either. So it's no different than the IR in that regards. Either you say no guaranteed SSD's in Era 2, or PA could have up to 2, IR could have up to 4.
The Warlords have an SSD in Warlord Zsinj's Iron Fist, the Dushkan League in the Pride of Yevetha, NR in Lusankya and then there is the Remnant's lengthy list of them. There are plenty of SSDs
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Oh yeah...forgot about Wedge, Remnant leftovers, minor factions...
That's a lot of SSDs to be running around at once. Especially now that the minor factions are a real threat.
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Indeed, keeps one on their toes
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And much more like the canon universe, where it seems like they decided to write every minor 2-bit Imperial splinter warlord somehow had their own Executor.
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And how many of these were actually taken down in battle? (Other than the original Executor, of course.)
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And how many of these were actually taken down in battle? (Other than the original Executor, of course.)
The Agressor was destroyed in combat with another warlord (Pitta).
Razors Kiss, after being sabotoged to be able to be captured by a NR fleet, was destroyed.
Lusankya was destroyed spearing a worldship, although it was long planned and almost all useful systems had been scavenged from the ship before using it as a huge battering ram.
While unknown if it was an Executor or another dreadnought, the Dominion was destroyed in battle with the Mandalorians.
Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that were destroyed in some form of combat and not straight out sabatoge.
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Whelm was lost in a duel with a Mandator III.
The Iron Fist got kissed by a Wookiee and then received some Hapan love.
Reaper was lost in the Battle of Celanon.
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Whelm was lost in a duel with a Mandator III.
The Iron Fist got kissed by a Wookiee and then received some Hapan love.
Reaper was lost in the Battle of Celanon.
Can't believe I forgot the Reaper and Iron Fist, yet remembered Zsinj's second dreadnought!!
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And the Annihilator, destroyed by the Zann Consortium at Kuat. Unless you know the trick to get the superlaser working early, chances are that thing goes down by shooting it.
(Is it weird that I remember that ship, its name, and possibly its commander (Gaarn, I think)?)
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Also Vengeance (the Executor-class, not Jerec's) fell victim to B-Wing bombardment and a corvette kamikaze run.
So in fact quite many SSDs were destroyed in combat.
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Glad to hear something of the Imperials' can die by something other than plot bunny.
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And the Annihilator, destroyed by the Zann Consortium at Kuat. Unless you know the trick to get the superlaser working early, chances are that thing goes down by shooting it.
(Is it weird that I remember that ship, its name, and possibly its commander (Gaarn, I think)?)
It's not weird at all you remember its name, especially since it's the name of practically every non-hero SSD in ICW, since it's the first name alphabetically in the SSD's list of possible names :P.
On topic, I would definitely like to see the Munificent replaced by the Gladiator as others have suggested, I'm not exactly sure what its role would be though is the problem...
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It's not weird at all you remember its name, especially since it's the name of practically every non-hero SSD in ICW, since it's the first name alphabetically in the SSD's list of possible names :P.
On topic, I would definitely like to see the Munificent replaced by the Gladiator as others have suggested, I'm not exactly sure what its role would be though is the problem...
Isn't Gladiator like the little brother of Vic I? Very respectable number of conc missiles for such a small frigate, point-defense lasers, some turbolasers, a couple of fighter squadrons. Sounds like a high-end screening vessel to me.
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Isn't Gladiator like the little brother of Vic I? Very respectable number of conc missiles for such a small frigate, point-defense lasers, some turbolasers, a couple of fighter squadrons. Sounds like a high-end screening vessel to me.
Heck, it's the little brother of the Vindicator even...
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I feel like its best role would be to be what the Sacheen would be if the Sacheen were actually good at all. Fairly small, fast, with low durability but a versatile armament that allows it to handle most small scale engagements, not enough firepower to threaten a large ship on its own unless it's already heavily damaged, but capable of overwhelming larger ships with sufficient numbers. Sort of like an assault frigate, I guess, except it sacrifices some of the durability for a fighter complement and a good array of concussion missile launchers to allow it to screen fighters from larger vessels while still being able to offer meaningful support against large ships.
