Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Illidan Stormrage on October 08, 2016, 12:03:39 AM
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This Thread is based off the events that happen in the warlord strategy thread where it turn into a rant on Disney and the new cannon.
So this thread is design for us to vent our anger and frustrations on the new AND old cannon. We all have reasons to be piss off one way or another so....................................... *sigh* here we go
First off I don't think is Dave Flioni or George Lucas fault, In fact they at pretty good people. George Donated money to charity, and Dave Floini has tried to bring in Eu charaters. (their are rumors that Dave will make a kotor Tv series)
I like to say that honestly I point fingers directly at the story group and Disney itself. We have very kid friendly stories and lack of very very dark scenes.
Though their are new things in cannon I like.
Scar Squad: (or task force 99 check them out)
And Tarkin is pretty good.
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If there is someone to point fingers at it is us. I've read related thread and can only say this: there is no problem with Disney and what they do because Legends are still here, they don't go anywhere. There are good and bad things in new canon, as it was in old one. It is Disney's IP now so they can do whatever they want. Is it good or bad - only time (and money income) will show. Right now I don't have any complaints about their vision and what they do right now.
Also, this http://puu.sh/rBLQN/9daaa9eb97.jpg is caNNon, what we are talking about is caNon ;-)
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I have to say that if disney would realle have wanted to do something different and let the prequels kinda cannon but not really mention they would have nothing to do, but go a few thousand years into the future, and they would have free hand to do whatever they wanted. they could have told of a new empire, and then even the resistence name would make sense, since it would suggest that they are the underdogs, when they basicly had the whole galaxy backing them up.
We might be at a little fault because of our own sentiments and nostalgy what we don't want to let go of, but we are still not the ones rewriting our favourite stories and characters.
But let's go trough the whole list one by one.
George: How could he be at fault here? He might have sold the stuff, but he wanted to do nothing with it either way, at least like this we get new star wars stuff. He did the right choice if you ask me. And yes, he screwed up a lot of stuff, but i think it always remained in a healthy balance with the things that made Star Wars great.
Disney. oh boy...: I think I pretty much told my oppinion of them above. The only thing I want to add to them is: Idiots...
Us: As I said, we are at fault too, since if we wouldn't stick to our old favs with toots and nails and we could let go of our hate, we would finally be at peace once again, and might enjoy the new stuff. BUUUUTTTT... we can't. At least not yet. And the two canons might have enough space to coexist, we don't want to give any to them. But hey, admitting the problem is the first step to solve it.
Dave: He is a cool guy. I think he is one of the pillars that made star wars the franchise we love. I don't blame him, neither should anyone else.
Hillary and Obama...: Just... WHY? WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE AROUND THE USA AND IT'S POLITICS? No offence, but it is bullsh*t.
Lucas Arts: Ughhh. nope. I just can't.... As I said with George, Healthy balance. They made huuuge idiocy sometimes, but also many great stuff. Like battlefront I and II.
I think nobody should blame someone for messing stuff up in the past for stuff other people are messing up right now.
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If there is someone to point fingers at it is us. I've read related thread and can only say this: there is no problem with Disney and what they do because Legends are still here, they don't go anywhere. There are good and bad things in new canon, as it was in old one. It is Disney's IP now so they can do whatever they want. Is it good or bad - only time (and money income) will show. Right now I don't have any complaints about their vision and what they do right now.
Well they can at least not override everything in the EU they could have just wrote Everything after the Peallon-Gaverison treaty out of cannon , Torque their are things you have to understand. If it Us that undermines the whole point of "Us" being star wars fans. We are not whining kids, we are the people who grew up with star wars. I would argue it is just simply that Disney Considers us a dying breed. They don't give a crap about us the only people who do are getting screw over trying to bring in EU material. Dave Floini has apparently try to do Thrawn in season 2 but the Story group refuses and the story group is slowly being replace.[
If George Lucas hadn't sigh that all of his team should get jobs, Disney was going to fire the old team and replace them which is what is SLOWLY happening now they are undermining old team members and giving them crapy jobs, and getting the people they want on star wars. Even some members have said working with Jar Jar Abrams have stressed how he always wanted his way and didn't really listen to other people. That is the reason why the movie is very very very very similar to Episode 4.
*sigh*
Jesus I basically made a huge rant.
Hillary and Obama...: Just... WHY? WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE AROUND THE USA AND IT'S POLITICS? No offence, but it is bullsh*t.
Lucas Arts: Ughhh. nope. I just can't.... As I said with George, Healthy balance. They made huuuge idiocy sometimes, but also many great stuff. Like battlefront I and II.
I think nobody should blame someone for messing stuff up in the past for stuff other people are messing up right now.
Dave I am specifically referring to the story group they are the team slowly being replace by Disney's personal employees.
