Thrawn's Revenge

Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Imperial Civil War Community Mods => Topic started by: Vulcanus on April 30, 2014, 06:19:44 PM

Title: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on April 30, 2014, 06:19:44 PM
Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1

New 3.1 patch released!


https://mega.nz/#!whMRwJBI!W3FEmlU_w0hlpdli3BxFgERYkqkJRCmWlsLO-jKU1h0 (https://mega.nz/#!whMRwJBI!W3FEmlU_w0hlpdli3BxFgERYkqkJRCmWlsLO-jKU1h0)


Compatible with ICW 2.15.

Installation instructions included in the readme file.

Full list of features included in the mod file.


This patch fixes the most pressing issues with the 3.0 release.

- Pentastar hero recruitment fixed. Victor Strang and his Storm Commando Saboteurs are now available.

- Improved Greater Maldrood ground combat.

- Pentastar Assassin corvettes removed.

- Added 5 Crimson Vic IIs for the Greater Maldrood's Zsinj Campaign.

- Fixed population cost and fighter complement for the Vengeance-class and NR Lusankya.


---


20.9. v.3 New update for Balance & Flavor released

New release features:

Post-Zsinj Campaign GC.

The Greater Maldrood as a new playable faction.

Expanded Pentastar space unit recruitment based on astrography, doctrine and galactic institutions. Comes with an updated ICW manual map with planetary requirements highlighted.

Five new buildable Pentastar Alignment heroes. Onyx Squadron and Michael Unther represent the mainstream Empire and can be built from certain Core worlds. Storm Squadron and Victor Strang represent the more unconventional parts of the Imperial military and can be recruited from certain Outer Rim worlds. Strang can also recruit Storm Commando Saboteurs. And Shea Hublin is there, because I like fighter heroes and he was personally invited by Kaine to join the Alignment in-universe (though he declined and got killed in service of Delvardus. Well, maybe he faked his death just to join the Alignment).

Some balance changes to existing GCs and new star wars intro text crawls for all submod GCs.

Numerous balance changes, experiments, bug fixes and tweaks to units and hardpoints. Major changes to SSD pop cost and fighter complement. Major changes to IPVs, Lancers and Marauders.



---
31.5.
NEW VERSION FOR BALANCE & FLAVOR RELEASED!

New release features:

Orinda Campaign GC.

Infinities: Fel Empire GC.

Adapted build cost balance and new units for skirmish and survival.

New heroes: Dark Side Elite, Kir Kanos, Reaper-Pellaeon.

New space units: Munificent missile frigate and Skipray 24r for PA, Sullustan Preybirds for NR.

+ Multiple game balance and bug fixes.

---

This is an unofficial submod for Imperial Civil War that aims to improve Galactic Conquest game balance with rebalanced space unit stats and build costs.
It also features more than 20 new space units and heroes for GC campaigns.
FULL LIST OF FEATURES AND INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS INCLUDED IN DOWNLOADABLE MOD FILE!

List of new space units and heroes:
181st TIE Interceptors (buildable)
Admiral Nammo
Assassin-class corvette
Buccaneer-class corvette
Emancipator/Liberator Imperial Star Destroyers
EotH Battlecruiser
Horton Salm - Guardian Squadron
Interceptor Frigate
Knight Hammer SSD (buildable)
MC30
MC80 Wingless Cruiser
Pash Cracken - Ace Squadron
Providence-class carrier
Republic-class Star Destroyer
Star Galleon
Tartan Patrol Cruiser
TIE Defender/m (alternate TIE Defenders)
Tomax Bren - Scimitar Assault Wing
Vengeance SSD (buildable)
Wraith Squadron
XJ X-Wing
Z-95 ML

Suggestions and feedback appreciated!

---
This mod is a custom modification and was neither created nor is it supported by the Thrawn's Revenge team. The Thrawn's Revenge team is not responsible for any negative effects from installing these files nor can they be held responsible for fixing any issues which arise from them.
---

Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on May 01, 2014, 02:04:37 PM
I have a few questions about some of the changes you've made. First, you say you increased the Y-Wing squad size from 7 to 12, but the Y-Wing always had 12, and there's not even any difference in coding between our version and yours, besides that you deleted the container. This would potentially change the formation spacing, but the squadrons never actually lacked those ships as far as I was aware.

I'm also curious as to what you actually mean when you say you fixed "BAD" hardpoints (ie Corellian Corvette and Venator).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mat8876 on May 01, 2014, 02:17:37 PM
The y-wing was only 7 fighters, Vulcanus is correct on that along with the TIE Defender.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on May 01, 2014, 02:34:13 PM
It had all 12 and always has, it's just the container made the formation spacing kind of screwy, so most of the time several would display on top of each other, but all 12 were still there. That's why the one in the middle of the squadron always seemed so much brighter, both with selection ring and engine glows, and why one fighter can apparently blow up 6 times.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mat8876 on May 01, 2014, 05:25:58 PM
I'd like to start my message with what a great mod this is I really do enjoy it and putting some of the old units back in is nice as well.

But a few questions 1. Will the patch for 2.1 (when it comes out) work with the minimod with it?
2. Can you put some of the new units into/back into skirmish? (which I did a skirmish and I haven't found any bugs)
3. Is this it or are you going to continue with this mod?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on May 01, 2014, 08:42:00 PM
I will wait to test this one until the patch comes out. If it is compatible then I will partake.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 01, 2014, 10:46:01 PM
I will update this to be compatible with the new patch for ICW when it comes out, so no worries.

Didn't realize ICW Y-Wing squadrons had 12 fighters already. Still, I like seeing them in nice tidy formations.

As for the so-called BAD hardpoints, the problem for Corellian Gunship hardpoints was mainly their horrible Fire Cone Width/Height which doesn't make sense for such a small and agile ship with guns positioned all around the ship. New Gunship forward missile hardpoint has a width of 270 instead of 90 and aft laser/turbo hardpoints also have width of 270 instead of 45.

With Corellian Corvette, the problem with ICW hardpoints is that they dont pay attention to where on the ship the hardpoints are located(fire bones run from muzzleA_00 to muzzleA_05). Yet muzzles 00, 01, 03 and 04 are the only forward batteries and muzzles 02, 05, 06 and 07 are the side batteries and original ICW hardpoint fire cone widths are inconsistent with their actual placement on the ship.

For Venator: Portside (or starboard) weapon bones point backward instead of forward, so the ship can never target another ship with its full firepower. As a solution I concentrated of Venator's firepower to its main battery and proton torpedoes.

Calling them BAD was too harsh, but I'm a such a stickler for details that those simply had to be changed.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on May 01, 2014, 11:05:38 PM
Ah. When you said bad, I thought you meant there was something malfunctioning (Which would be true in the case of the Venator, since that model is godawful and hasn't been touched since like 2008), as opposed to it being personal preference, as it is with the CR90. It's not that they don't pay attention to the orientation, they were specifically picked for the orientation. If you have the front-facing ones with such a high rotation cone, you're far more likely to have the situation where a battle starts with a fighter screen flying directly into it with everything getting instantly annihilated, so the CR90 gets to do its job with absolutely no risk, and the AI doesn't really have a way to deal with that. We did a similar thing with the Asdroni and Lancer, although to a lesser degree because the CR90 tends to get to shoot at fighters that are essentially cardboard anyways.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 02, 2014, 01:57:00 AM
That's understandable for corvettes. E-Wing is another model with funky laser weapon bones. Doesn't hurt them in dogfights but if they get caught in the initial exchange without proton torpedoes ready, they are dead meat with their sideways-firing lasers  ;D

Updated first post with short mod information.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Avarice1987 on May 29, 2014, 03:34:14 PM
Are you working on new version of this submod?

Can you add the Titan and Allegiance Star Destroyers?

Where is the Praetor One class in ICW?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on May 29, 2014, 07:32:04 PM
Are you working on new version of this submod?

Can you add the Titan and Allegiance Star Destroyers?

Where is the Praetor One class in ICW?

Praetor mk1 shouldn't be in it.  Praetor mk1 was a KDF ship that was made with only short range hyperspace engines.  It was not capable of long range hyperspace.  This was done on purpose as it was with many of their Republic era Battlecruisers and Dreadnoughts.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 30, 2014, 02:59:46 AM
Now that the new patch is out, I will post an updated version of Balance & Flavor once I've made sure everything is compatible with the new patch.

New release will include two new Galactic Conquest campaigns.
First of these will be a 12-17 ABY Orinda Campaign that is largely based on Essential Atlas's map of NR-Imperial campaigns between Crimson Empire and Caamas Crisis.
It will have 34 planets and in addition to NR and IR will have two unaligned planets: Adumar and Soullex. On Adumar the player will have a chance to relive Battle of Adumar (the final battle in Starfighters of Adumar), as the opposing fleet will be exactly same (without heroes) as it was in the book.
The second unaligned planet is Soullex, the final refuge of warlord Drommel and his Executor-class SSD Guardian. If you capture Soullex, you'll also capture Guardian.
IR will start with Reaper-Pellaeon, Phennir, Stele, Bren, Rogriss and Kir Kanos as heroes, NR will have to do without Han Solo and several other familiar names as they weren't involved in this conflict.

The second campaign will be a 64-planet Era 3 Infinities campaign.

Other features:
Adapted for skirmish and survival.

- Added a couple of new space units.

- New imperial stealth/elite fighter squadron/dark jedi hero unit.

- Fixed  number of issues with the original release.

There will be no new units that require new models, this will remain primarily a text-based mod, as all "new" space unit models are simply recycled EaW models or unused ICW models (thanks for ICW mod team for leaving those in the mod files).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on May 30, 2014, 11:43:24 AM
I look forward to trying out the Orinda Campaign
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on May 30, 2014, 12:35:34 PM
Now that the new patch is out, I will post an updated version of Balance & Flavor once I've made sure everything is compatible with the new patch.

New release will include two new Galactic Conquest campaigns.
First of these will be a 12-17 ABY Orinda Campaign that is largely based on Essential Atlas's map of NR-Imperial campaigns between Crimson Empire and Caamas Crisis.
It will have 34 planets and in addition to NR and IR will have two unaligned planets: Adumar and Soullex. On Adumar the player will have a chance to relive Battle of Adumar (the final battle in Starfighters of Adumar), as the opposing fleet will be exactly same (without heroes) as it was in the book.
The second unaligned planet is Soullex, the final refuge of warlord Drommel and his Executor-class SSD Guardian. If you capture Soullex, you'll also capture Guardian.
IR will start with Reaper-Pellaeon, Phennir, Stele, Bren, Rogriss and Kir Kanos as heroes, NR will have to do without Han Solo and several other familiar names as they weren't involved in this conflict.

The second campaign will be a 64-planet Era 3 Infinities campaign.

Other features:
Adapted for skirmish and survival.

- Added a couple of new space units.

- New imperial stealth/elite fighter squadron/dark jedi hero unit.

- Fixed  number of issues with the original release.

There will be no new units that require new models, this will remain primarily a text-based mod, as all "new" space unit models are simply recycled EaW models or unused ICW models (thanks for ICW mod team for leaving those in the mod files).

This interests me very greatly
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Revanchist on May 30, 2014, 05:02:01 PM
Any way you could give us JUST the Orinda Campaign, separate from the rest of the  submod??
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 30, 2014, 06:03:41 PM
Right now, the Orinda Campaign is not compatible with standard ICW, because it has several Campaign-specific new units (Reaper-Pelly, Kir Kanos, Guardian), both factions start with several space  units that are not included in ICW (RepublicSD, NR-aligned ImpStars, 181st squadrons), it has multiple new trade routes and Soullex as a new planet. Also, I would like to see Lusankya's red turbolasers from the submod be included since SSD duels were obviously the most iconic part of in-universe Orinda Campaign.

Just finished test-runs with both IR and NR on admiral difficulty.
IR: 10 turns in, lost Pellaeon, Phennir and one of my two Praetors (Praetors will represent Dominion and Megador) at Orinda when Wedge invaded with Lusankya and 14 destroyers + Rogues.
AI NR spawns multiple Turbolaser structures at Orinda for some reason at game start, but no other noticeable issues.

NR: 20 turns in, been on the defensive the whole time, AI IR seems to like building Tector/Venator/Lancer fleets that decimate my bombers before Tectors grind my weaker SDs to fine powder. Made a desperate dash for Soullex, defeated Drommel and his ground garrison, captured the Guardian (script works!), cornered Pellaeon and destroyed the Reaper, but also lost Lusankya.

In short, no game breaking issues detected, so I should have a public version finished soon.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on May 30, 2014, 09:00:52 PM
This sounds like a hell of a good addition, iI've wanted the Orinda campaign for a while. Oh VO auditions are open. If interested send sound files to lordxizer@yahoo.com
Need the following
Leia, lando, mothma,han,corran,dark jedi, navett,marek stele, ssd, wedge, pellaeon, illor and kanos.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 30, 2014, 11:02:19 PM
The second GC campaign to be released will be called Fel Empire.
It is an Infinities campaign where Isard's machinations to disgrace or kill Soontir Fel in the Battle of Brentaal fail. Instead Fel is never captured by New Republic and subsequently Imperial Navy overthrows Isard/Pestage and crowns Fel as the new emperor, forcing Isard to flee Coruscant on Lusankya (such a scenario was suggested in Essential Guide to Warfare).

This achieves several things:
1) Fel is widely respected in the Imperial military and thus has the authority to keep potential minor warlords like Krennel in check and keep Imperial Navy largely united.
2) He would start reforms to end Imperial anti-alien policies, which would weaken New Republic politically.
3) As a result NR never captures Coruscant.
4) Thrawn Campaign doesn't happen.

In short, the galaxy more or less retains status quo for six years until reborn Palpatine emerges from Byss, setting up a Thrawn-Shadow Hand mash-up campaign.

In-game:

Imperial Remnant (Palpatine's Empire) starts with Deep Core, Pentastar Alignment and Eriadu Authority holdings. IR starts with three SSDs (Isard, Kaine and Palpatine), Teradoc's Crimson Command and can build the Night Hammer (late addition thanks to the Favorite SSD-thread, requires Delvardus).

IR will also have a new hero, the Dark Side Elite, which will also be available in Shadow Hand GC. These are Emperor Palpatine's dark side adepts seen in Dark Empire comics and audio drama. They are a stealth unit in galactic mode, fly Howlrunners in space battles (they fly Howlrunners in comics and are identifiedas Dark Side Squadron in the audio drama). In ground battles they are similar to Dark Jedi, but have Force Push instead of Heal/Sprint abilities.

Grand Admiral Thrawn returns from the Unknown Regions to side with Fel rather than reborn Palpatine.

EotH will function as Fel Empire in this campaign and has a unique tech setting that allows them to build imperial units. EotH space and ground units can only be built from Nirauan. Fel Empire's unit list focuses on fleet modernization: no older model ImpStars or Vics.

New Republic will have to play the spoiler role in this campaign. Aside from a couple of fortress worlds in the Core, most of their starting planets are on the Outer Rim. Then again, perhaps that is a good thing as they are far removed from Palpatine's SSD early on in the game.

Finally, this GC campaign is designed differently from most GC campaigns in ICW. It is essentially the anti-FTGU, as all three factions start with well developed military forces, but very limited credits.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 31, 2014, 02:23:05 AM
---This mod is a custom modification and was neither created nor is it supported by the Thrawn's Revenge team. The Thrawn's Revenge team is not responsible for any negative effects from installing these files nor can they be held responsible for fixing any issues which arise from them.---

NEW VERSION FOR BALANCE & FLAVOR RELEASED!

https://mega.co.nz/#!11sEzDYS!pi0PRD23HOTe2Nnh4fuHCuZtWt49_tFBuRMkI-mVgkM (https://mega.co.nz/#!11sEzDYS!pi0PRD23HOTe2Nnh4fuHCuZtWt49_tFBuRMkI-mVgkM)

Compatible with the new 2.15 patch.

Installation instructions included in readme file.
Full list of features included in mod file.

New release features:

Orinda Campaign GC.

Infinities: Fel Empire GC.

Adapted build cost balance and new units for skirmish and survival.

New heroes: Dark Side Elite, Kir Kanos, Reaper-Pellaeon.

New space units: Munificent missile frigate and Skipray 24r for PA, Sullustan Preybirds for NR.

+ Multiple game balance and bug fixes.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Singularity on May 31, 2014, 04:14:07 PM
I'm just wondering, how exactly do you give specific units different audio or pictures?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on May 31, 2014, 06:05:19 PM
Different audio: Need to edit SFX entries in hardpoint and unit files. EaW has a ton of unused sound files that could be used to make the audio more diverse. For example, every loyal Imperial commander should feel bad about using pirate-produced Preybirds in Era 5, so I gave them Lancet engine sounds and pirate laser cannon SFX in addition to different conc missiles.

Different pictures: New unit icons can be added to the game with Petrolution's MTD editor.

Both campaigns still need custom intro crawls and leader introductions (no, Voss Parck, Grand Admiral Thrawn is not dead).

I'd also like to upgrade Wraith Squadron to have ground combat ability, so suggestions about which land models (ICW infiltrator, EaW infiltrator, Pilot suit ?), weapons (sniper rifles, blasters etc.), special abilities (sprint, emp burst, heal, sticky bomb etc.) and sounds (Red Squadron, Rogues, Infiltrator, Ewok etc.) should be used would be appreciated!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Singularity on June 14, 2014, 08:10:51 PM
I think the Dark Side Elite might be OP, they can win literally every ground battle!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on June 14, 2014, 09:17:17 PM
This is very well done. Id support adding the Orinda campaign to TR as a new GC. If you could do Wraith Squadron as a space and ground id back that too for hunt for zsinj gc.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on June 14, 2014, 10:18:22 PM
Thanks for the feedback!

Dark Side Elite may indeed be overpowered as they are essentially a test unit to see how a combined fighter squadron/ground unit can function in-game before I start working with the (obviously more complex) Wraiths. How would you like to see them changed? Reduced lightsaber absorb/deflect chance, weaker HP, weaker lightsaber attack, weaker/different special ability or something else?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Singularity on June 15, 2014, 07:24:39 AM
Thanks for the feedback!

Dark Side Elite may indeed be overpowered as they are essentially a test unit to see how a combined fighter squadron/ground unit can function in-game before I start working with the (obviously more complex) Wraiths. How would you like to see them changed? Reduced lightsaber absorb/deflect chance, weaker HP, weaker lightsaber attack, weaker/different special ability or something else?
Actually I meant they can win every Auto-Resolve on their own.

Loving the mod by the way! And I second the Wraith Squadron suggestion.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on June 15, 2014, 02:23:34 PM
Checking through DSE files, they seem to have leftover Darth Vader-caliber auto-resolve values, so obviously that multiplied by seven makes them beastly in auto-resolve.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on June 16, 2014, 04:43:56 PM
If you find a way to make the wraiths workable you should mention it to the TR team. I remember they almost put them in Hunt for Zsinj but had difficulty. Pilot models would work well. Id say sniper rifle for one, regular blasters for the other three, thermal detonator, and that mine the biker scouts drop out. Maybe a reveal map for one to represent slicer ability
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on June 16, 2014, 04:49:34 PM
We didn't put them in because they would have to be really powerful to be useful at all, we didn't think any of the models were suitable (and making new ones would be extremely difficult), and because using a fighter squadron as the space vehicle for a ground squadron has a really high potential to malfunction in undesirable ways.

Also, Vulcanus, if you're using old models for the new units you're making up (or just looking for other content we never used), I'd suggest looking through old releases, especially 1.3. A lot of it isn't great, but it's there. I think it was 2.0 when I went through and got rid of a lot of the models to try to compensate for Enceladus going planet-happy.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on June 16, 2014, 07:49:43 PM
We didn't put them in because they would have to be really powerful to be useful at all, we didn't think any of the models were suitable (and making new ones would be extremely difficult), and because using a fighter squadron as the space vehicle for a ground squadron has a really high potential to malfunction in undesirable ways.

I remember some of those difficulties. Was just wondering if this fellow had found a way around it.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on June 16, 2014, 11:29:12 PM
May I inquire what sort malfunction did you experience? I'd just like to know what sort of pitfalls I should expect before starting with those Wraiths.

Will check those earlier releases, thanks for the offer!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: rumiks1 on June 30, 2014, 09:48:44 PM
can anyone make the penstar tie hunter buildable from era 1 at all?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on July 01, 2014, 04:49:31 AM
can anyone make the penstar tie hunter buildable from era 1 at all?

Not likely to happen in this submod. You've got Combat Escort Carriers to provide TIE Hunters. Pentastar Alignment space unit list will see extensive changes in the next version with only a small number of universally buildable space units, but a large number of regional and/or limited availability units. They will also have several new planet-specific buildable space heroes, so if a guy like Victor Strang is added, he could possibly enable building of proton torpedo-equipped TIE Hunters.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: mynameisyou on July 01, 2014, 06:04:32 PM
god im so thankful theres a n w fan mod it gets boring playing the same campaigns with the same units no matter how well done they are. ;D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: rumiks1 on July 02, 2014, 07:49:13 PM
Not likely to happen in this submod. You've got Combat Escort Carriers to provide TIE Hunters. Pentastar Alignment space unit list will see extensive changes in the next version with only a small number of universally buildable space units, but a large number of regional and/or limited availability units. They will also have several new planet-specific buildable space heroes, so if a guy like Victor Strang is added, he could possibly enable building of proton torpedo-equipped TIE Hunters.
sounds good to me
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on July 02, 2014, 10:38:09 PM
It's a good sub mod. Enjoyed the Orinda Campaign quite a bit.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on July 03, 2014, 04:21:38 AM
It's a good sub mod. Enjoyed the Orinda Campaign quite a bit.

I'm glad that you enjoyed the Orinda Campaign. Some questions for you: How was New Republic AI? How aggressive it was, what planets it initially attacked, what unit compositions it used?

In my own experience NR AI is fairly lethargic in Orinda, but I'm not quite sure if it needs to be changed since AI behavior is fairly unpredictable in EaW and tends to function differently on different computers.

Also, Wraith Squadron update:
I finished an early test version with fully functional space squadron, stealth abilities and ground infiltrators. They work otherwise just fine, but there is no way to fix the "space combat immortality"- issue. This is caused by the fact that space/ground squadrons are constructed similarly to Darth Vader in EaW: The squadron leader spawns the rest of the squadron as his wingmen in space combat. The problem is, unlike with Vader, the squadron leader also has multiple ground combat companions who are not connected to his space combat wingmen. Those ground companions need a transport of their own, and since they can't fly squadrons of their own they will:

a) Travel in a transport ship together. If the transport ship is destroyed, the squadron is destroyed.
b) Travel attached to the flagship. In this case, you need to kill BOTH the flagship and the fighter squadron to kill them in space combat.