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I feel like its best role would be to be what the Sacheen would be if the Sacheen were actually good at all. Fairly small, fast, with low durability but a versatile armament that allows it to handle most small scale engagements, not enough firepower to threaten a large ship on its own unless it's already heavily damaged, but capable of overwhelming larger ships with sufficient numbers. Sort of like an assault frigate, I guess, except it sacrifices some of the durability for a fighter complement and a good array of concussion missile launchers to allow it to screen fighters from larger vessels while still being able to offer meaningful support against large ships.
This is pretty much how I envisioned the Gladiator, just I would like it to be a bit slow for a light frigate. Considering that the Gladiator was designed to escort Vic Is, it didn't necessarily require that much speed, and since both Carracks and Strike Cruisers were seemingly favored over the Gladiator (at least during the Thrawn Campaign), you need to give it some weaknesses instead of just making it a more versatile (and thus better) Strike Cruiser/Vindicator.
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Yeah, I was thinking earlier that it would probably need to be slower than I described.
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I didn't checked the forums for quite some time, but I'm back!
For the subject:
In Ground:
What PA needs? PLEX TROOPERS! The tech tree shows the IR's Plex Troopers, but I can not build it in game...
What it definately do not need is the Pirate Skiff. I've got two reasons for that.
1, Why the hell would they have any? They are not pirates
2, Completely useless. Against troopers the Swamp Speeders are much more effective, and against vehicles... Well, anything else would be better...
In space:
-In space it is a well designed Fraction, It doesn't really need anything extra.
-What it definately do not need is the Munnificent. I always found it good looking ship, but it is useless, and personally I only bring it for the Skiprays. Maybe would be more usefull if you would give it the sensor ping ability, or some other GC bennifit. I mean it serves as mobile communications for the Banking clan. It should definately give some bonus because it's sole purpose...
And just a something I tould like to see, is the Lucrehulk to need at least a Heavy Frigate Shipyard. With the other light frigates it just doesn't makes sense.(I know it can only be brought in the corporate sector, but still...)
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I didn't checked the forums for quite some time, but I'm back!
For the subject:
In Ground:
What PA needs? PLEX TROOPERS! The tech tree shows the IR's Plex Troopers, but I can not build it in game...
What it definately do not need is the Pirate Skiff. I've got two reasons for that.
1, Why the hell would they have any? They are not pirates
2, Completely useless. Against troopers the Swamp Speeders are much more effective, and against vehicles... Well, anything else would be better...
In space:
-In space it is a well designed Fraction, It doesn't really need anything extra.
-What it definately do not need is the Munnificent. I always found it good looking ship, but it is useless, and personally I only bring it for the Skiprays. Maybe would be more usefull if you would give it the sensor ping ability, or some other GC bennifit. I mean it serves as mobile communications for the Banking clan. It should definately give some bonus because it's sole purpose...
And just a something I tould like to see, is the Lucrehulk to need at least a Heavy Frigate Shipyard. With the other light frigates it just doesn't makes sense.(I know it can only be brought in the corporate sector, but still...)
1. Plex troopers are fixed in 2.15
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1. Plex troopers are fixed in 2.15
Well, i quite missed it, as i couldn't play for almost half a year, as my new video card didn't wanted to be compatible...(i call it the magic card, as it have issues with 1024x768, but runs perfectly with 1600x1200...)
I have a lot to catch up, but the most of my prev. post is still standing...
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I love playing at the Pentastar Alignment! They have a good starting position in FTGU, and the Victory-Venator combination is awesome for that price range. The only thing I don't like with them are the Dark Jedi. They're not very useful in ground battle, but have ridiculously high auto-resolve power.
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I love playing at the Pentastar Alignment! They have a good starting position in FTGU, and the Victory-Venator combination is awesome for that price range. The only thing I don't like with them are the Dark Jedi. They're not very useful in ground battle, but have ridiculously high auto-resolve power.
