Thrawn's Revenge
Ascendancy [SoaSE] => Ascendancy Discussion => Topic started by: Corey on March 29, 2017, 10:41:34 PM
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We're doing some work to bring some consistency between the PA rosters in Imperial Civil War and Ascendancy, and part of this means picking their dedicated anti-fighter (since the Arquitens is going to be doing some other stuff in 1.1). So, it's down to either the Vigil (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vigil-class_corvette) or the Raider (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Raider-class_corvette) (the laser variant). Whichever gets the most votes will be the PA's antifighter, and therefore in both ICW and Ascendancy, and the loser will be Eriadu's, and therefore only in ICW. When we voted within the team, everyone else was tied, so we're passing the tiebreaker on to you.
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GO RAIDER!!!!!!!
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Raider
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It's so nice to see the raider coming up this strong ATM :D
Though I keep out of the poll for obvious reasons, I am with you in mind, team raider ;)
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looks like the PA will get the raider, and EA the vigil. which means the EA roster will end up changing again. since i don't know either ship well, I'm abstaining
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Raider for the PA IMO.
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I'd rather see the Vigil for Pentastar. I guess it's because I like the design better.
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As much as I love the Vigil, it seems more along the lines of the Arquitens (a mix of turbos and laser cannons). The Raider was designed for anti-fighter duties, so I think it's a better fit.
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As much as I love the Vigil, it seems more along the lines of the Arquitens (a mix of turbos and laser cannons). The Raider was designed for anti-fighter duties, so I think it's a better fit.
That's why I would choose it.
That and it looks absolutely awesome. :D
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As much as I love the Vigil, it seems more along the lines of the Arquitens (a mix of turbos and laser cannons). The Raider was designed for anti-fighter duties, so I think it's a better fit.
Fluffwise Raider was said to be designed to assist the TIE Fighters and that explain the rounded out armament of heavy laser cannons, ion cannons, and turbolasers.
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That's why I would choose it.
That and it looks absolutely awesome. :D
Very true. FFG did a fantastic job designing that ship.
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As much as I love the Vigil, it seems more along the lines of the Arquitens (a mix of turbos and laser cannons). The Raider was designed for anti-fighter duties, so I think it's a better fit.
I would point out in in my earlier post, Raider carried a mixed loadout of armament not the least of which are heavy laser cannons.
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Which in game terms can really only mean anti-fighter. Lasers basically only are effective against fighters, and the other weaponry on it isn't enough to hurt anything larger. It wouldn't even make sense for it to be a threat to anything heavier in lore, either. Almost everything carried something of a mixed loadout, but as its wookie article says, it was intended primarily to be anti-fighter.
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Also (don't quote me on this, because I'm not 100% sure) I believe the main reason it has a mixed loadout on the Wook is because there really isn't a canon layout for it given the nature of its creation.
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My vote is Raider for Pentastar, and Vigil for Eriadu.
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I would say the Raider, because I generally prefer it as a Corvette than the Vigil, but the Vigil seems more like the Pentastar style. The Raider isn't really the kind of spam corvette as the Vigil is, in my opinion.
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I want to say the raider, for a number of reasons;
1) it was produced earlier in galactic history, meaning it would probably have more established production lines, meaning there would be more of them to defect or easier for secondary ship yards to produce with, and this is somewhat important in terms of production, less lead time. The ability to put a project into production quickly, while still taking into account local resource needs and manpower requirements would be vitally important for the fledgling pentastar alignment
2) Its smaller with what I assume to be a smaller crew compliment - I know this might seem counter intuitive in terms of effectiveness but that would mean it would place less stress on logistics & manpower making it an easier choice for commanders. Not only that but a smaller hull generally means less resource usage, When Grand Moff Ardus Kaine splintered from the empire he would have had to make hard choices in terms of production capability, and go for cheaper ships which is indicative of the munificent class - which is somewhat obsolete
3) The fact that the article specifies that there are different versions of the vessel indicates its popularity, and its modify-ability. With the raider it would be easy for a commander to grab a defected Raider I and swap out the hardpoints with AG-2G laser cannons. The AG-2G while admittedly produced by Corellia, would still be available on the black market in large numbers. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AG-2G_quad_laser_cannon/Legends). While the vigil is also modifiable, the tactical thinking, and size, of the vigil means it is generally put into production as a pocket carrier or small command ship
4) The articles specifies that "Considered useful in the Outer Rim Territories by the Empire due to its hyperdrive" meaning that there would be more of them on the outer rim territories which is Kaine's prime recruiting ground. Being able to acquire a ship and a crew with experience in that ship class and type, means you can dilute your manpower between experienced spacers and newly trained recruits, when new ships are built, without loosing to much effectiveness too much.