This raises the question about the role of Wraith Squadron. Because if its considered to be primarily a fighter squadron rather than a commando unit, there is no reason to give them ground combat ability.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on July 03, 2014, 12:30:54 PM
I really need to download this and try it out...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on July 03, 2014, 07:50:03 PM
NR was a bit sluggish in response at times. Most of their fleets were Lusankya, hero unit and a few caps.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: darthsayrehs on July 16, 2014, 06:06:16 AM
Is there any way you can add the feature of individual ships hyperspacing out of battle (while the engines are still intact)?

And the super star destroyers namely the eclipse and executor classes are way to powerful, I don't feel like playing as any other faction. I can destroy whole fleets with a single one of them. Is there any way you can balance this issue?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Senza on July 18, 2014, 03:23:33 PM
Having individual ships hyperspace out would be very difficult or impossible to even implement in EaW, and COMPLETELY impossible to balance, this is due to the weird way in which EaW handles combat as somehow stopping time for everyone on a galactic scale. Basically, if you were even somehow able to implement such a system, to get the ship to be added back to your fleet at the end of the battle without it being able to simply be jumped back in from the reinforcement pool during the battle undamaged would be pretty much impossible afaik, which obviously would be stupid as it would make all battles a destroy engine fest even moreso than they already are in EaW, as otherwise battles would be unwinnable, since you'd just be able to jump your ship out and then immediately back in, undamaged, in a safe position so that your enemies cannot take advantage of the fact that they take extra damage when emerging from hyperspace.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on July 18, 2014, 06:05:42 PM
I know the individual ships hypering out has been done in a mod before (I remember playing it), however I seem to recall it did then add them back into the "available fleet" and if you brought them back they were undamaged.  So yeah, not something I'd want to see if it were to unbalance the game that badly.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on July 18, 2014, 07:05:15 PM
Individual retreating to hyperspace is something I would never consider adding for the reasons explained above in this thread (and in several other places in these forums).

Essential to-do list for next version, depending on how long it takes for 2.2 to be released and whether similar features are already under development by the TR team for 2.2:

- Standardize all remaining missile and torpedo hardpoints.
- Standardize fighter complement valuation for capital ships. Most raw build costs in the game are strictly based on my own ship valuation formula, but two separate fighter valuation systems are in use as about a half of those build costs were calculated in the days of 2.0 when I had not yet done any firepower calculations for bombers.

- Rebalance some autoresolve values, ai recruitment preferences and build costs + VicStar I missile hardpoints.

- Entirely redesigned Pentastar recruitment in both space and ground (done, but we'll see what the TR team does with PA in 2.2).
- Several new Pentastar heroes that can be built from specific planets as they expand in GC (done 11 new heroes ranging from obscure roleplaying sourcebook characters to superstar fighter pilots with Kaine connections, some with new projectiles and unique abilities, will cut down to 4-6 new heroes).

- Adapt Zann Consortium units to ICW for a 4-6 ABY Thrawn vs. Zann Rematch campaign in the Unknown Regions, combined with EGTW based NR fleet admiral focused campaign in the known galaxy and a Pentastar ground-up campaign all in the same GC (will see what 2.2 brings, though I'll most likely do this simply for my own enjoyment).

- Fix AI Remnant recruitment bug in Fel Empire GC.
- More aggressive NR AI in Orinda campaign.

- Add new unique abilities to several existing heroes (done but not yet tested a tactical combat diplomacy ability for Leia that allows her to convert hostile natives to NR).

- Upgraded Wraiths to have ground combat ability (halfway done, but could be changed to a NR stealth ground commando unit since I like the Wraiths as a fighter squadron better and combined units suffer from the space immortality issue).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: rumiks1 on July 19, 2014, 09:46:11 PM
i would also like to see what its like and what your doing in 2.2
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on July 20, 2014, 06:01:11 AM
i would also like to see what its like and what your doing in 2.2

Just to be clear, I'm not part of the TR mod team and have nothing to do with developing the 2.2 patch. What I meant is that if they come up with a better Pentastar recruitment system than what I've done (and they certainly have the talent to do just that), I've got no reason to release mine. Similarly, if they've got plans to release an expansive GC campaign that takes place in the Unknown regions or in the immediate post-Endor era, I don't need to sweat doing one by myself.

I have tremendous respect for TR team for their years of hard work to provide us with a mod as suberb as the ICW and being supportive of community mods for it.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: rumiks1 on July 25, 2014, 03:37:05 PM
i know your not part of the team i am wondering what your going to do when it comes out will you be doing a sub-mod for it or nothing really i don't know if 2.2 is a new mod or just a patch i am only asking are you still doing more maps and more gc campaigns and will the one you made now work in 2.2 that's all
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on August 12, 2014, 01:39:36 AM
Vulcanus, is there a way to put the Dathomir map from the base game campaign(The really large one in the Zann Consortiums campaign) as Dathomir's map while still maintaining building slots and the Golans in space? Was thinking of tweaking Hunt for Zsinj just a bit.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on August 12, 2014, 04:42:01 AM
I have never done anything with tactical battle maps since I feel that Thrawn's Revenge did such a nice job with them and I am personally way more interested in game balancing, so I am not the right person to answer that, sorry.
Would certainly be interested in seeing the results of your tweaked Zsinj campaign, though.

Just yesterday I reached playable status for a new GC, but still needs a whole lot of scripting and balancing.
It is another what if- infinities scenario, where Moff Disra's plot is a success, the original Caamas document is never found and the confrontation at Bothawui escalates into a full-scale galactic war between pro- and anti-bothan factions.

70 planets total, NR starts with Denon, Fondor, Sullust, Coruscant, Kashyyyk and Bilbringi. Remnant with all their traditional fortress worlds + Bothawui, EotH with 8 starting planets. Also, the Mon Calamari will side with the pro-Bothans, so the NR will have to do without any whale ships, and there will be a Viscount (+MC90s) waiting for you at Dac should you try to conquer it. The rest of the map will be littered with fleets of various sizes: Hapans, Hutts, BACs, rogue New Class ships and old Imperial and Rebel ships that have found their way to planetary defense forces.

In short, it is the one campaign, where NR players will get their chance to channel their inner Imperial and restore order  :police: to the galaxy while slaying some MonCals in the process.
Of course the IR and EotH  can do just the same.

Still need to add scripts for Pellaeon establishing loyalist anti-Disra forces or having him as a conditional hero for EotH, add Disra and fake-Thrawn for the Remnant (two Thrawns in one campaign  8=) ) and procure a script to add severe penalties for the player who decides to slaughter Bothan refugee camps. Ideally I'd like to do separate factions for pro- and anti-bothans, but until then both will be presented by the Warlords faction.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on August 12, 2014, 10:36:01 AM
Ever considered doing the Deep Core civil war between Harrsk, Teradoc and Delvardus? Have certain units available to each that reflect each ones strategic thought process, i.e. Teradoc has access to light and fast ships and fighters culminating with the crimson command emphasis on mass production.Harrsk has middle ground with ISD variants and cruisers with standard TIEs as a balance of delvardus's and Teradoc's doctrine.   while Delvardus has access to battle cruisers and eventually Night Hammer with emphasis on fewer ships but very powerful.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on August 12, 2014, 11:18:16 AM
Ever considered doing the Deep Core civil war between Harrsk, Teradoc and Delvardus? Have certain units available to each that reflect each ones strategic thought process, i.e. Teradoc has access to light and fast ships and fighters culminating with the crimson command emphasis on mass production.Harrsk has middle ground with ISD variants and cruisers with standard TIEs as a balance of delvardus's and Teradoc's doctrine.   while Delvardus has access to battle cruisers and eventually Night Hammer with emphasis on fewer ships but very powerful.

It would certainly be interesting, but EaW isn't really the right platform for adding multiple campaign playable factions. You either need to extensively script an existing faction (like EotH for Fel Empire campaign) and lose some of that immersion factor or add a new faction like the Yevetha/Pentastar, which means a lot of extra work for just one campaign. I mean, it could be done if you can live with, say, Harrsk as the IR, Delvardus as scripted EotH (since EotH already has build restrictions in place for Fel Empire campaign, it wouldn't be too hard) and Teradoc as the Yevetha with planet-restricted buildable ships (obviously would also require doing the same for yevetha factional units).

An interesting idea for sure. If you can come up with a list of planets and more exact unit lists for all three, I could try to make it.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on August 12, 2014, 04:25:51 PM
That interests me greatly.  The Warlords are in a way my greatest interest and i always lobbied heavily for their inclusion.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on August 16, 2014, 05:08:31 AM
Here is a post that explains how ship build costs are determined in Balance & Flavor. Feel free to offer thoughts and constructive criticism. I meant to post this a while back when there was some discussion about hardpoint damage values, but I simply forgot, so here it is.

The basic formula I used for my submod's galactic build costs was to first calculate the damage value vs. frigate shields for the ship in question. Why frigate shields? Because it is the most commonly encountered shield type and all weapon types produce roughly equal damage vs. frigate shields. I thought using armor damage values would be useless, as most of the time if you manage to punch through the shields, you've already won the fight. Damage bonus for proton torpedoes vs. structure armor is not considered here as it is accounted for later. Ion cannons obviously hold the edge vs. capital grade shields, but since they can't damage armor, that evens out and neither turbolasers nor ion cannons receive any cost multipliers later. Range is also considered if it is not the standard 2100: For example, Majestic's damage values are multiplied by 3000/2100.

The damage value is then combined with shield refresh value/second to receive the total value of how much damage the ship can take and deliver.
Shield health and total hardpoint health are also combined to receive the total health value.

The received values are then compared to ImpStar I's damage and health values and build cost (all scaled by population cost of the ship it is being compared to) without fighter complement to calculate a base cost. The ImpStar I was used because it has easy-to-remember values: total damage 300, total health 10000 an build cost of 6000 without fighter complement.
Technically one could derive all the build costs from any ship and any starting build cost and end up with properly balanced (yet different) build costs for all ships.

The base cost is then multiplied by 1.1 or 1.2 for each of the advanced weapon systems (anti-fighter lasers, conc missiles, torpedoes), special abilities or better than average speed/mobility.

Fighter complement values are then added and subtracted. First a base value is subtracted from the ship's value. This is scaled by population cost and average fighter complement value (0 for pop 1, 500 for 2, 1000 for 3 etc.). Then the actual value of fighters carried is added: 150-450 for fighter squadrons, 300-900 for bomber squadrons, 1/2, 1/3 value and so on for reserve squadrons that are not initial reserves and thus are not likely to take part in the combat.

The build cost value received is POPULATION cost effective, but it is not credits cost-effective for ships cheaper than ImpStar I. Smaller ships have a weaker shield type, but they are also more credits effective, and for 5900 credits one may be able to field several frigates that outgun the ImpStar I by way of superior firepower, achieved space superiority or sheer number of destroyable hardpoints. This is also one of the main reasons why the base cost has to be multiplied to account for advanced systems as it softens the difference between pop cost-effectiveness and credits cost-effectiveness.
This is why one also needs to calculate the ship's value without the pop cost modifier that was applied earlier, or simply count how many smaller ships one can buy instead of a single ImpStar I and compare their values. If there is a large disparity, the pop cost-effective build cost need to be scaled up towards credits cost-effective value since obviously not every space battle is fought with full 40 pop cap stacks.

It is not perfect, as the exact value of things like weapon range, interceptor complement, speed and advanced weapons is hard to estimate. Fire arcs are not accounted for, though any ships with abysmal fire arcs received an improvement to their fire arcs in the hardpoint files.
Actually, most of the build costs in my submod are a bit incorrect because they use my older fighter complement valuation method (150-450 for all starfighters, 400 pop value) that I used before doing some firepower calculations for bombers.

Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on August 16, 2014, 05:29:55 AM
Basic formula:
Ship Y/ ImpStar I

{Damage value Y/[Damage value ImpStar (Y pop cost/ImpStar pop cost)]} x {Health Y/[Health ImpStar (Y pop cost/ImpStar popcost)]} x (Impstar build cost without fighters) x (advanced systems modifier) - (base fighter complement value) + (actual fighter complement value) = NEW BUILD COST (+ possible credits cost-effective scale up)

Some examples:
Ascendancy Star Destroyer (note pop cost 4):
Weapon damage value: 374
Shield refresh value: 17
Overall damage value: 391
Total health: 10660
Pop cost: 4
Fighter complement value: 2x Krsiss (2x300), 1 Clawcraft (450), 1 Syca Bomber (450) = 1500

Impstar values:
Damage: 300
Health: 10000
Pop cost: 4
Build cost without fighters: 6000

Ascendancy SD build cost:
391/300 x 10660/10000 x 6000 -1500 + 1500 = 8336 = 8300



Here is the modded MC40a with a lower pop cost, conc missiles adapted for submod standardization and upgraded shields and fire arcs.

MC40a:
Overall damage value: 94
Health: 3620
Pop cost: 2

Advanced systems:
Conc missiles x1.2
Speed x1.2

Fighter complement: B-Wing 600


Impstar values (pop 2):
Damage: 150
Health: 5000
Build cost: 3000

MC40a build cost:
94/150 x 3620/5000 x 3000 x1.2 x1.2 -500 +600 = 2060 = 2100

Now, if MC40a was still a 3 pop cost ship, its pop cost-effective value would be:
94/225 x 3620/7500 x 4500 x1.2 x1.2 -1000 +600 = 906

Credits cost-effective value for MC40a (pop not taken into account):
94/300 x 3620/10000 x 6000 x1.2 x1.2 = 980

Yet 2 MC40a combined vs. an ImpStar I have the combined credit cost-effective value of 3920.

As you can see, there is potentially a huge difference in pop cost-effective and credit cost-effective values.
A 2 pop cost MC40a is very similar in both pop and credit cost-effective value to an ImpStar I (5900 credit ImpStar I vs. 2-3 MC40s), whereas a 3 pop cost MC40a is always going to be unbalanced in either pop or credit cost-effectiveness.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on August 16, 2014, 05:10:55 PM
Impressive you've really put a lot of thought into this. My sound equipment will be at your disposal too if you're interested in adding some new VOs to your mod i can record.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on August 16, 2014, 06:29:09 PM
I've been working out a similar system for Ascendancy recently and mostly agree with your choices. However, in certain cases there are a few other variables worth taking into consideration. The amount of damage dealt, for example, should be taken into account with diminishing returns, since the way targeting works in EaW, you're rarely if ever going to get the full amount out of something. If you just indiscriminately apply it to everything, with a ton of shps you're going to be paying a large amount because of increased damage that doesn't always exist.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on August 16, 2014, 07:12:10 PM
I've been working out a similar system for Ascendancy recently and mostly agree with your choices. However, in certain cases there are a few other variables worth taking into consideration. The amount of damage dealt, for example, should be taken into account with diminishing returns, since the way targeting works in EaW, you're rarely if ever going to get the full amount out of something. If you just indiscriminately apply it to everything, with a ton of shps you're going to be paying a large amount because of increased damage that doesn't always exist.

Targeting accuracy is something that is fairly hard to accurately depict, so that was the reason for leaving it out. This could be solved by standardizing all targeting accuracy values for hardpoints (they are a bit of a mess right now anyway). Then one could happily use pure damage values for everything.
If you are going to make lasers faster for 2.2, taking a look at targeting values could be necessary to account for the fact that faster lasers mean that super ships like the Exeutor become potentially multiple times more powerful due to faster target acquiring. In my tests, faster turbolasers lead to super ships bossing over everything at will.

Thanks for the feedback, as always!

@Lord Xizer: Thank you for the offer, but I think I'm good without voiceovers. I mean, what I'm doing is simply mod the ICW a bit further every time I play it, so this is more of a personal labor of love with no set goals and adding voiceovers or other entirely non-ICW content would be kind of stepping on the shoes of Corey and everyone else who've spent years making Imperial Civil War and now Ascendancy a reality for us all.

Much respect for Thrawn's Revenge team and if you feel like adapting any of my ideas for official ICW, feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on August 16, 2014, 07:19:06 PM
That's not what I'm talking about. I mean the fact that ships can only properly target one thing at a time, and this almost always results in a significant loss of effective firepower. If something has 1000 HP, it doesn't matter if you've hit it with 1100 or 100,000 damage. It's just as dead either way. When a ship has a ton of hardpoints, the advantage it gains isn't really about firepower except when dealing with shields; the value of an Executor over a Praetor really comes less from the 4000 additional damage it has, and more from the fact that the Executor has its firepower spread over so many more hardponts, meaning it maintains ~100% effective firepower significantly longer than the Praetor.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on August 16, 2014, 07:48:29 PM
I get that, but the Executor and other super ships are anomalies anyway and don't really fit ANY valuation system. When dealing with ships smaller than the Praetor the battle is most times decided by the race to get the other ship's shields down rather than shooting down hardpoints, so in my opinion, targeting vs. hardpoints is of secondary value. The biggest balancing issue caused by this is mainly from shield refresh/damage ratio, but since it is around 10% anyway it does not matter too much.

Instead of starting to calculate damage per salvo /average hardpoint strength, one could use average number of pulses per salvo for a positive or negative modifier and average number of hardpoints/ship(per pop cost) for another modifier.

I considered adding both of these, but this was never meant to be entirely perfect, just to provide a better measuring stick for all ships so that every ship in the game would actually be worth building and there would be no super cost-effective ships like the Ascendancy SD or ships like the MC40a that no in their sane mind would ever build. The build cost thus represents the value of the ship mostly accurately, but still leaves some room for the "quality of design" element represented by number of pulses, hardpoints and fire arcs.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 13, 2014, 12:09:55 PM
Should have a new update soon with the Greater Maldrood as a new playable faction and a new Post-Zsinj GC campaign. The only problem now is that the Remnant version of the campaign CTDs inbetween weeks 1 and 2, which is a shame as they have easily the most interesting starting position of them all. So I'd like to ideally fix that.

If any of you guys here have experience modding GCs and have previously experienced CTDs related to week change, please give me some advice.

With a new playable faction, 5 active factions and 18 new Galactic planets, there is certainly a lot that could potentially go wrong, but the campaign works picture-perfect so far for any other starting faction.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on September 13, 2014, 01:32:18 PM
That usually indicates a problem with the human storyfile for that faction or, when you're setting up the AI/player names, SandboxHuman vs SandBoxHuman
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 13, 2014, 02:09:55 PM
Thanks, man. I double-checked those, but everything seems to be fine. I guess I just need to run some dedicated bug test runs to narrow down what is messed up instead of just wading through the lines.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Slornie on September 13, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
When you say you've got the Greater Maldrood as a new playable faction, how have you set them up as a faction?  Are they just a heavily scripted existing faction, or actually set up as a brand new faction in the Factions xmls?  If it's the latter, have you added entries for the faction in GroundBases.xml?

This may be completely unrelated, and I can't remember if it caused crashes, but we definitely had issues in ICW back when we first added the Warlords/Hapans as active minor factions ("Pirates" and "Sarlacc" as coded) until we added references for them in GroundBases.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 13, 2014, 05:28:35 PM
When you say you've got the Greater Maldrood as a new playable faction, how have you set them up as a faction?  Are they just a heavily scripted existing faction, or actually set up as a brand new faction in the Factions xmls?  If it's the latter, have you added entries for the faction in GroundBases.xml?

This may be completely unrelated, and I can't remember if it caused crashes, but we definitely had issues in ICW back when we first added the Warlords/Hapans as active minor factions ("Pirates" and "Sarlacc" as coded) until we added references for them in GroundBases.

The Greater Maldrood is an entirely new faction, and so far they've been working splendidly. AI builds stuff, conquers planets etc. all the things they should do. Even added as active to the raid fleet script. Didn't add them to GroundBases.XML, but will do, thanks for the tip!

I managed to isolate the Remnant CTD bug to Warlord starting fleets, which is weird, since they have exactly the same fleets in every other factions start scenario. Unless its something related to Warlords being active with their fleets, that should be sorted out fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 13, 2014, 05:50:47 PM
I think its time i got in on this Warlord action!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 13, 2014, 06:22:35 PM
And the Remnant CTD bug is fixed! Unless something unexpected shows during playtesting, will release an updated version some time next week.

Slornie & Corey: Thank you for your kind advice with modding stuff.

Lord Xizer: Thanks for rekindling my slow burning interest in doing a warlord campaign some time ago  :).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 13, 2014, 07:42:56 PM

Lord Xizer: Thanks for rekindling my slow burning interest in doing a warlord campaign some time ago  :).

My pleasure. I have always tried getting the Warlords in as much as possible. I look forward to playing this.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 14, 2014, 12:04:04 AM
Yeah, I think I may have to try this out too next time you post an update.  Sounds very interesting some of the things you've done.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 18, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
I could have posted an update today, but instead decided to add the Greater Maldrood to Stars Align and Hunt for Zsinj GCs as well, so update coming in a couple of days.

In the meantime, detailing the new Post-Zsinj GC campaign.

It is a 46-planet campaign based on the conflict that occurs immediately after Zsinj is killed and just before the Thrawn Campaign. On the center-stage is the clash of three admirals: Ackbar, Rogriss and Teradoc, all attempting to take control of Zsinj's former holdings. In-universe Rogriss started strongly only to get beaten by Teradoc. Elsewhere Ackbar leads campaigns through both Maldrood and Remnant core support territories and then proceeds to defeat Teradoc, who is forced to retreat to his little brother's warlord holdings in the Deep Core.

Campaign notes: This campaign is designed to be challenging no matter who you play. Starting credits are limited for the player. Fleets are large and ground garrisons are small for everyone. There are very few safe purseworlds that allow early game build-up and turtling. In other words, go big or go home.

In test games so far the strategic situation is very fluid. The Remnant takes Axxila and Tangrene as it should, but sometimes is bisected by the Alignment, who may end up all the way to Lianna a couple of weeks later. Teradoc sometimes blitzes the Core only to lose his capital Centares to NR. Warlords don't get instantly steamrolled and launch counter-attacks at weakly defended systems.

Imperial Remnant starts this campaign in its weakest state until the truce with the New Republic a decade later. It has no leader, has just lost Anaxes, Kuat is under blockade and about to fall and besides Carida and some isolated Core worlds they control nothing but a slim swath of the Mid Rim. With the Alignment breathing down their necks and the New Republic steamroller slowly approaching, the Empire is under direct threat of extinction (No one knew about Thrawn at this point).

For New Republic, General Solo is relinquishing his command, so it falls to the fish to clean up what Solo left undone.

The Greater Maldrood is centered around a patch of the Mid Rim that was once the industrial heart of the CIS war machine. It would otherwise be an excellent area for an aspiring warlord to raise his forces, but its low human population and lack of Imperial military academies restricts military build-up. Teradoc has also been waging a non-stop war against the New Republic, the Empire, Warlord Zsinj and the Hutts for years now, so he has pretty much bled his planets dry and is surrounded by bitter enemies. Nal Hutta and Ylesia are active for Greater Maldrood's campaign only.

Pentastar Alignment is playable, but starts without Kaine and only four planets. They played no role in this campaign in-universe, but could cause all sorts of trouble for an unwary Imperial Remnant.