They're great for grabbing reinforcement points with their speed.
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They're great for grabbing reinforcement points with their speed.
Yup
Also if we're talking about dark jedis, Jerec is still sucks at space autoresolve.
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I've been meaning to say something about this for a while, but I feel like the IPV-1 is way more durable than it has any right to be for its size. It has 900 shield points, 100 more shield points than the Lancer, a frigate (though it does have 100 less health, 700 as opposed to 800), both of which are higher than the Corellian Corvette, which is much larger, and only has 600shield/600 health. It's already tough for larger ships to hit, on top of being considerably more durable than most ships its size.
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I've been meaning to say something about this for a while, but I feel like the IPV-1 is way more durable than it has any right to be for its size. It has 900 shield points, 100 more shield points than the Lancer, a frigate (though it does have 100 less health, 700 as opposed to 800), both of which are higher than the Corellian Corvette, which is much larger, and only has 600shield/600 health. It's already tough for larger ships to hit, on top of being considerably more durable than most ships its size.
Agreed, though I'm fairly sure it's firepower is significantly lower than the lancer or CR90. Still, for how cheap they are, a bit less hp too would make sense.
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This is true, though it does also have power to weapons which helps make up for that.
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This is true, though it does also have power to weapons which helps make up for that.
Also true, but don't forget that the ship loses it's shields for it, but they are still pretty overpowered for their size, and being quite outdated...
It would be a good resolution to decrease their price and construction time a bit like 800 credit instead of 900 and -10% building time, but also their HP should be 500 too.
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The only problem with the Pentastar Alignment is that they are not fully coded into the campaigns. Their AI is disabled (although that has been fixed in the newest patch), when playing as them, the tech level doesn't advance, the hero's can't be recruited in skirmish, and their hero's don't spawn, but instead are deployed as starting units. They are a great faction, they just aren't coded like a normal faction. As of yet, I can't make the hero's spawn if I tried, meaning era-based upgrades. A similar problem is the fact that planetary rewards don't work, and captured factories don't spawn vehicles. Other than that, they are an amazing (if slightly overpowered) faction.
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AFAIK, a lot of the issues you mention are due to EaW engine limitations regarding additional factions. Regarding eras, since lore-wise the PA was reintegrated into the IR around 10 ABY, there's not really anything to draw on for later eras.
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The only problem with the Pentastar Alignment is that they are not fully coded into the campaigns. Their AI is disabled (although that has been fixed in the newest patch), when playing as them, the tech level doesn't advance, the hero's can't be recruited in skirmish, and their hero's don't spawn, but instead are deployed as starting units. They are a great faction, they just aren't coded like a normal faction. As of yet, I can't make the hero's spawn if I tried, meaning era-based upgrades. A similar problem is the fact that planetary rewards don't work, and captured factories don't spawn vehicles. Other than that, they are an amazing (if slightly overpowered) faction.
Ok, eras do advance with PA, I know that, I play them a lot, just there is no tech tree change when the era advances. You also says that the heroes can't be recruited. That is true, because there are no recruit-able heroes. You have to use what you have, and this is true to every single fraction. You also say the heroes don't spawn? They spawn just fine for me if you don't set them as starting units, except a few heroes, which don't have a land battle form, as they were not warriors. You can see them in buildings when you defend, but this is not just for PA. Mon Mothma from the NR is the perfect example for that.
The planetary rewards had been disabled for the whole mod, not just the PA, so don't worry about it.
The only thing that is true, is that the captured factories don't spawn vehicles.
Please read the manuals and mod descriptions before reporting something as a bug, what is absolutely not one.
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I have only a few suggestions from my time playing as the Pentastar.