5) If you go by Exodus version of the Vigil class (found here http://starwars-exodus.wikia.com/wiki/Vigil-class_Corvette) The vigil class is more a multipurpose pocket carrier rather than dedicated anti star fighter support, and while no doubt it could be reconfigured that way I would still argue that the size makes them a pocket carrier, or a patrol, command and control system, rather than dedicated anti-starfighter support.
6) Kaine is a old hand - he was one of the earliest supporters of the Emperor, he rose up through the ranks, and is experienced in matters of business and logistics, politics and naval warfare, because of this he probably would've stuck with what he knew worked. What's more Kaine's isolationist policies means he would not have had access to technology produced after Endor, except that which he could steal, bought, bribe or blackmail, the fact that he heavily relies on victory I's rather than type II's is indicative of this.
Feel free to argue any of these points :P I'll try to reply whenever I can.
Meo
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5) If you go by Exodus version of the Vigil class (found here http://starwars-exodus.wikia.com/wiki/Vigil-class_Corvette) The vigil class is more a multipurpose pocket carrier rather than dedicated anti star fighter support, and while no doubt it could be reconfigured that way I would still argue that the size makes them a pocket carrier, or a patrol, command and control system, rather than dedicated anti-starfighter support.
On this point, never use Exodus as a source for anything- it's a fanon wiki. The canon role of the Vigil does include scouting and patrol, but that's not a statement of its actual role in combat (the Lancer would be described the same way) and it's not inconsistent with it being used as anti-fighter support. As far as it being used in any way as a carrier, it doesn't seem to even have a hangar in the first place.
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I actually think the IPV is perfect for the Pentastar, as most of Meo's arguments apply even more to it. Between the new options, I think the Vigil for the Pentastar and Raider for Eriadu is better aesthetically, but my preference isn't really that strong.
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Also (don't quote me on this, because I'm not 100% sure) I believe the main reason it has a mixed loadout on the Wook is because there really isn't a canon layout for it given the nature of its creation.
It has a mixed loadout because that is how it was designed with, out of universe. She was conceived for X-Wing Miniatures with LucasArts' inputs.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Raider_Expansion_Pack_(X-Wing)
This is the official loadout for the Raider in X-Wing Miniatures
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/12/19/here-comes-the-imperial-raider/
"“The Raider is a starship made specifically for anti-fighter warfare. Its six dual heavy laser cannons proved more accurate against snubfighters than the turbolaser batteries of its Star Destroyer cousins, and the disruptive effects of its ion cannon emplacements, along with the efficiency of its localized command, make it a powerful addition to small strike forces...."–Andrew Navaro, Frank Brooks, and Steve Kimball (This say the ion cannons, if not turbolaser (not mentioned in that section), is intended to supplement the Raider in giving strike forces she would be part of some teeth.)
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/4/24/the-might-of-the-empire/
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/4/6/here-they-come/
"...the Raider is a quick and nimble ship that excels at dealing with pesky starfighter squadrons, but it can just as easily dart across the battlefield to pour concentrated fire into the broadside of a Rebel cruiser. " This also support Raider having a mixed loadout.
All these 'official' sources, official because Raider is developed for these games, point to her having a main complement of laser cannons (dual heavy laser cannons or quad laser cannons) but supplemented with Ion Cannons and Turbolaser(first link) to assist any strike force she's leading against ships (nonstarfighter) for a mixed loadout.
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On this point, never use Exodus as a source for anything- it's a fanon wiki. The canon role of the Vigil does include scouting and patrol, but that's not a statement of its actual role in combat (the Lancer would be described the same way) and it's not inconsistent with it being used as anti-fighter support. As far as it being used in any way as a carrier, it doesn't seem to even have a hangar in the first place.
Ahh that I did not know