Finally, there are 16 warlord planets in Zsinj's former holdings. Most of them still boast considerable military forces. Both Pentastar Alignment and the Greater Maldrood can recruit some of Zsinj's former troops for themselves.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 18, 2014, 09:28:14 PM
This sounds amazing, I've wanted this to be a GC almost since Hunt for Zsinj GCs inception! The Greater Maldrood playable too? AMAZING! I take it Crimson Command VSDs are part of their ensemble? I'm very much looking forward to playing this! I've always had an interest in the Warlords from Kaine and Zsinj to those three warmongers Harrsk, Teradoc and Delvardus, even Krennal to a degree. Would love to take the helm as their individual factions to try and take chunks of the Galaxy for my own kingdoms. lol I originally sunk a massive amount of time just to get Jerec and the PA playable and the Warlords buffed up. Is good to see this sub mod adding those little tidbits as it's right up my alley!
I'll also finally have some time off from the Army in about 8 days so gonna play this into the ground when it's available!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: mynameisyou on September 18, 2014, 09:54:47 PM
Something i would like to see in the next version is a directly post endor campaign. With the Pentastar alignment very weak militarily because of little chance to build up. The empire is weak with no solid leader and beset upon by warlords like Josef Grunger, dianda pitta and Zsinj. The alliance building up milltary. Imp heroes could be Ysanne Isard without Lusankya ,Sate Pestage, Peccati Syn, Daleak Kreenal, Leonia Tavira, Soontir Fel and Treuten Teradoc who was technically loyal to the empire at the time and more importantly was fighting Zsinj. Zsinj could be represented by a unique tech Greater Malrood so he could be playable. Josef Grunger and Dianda Pitta should be in different factions though witch ones is up to you, Cronal could be a warlord as well,so could Trioculus.

You should also make a change to any period were Ysanne Isard leads the empire so that she does not have Lusankya it would make the empire and republic more evenly matched and it would be more canon.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 19, 2014, 12:43:25 AM
Something i would like to see in the next version is a directly post endor campaign. With the Pentastar alignment very weak militarily because of little chance to build up. The empire is weak with no solid leader and beset upon by warlords like Josef Grunger, dianda pitta and Zsinj. The alliance building up milltary. Imp heroes could be Ysanne Isard without Lusankya ,Sate Pestage, Peccati Syn, Daleak Kreenal, Leonia Tavira, Soontir Fel and Treuten Teradoc who was technically loyal to the empire at the time and more importantly was fighting Zsinj. Zsinj could be represented by a unique tech Greater Malrood so he could be playable. Josef Grunger and Dianda Pitta should be in different factions though witch ones is up to you, Cronal could be a warlord as well,so could Trioculus.

You should also make a change to any period were Ysanne Isard leads the empire so that she does not have Lusankya it would make the empire and republic more evenly matched and it would be more canon.

Only thing here is Pitta and Grunger(While I would LOVE to see and recreate the battle they had over Corellia) kind of killed each other off in less than a year after Endor so they would play very small roles really(again I would love to see that matchup though). I would like to see Zsinj as more of his own faction than as generic IR with a few units. More emphasis on Pirates, Raptor units(Definitely more TIE Raptors) and more commando action with sabotage options like he was fond of.

I just got done playing both Infinities and Orinda and I have to say I love it. Seeing Kir Kanos in game and using him was very satisfying, the reward of getting the Guardian was a good campaign thing and added to the scenario. Thoroughly loved getting Lusankya in a Pincer movement between Reaper and Guardian above Orinda. Infinities was very well done too. Liked that you gave the Dark Side Elite force push instead of heal, made them more useful in combat but they couldn't insta heal which I think is a good change from the generic Dark Jedi in TR(No hate, just throwing that out there guys I still love TR)
Really looking forward to getting my hands on the Greater Maldrood in the near future too! Most excellent submod.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: mynameisyou on September 19, 2014, 10:26:49 AM
The idea is that it take place immediately after endor and kind of compiles he events of 4 aby and 5 aby into one big cacaotic campaign were every one is fighting every one.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 19, 2014, 12:58:39 PM
The immediate post-Endor era up to Brentaal is indeed interesting and has potential for even two campaigns (or three), but there is just so much stuff that can't be done or is hard to implement. Lumiya, Nagai and Tof running around. Torpedo spheres. Countless Imperial fleets that may or may not be still loyal to the Empire. The New Republic could really use the Dauntless Cruiser for its fleet heroes. Whatever happened to the Zann Consortium. The Ssi-Ruuvi-invasion of Bakura and conflict with the EotH.

I'd love to see the NR invasion of the Core and Eriadu Authority with Firmus Nantz, Ackbar and Voon Massa leading the charge, but wouldn't want to do it without the Dauntless Cruiser.
A three-way "origins" campaign between Zsinj, Kaine and Teradoc with a New Republic cameo appearance is something else that could be done in that time period.

Removing Lusankya from Isard is something I've considered, but it causes some problems in era-changing campaigns. You'd need to have a script for "if the Remnant loses Coruscant, then Isard-Galactic gets killed and Isard-Lusankya is spawned. If Isard-Lusankya gets killed, then era advances to 2". Could very possibly be done, but I've never had the interest to try it really.

Grunger-Pitta battle to death could be changed into Grunger winning and lounging over Corellia with a massive fleet and the Aggressor.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 19, 2014, 01:06:34 PM
So many options and good ideas! I especially like the Warlord origins idea. The idea of building them up to their peak power as uniquefactionsis exciting. Really ready to get my hands on greater maldrood
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 19, 2014, 05:24:04 PM
Yeah, I'll be trying it out with the next version.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: mynameisyou on September 19, 2014, 05:28:20 PM

I think a Grunger vs Pitta vs core worlds campaign would be great to see.
The Nagai invasion and Nagai–Tof War would be interesting but it really wasn't that big of an event, but if you want to put the time in it be cool.

That infinities idea is with Grunger is awesome!

I think a better idea is to have it advance to era 2 if Coruscant gets taken and have a separate small bacta war campaign.

The chaos of 4-5 ABY is Fascinating!

Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 19, 2014, 11:25:18 PM
20.9. v.3 New update for Balance & Flavor released

https://mega.co.nz/#!MgFDUJxA!WpbYp0-W65iHQDr4N6yb94WyjRxkSfnVRW12BW7uizA (https://mega.co.nz/#!MgFDUJxA!WpbYp0-W65iHQDr4N6yb94WyjRxkSfnVRW12BW7uizA)

Compatible with ICW 2.15.

Installation instructions included in the readme file.

Full list of features included in the mod file.


New release features:

Post-Zsinj Campaign GC.

The Greater Maldrood as a new playable faction.

Expanded Pentastar space unit recruitment based on astrography, doctrine and galactic institutions. Comes with an updated ICW manual map with planetary requirements highlighted.

Five new buildable Pentastar Alignment heroes. Onyx Squadron and Michael Unther represent the mainstream Empire and can be built from certain Core worlds. Storm Squadron and Victor Strang represent the more unconventional parts of the Imperial military and can be recruited from certain Outer Rim worlds. Strang can also recruit Storm Commando Saboteurs. And Shea Hublin is there, because I like fighter heroes and he was personally invited by Kaine to join the Alignment in-universe (though he declined and got killed in service of Delvardus. Well, maybe he faked his death just to join the Alignment).

Some balance changes to existing GCs and new star wars intro text crawls for all submod GCs.

Numerous balance changes, experiments, bug fixes and tweaks to units and hardpoints. Major changes to SSD pop cost and fighter complement. Major changes to IPVs, Lancers and Marauders.


---
This mod is a custom modification and was neither created nor is it supported by the Thrawn's Revenge team. The Thrawn's Revenge team is not responsible for any negative effects from installing these files nor can they be held responsible for fixing any issues which arise from them.
---


Just a reminder, since this is my personal version of the ICW, very little testing has been done.

As usual, comments and suggestions are very much welcome and appreciated!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 20, 2014, 09:06:01 AM
Just played the new GC and Greater Maldrood in TSA and HfZ. Very nice additions. Love the hero and unit unlock with the PA liked the high starting fleets/low ground and low income. Really made it more strategic.  Like that the galaxy is more open, less bottlenecks. Only thing was in HfZ Teradoc starts with almost nothing surrounded by very heavy IR and NR forces, maybe a few destroyers would be beneficial.

For HfZ could you maybe add the Wraiths and Rogues for NR as they were extremely pivotal in the HfZ, could broaden the gameplay options with new tactics and I too love fighter and commando heroes. Also for Zsinj himself perhaps some pirate units, some of the commandos and infiltrators he used for sabotage actions as a counter to the Wraiths. Gotta say I'm loving this sub mod, keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 21, 2014, 11:45:35 AM
Just played the new GC and Greater Maldrood in TSA and HfZ. Very nice additions. Love the hero and unit unlock with the PA liked the high starting fleets/low ground and low income. Really made it more strategic.  Like that the galaxy is more open, less bottlenecks. Only thing was in HfZ Teradoc starts with almost nothing surrounded by very heavy IR and NR forces, maybe a few destroyers would be beneficial.

For HfZ could you maybe add the Wraiths and Rogues for NR as they were extremely pivotal in the HfZ, could broaden the gameplay options with new tactics and I too love fighter and commando heroes. Also for Zsinj himself perhaps some pirate units, some of the commandos and infiltrators he used for sabotage actions as a counter to the Wraiths. Gotta say I'm loving this sub mod, keep up the great work!

Hunt for Zsinj- Maldrood could indeed use some destroyers, right now they are just realigned Warlords starting units. Thank you for the feedback.

I just played my first proper (not a test) Post-Zsinj campaign with Rogriss. Found some bugs with ground battles (Maldrood turbolaser towers don't appear on map), but nothing game-breaking thankfully. My campaign ended in tears after just 15 weeks. Doubled my planets in an early blitz without losing a single unit. Then the Alignment invaded and I only managed to stop them at Celanon after some heavy losses. Teradoc and NR assaults followed and I lost 8 planets and every single unit I had excluding my factory-fresh ISD II in Bilbringi in less than three weeks. In my books that counts a highly satisfying campaign experience.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 21, 2014, 01:09:26 PM
Started a PA GC just to see how it works.  So far, mostly I like it.  MUCH harder with the changes.  Not keen on having Executors 24 pop cap.  Should be low enough so that 2 Executors can be used at once, even if it's 20 so you can only have 2 and nothing else.  But only being able to have 1 SERIOUSLY hampers the IR from being what they are, and honestly makes them too easy to defeat.

Overall though, good addition.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 21, 2014, 01:35:43 PM
Started a PA GC just to see how it works.  So far, mostly I like it.  MUCH harder with the changes.  Not keen on having Executors 24 pop cap.  Should be low enough so that 2 Executors can be used at once, even if it's 20 so you can only have 2 and nothing else.  But only being able to have 1 SERIOUSLY hampers the IR from being what they are, and honestly makes them too easy to defeat.

Overall though, good addition.

IIRC jumping in with 2 Execs without support fleet results in both appearing in the battle. Could be wrong though. If it doesn't work, will have to see about that. I've rarely encountered multi-SSD AI fleets outside of the bugged IR AI Fel Empire GC in either unmodded ICW or this one.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 21, 2014, 02:26:37 PM
Just finished second playthrough in post Zsinj as Maldrood on Admiral. Blitzed early, mauled Rogriss and a few advance PA units when Acbar and NR hit my flank, drove into my interior taking 1/3 of my planets before i halted them, then IR hit my other side with ssimilar results. lol pooled all remaing forces at my capitalthen fled to Deep Core lol(played gc again, very ssatisfying the way this one is built love it)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 21, 2014, 05:23:18 PM
In every GC that the IR and PA is in, I regularly get attacked by multi-Executor fleets.  In my game that I started here, so far I've been attacked by a multi-Executor fleet AT LEAST 8 times.  But generally I win once the first goes down (since the other ships are already gone), so any more just retreat.  Not once has more than 1 appeared at the same time.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 21, 2014, 07:56:18 PM
In every GC that the IR and PA is in, I regularly get attacked by multi-Executor fleets.  In my game that I started here, so far I've been attacked by a multi-Executor fleet AT LEAST 8 times.  But generally I win once the first goes down (since the other ships are already gone), so any more just retreat.  Not once has more than 1 appeared at the same time.

I see. This would be both WAD and an issue at the same time then. The SSDs are supposed to be less dominating on a strategic scale while offering superior performance by themselves thanks to vastly larger number of active fighter squadrons (24 compared to 9). The issue here would be with AI building their Execs to the max, but not utilising them separately or reinforcing with them in multi-SSD fleets if I understand you correctly. Maybe I'll play with some AI recruitment values combined with different build costs and pop costs. An ideal situation would be where the AI builds SSDs but doesn't bankrupt themselves with them (as may be happening now) by generally building a bit fewer of them. And I personally hate SSDs with nothing but 8-9 active squadrons, so that's not making a return.

Population cost decrease to 18 with 18 active squadrons and a small build cost increase to somewhere between 40-50 000 credits could be on the tabs, particularly if AI building them can be balanced.

Where the 24 pop cost is IMO working perfectly is Sovereigns as they have reached that sweet spot where it's a bit risky attack with one as they can be overpowered, but they are still well worth the credits.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 21, 2014, 10:09:53 PM
Any way the ships for Zsinj can be tweaked so there are more TIE Raptors?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 22, 2014, 11:18:52 AM
I see. This would be both WAD and an issue at the same time then. The SSDs are supposed to be less dominating on a strategic scale while offering superior performance by themselves thanks to vastly larger number of active fighter squadrons (24 compared to 9). The issue here would be with AI building their Execs to the max, but not utilising them separately or reinforcing with them in multi-SSD fleets if I understand you correctly. Maybe I'll play with some AI recruitment values combined with different build costs and pop costs. An ideal situation would be where the AI builds SSDs but doesn't bankrupt themselves with them (as may be happening now) by generally building a bit fewer of them. And I personally hate SSDs with nothing but 8-9 active squadrons, so that's not making a return.

Population cost decrease to 18 with 18 active squadrons and a small build cost increase to somewhere between 40-50 000 credits could be on the tabs, particularly if AI building them can be balanced.

Where the 24 pop cost is IMO working perfectly is Sovereigns as they have reached that sweet spot where it's a bit risky attack with one as they can be overpowered, but they are still well worth the credits.

Well, they did reinforce them.  Several of the fleets that attacked me were 2x Executors, 4 or 5 ISD/ISD-II's, 4 or 5 VSD/VSD-II's, Carracks, Strikes and who knows how many Lancers.  It's just that the smaller ships die significantly faster, so by the time the Executor is ready to die, they've brought in wave after wave of their smaller ships to die (my defense fleet had 1x Praetor, 2x ISD-II, 2x Venator, 2x Nebulon-B, 1x Acclamator + heavy frigate shipyard reinforcements and it's Golans (Corulag, I think 2x Golan III's, maybe II's) + 2 Hyper-V's on the planet)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 22, 2014, 01:45:08 PM
Well, they did reinforce them.  Several of the fleets that attacked me were 2x Executors, 4 or 5 ISD/ISD-II's, 4 or 5 VSD/VSD-II's, Carracks, Strikes and who knows how many Lancers.  It's just that the smaller ships die significantly faster, so by the time the Executor is ready to die, they've brought in wave after wave of their smaller ships to die (my defense fleet had 1x Praetor, 2x ISD-II, 2x Venator, 2x Nebulon-B, 1x Acclamator + heavy frigate shipyard reinforcements and it's Golans (Corulag, I think 2x Golan III's, maybe II's) + 2 Hyper-V's on the planet)

Well sounds like Lancer is the one ship that needs a reduced AI value  ;) . The lancer received some major upgrades to its weapons in exhange for reducing its mobility significantly, since lack of mobility was supposedly its greatest weakness and it used to be one of the fastest anti-fighter ships around. Clearly the AI only factors in firepower.

Lord Xizer: If you want to do it yourself, Zsinj.XML (for Warlords) and Zsinj_Campaign_Units.XML (for IR Zsinj, NR Rogriss and Hapans) is what you're looking for.

Search for SpaceUnit Name to find ships.

Replace the fighter complement in
Starting_Spawned_Units and Reserve_Spawned_Units:

<Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>TIE_Interceptor_Squadron, 1</Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>
to
<Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>TIE_Raptor_Squadron, 1</Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 22, 2014, 01:52:53 PM
No, I say who knows how many Lancers because I know I saw them, but they're so small that they can easily sneak around the map and think you're seeing multiple when it was 1, or get blown up before you even see them.

I do like that you made them slower, since I do remember that they were portrayed as sluggish for their small size but exceedingly powerful and thus expensive anti-fighter ships.

I also liked that you had the Emancipator and ...whatever for the NR, are they starting units or are they buildable units?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 22, 2014, 02:58:22 PM
No, I say who knows how many Lancers because I know I saw them, but they're so small that they can easily sneak around the map and think you're seeing multiple when it was 1, or get blown up before you even see them.

I do like that you made them slower, since I do remember that they were portrayed as sluggish for their small size but exceedingly powerful and thus expensive anti-fighter ships.

I also liked that you had the Emancipator and ...whatever for the NR, are they starting units or are they buildable units?

Emancipator/Liberator can be built from Mon Calamari, under name Modified Star Destroyer. They are also starting units for two of the new GCs. I believe both were destroyed during Shadow Hand (got eaten by a World Devastator), so not buildable after Era 3. NR can also build a limited number of ISD Is and Vic IIs from Kuat to reflect the large number of captured Imperial SDs that were very prominent in early NR fleets. When playing as the NR, its generally useful to pay attention to their fighter complement, as there is some shifting around depending on the era. Ships regarded as frontline ships tend to have more valuable fighter complement. Era 1 MC80s have B-Wings for bombers, but by era 2 they get replaced with Y-Wings, while the Assault Frigate that saw heavy action during the Thrawn Campaign gets upgraded from Y-Wings to B-Wings.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 22, 2014, 05:46:36 PM
Well sounds like Lancer is the one ship that needs a reduced AI value  ;) . The lancer received some major upgrades to its weapons in exhange for reducing its mobility significantly, since lack of mobility was supposedly its greatest weakness and it used to be one of the fastest anti-fighter ships around. Clearly the AI only factors in firepower.

Lord Xizer: If you want to do it yourself, Zsinj.XML (for Warlords) and Zsinj_Campaign_Units.XML (for IR Zsinj, NR Rogriss and Hapans) is what you're looking for.

Search for SpaceUnit Name to find ships.

Replace the fighter complement in
Starting_Spawned_Units and Reserve_Spawned_Units:

<Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>TIE_Interceptor_Squadron, 1</Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>
to
<Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>TIE_Raptor_Squadron, 1</Starting_Spawned_Units_Tech_0>

Thanks!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 23, 2014, 02:57:32 PM
Some further feedback.  Very cool that you have the PA able to build an additional Vengeance class dreadnought.  However, why are the Executors & Sovereigns 24 population while the Vengeance is only 15 still?

I really like how with the increased fighters, the NR is again swarmy like the NR was.  I attacked some planet (can't remember where now) with the ISD-II hero that you added, a Vengeance, 2 Venators, 2 Nebulon-B's, 2 ISD-II's, and an Immobilizer-418, and while I destroyed their ships quite easily, the Quasars had spit out so many of their fighters that the hero dude had lost hardpoints, the Vengeance lost hardpoints, and 1/2 of the generic ISD-II's had the shields all but destroyed.  From an era-1 NR fleet.  Very impressive.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 23, 2014, 04:53:48 PM
Some further feedback.  Very cool that you have the PA able to build an additional Vengeance class dreadnought.  However, why are the Executors & Sovereigns 24 population while the Vengeance is only 15 still?

I really like how with the increased fighters, the NR is again swarmy like the NR was.  I attacked some planet (can't remember where now) with the ISD-II hero that you added, a Vengeance, 2 Venators, 2 Nebulon-B's, 2 ISD-II's, and an Immobilizer-418, and while I destroyed their ships quite easily, the Quasars had spit out so many of their fighters that the hero dude had lost hardpoints, the Vengeance lost hardpoints, and 1/2 of the generic ISD-II's had the shields all but destroyed.  From an era-1 NR fleet.  Very impressive.

I'm glad to hear that you're liking it so far. Vengeance's pop cost is an oversight (as is NR Lusankya). I tend to expand Rimward with my PA campaigns, so I probably just forgot the existence of buildable Vengeances when editing SSDs.

Fighter combat is arguably the one thing that is the most different from ICW 2.15. With weaker corvettes, slower squadron spawn rates, more powerful interceptors and fewer bombers, it pays to do some micromanaging in tight battles. Also, many fighters are radically different in performance so for the Alignment the harmless Howlrunners are now actually quite capable craft, though not quite up to par with X-Wings or A-Wings.  And those Skiprays can really tear things up with the addition of conc missiles and triple ion cannons.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 24, 2014, 06:09:02 PM
It does seem the AI will go into "last ditch panic attack".  I'm well in control of the game, controlling over 1/2 the galaxy myself, and suddenly got attacked 6 times in 2 weeks at 3 different planets (4 attacks IR, 2 attacks NR).  One attack actually had limited success, too.  Destroyed an acclamator, 2 ISD-II's (1 of which was that hero), Praetor-II (which unfortunately Ronquarin or whatever his name was on), 3 Strike cruisers, 2 Nebulon-B's and a Venator.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 24, 2014, 11:37:07 PM
I just realized something.  You cannot build the Kuat Drive Yards Praetor mark II battlecruiser at Kuat...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 25, 2014, 07:02:32 AM
I just realized something.  You cannot build the Kuat Drive Yards Praetor mark II battlecruiser at Kuat...

Sometimes you can't have nice things  ;).

You still like those Tectors and Vengeances don't you?
It wouldn't be wrong to have Praetor IIs from Kuat because of the corporate connection, just that with two very powerful capital ships unique to Kuat already being there, it's not 100% necessary.

The Pentastar build requirements for capital ships and their new heroes in the Core and Inner Rim planets represent their transformation from a warlord splinter faction into mainstream Empire and thus the ships they can build there (ISD IIs, Vic IIs, Strike Cruisers, Carracks) represent them adopting a more conventional Imperial naval doctrine, and the Praetor II was disliked by naval traditionalists (who prefered ISDs) and SSD proponents alike in Imperial military circles.

Praetor II had been officially out of production for years anyway, while Kuat still kept pumping out ISDs in thousands.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 25, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
That's a fair point.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: KissMyWookiee on September 27, 2014, 09:44:39 AM
Just finished a six-hour playthrough of the Post Zsinj campaign as Maldrood and one of the Infinities Fel Empire as EoTH.

Can I just say that seeing those Warlord gunships launching proton torpedoes while in formation with my ISD 2s has to be one of the coolest EAW moments since I realized I could relive Orinda in ICW vanilla. :D

On the other hand, I keep forgetting how fragile the MC80 is. I actually gathered all the wingless MC80s you get in the beginning and sent them on the autoresolve missions (suicidal odds/battles not worth playing).

Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: KissMyWookiee on September 27, 2014, 09:46:26 AM
Also was it just the Interceptor frigates or did the Hutt Providence ships also have proton torps w/o hardpoints?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 27, 2014, 11:47:51 AM
Also was it just the Interceptor frigates or did the Hutt Providence ships also have proton torps w/o hardpoints?