I think Skiprays flying on their own should be an option for ~500-800 creds a squadron. Or alternatively give them to a few of the other ships. Also perhaps from era 2(Or perhaps 3) onwards replace V-19 Torrents with Scimitar Assault Bombers (If those are an improvement, I really don't know how they stack up stats-wise) Also maybe drop the price on Imperial Escort carriers because they are rather weak and only useful for their fighters at the moment (A similar problem to Marauders and DP-20 Corellian Gunships really)
And I think Jerec should be split off from the Vengeance. Give the Vengeance to its captain so it can auto-resolve properly and have Jerec pull double duty as a ground unit and a way to make a second planet build Dark Jedi.
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I have only a few suggestions from my time playing as the Pentastar.
I think Skiprays flying on their own should be an option for ~500-800 creds a squadron. Or alternatively give them to a few of the other ships. Also perhaps from era 2(Or perhaps 3) onwards replace V-19 Torrents with Scimitar Assault Bombers (If those are an improvement, I really don't know how they stack up stats-wise) Also maybe drop the price on Imperial Escort carriers because they are rather weak and only useful for their fighters at the moment (A similar problem to Marauders and DP-20 Corellian Gunships really)
And I think Jerec should be split off from the Vengeance. Give the Vengeance to its captain so it can auto-resolve properly and have Jerec pull double duty as a ground unit and a way to make a second planet build Dark Jedi.
First, not part of the mod team. But, I've been here long enough to know some of the mods teams answers to your suggestions.
Scimitar was only heavily used by Thrawn, it wasn't used almost at all before him, and fell back out of usage after his defeat. There'd be no reason to have the PA start using Scimitars apart from them simply being superior bombers. The other issue, the V-19 is a fighter, not a bomber. While much faster and more maneuverable than the Tia/Sa, and posessing shields, the Scimitar is still inferior to the speed and maneuverability of a dedicated fighter. V-19's just so happen to have concussion missiles because those are most useful against other fighters.
Escort Carriers, EVERYONE'S escort carriers are pretty useles except for the fighters they carry. That's the whole point of the escort carrier, something cheap to get figheters into battle.
Jerec. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe Jerec really ever TRAINED dark jedi. While he did gather dark jedi together to pursue the valley of the jedi, I don't believe he ever trained them, so giving him the ability to train dark jedi on a planet he was on wouldn't be logical.
I personally agree on the skiprays. As is, they're useless because the ship they're on is so useless for the price it costs (ostensibly they're glass canon, but they're too much glass so they're destroyed before they can even fire), Skiprays would be much more useful if you could purchase them seperately or if they were aboard a wider range of ships.
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Jerec. I could be wrong on this, but I don't believe Jerec really ever TRAINED dark jedi. While he did gather dark jedi together to pursue the valley of the jedi, I don't believe he ever trained them, so giving him the ability to train dark jedi on a planet he was on wouldn't be logical.
I am afraid it is YOU who are mistaken...about a great many things...
lol Okay now that I got my Emperor Palpatine quote outta the way(no offense intended)
Jerec trained all the Dark Jedi under him, Yun, Gorc, Pic, Maw, Seras and Boc. He also recruited numerous Dark Side Adepts for the Empire and had ties to both the Prophets of the Dark Side and a lot of Inquisitors. He brought many of these with him into the PA early on before his death. So this could actually be feasible, but since the PA has buildable Dark Jedi now it is kind of a moot point.
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Also perhaps from era 2(Or perhaps 3) onwards replace V-19 Torrents with Scimitar Assault Bombers.
Scimitar Assault Bomber is one of the most useless starfighters in the mod.
Also, giving Pentastar Alignment fighter complements era advancement results in plain weird bugs elsewhere, mainly IR proper using Pentastar and Yevetha ships and their fighter complements, even if they are not connected in any way in the XML code.
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Scimitar Assault Bomber is one of the most useless starfighters in the mod.
Also, giving Pentastar Alignment fighter complements era advancement results in plain weird bugs elsewhere, mainly IR proper using Pentastar and Yevetha ships and their fighter complements, even if they are not connected in any way in the XML code.
They are connected. "Variant Of".
If you go through, recode all the ships they share and do full coding in the XML's instead of "variant of" you can get it to work correctly. I had done that for myself back with 2.0, but after 2.1, didn't feel like doing it again.
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They are connected. "Variant Of".
If you go through, recode all the ships they share and do full coding in the XML's instead of "variant of" you can get it to work correctly. I had done that for myself back with 2.0, but after 2.1, didn't feel like doing it again.
Back when I wanted to give the Pentastar Alignment full fighter era advancement I did just that. Zero connection between ships. Still had Trifoils, Howlies and Blastboats flying in all the wrong eras for IR.
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Did you ALSO recode the other factions though? All factions need to use no "variant of" for the shared ship. So if you're doing an ISD-1, each faction needs to have a full coding in the .xml for the ISD-1 in order to avoid it, NONE of the factions can use the "variant of" string. If any of them have the variant of in use, it can cause headaches, but if none of them do, it will work. I'd never had a single ship not work correctly after removing all variant of.
On the fun side, using variant of, you can get a LOT of fighters to launch. I remember when I first was learning this, my PA Venators were launching 2 Tie/ln, 2 Tie/Sa, 2 V-19's, 1 Tie/IN, and 1 Skipray. Couldn't figure out at first why they had so many, but got a laugh of seeing the Venator go against anything, absolute destruction incarnate.
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Did you ALSO recode the other factions though? All factions need to use no "variant of" for the shared ship. So if you're doing an ISD-1, each faction needs to have a full coding in the .xml for the ISD-1 in order to avoid it, NONE of the factions can use the "variant of" string. If any of them have the variant of in use, it can cause headaches, but if none of them do, it will work. I'd never had a single ship not work correctly after removing all variant of.
On the fun side, using variant of, you can get a LOT of fighters to launch. I remember when I first was learning this, my PA Venators were launching 2 Tie/ln, 2 Tie/Sa, 2 V-19's, 1 Tie/IN, and 1 Skipray. Couldn't figure out at first why they had so many, but got a laugh of seeing the Venator go against anything, absolute destruction incarnate.
Could very well have been the case of me having NR ISD I and Vic II variants, even if minor faction Vics and ISDs were not variants. As for duplicate fighter complements, that should IMO be fixed for the next ICW patch. Half the hero and minor faction variants still spawn double fighter complements IIRC.
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I meant to look at that sort of code issue for 2.1, I guess I just didn't get around to it.
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First I have to make it clear: leave out the argument about programming and coding.
The only things i agree are to give buildable skyprays and the idea to separate Jerec and the Vengeance, and even that is only to solve the autoresolve problem.
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Person who got PA into Star Wars was a genius. Switzerland-like faction of the fractured Empire, seizing control of the galaxy...
My Fleet formation is simple: ISDs II, Venators, VSCs II, Praetor-II Battlecruisers + Hero (Grant, Kaine, Jerec)
My Ground Forces: Troopers cloned on Wayland (found Emperor's Spaartan Cloning Vats on Wayland), AT-ATs, AT-PTs, AT-AAs, TX-130s, Hellfire Droids, LAA-T
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Hailfire, not hellfire. Why do you not use the single most important unit for the PA, the A9 Floating fortress (ping ability)?
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Hailfire, not hellfire. Why do you not use the single most important unit for the PA, the A9 Floating fortress (ping ability)?
To me the Hailfire is the most important. It literally counters everything except air units. I tend to carry a single A9 for ping, but usually my horde of 30 hailfire tanks are impossible to stop.
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Hailfire, not hellfire. Why do you not use the single most important unit for the PA, the A9 Floating fortress (ping ability)?
I call those droids "Hellfire", because in great numbers, they create hell in enemy forces.
I forgot to mention I use A9 as well, but only for finding a power generator for my bombers.
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I call those droids "Hellfire", because in great numbers, they create hell in enemy forces.
I forgot to mention I use A9 as well, but only for finding a power generator for my bombers.
To each his own, I guess.
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Also, PA could get new heroes, IMHO. Here are my suggestions:
*Jerec's Dark Jedi Party - Jun, Sarris, Bocas'eca, Maw etc.