Yeah, all Providence torp hardpoints are undestroyable, just me being lazy and not bothering to finish those hardpoints. The thing is, Providences, particularly the three Invisible Hand variants that the model is based on, have  an enormous number proton torpedoes. 102 16-torp launchers. That's 1632 total torpedoes. With the 180 second standardization, that makes over 9 torpedoes/second, which is roughly equivalent of the entire firepower of an ISD II without the other weapon systems of the Providence counted. IIRC I reduced the number of torps quite a bit since those Providences don't necessarily represent the two remaining Invisible Hand variants, but that's still a ridiculous number torpedoes and potential hardpoints to have.

Gotta love the design philosophy behind the Invisible Hand. Need more hangar room? Just remove some reactors to create space. Dont have enough power for turbolasers/engines as the result? Install as many torpedo launch tubes as possible to replace most of the turbolasers.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 27, 2014, 01:18:40 PM
Sometimes you can't have nice things  ;).

You still like those Tectors and Vengeances don't you?

Not really.  I like the Vengeance significantly more than the Executor because it's a far better looking vessel, but my favorite dreadnought in the game is still the Sovereign.  I never quite understood why they'd build the Tector.  Unless it's a command ship that will never be without a large escort, it has so many vulnerabilities to small ships that it's realistically a nightmare to even contemplate.  Now, you have a Tector be the anchor to a fleet of Lancers and Venators, and you'd have a great niche for it.  But with the Venator being all but retired not long after the clone wars, the Tector, IMO, had no real purpose.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 27, 2014, 03:09:59 PM
Not really.  I like the Vengeance significantly more than the Executor because it's a far better looking vessel, but my favorite dreadnought in the game is still the Sovereign.  I never quite understood why they'd build the Tector.  Unless it's a command ship that will never be without a large escort, it has so many vulnerabilities to small ships that it's realistically a nightmare to even contemplate.  Now, you have a Tector be the anchor to a fleet of Lancers and Venators, and you'd have a great niche for it.  But with the Venator being all but retired not long after the clone wars, the Tector, IMO, had no real purpose.

I'm not a huge fan of either Praetor II or Tector to be honest, but I was requested to give the Alignment Tectors (or was it for EotH? lol) so that's one of the reasons they are there.

If you don't mind playing as the NR, I would suggest the NR Orinda Campaign GC. Last time I checked, the AI Remnant loves building Lancer-Tector-Venator fleets in Era 4, which are an absolute nightmare for NR to deal with.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 27, 2014, 03:55:57 PM
Thats a really good combo fleet
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 27, 2014, 04:36:48 PM
Not sure what buff you gave the Tie/D Defender, but it's massively OP.  4 Tie Hunters + 3 Tie/Ln with a level 1 speed boost were destroyed by a SINGLE Tie/D Squadron.  Insanely OP'd considering the Hunter is just a very minor amount weaker than the Defender by itself, 4 Squadrons should reap a Defender squadron mercilessly.

I'm not a huge fan of either Praetor II or Tector to be honest, but I was requested to give the Alignment Tectors (or was it for EotH? lol) so that's one of the reasons they are there.

If you don't mind playing as the NR, I would suggest the NR Orinda Campaign GC. Last time I checked, the AI Remnant loves building Lancer-Tector-Venator fleets in Era 4, which are an absolute nightmare for NR to deal with.

That's actually the fleet I said makes the Tector worthwhile.  :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 27, 2014, 06:02:47 PM
Not sure what buff you gave the Tie/D Defender, but it's massively OP.  4 Tie Hunters + 3 Tie/Ln with a level 1 speed boost were destroyed by a SINGLE Tie/D Squadron.  Insanely OP'd considering the Hunter is just a very minor amount weaker than the Defender by itself, 4 Squadrons should reap a Defender squadron mercilessly.

TIE Defender stat comparison:
Original: 1 slow rate-of-fire laser cannon, 2 inaccurate medium ion cannons, 30 concussion missiles

New: 4 dual-linked heavy laser cannons, 2 dual-linked medium ion cannons, 4 proton torpedoes , 4 concussion missiles

Maarek Stele 181st variant: 6 dual linked laser cannons, 8 proton torpedoes

I tested the new TIE Defender dozens of times against various opposition. It is no longer the missile assault platform it used to be, but more of a sophisticated air-dominance fighter with a limited amount of ordnance. In one-on-one combat it will utterly destroy squadron after squadron of bottom-barrel weaker fighters. The trick is, with very limited number of missiles it can't penetrate the shields of heavier fighters like X-Wings or Clawcraft. Try matching a squadron of Defenders against 2-3 X-Wing squadrons and the Defenders will get humiliated. The problem with TIE/Ln and TIE Hunter is that they both have weak hull, so they get destroyed by TIE Defender's heavy laser cannons and they lack the firepower to punch through its shields. Just a horrible stylistical match-up. I haven't done anything with TIE Hunters, so they suffer from the same problem as the original TIE Defenders in that their ion cannons are horribly inaccurate and they have only one slow rate-of-fire laser cannon.

Balancing the fighters so that they match up properly in head-to-head and 2-on-1 and 3-on-1 situations is a very time-consuming process, but only the TIE Hunter and the Trifoil have been left out of it. Not sure if I want to do anything to either of those except maybe changing Hunter's ion cannons to dual-linked. IIRC the Thrawn's Revenge team wanted to make the Hunters weaker than in universe to justify having them in large numbers for PA, and I like them as they are: super-fancy TIEs with little actual bark. Giving PA elite interceptor fighters in large numbers combined with their Venators and Skiprays would make them horribly OP in comparison to even the NR fighters.


The rest of the fighters are balanced more or less this way, may have forgotten some:

XJ X-Wings and Scarsiss are better than the rest. Furions maintain their missiles, but are significantly less manouverable, making them third-tier in h2h but still devastating from the distance.

A-Wing (higher intensity lasers, longer loading time), X-Wing (dual linked lasers), TIE Interceptor (higher intensity lasers, longer loading time) and the Clawcraft (slower; stronger shields and hull) are 100% equal in h2h, as in its 50-50 who wins. they are also almost equal in power against multiple TIE/Ln squadrons, but have highly varying performance vs. many second-tier fighters.

Howlrunners (stronger hull and shields, since higher agility has close to zero impact to performance), TIE Raptors (fewer missiles) and Preybirds (fewer missiles, other changes?) are somewhat equal.

TIE Droids (way worse agility, stronger hull?), Krsiss Interceptors (reduced number of pulses and agility) and TIE Hunters are somewhat equal.

TIE/Ln still sucks.

That's actually the fleet I said makes the Tector worthwhile.  :)

Arguably the most terrifying fleet you can face as the NR.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on September 28, 2014, 07:34:41 AM
At week 54 of a PA ICW campaign on Admiral, and I am really, REALLY liking the PA recruitment system you've implemented.  I've mostly expanded east, having taken the CSA, Dathomir, and Mon Calamari, while also pushing south a bit giving me a defensive line of Bilbringi-Ord Mantell-Levian Two.  I've got four main fleets at the moment, and it is really cool how their composition naturally varies - Bilbringi's full of ISD2s and VSD2s, Ord Mantell and Levian Two are Praetor, Venator and Munificent heavy, while the fleet that just took Mon Cal is full of Vic1s and Lucrehulks.  I have no idea what the situation in the core looks like, though I suspect the IR is winning, given the fleets I had to recently fight off and the NR's weakness in the Mon Cal region.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on September 30, 2014, 03:23:05 AM
Hm... just realized that I can't recruit Strang from Dathomir.  Any way I can fix that?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 30, 2014, 06:25:49 AM
Hm... just realized that I can't recruit Strang from Dathomir.  Any way I can fix that?

https://mega.co.nz/#!xtsSCSZB!tdR7IYYTPE5HmdtXQyFvIYHnzK2bQHNBJ4IvvZ56yaU

Fixed Pentastar_Heroes, drop it in the XML folder.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 30, 2014, 01:30:37 PM
Gotta just say again how well done this sub mod is. The GCs are great, challenging and the replay value is awesome.  Love it and looking forward to future installments
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on September 30, 2014, 01:43:23 PM
IMO, the only major change needed is that the recruitable heroes, if you get one killed, are re-recruitable.  They should have the lifetime build limit of 1, so that they can't be re-recruited once they die.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 30, 2014, 07:17:13 PM
IMO, the only major change needed is that the recruitable heroes, if you get one killed, are re-recruitable.  They should have the lifetime build limit of 1, so that they can't be re-recruited once they die.

Huh, I hadn't noticed that
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Revanchist on September 30, 2014, 08:00:30 PM
Also, it would be interesting if you had a cap of total heroes for the PA as well, so the player has to choose which to build and if he should sacrifice one to open up a slot. Not sure if this can be done though.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on September 30, 2014, 08:22:18 PM
Also, it would be interesting if you had a cap of total heroes for the PA as well, so the player has to choose which to build and if he should sacrifice one to open up a slot. Not sure if this can be done though.

Can't say I like this idea, to be honest.  The PA's already got few enough heroes that the added ones don't overwhelm, and the need to take territory to get them already somewhat limits how many you have while making them a nice expansion reward.

Vulcanus, thanks, you rock.  I've pushed into the Core now, and so far all the other heroes seem to be working just fine, though I did notice that the Vengeances buildable at Kuat are still 15 pop (if fixed in the file you just posted above, ignore).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 01, 2014, 01:08:34 AM
Huh, I hadn't noticed that

I threw a few of the recruitable heroes into a battle that they couldn't possibly win to see if them dying caused any issues.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 01, 2014, 01:16:09 AM
Hmm... still can't recruit Strang at Dathomir.  Tried starting a new game and rushing Dathomir to see if that made any difference, but it didn't (both ICW GCs if that's relevant).  Also, Vengeance is still at 15 pop (both Jerec and buildables, though Jerec I can fix on my own - tried finding the buildables, but I'm far from XML-fluent).

I do know that the TIE Adv. X-1 squad dying didn't allow me to re-recruit them though.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 01, 2014, 10:26:02 AM
Thank you for the feedback, everyone  :).

Regarding Pentastar heroes: They shouldn't be re-recruitable. I flipped through the heroes file and all of them seemingly have the appropriate build limits. Does it apply to all of them?

Found the reason for Strang not being available. He doesn't have an affiliation as a result of some mix-ups with the Providence code.

I'll test those Pentastar heroes, and probably post an update later together with some Greater Maldrood ground combat bug fixes.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 01, 2014, 02:15:53 PM
I know it was the ISD-II and one of the 2 fighter heroes were both recuitable again after I sent them to their doom.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 01, 2014, 07:06:39 PM
New 3.1 patch released!

https://mega.co.nz/#!owEXmbSB!W3FEmlU_w0hlpdli3BxFgERYkqkJRCmWlsLO-jKU1h0 (https://mega.co.nz/#!owEXmbSB!W3FEmlU_w0hlpdli3BxFgERYkqkJRCmWlsLO-jKU1h0)

This patch fixes the most pressing issues with the 3.0 release.

- Pentastar hero recruitment fixed. Victor Strang and his Storm Commando Saboteurs are now available.

- Improved Greater Maldrood ground combat.

- Pentastar Assassin corvettes removed.

- Added 5 Crimson Vic IIs for the Greater Maldrood's Zsinj Campaign.

- Fixed population cost and fighter complement for the Vengeance-class and NR Lusankya.

---
This is a full install, no previous version required.
---

---
This mod is a custom modification and was neither created nor is it supported by the Thrawn's Revenge team. The Thrawn's Revenge team is not responsible for any negative effects from installing these files nor can they be held responsible for fixing any issues which arise from them.
---
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 01, 2014, 07:14:29 PM
Awesome, thanks. :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 01, 2014, 09:15:00 PM
Will have to try it out!!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 02, 2014, 01:03:50 AM
Drats, doesn't work with my saved game. :( Ah well.  New game to start next weekend, it seems. ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 02, 2014, 09:56:36 AM
Let it begin!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 05, 2014, 11:57:12 PM
Any chance Zsinj might get commandos and tge ersatz 181st he created
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 06, 2014, 12:13:41 AM
Latest patch I can recruit strang, but according to his description, he should unlock a special unit at his planet, this he does not do (ICW GC if it matters).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 06, 2014, 01:17:00 AM
Latest patch I can recruit strang, but according to his description, he should unlock a special unit at his planet, this he does not do (ICW GC if it matters).

Storm Commando Saboteurs are working as they should. You need to recruit Strang first. After you've recruited him, you can build Storm Commando Saboteurs from ANY planet, as long as Strang is present. A similar dynamic is used for Zsinj and his pirate mercenary units (Z-95 MLs, Corellian Corvette variants, Interceptor frigates).

Lord Xizer: I quite like the idea of adding an impostor Fel 181st for Zsinj. I toyed with the idea of adding a clone sleeper cell Soontir Fel TIE Interceptor squadron to Pakrik Minor for EotH, but figured they would be close to unkillable with 12 Fels flying for the same squadron.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: rumiks1 on October 06, 2014, 02:31:57 AM
i can not play new republic in the "hunt for zinji"  since i added it any ideas?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 06, 2014, 02:51:34 AM
That would be caused by the Greater Maldrood Hunt for Zsinj being named as the NR campaign,  sorry about that.

This file should fix the issue:
https://mega.co.nz/#!hhMECK5L!EvM_O_dNO2hEZmDexh98AcAoHbgv4ghifVsrzN8asms (https://mega.co.nz/#!hhMECK5L!EvM_O_dNO2hEZmDexh98AcAoHbgv4ghifVsrzN8asms)

Paste in XML\Conquests\Zsinj.

This shouldn't affect anything else, so if you are not going to play Hunt for Zsinj as the NR, this file isn't necessary.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 06, 2014, 11:05:15 AM
Storm Commando Saboteurs are working as they should. You need to recruit Strang first. After you've recruited him, you can build Storm Commando Saboteurs from ANY planet, as long as Strang is present. A similar dynamic is used for Zsinj and his pirate mercenary units (Z-95 MLs, Corellian Corvette variants, Interceptor frigates).

Lord Xizer: I quite like the idea of adding an impostor Fel 181st for Zsinj. I toyed with the idea of adding a clone sleeper cell Soontir Fel TIE Interceptor squadron to Pakrik Minor for EotH, but figured they would be close to unkillable with 12 Fels flying for the same squadron.

Awesome, also been playing Zsinj a lot lately. Much more interesting with the pirate forces added
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: rumiks1 on October 07, 2014, 12:10:07 AM
thanks mate :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: mynameisyou on October 08, 2014, 10:33:31 AM
the v-19 for the the pentastar alignment shows up as just a featureless icon with no fighter actually there.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 08, 2014, 11:11:51 AM
the v-19 for the the pentastar alignment shows up as just a featureless icon with no fighter actually there.

They show up just fine to me and I haven't heard about unit icon issues from anyone else yet. It could be that your MT_Commandbar files (in Art\Textures) are not the correct ones. Both should be dated 20.8.2014. Alternatively, if you've done some personal modding, could be caused by that.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 08, 2014, 03:24:09 PM
They show up just fine to me and I haven't heard about unit icon issues from anyone else yet. It could be that your MT_Commandbar files (in Art\Textures) are not the correct ones. Both should be dated 20.8.2014. Alternatively, if you've done some personal modding, could be caused by that.

Agreed, mine are showing just fine.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 08, 2014, 06:07:29 PM
Mine too
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: mynameisyou on October 08, 2014, 08:56:38 PM
Ok i will uninstall and re install it and see if its fixed should've done that first in hindsight. sorry to bug ya.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 09, 2014, 06:37:38 AM
Hate to mention it... but Jerec's still got a pop value of 15 in the new Pentastar_heroes.xml. :-\
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 09, 2014, 08:48:21 AM
Hate to mention it... but Jerec's still got a pop value of 15 in the new Pentastar_heroes.xml. :-\

Super Star Destroyers can be really elusive when they want to ;).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 09, 2014, 04:39:21 PM
Super Star Destroyers can be really elusive when they want to ;).

Sneaky for giant bastards they are.  ;D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 09, 2014, 04:53:44 PM
Sneaky for giant bastards they are.  ;D

Especially Jerec's Vengeance. It was sent to Byss but there are no further records of it specifically, though 3 Vengeance class SSDs are mentioned in Shadow Hand Fleet
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 10, 2014, 02:49:36 AM
Especially Jerec's Vengeance. It was sent to Byss but there are no further records of it specifically, though 3 Vengeance class SSDs are mentioned in Shadow Hand Fleet

I associate Jerec with this mod too much... my first thought on reading your post was "But Jerec died, why would his ship still be around?"  My second thought was "*smack self*".

P.S. By the way, Vulcanus, I want to again give props for the expanded PA recruitment and hero work - it really gives the PA a sense of being rewarded for progression that I felt it was somewhat lacking compared to the other factions, which undergo significant fleet and hero changes from era to era while the PA remains stagnant.  Kudos. :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 10, 2014, 10:52:17 AM
Gotta say Infinities GC is really good. One issue though, Thrawn and Krennal despised one another, wouldn't it make more sense for him to be on the other side of the fence? On the other hand he did double cross Isard and was awaiting punishment by Palps. He did also lend some forces to Thrawn in his offensive so maybe he is on the right side lol
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 10, 2014, 12:38:26 PM
Gotta say Infinities GC is really good. One issue though, Thrawn and Krennal despised one another, wouldn't it make more sense for him to be on the other side of the fence? On the other hand he did double cross Isard and was awaiting punishment by Palps. He did also lend some forces to Thrawn in his offensive so maybe he is on the right side lol

You may be right. He had a reason to dislike both Thrawn and Fel, plus Pestage was likely still alive. I just figured that Krennel was always more of a follower than the rest of the warlords, and he wouldn't have yet established his Ciutric Hegemony by the time Isard is deposed in the infinities timeline soon after Brentaal.

Regarding Pestage and Fel Empire GC timeline: I just realized that both Palpatine and Fel would have Pestage (or his clone) as his advisor  ;).

Still I would never switch Krennel over to Palpatine's side since I quite like the big brute (as a character, not as a human-being) and that GC is not designed to be played as the IR due to the way EaW AI works.

Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 10, 2014, 05:53:37 PM
True...but then what about Zsinj? Wouldn't he still have to pick a side? He hadn't" officially"  broken from the Empire yet and with Palps back he'd probably stay loyal for self preservation as he hadn't secured his position yet.


Krennal is an interestingcharacter yes
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 10, 2014, 06:34:43 PM
True...but then what about Zsinj? Wouldn't he still have to pick a side? He hadn't" officially"  broken from the Empire yet and with Palps back he'd probably stay loyal for self preservation as he hadn't secured his position yet.


Krennal is an interestingcharacter yes

Well the GC is set six years after Brentaal. Zsinj in my mind is a person who would never have knelt before anyone but the Emperor. In a Galaxy where the Empire-NR conflict would have slowly cooled down with Fel taking steps away from the New Order Imperial policies, Zsinj is dead in the water with his expansionist ambitions. It could be the Empire or New Republic (or both) that eventually defeats him, but I don't see a way for Zsinj to survive until Shadow Hand, and even if he did, I doubt that he would have decided to join clone-Palpatine anyway.
To some extent, same goes for Teradoc. These men were too ambitious to follow anyone but Palpatine and even the reborn Emperor didn't really have much control over the Warlord fleets, hence the name Imperial Civil War. Also it is generally not wise to poke everyone around you with a stick the way Teradoc and Zsinj did.

On the other hand, an isolationist New Order-purist Pentastar Alignment would probably have flourished as an alternative to a reformist Empire led by Fel, yet with an unpopular leader in Kaine they could never have been a threat to either Fel's Empire or the NR until Palpatine resurfaced.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mat8876 on October 11, 2014, 12:14:12 PM
Why not have particular ships being complements on certain planets (e.g. Lucrehulks at CSA planets or Star destroyers at Kuat).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 11, 2014, 01:35:40 PM
Gair enough analysis on Zsinj
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Darth Stalin on October 11, 2014, 02:59:39 PM
Well, that submod looks nice.
However, as I usually play the largest GC campaign available, my question is simple:
is the Art of War campaign changed in any way or this was left alone?

And can these new Pentastar heroes be built also in Art of War campaign?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 11, 2014, 04:38:30 PM
Well, that submod looks nice.
However, as I usually play the largest GC campaign available, my question is simple:
is the Art of War campaign changed in any way or this was left alone?

And can these new Pentastar heroes be built also in Art of War campaign?

Well, I don't believe he changed the Art of War GC in and of itself, but all the changes made to the factions will change it to an extent.  Yes, you have the new PA units available, the changes to build limits, etc. all are active.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Darth Stalin on October 11, 2014, 04:52:55 PM
Thanks!
I'm looking into the files via WinMerge to compare what changed, and I can see a few addedplanets and trade routes - primarily it seems, those from Eriadu Authority and Greater Maldrood.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 12, 2014, 06:14:20 AM
Why not have particular ships being complements on certain planets (e.g. Lucrehulks at CSA planets or Star destroyers at Kuat).

As in planetary defense fleets? I am not a huge fan of the player getting tens of thousands credits worth of free ships at the most vital planets.


Thanks!
I'm looking into the files via WinMerge to compare what changed, and I can see a few addedplanets and trade routes - primarily it seems, those from Eriadu Authority and Greater Maldrood.

The download does include a fairly detailed list of changes, though I have to confess that there are a whole lot of minor tweaks that were never written down.

Most of the standard Thrawn's Revenge GCs remain unchanged, but the entirely rebalanced build costs mean they are likely to play out somewhat differently. I never play Art of War myself, so I can't specificly say anything about that campaign.

The new trade routes and planets only appear in the new GCs and there are no new Eriadu Authority planets...yet.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 12, 2014, 03:45:34 PM
Hmmm....does this mean Delvardus and the Eriadu Authority will be a bit more prominent in a future GC mayhaps?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 12, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
Hmmm....does this mean Delvardus and the Eriadu Authority will be a bit more prominent in a future GC mayhaps?

Well let's just say that they have a better potential hero roster than any other warlord faction and that includes both Zsinj and the Pentastar Alignment. Delvardus, Cronus, Veers, Hublin and Johans. All but Johans are canon and even he would make sense, being established in the Seswenna sector. And they would have a clearly defined unit roster with pre-Yavin era classic Imp ships (Tarkin) and warhead equipped V-Wings (Hublin). And a unique SSD. I'm not saying it will happen anytime soon if at all. But there is some potential.

Regarding heroes: A prominent Imperial admiral will be added for Zsinj, while Teradoc will get his little bro Kosh and a certain female ISD II-commanding pirate leader as new heroes.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 12, 2014, 07:37:13 PM
For some reason I like Delvardus out of all the Deep Core Warlords(aside from his awesome taste in SSD design) he seemed more secretive than Harrsk and Teradoc, if he had not had the misfortune of being first on the NRs Target list after Endor he might have become a very powerful kingdom. He ranked only after Kaine, Zsinj and Teradoc in terms of power and influence among the Warlords. I can also respect that while all the other Warlords panicked and tried to flee the gas that killed them Delvardus remained calm, cold and focused and his last act was to try and kill his killers. He was also the only one clever enough to come armed, his medals were not egotistical decorum but a hidden weapon. I can admire his conviction at least.

Ah Tavira, how i love that manipulative little minx. I presume Kosh might have an ISD too.

As for Zsinj's admiral....hmmm im guessing either Banjeer or Screed...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 12, 2014, 09:55:12 PM
Does that mean we're also going to see the Invid Clutch fighters?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 12, 2014, 10:51:12 PM
Sigh, these are the kind of awesome things i will miss for 9 months in army deployment. Still i look forward with great expectations to seeing what all has been done in that time.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 14, 2014, 12:50:51 PM
Does that mean we're also going to see the Invid Clutch fighters?

I'd like to see them as well, but the answer is no. She will still have some Pirate fighters rather than TIEs. Maybe Starviper, Z-95 and EaW Pirate Fighter variants?

I presume Kosh might have an ISD too.

He has, and it even has a canon name :), the ISD II Lancet.
Kosh needs a face, though :(.

As for Zsinj's admiral....hmmm im guessing either Banjeer or Screed...

Yes for Banjeer. With the Hast shipyard raid on the Post-Endor GC timeline he is a must-have. Thinking back, the Hast shipyard raid may be one of the biggest Imperial victories in the entire Galactic Civil War so it's not like he is just some chump.

Then there is Teubbo the Hutt, an economist and Zsinj's chief financial advisor who will play the "Gregor" role for Zsinj. With the Hutt-hating Teradoc in the game, it just fits too well to have a Hutt hero for Zsinj, even if he is just an obscure mention from EGtW. And just in case someone wants to combine Hutts with Stormtroopers, I did add him as a ground hero as well.

EDIT: Progress is slow right now with uni and other commitments taking over, but a whole bunch of Post-Endor GC heroes should be finished soon. Imperial Grand Admirals together with some fishy NR admirals.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 14, 2014, 06:20:31 PM
My excitement knows no bounds hearing these things. Eriadu Authority may have a future, these new heroes, additions and other exciting aspects.

For Kosh's pic, why not use Teradoc's current pportrait for him and give Teradoc his pic from EGtW?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 15, 2014, 12:59:09 AM
I'd like to see them as well, but the answer is no. She will still have some Pirate fighters rather than TIEs. Maybe Starviper, Z-95 and EaW Pirate Fighter variants?

He has, and it even has a canon name :), the ISD II Lancet.
Kosh needs a face, though :(.

Yes for Banjeer. With the Hast shipyard raid on the Post-Endor GC timeline he is a must-have. Thinking back, the Hast shipyard raid may be one of the biggest Imperial victories in the entire Galactic Civil War so it's not like he is just some chump.

Then there is Teubbo the Hutt, an economist and Zsinj's chief financial advisor who will play the "Gregor" role for Zsinj. With the Hutt-hating Teradoc in the game, it just fits too well to have a Hutt hero for Zsinj, even if he is just an obscure mention from EGtW. And just in case someone wants to combine Hutts with Stormtroopers, I did add him as a ground hero as well.

EDIT: Progress is slow right now with uni and other commitments taking over, but a whole bunch of Post-Endor GC heroes should be finished soon. Imperial Grand Admirals together with some fishy NR admirals.

If you used Starvipers you'd need them to be much less powerful than the consortiums.  Z-95's might be too weak IMO.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 15, 2014, 05:10:35 AM
StarVipers are already coded and active in the current submod for the Hutts, they are not that powerful but have point defense lasers, which makes them a wonderful anti-bomber stall unit.

Z-95MLs are also in for Zsinj and the Hutts, but would Tavira would likely receive a different variant, most likely the one with triple blasters and standard conc missiles instead of the long range missiles the Z-95ML carries.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on October 15, 2014, 06:41:08 AM
um Vulcanus, I have to tell I really LOVE this mod, but there is this one thing I noticed.
The Vengeance class SSD what buildable in Kuat is called an Executor class...
Great mod BTW. I also have a small advice:
Ease up a bit in that Ordina Campaign. I played it in both side(admiral dif. as always) and the AI just steamrolls you down, no matter what.

I like what you did with the PA tough. You really should do a smaller version of this for Terradoc's empire.(I mean in a much smaller rate.)Å°
Keep up the good work...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 15, 2014, 01:52:00 PM
um Vulcanus, I have to tell I really LOVE this mod, but there is this one thing I noticed.
The Vengeance class SSD what buildable in Kuat is called an Executor class...
Great mod BTW. I also have a small advice:
Ease up a bit in that Ordina Campaign. I played it in both side(admiral dif. as always) and the AI just steamrolls you down, no matter what.

I like what you did with the PA tough. You really should do a smaller version of this for Terradoc's empire.(I mean in a much smaller rate.)Å°
Keep up the good work...

Thanks for the feedback. Always appreciated.

So you got steamrolled by the NR in Orinda Campaign? That's actually fantastic news, since in the previous version the NR AI was too passive and I had hoped to fix that. Campaign difficulty won't get any easier, though, so you need to step up your game ;). It did take three tries for me to have a successful campaign as the NR in Orinda GC myself, it's a matter of small margins. I would advise you to look at what you're building on the ground. With a long and vulnerable border, building the right buildings on the right planets is crucial for success, since your SSD can only be in one place at a time. And just in case you didn't know, there is a free SSD (The Guardian) available on Soullex for the first faction to get there, so make sure the AI doesn't get a clear path there and if your campaign is hitting the rocks, use Pellaeon/Wedge + whatever forces you can gather to raid the planet at all costs.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 15, 2014, 02:18:41 PM
That's one of my favorite aspects of your gcs Vulcanus, the open borders. While chokeholds are cool sometimes they just limit the action and possibilities. It's why Zsinj is so easy to play, his entire kingdom save 2 border planets are unreachable to enemies in HfZ. With Maldrood and Nr and IR being so open you really feel the tension and have to think . Orinda gc does great at this too.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 16, 2014, 02:48:00 AM
Btw just finished HfZ gc as Zsinj IR and Terpherin(the last Hapan Cluster planet) can't be reached. No hyperspace lane to it. Don'tknow if this has been listed already. Other than that, great no bugs ive seen.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 16, 2014, 04:07:55 AM
Btw just finished HfZ gc as Zsinj IR and Terpherin(the last Hapan Cluster planet) can't be reached. No hyperspace lane to it. Don'tknow if this has been listed already. Other than that, great no bugs ive seen.

This is in fact a bug in unmodded ICW as well, thanks for noticing.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on October 16, 2014, 04:27:00 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Always appreciated.

So you got steamrolled by the NR in Orinda Campaign? That's actually fantastic news, since in the previous version the NR AI was too passive and I had hoped to fix that. Campaign difficulty won't get any easier, though, so you need to step up your game ;). It did take three tries for me to have a successful campaign as the NR in Orinda GC myself, it's a matter of small margins. I would advise you to look at what you're building on the ground. With a long and vulnerable border, building the right buildings on the right planets is crucial for success, since your SSD can only be in one place at a time. And just in case you didn't know, there is a free SSD (The Guardian) available on Soullex for the first faction to get there, so make sure the AI doesn't get a clear path there and if your campaign is hitting the rocks, use Pellaeon/Wedge + whatever forces you can gather to raid the planet at all costs.
I knew about the Guardian, and that's always my first priority to get it.
Also, I'm trying to play the Greater M. in The stars align, but they have no structures at all. Not in surface, nor space. It is just too... how should I put it... Goddamn annoying.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 16, 2014, 12:58:30 PM
Also, I'm trying to play the Greater M. in The stars align, but they have no structures at all. Not in surface, nor space. It is just too... how should I put it... Goddamn annoying.

The Greater Maldrood in Stars Align was simply used as a test pad for me before I had finished the Post-Zsinj GC, so they have the same starting units as the Warlords faction had before them. I will give them some starting structures eventually, but modifying the existing GCs is not high on my list of priorities, I prefer creating new ones.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on October 16, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
I totally understand.
And as time passed I was eventually able to take Kuat, Coruscant, and a few more planet, so it can be won without structures too!(admiral dif.)
The only real problem is when Issard pops up...
I also want to give you a GC idea...
There isn't a GC what would really show the establishment of the PA, so what do you think about creating an actual GC about it's establishment?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 16, 2014, 04:06:31 PM
I totally understand.
And as time passed I was eventually able to take Kuat, Coruscant, and a few more planet, so it can be won without structures too!(admiral dif.)
The only real problem is when Issard pops up...
I also want to give you a GC idea...
There isn't a GC what would really show the establishment of the PA, so what do you think about creating an actual GC about it's establishment?

A Post-Endor Kaine-Zsinj-Teradoc GC is in fact next in line.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 16, 2014, 04:32:10 PM
Btw just finished HfZ gc as Zsinj IR and Terpherin(the last Hapan Cluster planet) can't be reached. No hyperspace lane to it. Don'tknow if this has been listed already. Other than that, great no bugs ive seen.

I think I've found a bug in ICW with the added planets too.  Need to continue playing, but have a planet that there's no hyperlanes to it, and I control every planet around it.  However, also not at home right now to check the planet.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on October 16, 2014, 05:40:32 PM
A Post-Endor Kaine-Zsinj-Teradoc GC is in fact next in line.
My dream came true!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 21, 2014, 07:05:32 PM
No idea how I missed this until now... the warlord VSDs in your submod are missing hardpoints and weapons.  Reinstalled ICW and then your mod to test it, and they definitely lose them on installing your mod. :(
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 21, 2014, 07:25:32 PM
No idea how I missed this until now... the warlord VSDs in your submod are missing hardpoints and weapons.  Reinstalled ICW and then your mod to test it, and they definitely lose them on installing your mod. :(

Fixed. Thanks.

Watched some RotJ today to get a good screencap of captain Verrack for his hero icon. But which one is Verrack? They all look alike. Call me a speciesist if you want ;).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 22, 2014, 03:12:07 PM

Watched some RotJ today to get a good screencap of captain Verrack for his hero icon. But which one is Verrack? They all look alike. Call me a speciesist if you want ;).

Borsk Fey'lya would have a field day with that in the senate.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Darth Stalin on October 25, 2014, 11:49:48 AM
Fixed. Thanks.
How can I download the fixed files?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 26, 2014, 09:18:46 PM
With the changes of this submod, Final Imperial Push is a LOT harder as the IR than it ever was before.

1 question, why is the PA Venator cost 4500 (or thereabouts) and the IR Venator cost 6000 credits?  Kinda unfair to the IR player.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 27, 2014, 05:04:01 AM
How can I download the fixed files?

I will post a new update when there is something more substantial than just minor bug fixes done.

1 question, why is the PA Venator cost 4500 (or thereabouts) and the IR Venator cost 6000 credits?  Kinda unfair to the IR player.

Because the IR Venator carries considerably more valuable Howlrunners and TIE Interceptors instead of TIE Fighters and V-19s.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 27, 2014, 12:48:35 PM
Can't wait to get my hands on some of those new Greater Maldrood heroes, and Eriadu Authority in the future.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on October 27, 2014, 02:49:10 PM
Can't wait to get my hands on some of those new Greater Maldrood heroes, and Eriadu Authority in the future.

Should have some new fish to fry as well ;). For me, it's not the heroes you use, but the ones that you face. Fun times when multiple MonCal admirals are knocking on your door.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on October 27, 2014, 06:34:20 PM
Should have some new fish to fry as well ;). For me, it's not the heroes you use, but the ones that you face. Fun times when multiple MonCal admirals are knocking on your door.

Agreed.  I tend to be very careful with my heroes, so they rarely get to do anything spectacular beyond provide passive bonuses, but when Thrawn shows up with his core Star Destroyer captains, oh now that makes me a happy rebel.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 28, 2014, 02:42:10 AM
I tend to play my heroes to character, especially Zsinj, he's by far my favorite Warlord and amusing.
My main thing is trying to recreate the battles i loved like Sellagis, Dathomir, Orinda and Sluis Van among others.
So i look forward to more heroes too and facing them is fun too
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 30, 2014, 11:37:42 AM
Started Orinda Campaign last night.  Felt good to kill Wedge with the Reaper.  Cost me a couple ISD's, but was well worth the price.  AI very agressive, I like how difficult it is early on to be able to keep up with their attacks.  I completely abandoned a few planets to focus on securing my borders, but even then it was still super difficult early.  Now it's become pretty easy as I've secured the borders, built up plenty of mines to get my income up, and my "pinch point" planets all have dual Hyper-V's on them so that I can put a smaller defense fleet and expand somewhere else.  I'm striking into the core, just blew through Bilbringi and then took whatever the planet is that's next to coruscant.  Will finish taking the core next time I play, but overall thus far, well written campaign.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 30, 2014, 12:29:35 PM
Orinda GC would be an epic multiplayer gc
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 30, 2014, 12:38:12 PM
I dare say I agree with that, other than ground combat early on is super unbalanced.  IR has a billion and a half XR-85's and no AT-AA's, while the NR starts with twenty trillion V-wings which nothing the IR starts with can easily counter.  The first 10 ground battles were entirely played on fast forward while I waited for V-Wings to get killed 1 by 1 from my masses of XR-85's, which of course a human player isn't stupid enough to send them 1 by 1 and would simply roll through the IR armies as if it were a superheated knife through butter.  The XR-85 can target flying opponents, but it's not particularly GOOD at it.

That honestly is the only major flaw I see.  The IR army needs to start with less XR-85's and instead needs a decent amount of AT-AA's or the NR needs to start with significantly fewer V-Wings.

But once you get your economy built up as the IR and start adding AT-AA's, the AT-AA, XR-85 and stormtroopers honestly can roll anything that can be thrown at them.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 30, 2014, 05:05:14 PM
That's odd. I only encounter V Wing hordes on Adumar. Other than that they are few and far between even on Admiral difficulty.  I blitz throughokay with llighting strikes before the NR gets comfy and builds
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 30, 2014, 05:42:36 PM
That's odd. I only encounter V Wing hordes on Adumar. Other than that they are few and far between even on Admiral difficulty.  I blitz throughokay with llighting strikes before the NR gets comfy and builds

Really?  I encountered 3 or 4 on almost every planet I got to at the beginning, although yes, Adumar had 9.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 31, 2014, 12:50:28 PM
Really?  I encountered 3 or 4 on almost every planet I got to at the beginning, although yes, Adumar had 9.

Yeah, other than Adumar only Coruscant and Mon Cal have had em for me. As to how to deal, i land a whole force of plex troopers and scouts.CCasualties are high but relatively cheap to replace
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on October 31, 2014, 06:36:07 PM
Yeah, other than Adumar only Coruscant and Mon Cal have had em for me. As to how to deal, i land a whole force of plex troopers and scouts.CCasualties are high but relatively cheap to replace

Yeah, these attacks were before I had even built a single unit, using only what you start with, so no plexies.  I did go through my scouts at an alarming rate.  Every time it said "bombing run ready" another scout went off to his doom.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on October 31, 2014, 10:24:38 PM
Their sacrifice was not in vain for it allowed the Empire to rise again.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 01, 2014, 03:50:42 AM
Yet again the inconsistency of EaW's AI continues to baffle me. Despite my efforts I've yet to achieve an aggressive NR AI in any of my own Orinda GCs as the Remnant, yet here you guys are talking about being steamrolled by the NR or being spammed with V-Wings.

And yeah, V-Wings are starting units only on Adumar, since it is a planet of pilots and there is no Adumari airspeeder in the game for me to use. And since Adumar is controlled by the Warlords faction, that has no effect on the NR using them.

I'd love to see the Orinda Campaign as a multiplayer GC as well. Too bad that the old multiplayer no longer exists. Still, I would gladly adapt it for multiplayer if someone really wants to try it.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 01, 2014, 03:55:44 AM
I like Adumar being full of V-Wings.  Represents the planet better than any other units unless you were going to create Blades specifically for that planet to use for that one campaign (unless you made them special units available only from Adumar in other campaigns... no, Pali, shut up, stop asking people to do more work for your amusement).  Anyhow, yes, I like it.

Also, I decided to test TLMiller's claim that the Final Imp Push is harder for the IR now... and yes, he's right.  I got lucky as hell and took out the Lusankya in week 3 with lightning strikes at Bilbringi with most of my fleet, and since then have spent the entire damned game on the defensive anyways. ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on November 01, 2014, 03:58:07 PM
I like Adumar being full of V-Wings.  Represents the planet better than any other units unless you were going to create Blades specifically for that planet to use for that one campaign (unless you made them special units available only from Adumar in other campaigns... no, Pali, shut up, stop asking people to do more work for your amusement).  Anyhow, yes, I like it.

Also, I decided to test TLMiller's claim that the Final Imp Push is harder for the IR now... and yes, he's right.  I got lucky as hell and took out the Lusankya in week 3 with lightning strikes at Bilbringi with most of my fleet, and since then have spent the entire damned game on the defensive anyways. ;)

Yeah, I didn't take out Lusankya that quickly, but it was quick, and it still took a fair amount of time before I was really able to go onto a real offensive rather than just retaking planets that I'd lost.

As far as multiplayer, anyone tried Tunngle yet?  Supposedly that still will allow you to play multi.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 01, 2014, 09:19:29 PM
It was pure luck - pulled a hit and run on Bilbringi to take out bel Iblis, and Wedge decided to try to chase my fleet by himself - then not start retreating until he had 4 hardpoints left.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 02, 2014, 03:58:13 PM
I normally leave Lusankya alive so it keeps things interesting.  However I attacked it with Pellaeon, a Praetor, Interdictor and tge 181st at Orinda. Took down her shields and rogue squadron along with two X wing squadrons damaged my Interdictors grav well and Lusankya jumped. Fun battle.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 02, 2014, 06:51:43 PM
Sounds like a good one.  My best recent one was in my NR AoW campaign where I for the first time got to fight the Eclipse - Palpy is always on the ground when I find him, but this time I had just taken Thrawn out above Coruscant so I was only a couple jumps from Byss.  Bel Iblis, Nammo and Wedge vs Palpatine and nearly all his supporting heroes (IR was nearly gone at this point, so they all spawned there).  Byss also had a full set of stations and a pair of hyper-vs - I ended up somehow keeping my heroes alive but lost something like eight capital ships and two dozen frigates.  Ugly battle, but Palpy's second reign didn't even last a week. :)

Does anyone else play with an altered pop cap for space battles?  I've tried up to 60, but things got a bit too hectic and I felt it lowered the power of defenses too much.  Lately I've been running at 50, and really enjoying it - battles are just a bit bigger, two SSDs can be used again under this submod but with almost no support ships, and defenses still remain powerful enough to make a big difference.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 02, 2014, 07:59:26 PM
Nicely done
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 03, 2014, 07:29:39 AM
Guys, if you've got any suggestions specific to the Art of War GC such as changes to hyperlanes, planets and starting units, now is your chance. I'm hoping to add an era-advancing Zsinj as IR Art of War GC, but hoping to keep it as simple as possible in terms of map changes. Suggestions for Imp hero allegiances and what should happen to reborn Palpatine would also be appreciated. The idea is to have a three-tech 1-3-5 advancement, with era 3 triggered by Eoth or NR capturing Coruscant and 5 triggered by EotH capturing Denon or NR capturing Bilbringi, keep Thrawn with EotH and potentially develop EotH to have an optional tech advancement path that abandons some of the indigenous Chiss/EotH designs but provides Imp designs with megamasers and mixed TIE/Clawcraft fighter complement.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 03, 2014, 12:52:36 PM
Captain Netbers-Zsinj's unarmed combat specialist and commando leader using an army trooper skin. Llon Banjeer in space with either a modified ddestroyer that had higher carrier potential or something with carrier capacity like he was known to use. Zsinj Raptor commandos to set up money businesses on enemy planets(similar to defilers in base game) Zsinjs planets more accessible
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 04, 2014, 04:19:02 AM
Captain Netbers-Zsinj's unarmed combat specialist and commando leader using an army trooper skin. Llon Banjeer in space with either a modified ddestroyer that had higher carrier potential or something with carrier capacity like he was known to use. Zsinj Raptor commandos to set up money businesses on enemy planets(similar to defilers in base game) Zsinjs planets more accessible
Couldn't agree more.
Also would be nice if Zsinj could be played as the original Warlord color. I know, I know, but brown looks so cool on his ISDs.
about that Defiler like Raptor commandos... I think that would be much better f it would work like base game's steal credit option, or it would take a lot of effort to bring back the "remove corruption" ability.
Guys, if you've got any suggestions specific to the Art of War GC such as changes to hyperlanes, planets and starting units, now is your chance. I'm hoping to add an era-advancing Zsinj as IR Art of War GC, but hoping to keep it as simple as possible in terms of map changes. Suggestions for Imp hero allegiances and what should happen to reborn Palpatine would also be appreciated. The idea is to have a three-tech 1-3-5 advancement, with era 3 triggered by Eoth or NR capturing Coruscant and 5 triggered by EotH capturing Denon or NR capturing Bilbringi, keep Thrawn with EotH and potentially develop EotH to have an optional tech advancement path that abandons some of the indigenous Chiss/EotH designs but provides Imp designs with megamasers and mixed TIE/Clawcraft fighter complement.
I have a few ideas...
I found out that in Into the Cluster you can build SSD as Zsinj, and in The Hunt for Zsinj you can't, so what do you think about giving Zsinj the ability to build SSDs in Era 2?
Let's face it everyone, if Zsinj would survive Han Solo's and Teren Rogriss' onslaught he would be able to build SSDs. Face it everyone, he had a mayor part of the galaxy in his hands at one point!
Like the PA could build an extra Vengeance class at Kuat, they could build an Executor class too at somewhere. And what do you think about giving Zsinj his own buildable Capital production company(like KDY for IR or Sienar Fleet System for PA)
About hyperlines, i don't think it would be wise do disturb the original, working ones. It would be much better to add a few more planets to Zsinj, and make them as new border planets, so the overisolation of Zsinj is also solved :P
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 04, 2014, 04:32:22 AM
also forgot, would be nice to see the Greater Maldrood in the GC :D
And if i talk about them, it would be nice to give them Hiperv. cannons. Their lack of ground to space weapon is most... disturbing.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 04, 2014, 01:43:51 PM
Leonia Tavira with Silri's VO from base game in the Invidious, Kosh as well for Maldrood. As to the Zsinj money option kucsidave makes a great idea, them in the smuggler steal money option would be good and maybe put in Zsinjs terror programs via the sabotage in base game but with limited build so as not to be OP
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mat8876 on November 06, 2014, 01:16:23 PM
I've had a problem on Shadow Hand as the NR.

I only have heroes from Tech 2 of Foc i.e. Mon Mothma, R2 and C-3PO, Han and Chewie and Captain Antilles. all units are fine nothing different.