*Admiral Togriss - the one who joined forces with Han Solo in Hunt for Zsinj
*Captains Brandei/Dorja - after the death of Thrawn above Bilbringi
What do you think?
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Also, PA could get new heroes, IMHO. Here are my suggestions:
*Jerec's Dark Jedi Party - Jun, Sarris, Bocas'eca, Maw etc.
*Admiral Togriss - the one who joined forces with Han Solo in Hunt for Zsinj
*Captains Brandei/Dorja - after the death of Thrawn above Bilbringi
What do you think?
Jerec's jedi make sense.
Rogriss wouldn't make much sense, since after he was stripped of command he retired from all naval life and took a position on some planet doing something for planetary defense.
Brandei &/or Dorja, while neither had any canon ties to the PA, IMO Brandei would make more sense. Not so much Dorja IMO.
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Well, Rogriss wasn't stripped of command so much as he defected, but he still wouldn't make sense for the PA as he was a loyal Imperialist until then. Still wouldn't mind seeing more of him though - always liked him.
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Also, PA could get new heroes, IMHO. Here are my suggestions:
*Jerec's Dark Jedi Party - Jun, Sarris, Bocas'eca, Maw etc.
*Admiral Togriss - the one who joined forces with Han Solo in Hunt for Zsinj
*Captains Brandei/Dorja - after the death of Thrawn above Bilbringi
What do you think?
Well we already have generic Dark Jedi Jerec can recruit so adding in a few of his servant dark jedi as heroes doesn't really add anything new.Plus most would have to have new renders and skins(maw,gorc,pic,boc)
Rogriss was never with the PA as he was mainstream like Pellaeon, same with Brandei and Dorja.
What might work better is Heroes that were founders of the PA and that allow ccertain units to be recruited or buffed. Wyn Otro could be for heavy units or some CWs varients with buffs as he ran Galentro Heavy works, Elta Besk could likewise give production or buffs to droid units like hailfire and Providence carriers. These were principalmembers who ccontributed directlyto the PA.
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Maybe have it so PA (and maybe expand to other Imperial factions?) can recruit some units of the factions if it holds their territories. Like Clawcrafts if holds EotH area, or Late Imperial Stuff if it holds core worlds?
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Maybe have it so PA (and maybe expand to other Imperial factions?) can recruit some units of the factions if it holds their territories. Like Clawcrafts if holds EotH area, or Late Imperial Stuff if it holds core worlds?
There's something similar to this with the balance and flavor submod. Depending on what worlds the PA has, they can build certain ships i.e PA holds Bilbringi, they can build ImpStar IIs and if they hold like Dathomir for example the PA has the ability to build Providence Carriers and Nebulon-B Frigates with TIE Raptors.
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It really adds to the enjoyment
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Oh yes I forgot about the Dark Jedi: the most useless unit in the game (tied with the Jedi). However, they are really good healer units, so there's that.
Unless you get a ton of them and auto-resolve a ground battle, in which case, they rock...but, hey, where's the fun in that? :P
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2x Praetor, an ISD-II, three Venators, a 418, and a trio of IPVs usually round it out for me.
For 'smaller' fleets I usually just tape 40 pop of IPVs together and fling them at the nearest threatening object--it's hilarious to watch ISDs die in a hail of TIE SFX-based laser fire.
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My PA fleet consists of: 2x Praetors as the main punch, 3x Venators as fighter support, 6x IPVs for fight defence, 1x 418 Cruiser and 2x Enforcers to protect Venators and 418 Cruiser from anything that gets past the Praetors and IPVs.
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Oh yes I forgot about the Dark Jedi: the most useless unit in the game (tied with the Jedi). However, they are really good healer units, so there's that.
Dark jedi are shit on battles but gods on auto resolve
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I'd suggest adding an even more out-dated feel to them. Perhaps battle droids could be built on certain planets, while capturing Mon calamari could allow the production providence class ships from the quarren. As well replacing the tie compliments of each ship with an eclectic mix of droid fighters, skiprays, v-wings, and the existing v19 torrents would be cool.