This doesn't seem to affect IR as I could see they have the heroes from the Mod.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 06, 2014, 02:42:41 PM
I've had a problem on Shadow Hand as the NR.

I only have heroes from Tech 2 of Foc i.e. Mon Mothma, R2 and C-3PO, Han and Chewie and Captain Antilles. all units are fine nothing different.

This doesn't seem to affect IR as I could see they have the heroes from the Mod.

Shadow Hand works just fine for me and all the heroes spawn correctly, so I don't know why this is happening for you.
Have you made any personal modding before or after installing?
Also, are you sure you installed over 2.1 rather than 2.0? IIRC the file location of the Shadow Hand changed after 2.0 so this could be causing problems.
Did you restart ICW and tried starting a new Shadow Hand GC as the NR again? It could be connected to a single play-session rather than be a persistent issue.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 06, 2014, 03:43:04 PM
Just a small tip
In Fel Empire GC you should also add Syca(The planet) to the map and/or also give Fel Empire the KDY, so the Fel Empire(FE) would have a corporation of their own, as they don't have any right now.
You should also add them some kind of SSD building capacity, because the IR starts with 2 Executor class(Reaper and Lusankya), and the Eclipse and they can also build the Night Hammer + two additional sovereigns. that's 6 at the same time if we add it up.
I think it is pretty overpowered, and as an addition the FE's territories are quite scattered with the NR everywhere.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 06, 2014, 04:50:34 PM
Just a small tip
In Fel Empire GC you should also add Syca(The planet) to the map and/or also give Fel Empire the KDY, so the Fel Empire(FE) would have a corporation of their own, as they don't have any right now.
You should also add them some kind of SSD building capacity, because the IR starts with 2 Executor class(Reaper and Lusankya), and the Eclipse and they can also build the Night Hammer + two additional sovereigns. that's 6 at the same time if we add it up.
I think it is pretty overpowered, and as an addition the FE's territories are quite scattered with the NR everywhere.

I don't see how the Fel Empire would differ from EotH in regards to their stance on SSDs. It is still led by Fel (a fighter pilot) and Thrawn (Mr. anti-SSD) and is full of Imperial naval traditionalist heroes who likely resented SSDs in the first place. Besides, The Fel Empire GC as Fel is my personal favorite precisely because you have no immediate answer to the SSDs (with Crimson Command Vic II's, 'shudder') and get totally steamrolled early on. You still have a large powerbase with more financial and population potential than the other two factions.

The Fel Empire GC is not meant to be played as the IR because the EaW AI only recognizes one primary enemy, which is the NR for both EotH and IR. This means that EotH would rather murder the NR rather than resist Palpatine which ruins the fun for the IR.

Why no Syca to go with Nirauan? Because Fel Empire is THE Empire at campaign start date, not EotH and you are not supposed to spam EotH designs everywhere when you've already got EotH space stations and ground garrisons to represent EotH's support for Fel.

---

There's a new admiral in town. He is a Duros with considerable tactical skills to go with a real-nice custom flagship. Too bad he has some suicidal tendencies that tend to get him killed in critical battles. Also, a couple of new planets (Lantillies and Oplovis) need to be put on the map and then I'm ready to continue GC designing.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 06, 2014, 05:13:40 PM
I can haz Eriadu Authority GC?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mat8876 on November 07, 2014, 06:09:46 AM
Shadow Hand works just fine for me and all the heroes spawn correctly, so I don't know why this is happening for you.
Have you made any personal modding before or after installing?
Also, are you sure you installed over 2.1 rather than 2.0? IIRC the file location of the Shadow Hand changed after 2.0 so this could be causing problems.
Did you restart ICW and tried starting a new Shadow Hand GC as the NR again? It could be connected to a single play-session rather than be a persistent issue.
It still doesn't work I've got ICW 2.1 with 2.15 patch with sub-mod 3.1 and I have restarted ICW and computer and still doesn't work it is also not doing the opening crawl and the mission log is the same as it was in the original game i.e. destroy death star as one of them. And no one introduces me to the campaign.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 07, 2014, 06:58:58 AM
It still doesn't work I've got ICW 2.1 with 2.15 patch with sub-mod 3.1 and I have restarted ICW and computer and still doesn't work it is also not doing the opening crawl and the mission log is the same as it was in the original game i.e. destroy death star as one of them. And no one introduces me to the campaign.

It appears that the campaign story script is not working for some reason, but there are likely other things in play here as well with vanilla campaign stuff popping up. If you can PM me your XML folder I could have a look to make sure nothing is out of place there, that would be a good start to finding the issue.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 16, 2014, 10:53:55 AM
I should have a new GC and update ready sometime next week. Just need to switch Pentastar starting heroes to buildable ones and add starting fleets for everyone. This is the Zsinj-Kaine-Teradoc-New Republic 2nd Fleet brawl and first of the two Post-Endor GCs.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 17, 2014, 04:23:18 AM
Great, you have to give us a new version as Dragon Age Inquisition comes out... bastard!  I have enough hard choices to make this week!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 17, 2014, 07:00:15 AM
I discovered 2 small bugs. None of them serious though.
1st: The defender fleet in Roche (Post-Zsinj Campaign) is facing to the wrong direction.
2nd: The pirate interceptors of the hutts in the same GC. Their death animation, and the hardpoint death animations are still in the base game's size, so when one of them dies suddenly a large ship is braking to parts...
:P
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 18, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
I should have a new GC and update ready sometime next week. Just need to switch Pentastar starting heroes to buildable ones and add starting fleets for everyone. This is the Zsinj-Kaine-Teradoc-New Republic 2nd Fleet brawl and first of the two Post-Endor GCs.
I definitely vote to Zsin. No, Kaine, No Terradoc... Why is that I can't decide between these three?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on November 18, 2014, 06:06:36 PM
I definitely vote to Zsin. No, Kaine, No Terradoc... Why is that I can't decide between these three?

I like Zsinj and Kaine, but can't stand Teradoc.  While I like the Crimson Command, I dislike Teradoc's cowardly command style.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 19, 2014, 01:28:40 AM
I like Zsinj and Kaine, but can't stand Teradoc.  While I like the Crimson Command, I dislike Teradoc's cowardly command style.

I like Zsinj and Kaine, Zsinj especially from his personality in the X Wing novels he amuses me greatly. I like the Crimson Command, but I really want to get my hands on Delvardus's Warlord Kingdom.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 19, 2014, 01:34:59 AM
Will Leonia Tavira and Kosh Teradoc be making their appearance in this new GC?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 19, 2014, 06:25:16 PM
I like Zsinj and Kaine, Zsinj especially from his personality in the X Wing novels he amuses me greatly.

Agreed, the cultured evil genius was good fun, and I especially enjoyed the psychological games he played - the dinner for the Hawk-bats was great.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 20, 2014, 08:03:04 AM
Agreed, the cultured evil genius was good fun, and I especially enjoyed the psychological games he played - the dinner for the Hawk-bats was great.

Very much so. I loved his little quirks. When he has the rampage after Dr. Gast defects, or when he forbids General Melvar from ever mentioning New Oldtown again as he shudders at how horrible the name is. He was such a delightful villain.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 20, 2014, 08:02:03 PM
He was also great at the little personal touches - meeting pirate and merc groups face to face, calling even captains of minor ships by their first names, routinely rewarding his people for good work, etc.  A good villain to be sure.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 21, 2014, 03:22:19 AM
He was also great at the little personal touches - meeting pirate and merc groups face to face, calling even captains of minor ships by their first names, routinely rewarding his people for good work, etc.  A good villain to be sure.

He was very good at that. He rewarded talent and punished incompetence and treason. His tactics were also nearly unbeatable in that he operated as stateless, massively used deception and his policy of not fighting on the enemies chosen battleground may have limited opportunities for decisive victories but also prevented him from experiencing tactically decisive defeat. Had Notsil not sabotaged him at Vahaba and Selagis the Hunt for Zsinj might have gone on for another few years. He was crippled from Galactic domination by the Maldrood, New Republic and Imperial Forces all attacking him at once but he had a solid power base and forces to last a long time. He could have held out for half a decade.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 21, 2014, 08:22:38 AM
He was also great at the little personal touches - meeting pirate and merc groups face to face, calling even captains of minor ships by their first names, routinely rewarding his people for good work, etc.  A good villain to be sure.
I wouldn't even call him a villain, just someone opposing the NR, or a negative character.
You know, every story can be sound different if told from the other side.
Of course the Empire was evil, but this doesn't mean every imperial was evil. If you ask me, Zsinj was one of the most honorable man in the Empire. Maybe he was on the bad side, but he was loyal, and obedient. If he got an order, no matter what it was he always did his best, even when he had to kill his own mother.
If we look from this side, he was not bad at all.
Yeah, he had his tweaks, but this is can be blamed on the Empire.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on November 21, 2014, 09:20:33 AM
I wouldn't even call him a villain, just someone opposing the NR, or a negative character.
You know, every story can be sound different if told from the other side.
Of course the Empire was evil, but this doesn't mean every imperial was evil. If you ask me, Zsinj was one of the most honorable man in the Empire. Maybe he was on the bad side, but he was loyal, and obedient. If he got an order, no matter what it was he always did his best, even when he had to kill his own mother.
If we look from this side, he was not bad at all.
Yeah, he had his tweaks, but this is can be blamed on the Empire.

Antihero.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 21, 2014, 12:21:27 PM
He truly believed the Ends justified the means. He was just with his allies and client worlds, he apparently had a stable working form of government(albeit one that apparently couldn't function without him based on events after his death.) He managed to make the elite Raptors, invented brand new tech and fighters and apparently was more than willing to do what he felt needed to be done to accomplish his ends.

Kaine was similar. Probably why both He and Zsinj commanded the most respect and power after Endor of the Warlords.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 21, 2014, 06:09:19 PM
Just a small thing...
Could you please change that ugly pink color to brown in skirmish, because i really want to play brown  ;D
or the dark grey, 'cuz if someone plays that color, in the minimap you are unable to tell that it's neutral, or his...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 22, 2014, 02:19:29 AM
Oh, I definitely consider Zsinj a villain, not an antihero.  He forcibly brainwashed people into committing acts of murder and terrorism, was willing to kill his people over breaches of discipline (such as playing a game while on duty), was happy to destroy non-military targets like bacta convoys... he's solidly in villain camp as far as I'm concerned.  But he's the best kind of villain, one that still has a code of sorts, one whose great successes came from brilliance rather than raw strength, one who is ruthless rather than sadistic, one who makes you wonder "in his shoes, would I truly do all that differently?"

As much as I enjoy the Marvel series of movies, they tend to present pretty crappy cardboard cut-out villains, with the exceptions of Loki and Magneto (Magneto especially).  They could learn a lot from a character like Zsinj.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 22, 2014, 03:58:16 AM
Oh, I definitely consider Zsinj a villain, not an antihero.  He forcibly brainwashed people into committing acts of murder and terrorism, was willing to kill his people over breaches of discipline (such as playing a game while on duty), was happy to destroy non-military targets like bacta convoys... he's solidly in villain camp as far as I'm concerned.  But he's the best kind of villain, one that still has a code of sorts, one whose great successes came from brilliance rather than raw strength, one who is ruthless rather than sadistic, one who makes you wonder "in his shoes, would I truly do all that differently?"

As much as I enjoy the Marvel series of movies, they tend to present pretty crappy cardboard cut-out villains, with the exceptions of Loki and Magneto (Magneto especially).  They could learn a lot from a character like Zsinj.


Couldn't agree more in this respect. As mentioned, he felt his ends justify his means so as long as it was for hie 'greater good' any action was justified. As to executing personel for derilection of duty, well considering the things Vader and other Warlords executed their men for Zsinj seems rather urbane by comparison and he did balance this with greatly rewarding soldiers who did excel in their work.

As it goes if I were an Imperial in post Endor main Galaxy, I'd have placed my flag in the camp of Zsinj due to his aggression against the NR, then Kaine due to his Imperial Ideals and stability, Thrawn for taking the fight to the NR again and Pellaeon for the same reasons respectively in that order.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 22, 2014, 05:29:08 PM
As it goes if I were an Imperial in post Endor main Galaxy, I'd have placed my flag in the camp of Zsinj due to his aggression against the NR, then Kaine due to his Imperial Ideals and stability, Thrawn for taking the fight to the NR again and Pellaeon for the same reasons respectively in that order.
Almost exactly the same. I can only wonder what would have happened if Kaine and Zsinj would make an alliance, and cooperate. I think the whole galaxy would have lied at their feet.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 23, 2014, 02:52:48 AM
Almost exactly the same. I can only wonder what would have happened if Kaine and Zsinj would make an alliance, and cooperate. I think the whole galaxy would have lied at their feet.

Well they did somewhat cooperate in that there were only small skirmishes along their border and Kaine did trade with Zsinj as well as the D'Asta Clan(Which were inside the PA's borders loaned vessels to one of Zsinj's Admirals(Banjeer I think it was) so to an extent they cooexisted in relative cooperation, but they could never have been allies, they both wanted different things.Zsinj wanted Galactic domination with himself at the top, Kaine wanted to be create a new future for the New Order in the New Territories and though he was not Emperor of this in name, he was in fact. Any coalition with these two dominant personalities would have eventually come to a head.(Much as Shu Han and Wu did during the Three Kingdoms era of China) They were both former servants of an Emperor and suddenly after Endor they WERE Emperors in fact if not name. They never would have surrendered that authority again.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 23, 2014, 03:52:19 AM

Couldn't agree more in this respect. As mentioned, he felt his ends justify his means so as long as it was for hie 'greater good' any action was justified. As to executing personel for derilection of duty, well considering the things Vader and other Warlords executed their men for Zsinj seems rather urbane by comparison and he did balance this with greatly rewarding soldiers who did excel in their work.

Oh, very true.  Even Thrawn, arguably the moral high ground of Imperial warlords, executed a man for incompetence.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 24, 2014, 05:19:36 AM
Oh, very true.  Even Thrawn, arguably the moral high ground of Imperial warlords, executed a man for incompetence.

And both knowingly and willingly kept the Noghri in permanent indentured servitude.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 24, 2014, 04:09:06 PM
And both knowingly and willingly kept the Noghri in permanent indentured servitude.

Yeah, but that was so artistically done... ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on November 25, 2014, 05:57:32 AM
Yeah, but that was so artistically done... ;)

Ah! I see what you did there...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 25, 2014, 02:30:55 PM
I don't want to be impatient, but... WHEN WILL THAT RELEASE COME?
I can't wait...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on November 26, 2014, 12:30:30 AM
I don't want to be impatient, but... WHEN WILL THAT RELEASE COME?
I can't wait...

Sorry to say, but real life has taken over 100%, so I have no time to work on the submod here, for now.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on November 26, 2014, 12:47:39 AM
We forgive you.  The current iteration is plenty of work that I wouldn't have done myself, so I thank you for it. :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on November 28, 2014, 11:41:16 AM
i found something really interesting.
If you play the Post-Zsinj campaign with Greater Maldrood, there are Hutts with two planets, Ylesia and Nal Hutta.The interesting part is that, if it is played with IR, PA or NR those planets nowhere to be found...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on December 15, 2014, 03:19:24 AM
Oh, I definitely consider Zsinj a villain, not an antihero.  He forcibly brainwashed people into committing acts of murder and terrorism, was willing to kill his people over breaches of discipline (such as playing a game while on duty), was happy to destroy non-military targets like bacta convoys... he's solidly in villain camp as far as I'm concerned.  But he's the best kind of villain, one that still has a code of sorts, one whose great successes came from brilliance rather than raw strength, one who is ruthless rather than sadistic, one who makes you wonder "in his shoes, would I truly do all that differently?"

As much as I enjoy the Marvel series of movies, they tend to present pretty crappy cardboard cut-out villains, with the exceptions of Loki and Magneto (Magneto especially).  They could learn a lot from a character like Zsinj.

Oh I completely agree. I love how while some of the Imperial's are sadistic tyrants worthy of the SS or Gestapo in ruthlessness and cruelty, there are others who are mediums, some who are genuinely good and other that are in a grey area. It gives you a feeling that these are indeed people and believable.Thrawn, Rogriss, Pellaeon were devoted to Order and lasting Peace, Zsinj and Kaine to their own vision of that Order and stability, Isard and Daala for all their wanton destruction truly loved the Empire that died at Endor and sought to recreate it, Krennal sought only to rule his own little Empire with an Iron fist, while Delvardus, Teradoc Harrsk wanted Galactic Domination to feed their egos. Each had their own motives and reasons but they were each believable. Marvel does a poor job with a lot of it's villains in that they are, Mwahahaha I'm evil and for some poorly defined(If at all defined) reason that makes no sense. Some of these Imps and Warlords pursued what they genuinely thought was the best course of action for not only themselves but for the Galaxy as a whole.
Zsinj had moments where as a character he was genuinely likeable, the Dinner scene, those little parts where he offers passes, promotions and pay raises for those who are loyal and do well. Even when he is being evil you get a sense of the man as not doing these things because he's a psycho like Sidious but that to him the end justifies these extreme actions. Think about it from his view, the central government has collapsed, as a human male in the military you would have been taught humans were the true acme of greatness and that other species were like animals(Lara Notsil even thought this way before she turned to the Wraiths) and you use animals. You have a massive fleet under your command but now some poloticians who are incompetent are telling you to abandon your OverSector and all you've built there and run to protect them. Or you can lock down you territory, do what you've always wanted to do and rule accordingly. You KNOW you are better than most if not all of the other contenders and ONLY you can bring back order to this chaos. All that stands before you is a fragmented and poorly led Empire, an obese egocentric Warlord who can't even pacify the Hutts and the hodgepodge of Rebels. What would YOU do in his boots?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on December 15, 2014, 06:55:03 PM
I'd say that Zsinj's greatest mistake was not using diplomacy enough with the major govts that were left.  He had a great carrot+stick approach with individual planets, but I don't know that he tried at all to seek even temporary peace with the IR or the NR, and what undid him was those two govts working together to defeat him.  Had he held back from attacking the NR, tossed the Provisional Council an offer of peace (or even alliance against the IR), he would have had more time to expand and secure his borders while focusing his military might against one enemy at a time.  Instead he got stuck in a two-front war.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on December 16, 2014, 02:50:06 AM
I'd say that Zsinj's greatest mistake was not using diplomacy enough with the major govts that were left.  He had a great carrot+stick approach with individual planets, but I don't know that he tried at all to seek even temporary peace with the IR or the NR, and what undid him was those two govts working together to defeat him.  Had he held back from attacking the NR, tossed the Provisional Council an offer of peace (or even alliance against the IR), he would have had more time to expand and secure his borders while focusing his military might against one enemy at a time.  Instead he got stuck in a two-front war.

Well he did use diplomacy right after Endor. He feigned nominal allegiance to the IR, coexisted at least largely peacefully with the PA and he did not attack the NR so in turn other than two battles they left Zsinj alone. This allowed him to solidify his power base unlike some of the other Warlords who blitzed right away and imploded(Delvardus, Grunger, Drommel and Pitta come to mind) Once that was set and Isard with her SSD were killed(Or at least believed to be) and Kaine being completely Isolationist Zsinj had to act. The legitamate government was destroyed and the IR was governed by squabbling Moffs, it's capital had fallen so he saw it as no threat, even better by striking at the NR he could show himself as the Empire's savior and successor(Which attracted large amounts of disgruntled and disillusioned former Imperial Forces to his banner. If he had made peace of alliance with the NR that would have sent a lot of his supporters and governors scurrying AWAY from him as many of them WERE Imperials. Don't forget Teradoc and Kaine were both right next door and Zsinj couldn't afford to have them both absorb new forces and become stronger.
His tactical reasoning and strategic goals were sound-until he attacked the IR at Kuat. I know WHY he did this, the IR didn't recognize him as a legal government, for all intents and purposes to the Moffs he was the same as the rebels. He needed to deprive a potential enemy of a flagship that could challenge Iron Fist, and if he could GAIN said vessel too that would drastically increase his power, prestige and even sway more systems that he was the new power and would be the last one standing.
Had it not been for the Wraiths sabatoge he would have gotten away with it and with his consistant growth and the fact that until he was both sabatoged and betrayed by Lara Notsil he really hadn't been dealt crippling blows and was more or less holding his own. His expansion had been stopped by Rogriss and Solo's efforts but his economy was still self sustaining, his shipyards hidden and his power base secure.
Honestly even with the two front war he was more or less holding his own-though barely. Had it not been for the incredibly unlucky sequence of events that led to his death at Dathomir he might have remained a Galactic power for another Decade.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on December 16, 2014, 04:24:18 AM
Good points all there.  I retract my objection.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on December 16, 2014, 09:57:02 AM
Good points all there.  I retract my objection.

Zsinj was destroyed by a combination of betrayal, bad intel fed to him by said betrayal and incredibly bad luck.

Incidentally have there been any updates for the sub mod? I've been out of things for a bit.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on December 16, 2014, 02:57:53 PM
Incidentally have there been any updates for the sub mod? I've been out of things for a bit.

No new updates. I've been too busy with other stuff to do anything here. I'll try to get things started for Eriadu Authority and the second Post-Endor GC once my Christmas break starts rather than releasing the Zsinj-Kaine-Teradoc GC alone (which is like 95% finished) since those two are a connected.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: NeoSigma on December 16, 2014, 10:14:14 PM
No idea if this is a vanilla bug (probably) but I've been playing the Art of War GC as Empire of the Hand. At a certain point on week 101 the game hangs and freezes, forcing me to CTR+ALT+DEL to exit the game. Is there any solution or is this game lost?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on December 17, 2014, 02:19:56 AM
No new updates. I've been too busy with other stuff to do anything here. I'll try to get things started for Eriadu Authority and the second Post-Endor GC once my Christmas break starts rather than releasing the Zsinj-Kaine-Teradoc GC alone (which is like 95% finished) since those two are a connected.

Much appreciation Vulcanus. I finally got a laptop and some wifi up and running for my deployment, your submob has been a great way to close out the days over here. Can't wait to get my hands on the Eriadu Authority.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on December 17, 2014, 10:32:27 AM
No idea if this is a vanilla bug (probably) but I've been playing the Art of War GC as Empire of the Hand. At a certain point on week 101 the game hangs and freezes, forcing me to CTR+ALT+DEL to exit the game. Is there any solution or is this game lost?

This is most likely the dreaded freeze, which is a vanilla bug. Use the Defreezer http://www.moddb.com/mods/thrawns-revenge/downloads/unit-selection-freeze-fixer-utility (http://www.moddb.com/mods/thrawns-revenge/downloads/unit-selection-freeze-fixer-utility) to fix it.

Incidentally I'm playing the very same campaign, at week 97.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: NeoSigma on December 18, 2014, 09:50:11 PM
This is most likely the dreaded freeze, which is a vanilla bug. Use the Defreezer http://www.moddb.com/mods/thrawns-revenge/downloads/unit-selection-freeze-fixer-utility (http://www.moddb.com/mods/thrawns-revenge/downloads/unit-selection-freeze-fixer-utility) to fix it.

Incidentally I'm playing the very same campaign, at week 97.

Nah, this is a different issue. I tried the defreezer and it doesn't work for the save, there's still a hang-up. This seems more like game corruption, like a messed up AI move or something.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on December 19, 2014, 12:34:56 AM
does it crash to desktop, or does it just hang forever?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on December 21, 2014, 04:38:22 PM
how are things going with the mod? I'm curious :D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on December 21, 2014, 07:28:20 PM
Stop rushing the man! ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on December 21, 2014, 08:00:46 PM
Stop rushing the man! ;)
I never told him to hurry up, i just ask for a percentage about what's done so far, nothing else.
Don't be that impatient to think others rushing him for you... ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on December 21, 2014, 10:39:52 PM
It's only been 5 days since he stated nothing new, I wouldn't expect much to change considering the time of year it is.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on December 21, 2014, 11:24:25 PM
I never told him to hurry up, i just ask for a percentage about what's done so far, nothing else.
Don't be that impatient to think others rushing him for you... ;)

Reverse psychology is of the dark side.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on December 22, 2014, 05:56:31 PM
Patience.  Remember Alderaan wasn't destroyed in a day...wait, nevermind. Bad example.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on December 22, 2014, 07:22:27 PM
Patience.  Remember Alderaan wasn't destroyed in a day...wait, nevermind. Bad example.

EXACTLY...it was destroyed in 5 minutes.  :D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: NeoSigma on December 26, 2014, 11:38:15 PM
does it crash to desktop, or does it just hang forever?

It hangs forever.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 14, 2015, 04:40:54 AM
Other than the new GCs, any plans to make the Warlords factions playable in other pre existing GCs?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 15, 2015, 02:13:39 PM
Other than the new GCs, any plans to make the Warlords factions playable in other pre existing GCs?
That would be great.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 16, 2015, 01:33:39 AM
That would be great.

Hasn't been any activity here in a while, I wonder how things are progressing.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 19, 2015, 03:34:09 PM
Well, if you want something to happen, then I'll write a GC strategy tip here for the PA, just like I did in here:
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=4857.40 (http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=4857.40)
I will start working on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 21, 2015, 07:11:37 AM
Sorry, but yesterday there was too much job to be done, so I made it today.
This is based on my post here:http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=4857.new#new
So pls read the base tactic for PA first. If something differs because the extra, I will let you know...

Sign explanation:
RED GLOW: Hard Era, you have to be careful.
GREEN GLOW: Easy Era, you should use your time to strengthen your forces as much as you can before changing Era.
ORANGE GLOW: Medium to Hard Era, but should not have too much difficulty if you can use good tactics.
YELLOW GLOW: Something really important in the current Era. Pay attention to these informations, and always keep them in mind.
Pally is Palpatine, and not Palleon. just wanted to make sure there will be no misunderstanding...




Pentastar Alignment Multiera GC Strategy

I will come with examples from Art of War, because that have the most planets with every playable fraction in it.

Era 1
First off, go to the defensive against the IR and the EotH and quickly create a more solid frontier with the IR by quickly taking the neutral Garqi first, and then Ithor from the NR and Ciutric from the IR. If you feel like you can manage it, you can also take Wayland(I always take it, so I will tell you this expecting you did so).
After this is done, you have to build up your economy ASAP(As Soon As Possible).
The planets I recommend you to build up your Tax Collection Agencies(TCA from now on) are Bastion, Muunilinst, Gravlex Med and Anx Minor.
Use the bonus given to you by Gregor Raquoran. It does matter a lot if you spend 500 or 375 creds on a TCA. if we see things for 5, it costs 2500 without bonus, and 1875 with it. You spare more than 600 credits, what really counts.
I might not have to say to redirect all your fleets to Borosk, Ithor, Wayland and Anx Minor.
Don't forget that with 2.15[beta] patch Zsinj has an AI what will eventually attack you. I recommend separating Kaine and Jerec, and sending one to Ithor, and the other to Wayland, as the IR's Executors and Issard will most possibly pop up there.
I recommend you to send the Preator IIs you get at beggining to Borosk, so EotH will have a hard time there with you.
Build 2 Hypevelocity Gun(HVG from now on) to each of your border planets, and only start building Gollans after that.
When you feel strong enough to protect Ithor or Wayland without Kaine and/or Jerec send one of them with a huge ground force straight to Kuat without conquering any planet, and invade Kuat. When that's done, build up 2 HVG there and build up to Capital
Shipyards. After that the 2 Golan III, 2 Golan II and a Golan I. A defensive fleet could also come handy there. When that's done, and you feel like they will never take Kuat, not even with an SSD, then send Kaine/Jerec back straight to Anx Minor.
While you wait for the credits to come in for your build able Vengeance-class SSD, you should start invading Zsinj's starting planets. They are easy to be defended, and have great base income. Maybe not Tangrene, but Kauron and Telos have +160 base income, and the corporate sector is good too. You should build up 5 TCAs in each one of them(except Tangrene).


Era 2
For this time, Issard should have been killed by you, so I continue it from Era 2. after the Corporate sector is dealt with, you can turn your attention back to Telos, and from there you should conquer Yavin and Phindar, while from Wayland you start an invasion on Selaggis and Garos IV. after you have this done, turn your fleet from Garros back to Wayland, and take Dathomir too. As long as you can hold Phindar's space you don't have to worry for Garos. Now you have a decent income, some extra heroes, special units and your front lines only stand from 4 planets, Borosk, Ithor, Wayland and Phindar. You should start to build your extra Vengeance ASAP.

Era 3:
For now, Thrawn should be dead by now, so hope you are prepared for the worst. Get your heroes and your newly built Vengeance out of the front line ASAP, because it's not healthy for them to be hit with a superlaser.
You may also want to strengthen Phindar, because NR have Wedge from now on, and he will not disappear like in base ICW.
Try to kill Pally ASAP. Search for him, and kill him, no matter the cost.

Era 4:
Quickly take Mon Calamari for extra Preator II source and as much IR and NR Capital shipyards as you can before Era 5, but basically the same as the base tactic.

Era 5:
The exact same of the base tactic.


Have a nice, and easy Victory.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on January 21, 2015, 06:12:32 PM
Some thoughts to add to Kucsidave's...

With the recruitment changes to the PA in this submod, your starting ship roster is incredibly limited - IIRC, none of your starting planets can produce either Vic, leaving a heavy cruiser-sized hole in your lineup, and some ships like Venators are only buildable at one or two planets, so it can pay to expand while keeping in mind the new ships you'll be opening up as you do so.  The CSA in the north-east corner isn't just a great early-game target because of its high credit planets, but now also because it'll provide your only access to VSD1s until you reach the Core.  If you don't take many losses hitting Garqi and Ithor (and with an SSD leading the charge you shouldn't), consider pushing further south a bit before setting up a defensive line - Levian 2 is a great choke point and provides access to VSD2s, and an early push to Bilbringi will give you ISD2 access as well as another great choke point as well as denying the Hand another level 3 shipyard.  Speaking of the Hand, a lightning strike at Nirauan at the very start of the game can also pay dividends - with a little luck you can catch their starting hero fleet and have an SSD rip it to shreds, and taking the planet gives you a choke point just as good as Borosk as well as some info on all planets neighboring your own anywhere, while also cutting a decent chunk of the Hand's income.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 22, 2015, 04:30:25 PM
Some disagreement with Pali...
I know the small base list, but you have to consider the following things, what you seemed to forget about.
First: I think I told to conquer the CSA in Era 1, so this info was completely useless, since this is a base thing. If someone don't know this himself, he/she shouldn't play this game.
Second:, if you push down from Wayland to Levian, you might get a chokepoint, but you also expanded the borders from 4 to 5 planets, and with the starting units you get it is hard to defend 5 planets at the same time. There are two options for this, protect one with all your fleet and leave a goddamn hole somewhere, or two: scatter up your forces, and spend extra credits on the fortification(what you do not have any to waist at the moment) and let your lines shatter when Issard pops up in your half prepared lines.
Third: Why push to Bilbringi, and have Levian Two when you have Kuat very early, where you can build both ISD IIs, VSD IIs, Tector class SDs, and even the extra Vengeance class? It makes no sense to have at least 6 border planets instead of 4 when you don't have credits to build up strong defenses everywhere. Maybe the problem shall not be seen immediately, but if Issard and Thrawn dies quickly, then you will be in a whole lot of trouble with Palpatine.
Always hope the best, but also prepare for the worst, that's my motto.
I also have to admit that you make sense with Nirauan.
Don't misunderstand, I only tell this because I know stuff like this a bit better. I play PA most of the times(90%), and if not that then IR, and the two is very similar.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on January 22, 2015, 06:12:39 PM
1) You did not mention the CSA in the post above, and since the point of strategy guides is to provide help to people who don't know how to play, it seemed sensible to do so.  Similarly, you didn't mention the recruitment system.
2) I tend to take the CSA with Jerec and a handful of frigates, which can handle anything the NR or Warlords can throw at you in that area for some time, while Kaine gets a similar force and Grant gets the starting Praetors backing him up in a third fleet.  Kaine hits Nirauan while Grant starts clearing out space defenses from Ciutric to Levian.  Ideally, my defensive line after a few weeks is Nirauan, Bilbringi, Levian 2, Wayland and Telos, and the middle three are close enough together that it's not hard to rush a fleet from one to another.  With the CSA and your starting Banking Clan planets pumping out credits, you should by now be at well over 10k a week income, plenty to support building up fortifications and new ships.  Isard's popping up unexpectedly can be a problem, but a quick recombination of Kaine and Grant's fleets can usually take her out without much trouble (SSD matches her, Praetors and Grant bonuses give the edge).  Defending on the ground at many of these planets is also quite viable, and usually cheaper than defending in space.
3) Kuat's a mid-game goal for me with the PA.  While being able to build new SSDs is nice, you've already got two at the start of the game, as well as the ability to build Praetors - what your fleet is lacking are heavy cruisers and carriers, meaning Venators, Lukrehulks, Vics and ISD2s, and taking the CSA, Levian and Bilbringi gives you a decent number of shipyards able to pump those ships out.  I usually prefer to not take planets in isolation as well, so a quick run down to Kuat without taking the planets along the way isn't my style - when I start my mid-game push to the Core, Kuat's my primary target, but I take every planet along the way too.  Oh, and Bilbringi's other advantage is that ships built there can easily be sent to link up with your other fleets - an isolated Kuat would be sending ships through enemy territory.
4) I wasn't trying to challenge your strategies or claim mine as better, just provide alternate or additional food for thought.  But I think it a bit presumptuous of you to claim to know the PA better than I do when you have no way to know how much experience I have with them.  I made no such claim of superior knowledge regarding you - I viewed our posted strategy ideas as complementary or alternative, not conflicting - but I have spent a significant amount of time as the PA as they're my number two faction behind the NR.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 23, 2015, 03:15:33 AM
I would make some small revisions to these strategies. The main threats to you are from the IR first then the EotH second. The Warlords will be quickly killed off by the major Galactic powers so leave them for later. Put Kaine, Jerec and some of your starting vessels into a single fleet. Your remaining vessels should be put on your two choke point planets and those planets fortified.
Immediately strike Niraun and burn it to the ground. Hopefully you will kill the EotH hero list and also hurt their economy as well as gaining the information the HoT provides on enemy planets. HUNT Isard down. Kill her and the IR can't build SSDs(Your primary threat) As soon as she is dead, go take Kuat, Bilbringi, Fondor and Byss. This drastically reduces the IR's ability to build ISDs(And later will deny them the ability to build Sovereigns, Praetors and Executors) It will also limit the IR from being able to protect itself from the NR and Warlords weakening them further.
Form here your next target after having crippled the IR is to eradicate the EotH(Which should just be getting it's power up) Smash them completely and use their planets as resource gathering(I.E. Lots of Tax centers and stations.)
After EotH is dead, if the Warlords are still alive(VERY unlikely) take them out to get Zsinj's territory. By this point in terms of power it should be You, the NR and a dying IR in that order. The NR should pose no problem for your economy and resources. You can recover losses and basically steamroll them, then finish the IR off at your leisure.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on January 23, 2015, 05:03:40 AM
I guess I just prefer the more methodical, economy-centric approach. ;) Like I said, I'm not a big fan of taking planets in isolation, so lightning strikes deep into enemy territory to take places like Kuat and Byss aren't my style (I don't do them as the NR either).  Considering the AI's stupidity, I don't mind if they get a few Executors out, so taking Isard out ASAP isn't at the top of my list - I actually prefer to let her live a while, as Thrawn often dies fairly quickly in the games I've played, so era 3 often comes quite quickly after era 1 ends, and Sovs are more of a threat to the PA given their superlasers mixing badly with Kaine/Jerec than Executors are.  Part of the advantage to focusing on the economy early on is that when facing SSDs later, you don't mind losing a couple ships in the process, since you can afford to (plus, they tend to provide really fun, epic battles).

I'm also not sure I agree with putting Kaine and Jerec in the same fleet, particularly under this submod, since only one SSD can be deployed at a time given the pop increase to 24.  At least, that is unless you've altered the space pop cap, which I tend to prefer to have at 50 rather than 40, but while two SSDs at once can be fun, I prefer a single plus effective escorts anyways.  Still, this is part of the great fun of any decent strategy game: comparing the various approaches people use. :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on January 23, 2015, 05:35:58 AM
I rarely use SSDs as the Alignment for any offensive strategic maneuvers or build Hypervelocity cannons. Makes the game too easy for me. Instead I just stash Kaine and Jerec at any border planet and keep them there, only using them to counter any marauding enemy SSDs or sending them to rampage all over the map if one of the AI factions is getting too powerful.

For Pentastar fleet compositions: Combat Escort Carriers/IPVs/Neb-Bs and your starting Munificents are a very effective assault fleet combo early in the game, and they are still good later on to use as inexpensive counter-attacking fleets.
Micromanaging Howlrunners and TIE Hunters to clear way for Skiprays. Pentastar ships have very few bombers, so maximising effectiveness for Skiprays is a must and Howlrunners and Hunters are great at stalling superior enemy fighters.
Acclamators as long as you can build them at any defensive fleets where their armor makes them very survivable and you'll have enough time to launch all of its fighter complement (even if its not worth much).
Munificent Missile Frigates to counter EotH fighter spam.
Venators everywhere, but you are just wasting pop cap points if you have more than two in a fleet. They are very good by themselves, but ISD-heavy Imp fleets annihilate them.
Getting Michael Unther from Carida isn't easy, but he is worth the effort. His special ability combined with the advanced Skiprays you get from Coruscant brings death to Golans.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on January 23, 2015, 08:05:26 AM
I must say I was a bit surprised by the Neb-B choice - I rarely use them even as the NR.  Though now that I think about it, they are the only PA ship I can think of that gets power to shields, and another fighter squadron never hurts.  The NR has better alternatives for whatever role you'd use a Neb-B for, so maybe I'm just bringing a bias against them. ;)

And yes, Hunters and Skiprays are sexy. :) Strang from Dathomir is another good addition to anti-structure squads, with 3 (4?) squads of Hunters and lots of torps.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 23, 2015, 01:25:04 PM
Well, I have to admit if you look that way everyone is right, but I build up my forces very differently.
I mostly use the Preators combined with some Escort Carriers, and tartans at late game. This should bring everything to it's knees.
I only use the SSDs in early game. In mid and late game, I only use them to hunt down Pally and Daala, but not always. Sometimes I manage it with only the Preators and the small escort fleets...
My way of thinking: DO NOT LOOSE ANY SHIP. That's why i don't like the NR. Their ships are easy to kill...
If I lose a ship, i consider the whole battle as a defeat, no matter the outcome.
I don't want my men to die...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on January 23, 2015, 04:46:11 PM
One thing I will always credit the Total War series of games for is teaching me to accept losses.  I still hate them, but...

And my Mon Cals can take quite a bit of a pounding. ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 24, 2015, 03:28:03 AM

My way of thinking: DO NOT LOOSE ANY SHIP. That's why i don't like the NR. Their ships are easy to kill...
If I lose a ship, i consider the whole battle as a defeat, no matter the outcome.
I don't want my men to die...

That's because most of the NR ships are carrier and frigate based til late game. They are not meant to come to grips with the Battlecruisers, but to send in swarms of fighters and bombers while using their speed to stay away from the big guns while the fighters/bombers take them apart. That said they do have the power to crack open anti starfighter ships.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on January 24, 2015, 05:37:58 AM
Yep, it's pretty much all about the fighters as the NR until era 4.  An MC80b vs an ISD1 is actually a pretty close match in my experience, but only when fighters are considered.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 31, 2015, 10:21:30 AM
How are you doing with the stuff? I just wanna know, don't feel yourself rushed.
If you don't complete it in 24 hours, I'll find you and... Now you can feel rushed... ;)
Just kidding ;D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on January 31, 2015, 03:15:08 PM
How are you doing with the stuff? I just wanna know, don't feel yourself rushed.
If you don't complete it in 24 hours, I'll find you and... Now you can feel rushed... ;)
Just kidding ;D

You want updates, so here goes: I'm still busy with a lot of things that have nothing to do with modding. I'm also contributing to another FoC modding project that takes much of my modding-dedicated free time.

However: Progress has been made since Christmas. Eriadu Authority is halfway implemented to the game, and the Kaine-Zsinj-Teradoc GC is only missing multimedia scripts. I'm not in much of a hurry here so the plan is to finish these and the southern part of the Post-Endor GC to be released after ICW 2.2.
In the meantime I could put together the playable-Zsinj Art of War campaign, at least in its basic version, with new IR tech progression to fit Zsinj, possibly also for Thrawn's EotH/Imp hybrid, but no events for reborn Palpatine or more advanced EotH unit system I've planned but never bothered to implement.

So if you have any ideas for how Imps should tech up under Zsinj's leadership, I'm open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 01, 2015, 01:05:07 PM
You want updates, so here goes: I'm still busy with a lot of things that have nothing to do with modding. I'm also contributing to another FoC modding project that takes much of my modding-dedicated free time.

However: Progress has been made since Christmas. Eriadu Authority is halfway implemented to the game, and the Kaine-Zsinj-Teradoc GC is only missing multimedia scripts. I'm not in much of a hurry here so the plan is to finish these and the southern part of the Post-Endor GC to be released after ICW 2.2.
In the meantime I could put together the playable-Zsinj Art of War campaign, at least in its basic version, with new IR tech progression to fit Zsinj, possibly also for Thrawn's EotH/Imp hybrid, but no events for reborn Palpatine or more advanced EotH unit system I've planned but never bothered to implement.

So if you have any ideas for how Imps should tech up under Zsinj's leadership, I'm open to suggestions.

No rush my friend. The longer the wait, the more satisfying the finished product is I often find. I look forward to getting my hands on the Eriadu Authority and the various Warlords in general I always enjoy.

As to Zsinj progression....hmm since he started off with a lot of older Vics and border units while still having a much smaller core of ISDs I'd say something like this.
Tech 1: ISDI, VSDI, Nebulon B,Carrack, Corellian Corvette, Dreadnaught cruiser, ATPT, TIE Mauler, Juggernaught, Stormies, Biker scouts and PLX troopers, smugglers
Tech2:(Only listing new units)ISDII, VSDII, NebulonB2,Assassin Corvette, TIE Raptors, Raptor Troopers, Raptor Speeder Bikes, IDT, ATST, pirates
Tech3:ATAT, Mobile Artillery, SPMAT,Century Tank, sabatoge Raptor units similar to the Defilers but not as OP.
tech 4 and up, liitle change add buildable ssd executors, no superlaser ssds though
Heroes could be somewhat flexible too like the PA perhaps but some set heroes per era
Era 1, Zsinj, Melvar, Banjeer and Terrinald Screed
Era2 Apwar Trigit,Tetran Cowell(fake 181st), Cpt. Netbers(ground hero commando) and Cpt. Darillion(Nightcaller) (But lose Screed and Banjeer)
Era 3 Gethzerion and Nightsisters(Silri type with drain life and force repel or crush) (In addition to the same heores from Era 2 if they didn't die)
Era 4 and 5(Seeing as how this would be in the infinities catagory...your guess is as good as mine)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 01, 2015, 04:40:09 PM
However: Progress has been made since Christmas. Eriadu Authority is halfway implemented to the game,

Will Delvardus be getting the Night Hammer or the Thalassa(Or perhaps both similar to how Daala is in Reunification?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 02, 2015, 04:47:02 AM
I was just joking with the rushing...
About the Zsinj's era advance, I agree with Xizer, but want to add a few things:
Vulcanus knows I have this small database(Table) about every single fractions's land and space units with the production facilities.
Ah, it's so hard to explain...
And when I looked closely, i found out that in Era 1, there is nothing buildable from Heavy Factory in era 1, but there is the Juggernaut from Advanced Factory, so I recommend putting in 2-M Repulsor Tanks to Era 1(or if you don't want it to be so OP, then the TX-130 Saber Tanks instead)...
Maybe Specialists too with the Stormtroopers in Era 1.
Maybe you should also add AT-AA in Era2 to counter the NR's Speeders and V-Wings.

In space, there were no Fighter carrier, so I recommend putting in the Escort Carrier to Era 1.
Also want to highlight that the Interdictors missing too, so Immobilizer 418 in era 2 and Interdictor SD in Era 4.

Oh, and before I forget: RANCOR BASE AS SHIPYARD COMPANY FOR ZSINJ!!!!!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 02, 2015, 01:26:04 PM

In space, there were no Fighter carrier, so I recommend putting in the Escort Carrier to Era 1.
Also want to highlight that the Interdictors missing too, so Immobilizer 418 in era 2 and Interdictor SD in Era 4.

Oh, and before I forget: RANCOR BASE AS SHIPYARD COMPANY FOR ZSINJ!!!!!

The first two I agree with but Rancor Base was not a company, it was just a shipyard Zsinj built. Granted it was the main(possibly only) major one in his territory but it wouldn't serve for cost cutting or such, could just have a bonus in lessened construction time for certain units.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 03, 2015, 08:51:41 AM
The first two I agree with but Rancor Base was not a company, it was just a shipyard Zsinj built. Granted it was the main(possibly only) major one in his territory but it wouldn't serve for cost cutting or such, could just have a bonus in lessened construction time for certain units.
I know about that, but that is the only special shipyard what could be given to Zsinj. If not Rancor base, then what? KDY is already the IR's and Sienar is the PA's. If you know anything better, I'm listening...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 03, 2015, 01:24:40 PM
I know about that, but that is the only special shipyard what could be given to Zsinj. If not Rancor base, then what? KDY is already the IR's and Sienar is the PA's. If you know anything better, I'm listening...