Finally the alignment could be restricted from advanced imperial craft, like the ISD II, (but the tector could be used) and VSD mark IIs.
This doesn't belong here, but another suggestion is to make planets solely owned by a corporation able to make that unit for every faction. It make sense for a corporation to flip sides when there is a battle fleet and army threatening its assets. Kuat: the SD line, Rothana with it's walkers, Kamino with small numbers of clones.
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I'd suggest adding an even more out-dated feel to them. Perhaps battle droids could be built on certain planets, while capturing Mon calamari could allow the production providence class ships from the quarren. As well replacing the tie compliments of each ship with an eclectic mix of droid fighters, skiprays, v-wings, and the existing v19 torrents would be cool.
Finally the alignment could be restricted from advanced imperial craft, like the ISD II, (but the tector could be used) and VSD mark IIs.
Keep in mind that while the Outer Rim in general did have a lot of older tech, the core of the Pentastar Alignment is the Braxant Sector and Velcar Free Commerce Zone, which were pretty rich, and the Alignment had the same access to most Imperial tech that any other group seemed to.
This doesn't belong here, but another suggestion is to make planets solely owned by a corporation able to make that unit for every faction. It make sense for a corporation to flip sides when there is a battle fleet and army threatening its assets. Kuat: the SD line, Rothana with it's walkers, Kamino with small numbers of clones.
This has come up a few times actually. Basically, the reason we don't do this is because we've seen several times in canon what happens when another faction does take over those planets, and it never results in those planets producing the same ships as they sued to for the new people controlling them. The New Republic took over Kuat and Fondor pretty early, and never produced ISDs or AT-ATs from KDY, nor showed any inclination to want to produce them. The senior design team also left Kuat for Byss when it happened, and when KDY produced ships for the NR, it was usually creating REC ships or with things like the Corona. The new owners almost always used the facilities to continue fabrication of the designs already existing within their military, or contracted them to create new designs. Even unique ship types like the Mon Cal Cruisers were made or fitted at other NR-controlled worlds to some extent, hence Thrawn being able to steal some from Sluis Van. The Imperials controlled Mon Calamari for years, and never produced militarized Mon Calamari Cruisers (especially considering the Mon Calamari only worked for them under extreme duress). Rendili was specifically given credit for the Republic-class Star Destroyer as a means to poilitically ingratiate them to the New Republic as opposed to continuing to make VSDs for the NR.
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Huh interesting.
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The PA is a fun faction to play. I think that if you play it right you can steamroll anyone with the praetors and endless venture fighter spam. the ground forces are great and i found that i could take out Duro with just 4 hail fire droids. However, whenever I play the PA in Art of War or Aftermath they don't seem to do much. they just hold their borders or crumble to the sorrounding factions. One time when i was EoTH on Era 1 the NR managed to completely steamroll them on ERA 1, when i managed to get back in that territory by Era 5 i saw that they still had both heroes and a mega fleet at Dubrillion. So i think that their AI needs to be tweaked
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In 2.1 some factions don't have active AI on the galactic plane in the larger GCs. This was done to reduce the volume of non-player activity in an attempt to avoid (or at least delay) a core-game bug ("the freeze") which occurs once a certain number of units/props/projectiles has been reached.
EDIT: Just saw you posted separately on this and Corey already gave a more detailed answer (http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=6278.msg60188#msg60188).
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i just hope that doesn't happen with 2.2
how much new PA stuff is done?
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We can guarantee it will happen with 2.2; it'll happen with any EaW mod since it's a bug inherent to the game engine. We've made some changes which should greatly reduce its occurrence (fewer projectiles is a pretty big deal, AI not attack-looping means fewer battles are necessary in the first place, better fighter staggering), but there's also some stuff which will increase its occurrence (more factions being the big one).
PA stuff will get covered on its own pretty soon, however a lot of it is still things you'll see in other places.