Well I'm not opposed to the idea of Rancor Base giving a bonus of some sort, just not a credit bonus. It should be something vital to the Zsinj Empire's efforts. Like being the only area to get Raptor Space units like the TIE Raptor,or Escort Carriers that launch only TIE Raptors, maybe even a few cloak units as Zsinj was working on Nightcloaks there. It's also the only shipyard to build ISDs and has a much faster production time for VSDs. The planet itself is the only place you should be able to recruit Nightsisters(Which we could also use the base game ones on Rancors in addition to the Silri type models, just no lightwhip.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on February 03, 2015, 02:36:04 PM
The Zsinj - Art of War GC is now playable and era advancement events are implemented as are most of the heroes. Unless there are some unforeseen difficulties, the Imperial leader tech level change is still in place, though they may not be in the camp they used to be. Isard starts independent, Thrawn will be EotH, Palpatine either Eoth or IR depending on the human player (Phalanxes escorting the Eclipse  ;)), Daala IR, Pellaeon EotH.

Next on the schedule. Zsinj IR tech tree. No buildable SSDs, though Zsinj will respawn with the Night Hammer in Era 4. TIE Raptors gradually replacing other TIEs. TIE Defenders partially replacing Raptors in late tech levels. Scimitars appear for EotH instead of IR. No Venators or Acclamators, instead replaced by Coronas in Era 4-5. MTC taking over the carrier duties, though not with TIE Droids. Beef up Raptor ground troops just a bit and make them buildable on Dathomir only. Zsinj will get some of the late era Imp heroes, but Banjeer and Teubbo will fill the gap in Eras 1-3. Fake 181st and Netbers maybe. Same for Nightsisters and sabotage units. Add late-era Ewok TIE Defender hero. Perhaps replace Vic I and II with upgraded Vic Is in late eras. Bonus-providing Rancor Base not likely, unless someone sends me a building icon that's too good not to use.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 03, 2015, 11:33:59 PM
The Zsinj - Art of War GC is now playable and era advancement events are implemented as are most of the heroes. Unless there are some unforeseen difficulties, the Imperial leader tech level change is still in place, though they may not be in the camp they used to be. Isard starts independent, Thrawn will be EotH, Palpatine either Eoth or IR depending on the human player (Phalanxes escorting the Eclipse  ;)), Daala IR, Pellaeon EotH.

Next on the schedule. Zsinj IR tech tree. No buildable SSDs, though Zsinj will respawn with the Night Hammer in Era 4. TIE Raptors gradually replacing other TIEs. TIE Defenders partially replacing Raptors in late tech levels. Scimitars appear for EotH instead of IR. No Venators or Acclamators, instead replaced by Coronas in Era 4-5. MTC taking over the carrier duties, though not with TIE Droids. Beef up Raptor ground troops just a bit and make them buildable on Dathomir only. Zsinj will get some of the late era Imp heroes, but Banjeer and Teubbo will fill the gap in Eras 1-3. Fake 181st and Netbers maybe. Same for Nightsisters and sabotage units. Add late-era Ewok TIE Defender hero. Perhaps replace Vic I and II with upgraded Vic Is in late eras. Bonus-providing Rancor Base not likely, unless someone sends me a building icon that's too good not to use.

Interesting, one extra thought. If Zsinj kills Teradoc off there could be an event that gives Zsinj the Crimson Command as he was the one originally assigned the ships.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 04, 2015, 12:39:28 PM
Bonus-providing Rancor Base not likely, unless someone sends me a building icon that's too good not to use.
AAAAAND, I sent you on in Email
I hope it will be too good not to use...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on February 04, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
AAAAAND, I sent you on in Email
I hope it will be too good not to use...

If this is your own work, nice job! Adding Rancor Base to Zsinj.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 04, 2015, 04:20:05 PM
Yep.
I just took the Imperial Insignia, and draw the face of a rancor into it :D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 05, 2015, 11:58:26 AM
Creative: solution. I should like to see this insignia
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 05, 2015, 05:46:01 PM
Every time I try to send it i get this...
The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator. >:(
And this is barely 6.79 KB
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on February 05, 2015, 06:05:24 PM
Post it to an external photo hosting than link it here with the [ img ] and [ /img ] tags.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 06, 2015, 06:06:13 AM
Ok, i did what was told and this is it's result...
(http://imageshack.com/a/img537/9317/GlYE80.png)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on February 06, 2015, 07:42:41 AM
The ingame icon was sharpened a bit and has blood-red rancor details. Nice work by Kucsidave and thank you :).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 06, 2015, 12:08:18 PM
Now that is one fancy logo kuscave, excellent work indeed
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on February 06, 2015, 11:41:29 PM
Yeah, surprisingly good looking.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 07, 2015, 08:29:36 AM
Thank you all. It really means a lot for me.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 18, 2015, 04:44:18 AM
Awesome forums are back!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 18, 2015, 09:44:26 AM
Awesome forums are back!
YUP.
And ascendancy is also out...
Ah, how I love it, but...
It will only last as long as we wait for B&F submod 3.2 or ICW 2.2 comes out...
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 18, 2015, 01:18:04 PM
YUP.
And ascendancy is also out...
Ah, how I love it, but...
It will only last as long as we wait for B&F submod 3.2 or ICW 2.2 comes out...
lol Indeed, I must say my primary joy at seeing them back up was thoughts of the impending Eriadu Authority and new Warlord playable GCs.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 18, 2015, 02:52:41 PM
lol Indeed, I must say my primary joy at seeing them back up was thoughts of the impending Eriadu Authority and new Warlord playable GCs.
Same here. I simply love the way Zsinj was, and I can't wait to see Eriadu Authority.
Sadly I live in hungary, and it is hard to get the much needed resource material, so I never managed to read but only one, the Iron Fist book from Post Endor, and that was about Zsinj(well, in a way...), and the way he was just captured me, and I said: Hey, finally a bad guy who was not 100% evil, just standing in the wrong side. I hope I will now get to know Eriadu Authority a bit more too.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on February 19, 2015, 12:17:24 AM
Same here. I simply love the way Zsinj was, and I can't wait to see Eriadu Authority.
Sadly I live in hungary, and it is hard to get the much needed resource material, so I never managed to read but only one, the Iron Fist book from Post Endor, and that was about Zsinj(well, in a way...), and the way he was just captured me, and I said: Hey, finally a bad guy who was not 100% evil, just standing in the wrong side. I hope I will now get to know Eriadu Authority a bit more too.

Well! I am right near you in Kosovo for a bit. If you ever lack for reading material I'm more than willing to set you up with my copies. Always good to meet a fellow Warlord Zsinj enthusiast. He's in the X Wing novels mostly Wraith Squadron, Iron Fist and Solo Command with his only other heavy appearance the Courtship of Princess Leia(All of which I have multiple copies of due to moving around with the Army) There's a decent section on him in the Essential Guide to Warfare too. Cheers.
I like the Eriadu Authority because I can respect a man like Delvardus who in his final moments managed to make a deadly knife out of MEDALS to kill his killer rather than beg or panic and also had such good taste in Flagships.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on February 20, 2015, 04:49:46 PM
No thanks, I really don't want to bother you
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on March 07, 2015, 04:44:47 AM
It was quiet here lately... TOO quiet.
So my question is: How are things going for everyone who plays or creates this submod?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 07, 2015, 09:02:33 AM
Indeed. Doing well here. Ready to get hold of the Warlords.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on March 07, 2015, 09:03:03 AM
It was quiet here lately... TOO quiet.
So my question is: How are things going for everyone who plays or creates this submod?

As I said before, expected timeline for next release is after ICW 2.2, though the Zsinj GC may come before that. In the meantime I would suggest following the Yuuzhan Vong at War mod as it will have significant contributions by me and is first on my modding priorities right now.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on March 07, 2015, 09:24:08 AM
As I said before, expected timeline for next release is after ICW 2.2, though the Zsinj GC may come before that. In the meantime I would suggest following the Yuuzhan Vong at War mod as it will have significant contributions by me and is first on my modding priorities right now.
I didn't meant it for the mod. I was meant it like how Xizer answered.
You know, an overall how you're doing thing.
BTW thanks for the tip. I will sure try that mod out.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on March 07, 2015, 10:13:41 AM
I didn't meant it for the mod. I was meant it like how Xizer answered.
You know, an overall how you're doing thing.
BTW thanks for the tip. I will sure try that mod out.

Doing just fine. I did run a short GC recently as the NR. Spearheaded an all-in blitz to the Core with Voon Massa at the  point, scattering the Imps along the way, until running to Isard over Corellia and losing my entire fleet in a single battle but still managed to defeat Isard.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on March 07, 2015, 10:43:16 AM
I need to play a game of ICW again.  With how Corey & friends seem to go on an updating spree every few days, every time I think I'll have time free to play something else, new updates are waiting to try out for TRII:  Ascendency.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on March 13, 2015, 05:02:42 PM
Next on the schedule. Zsinj IR tech tree. No buildable SSDs, though Zsinj will respawn with the Night Hammer in Era 4. [...]
I've been thinking a lot in this statement, and however that would be really cool, and I love the Night Hammer but... Wouldn't the Razor's Kiss make more sense?
I know, I know It had been destroyed, but still.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on March 13, 2015, 05:09:52 PM
I've been thinking a lot in this statement, and however that would be really cool, and I love the Night Hammer but... Wouldn't the Razor's Kiss make more sense?
I know, I know It had been destroyed, but still.

It's just a name. I figured that without buildable SSDs the player will appreciate having respawning Zsinj in Era 4 and the Night Hammer (or whatever name Zsinj would use for a black SSD.) is a convenient excuse for that.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 14, 2015, 06:40:39 PM
It's just a name. I figured that without buildable SSDs the player will appreciate having respawning Zsinj in Era 4 and the Night Hammer (or whatever name Zsinj would use for a black SSD.) is a convenient excuse for that.

Im just stoked to get hold of the Warlords. Any chance to include the Providence class carrier, i know the pa have a hero with one, love that ship. Also thanks again for doing this sumbmod Vulcanus, and is your name a reference to Cpt Nemo's island?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on March 14, 2015, 07:26:21 PM
We can't give Zsinj the Night Hammer - he might actually use it effectively, and then where would our plot bunnies be? ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on March 15, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
is your name a reference to Cpt Nemo's island?

Well that would be good reference indeed, but it actually refers to the Avro Vulcan.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 15, 2015, 03:41:56 AM
We can't give Zsinj the Night Hammer - he might actually use it effectively, and then where would our plot bunnies be? ;)

Well Zsinj fell victim to his own plot bunnies in Gara Petothal and her astromech sabotage of Iron Fist.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on March 15, 2015, 04:30:00 AM
Well Zsinj fell victim to his own plot bunnies in Gara Petothal and her astromech sabotage of Iron Fist.

Yes, but King of the Droids was cool. ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 15, 2015, 12:52:45 PM
Yes, but King of the Droids was cool. ;)

This is true and as plot bunnies go, it was believable
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on March 15, 2015, 01:32:06 PM
This is true and as plot bunnies go, it was believable

Yes, much more believable than many of the others.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 15, 2015, 04:57:40 PM
Yes, much more believable than many of the others.

I loved how even though he lost Zsinj still escaped with Iron Fist and fooled the NR into bbelieving they had destroyed it. Had it not been for the incredibly horrible luck of a hapan courting, a freak sabbacc win over a Drakonin, treacherous nightsisters and the absolutely fiendishly lucky Han Solo he might have stayed a power for a few more years.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on March 15, 2015, 05:24:50 PM
I loved how even though he lost Zsinj still escaped with Iron Fist and fooled the NR into bbelieving they had destroyed it. Had it not been for the incredibly horrible luck of a hapan courting, a freak sabbacc win over a Drakonin, treacherous nightsisters and the absolutely fiendishly lucky Han Solo he might have stayed a power for a few more years.

And now I feel like reading The Courtship of Princess Leia again. So many good things in such a bad novel.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: tlmiller on March 15, 2015, 07:40:08 PM
The biggest thing I found hard to believe is that all these men wanted Leia.  I mean, assuming she didn't suddenly get a ton of plastic surgery after the events in the original movies, then she at least IMO, is a total barker.  Not a single attractive quality to her.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pali on March 15, 2015, 10:18:08 PM
She's never been on my top ten, but I've always thought her physically attractive.  Plus, as far as the original trilogy is concerned, there are only about ten human women in the galaxy anyways - a hot commodity! ;)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 16, 2015, 02:15:21 AM
And now I feel like reading The Courtship of Princess Leia again. So many good things in such a bad novel.

Oh it's not bad. The Crystal Star, the corellian trilogy and cchildrenof the jedi...THOSE were bad!
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: phantommy555 on September 12, 2015, 04:04:59 AM
I know no one post on this thread in forever but anyone got a download link the one on the front page isn't working.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 16, 2015, 02:52:54 PM
I know no one post on this thread in forever but anyone got a download link the one on the front page isn't working.

Alright, I fixed the download link in the first post :).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Zman6475 on December 02, 2015, 01:41:17 PM
There's no readme file, or at least I can't find it.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on December 02, 2015, 02:50:33 PM
There's no readme file, or at least I can't find it.

The .rar file contains a readme text file that has the installation instructions in addition to the "v. 1 and 2 mod features" word doc and "v.3 Changelist" text file that list most of the new features and edits to the original ICW 2.15.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: KesselRun12 on February 21, 2016, 03:57:17 AM
Hi Vulcanus great submod. I'm having trouble with the 'Hunt for Zsinj' galactic conquest. For some reason the New Republic is not playable. I noticed some typos in the XML for the campaign - Calamari was spelt 'Calimari' and edited those, but that didn't fix it. Can only really do basic XML editing/adding units, not too sure about GCs or how to fix them. Any ideas? Thanks.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on February 21, 2016, 05:20:48 AM
Hi Vulcanus great submod. I'm having trouble with the 'Hunt for Zsinj' galactic conquest. For some reason the New Republic is not playable. I noticed some typos in the XML for the campaign - Calamari was spelt 'Calimari' and edited those, but that didn't fix it. Can only really do basic XML editing/adding units, not too sure about GCs or how to fix them. Any ideas? Thanks.

You shouldn't edit internal XML planet names, as those are not typos. "Calimari" is what was used in ICW and there was no need for me to change it as the name displayed ingame is from the text file rather than XMLs. Changing that in campaign files only will cause Mon Calamari to disappear from the campaign map.

Hunt for Zsinj can be fixed by editing Campaigns_Zsinj.XML and changing the Greater Maldrood's campaign name from
   <Campaign Name="Sandbox_Zsinj_Rebel"> to anything else, like
   <Campaign Name="Sandbox_Zsinj_Maldrood">
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Slornie on February 21, 2016, 12:09:37 PM
Quick point of clarification on the MonCalimari thing. That's actually how the planet was coded in the original game by Petroglyph and there has just never been a point where we felt the need to correct it in the mod (let along track down wherever else it turns up). Not important but I didn't want you to go away with the impression we don't know our source material! :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Darth Red on September 03, 2016, 05:23:08 AM
I am having a blast with this submod.
Thanks and I hope to see it updated when 2.2 comes along  ;D
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mith on September 08, 2016, 11:59:04 PM
I just tried playing the Orinda campaign, and I noticed the Imperial costs just as much as in vanilla, putting it as less expensive than a Venator, is this intentional or a mistake/bug?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Vulcanus on September 10, 2016, 02:44:15 AM
I am having a blast with this submod.
Thanks and I hope to see it updated when 2.2 comes along  ;D

I'm glad you're enjoying it :). And yes, this will probably be updated for 2.2. However, don't expect too many new things as it's been almost two years since I did any modding for ICW. In this regard, the Thrawn's Revenge modding team has done well in picking up the baton focusing on the Warlords, Post-Endor timeline and adding more heroes. All things this submod would have added had I continued further with this submod back in 2014.

I just tried playing the Orinda campaign, and I noticed the Imperial costs just as much as in vanilla, putting it as less expensive than a Venator, is this intentional or a mistake/bug?

Intentional. Unlike the Pentastar Venator that relies on TIE Fighters, TIE Bombers, V-Wings and Torrents, the Imp Venator carries far more deadly A9s, TIE Ints and TIE Bombers. The cost of ships is scaled according to their firepower, pop cost and health plus the cost of fighter complement with the cost of reserve fighter squadrons scaled down. Unlike in vanilla ICW, the Venator has capital grade shields instead of frigate shields and both TIE Ints and A9s rank among the second highest cost tier for fighters.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Darth Red on September 17, 2016, 04:25:57 AM
Thanks Vulcanus.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on September 17, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
there will also be some tweaks Delta and I are working on too.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Darth Red on September 22, 2016, 01:51:30 AM
The more, the merrier :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: StarBornMichaelh165 on September 28, 2016, 12:28:33 AM
I want to this Submod so bad. And thank you Vulcanus.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Revan0123 on October 01, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
This sub-mod is brilliant :)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on November 19, 2016, 07:58:54 AM
sorry, there has been so much conversation on here, and I don't have the sub-mod. what all does this submod change from 2.1, and what do you want to have for 2.2. sorry, I'm new around here
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Bucman55 on November 19, 2016, 01:26:38 PM
sorry, there has been so much conversation on here, and I don't have the sub-mod. what all does this submod change from 2.1, and what do you want to have for 2.2. sorry, I'm new around here
I can't speak for the 2.2 plans but for 2.15 it mostly overhauls the Pentastar Alignment, but it also adds things to the New Republic like the MC80a wingless and the Republic-Class Star Destroyer. It also adds the Greater Maldrood as a playable faction in certain GCs. Pentastar additions include but are not limited to : new heroes, Carracks and Tartan Cruisers on certain planets, strike cruisers on certain planets, goodies on Kuat, goodies on Coruscant, goodies in Zsinj's territory, and a lifetime build cap of 24 on all Clone Wars era ships (not including the Imperator or the Victory I).
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on November 19, 2016, 01:55:25 PM
by the way, corey, how many of your ideas did you get from this minimod?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Corey on November 20, 2016, 01:49:34 PM
Not really anything.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on December 09, 2016, 10:31:27 AM
oh, ok. can't wait to see what this mod will do once 2.2 comes out and Vulcanus can start modding again.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Mr.Puerto on December 09, 2016, 10:05:54 PM
Can someone explain this to me right now, it might be because I'm extremely tired but here's the question. So is the download that is linked on the first page the most up to date version? Because when I try to go and download the files down the forum it says its not available.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Bucman55 on December 15, 2016, 11:58:38 AM
Can someone explain this to me right now, it might be because I'm extremely tired but here's the question. So is the download that is linked on the first page the most up to date version? Because when I try to go and download the files down the forum it says its not available.

Yes, that is the most up to date version.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 07, 2017, 03:53:38 PM
so, it is probably already asked and answered, but will you keep working on this after 2.2 comes out? or will this stay at 2.15? because i enjoy your infinties GCs for the game
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 08, 2017, 02:10:47 AM
so, it is probably already asked and answered, but will you keep working on this after 2.2 comes out? or will this stay at 2.15? because i enjoy your infinties GCs for the game

There are already a host of things the sub mod has planned after 2.2 but I mustn't spoil anything, let's just say heroes, units and some interesting possibilities may or may not be opening up in a sub mod near future..
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 08, 2017, 08:28:11 AM
so, are the two of you modding together? because I mighthave some infinities GCs ideas for you if your interested
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 08, 2017, 03:29:48 PM
so, are the two of you modding together? because I mighthave some infinities GCs ideas for you if your interested
Delta and I have been working on some ideas yes, you are more than welcome to join in Kucsidave
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: kucsidave on January 08, 2017, 03:36:21 PM
Delta and I have been working on some ideas yes, you are more than welcome to join in Kucsidave
thanks. but at the moment between work and the normal modding for the team I'm not sure I would have the time.
But I'm happy to help in consulting/brainstorming if you wish.
I am also working on a new mechanic which the team might refuse in the end, that might go to you then.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 08, 2017, 04:05:28 PM
thanks. but at the moment between work and the normal modding for the team I'm not sure I would have the time.
But I'm happy to help in consulting/brainstorming if you wish.
I am also working on a new mechanic which the team might refuse in the end, that might go to you then.

Feel free to send it to my on skype or steam
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 08, 2017, 04:07:10 PM
if i had your email, i could help with brainstorming too... i don't have skype
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 08, 2017, 11:03:13 PM
if i had your email, i could help with brainstorming too... i don't have skype

lordxizer@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 09, 2017, 02:20:30 PM
ok thanks. my list will be long, do you want it in parts or as 1 long thing.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 09, 2017, 11:39:56 PM
ok thanks. my list will be long, do you want it in parts or as 1 long thing.

Whichever works best for you. Let the ideas flow
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 10, 2017, 11:03:07 AM
alright. i'll start when i have free time
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 19, 2017, 10:12:09 AM
Quote
People can post submods wherever they want; we just don't allow people claiming it's an official TR thing, or redistributing the entire mod.

if this is true, than can you guys post pictures and the mod on Mod Database like Razoredge did with his? that would make it easier to find and download
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: isa0005 on January 26, 2017, 02:29:52 PM
So for some reason, the Fel Empire Campaign isn't appearing in my campaign list, any idea whats going on?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 26, 2017, 03:08:22 PM
does vulcanus even work on trouble shooting and bug fixes anymore?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 26, 2017, 03:43:27 PM
can't believe i never thought of this before, but can you guys make a manual for this mod that we can see the changes when we get the mod? it would make a welcome addition
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 26, 2017, 06:32:18 PM
As I said before, expected timeline for next release is after ICW 2.2, though the Zsinj GC may come before that. In the meantime I would suggest following the Yuuzhan Vong at War mod as it will have significant contributions by me and is first on my modding priorities right now.

ugh. was digging back through the thread and found this, but when i tried to look up the company/team on Moddb, it said the thing was for members only, so i can't see who is on that team. can you guys open it up so everyone can view who is making that mod Vulcanus?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: joebob1337 on February 07, 2017, 01:06:17 PM
Is it me or does the EoTH battlecrusier pretty weak compared to phalanxes?
I imagined it to be at least praetor level good, but it looses 1v1 to a praetor.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Warlord Roach on March 05, 2017, 05:12:58 AM
Any one know were the Eoth Battlecruiser is hiding in the XML files? I wanted to play with its stats and such but can't seem to find it. (I may just be blind :p)
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on March 06, 2017, 05:04:32 PM
so, what are the current plans for B&F for ICW 2.2?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Pentastar Enforcer on March 09, 2017, 07:27:27 PM
so, what are the current plans for B&F for ICW 2.2?

I can't speak for the team but I'd say there will be a B&F update once 2.2 is fully released - looking forward to it tbh.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Avarice1987 on April 19, 2018, 02:55:03 PM
Did you work on a Version for 2.2?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: isa0005 on June 24, 2018, 08:06:56 AM
Any news on development?
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: Lord Xizer on June 24, 2018, 09:51:04 PM
Any news on development?

Some progress has been made but still in very early stage. Mostly waiting until 2.2.5 is finished fully before beginning to bring in submod stuff in earnest.
Title: Re: Balance & Flavor submod for Imperial Civil War 2.1
Post by: isa0005 on July 02, 2018, 08:56:45 PM
So 2.2.5 is finished get crackin boys! **cracks motivational whip** :P