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Well they can at least not override everything in the EU they could have just wrote Everything after the Peallon-Gaverison treaty out of cannon , Torque their are things you have to understand. If it Us that undermines the whole point of "Us" being star wars fans. We are not whining kids, we are the people who grew up with star wars. I would argue it is just simply that Disney Considers us a dying breed. They don't give a crap about us the only people who do are getting screw over trying to bring in EU material. Dave Floini has apparently try to do Thrawn in season 2 but the Story group refuses and the story group is slowly being replace.[
If George Lucas hadn't sigh that all of his team should get jobs, Disney was going to fire the old team and replace them which is what is SLOWLY happening now they are undermining old team members and giving them crapy jobs, and getting the people they want on star wars. Even some members have said working with Jar Jar Abrams have stressed how he always wanted his way and didn't really listen to other people. That is the reason why the movie is very very very very similar to Episode 4.
The fact that many of us grew with Star Wars actualy doesn't mean that Disney have to care about us. They don't have to. Realy. It's their IP now and their right to do whatever they want with it. And it has nothing to do with us except our will to pay money for the product.
And I will repeat: EU isn't gone, it is still there for you to enjoy it. It wasn't burned, eradicated etc. Look here https://puu.sh/rBSFq/f5dc62ab0e.jpg (https://puu.sh/rBSFq/f5dc62ab0e.jpg). It is russian version of "The Last Command" novel that my father bought in 1996 when I was 1 y.o. My father is dead for 7 years now but this book is still here, I can read it, it didn't suddenly disappear when Disney made their changes to the canon.
If it "Us" to point fingers at, it is not by any means undermines the point of us being SW fans. You may not be very satisfied with new canon and the way Disney doing things, it is your right. It is just your disappointment with this way that you have to point your finger at, your wish for EU to be actual canon as if the fact that Disney now sells old EU under "Legens" title determines whether old EU exists or not. Realy, sometimes it looks like with time some older fans will call new ones (who appreciate new canon and don't worship old EU as only true one) not TRUE FANS. What about Spider-man? It originated in 60s IIRC, and was rebooted many times. Does this means the original comics is no longer here? No, no and one more time: NO. Now relax, go to your bookshelf, get your favourite EU novels and read them. Repeat whenever you want.
Now about actual canon. I don't think it is bad. Though I hadn't read much new stuff, only "Tarkin" novel and watcing Rebels TV show. I don't see anything bad. I see some characters from legends appear here and there, I don't see anything bad right now. As far as I know, Filoni is now supervising everything related with animated shows, this is promotion, not replacing. And he still works on Rebels as executive producer. As for J. J. Abrams (rly, stop calling him Jar Jar, srsly, it's annoying), episode 7 may look very simillar to episode 4, but we have yet to see other episodes to understand, was it done on purprose as shoutout to original trilogy with intention to go another way after or just copy-paste.
I like to say that honestly I point fingers directly at the story group and Disney itself. We have very kid friendly stories and lack of very very dark scenes.
I myself don't see anything bad in kid friendly stories and lack of dark scenes. In fact, I want kid friendly stories. I am tired of dark scenes, dark stories etc. Had enough of it. And yeah, kid friendly don't equals bad.
stuff other people are messing up right now
I honestly don't see anything being messed up right now.
Hillary and Obama...: Just... WHY? WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE AROUND THE USA AND IT'S POLITICS? No offence, but it is bullsh*t.
Completely agree. Just stop this. World is not circling around murrica. Or else I will start talking about russian and european politics. Kucksidave, wanna talk about refugees?
Also, there was something simillar happening with another IP I'am interested in - Lego BIONICLE. And here is one interesting video that is related to our topic (just replace BIONICLE with Star Wars). It may clarify my point.
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I honestly don't see anything being messed up right now.
I watch Reblels and stuff, because I see the potential, but when I saw the copterblades of the inquisitor I said fuck this...
Completely agree. Just stop this. World is not circling around murrica. Or else I will start talking about russian and european politics. Kucksidave, wanna talk about refugees?
Yeah, sure. Opened a topic for it:
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=6056.0
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Placeholder post for my huge wall of text essay that should be arriving sometime within the next couple days.
Meanwhile, here's a Star Wars Cannon for you
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/65/Galaxygun_negwt.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080722195312)
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Look here https://puu.sh/rBSFq/f5dc62ab0e.jpg (https://puu.sh/rBSFq/f5dc62ab0e.jpg). It is russian version of "The Last Command" novel that my father bought in 1996 when I was 1 y.o. My father is dead for 7 years now but this book is still here, I can read it, it didn't suddenly disappear when Disney made their changes to the canon.
Jesus man sorry for your loss
I think the problem is more of some of us would like movies on these characters and I would argue that everything after Vong war wasn't really great, and I am fine with that. But Why erase everything? It just doesn't make senses. But again it could be our fault because we have been attach to these stories, characters, and things for too long. Even If we all died some one will still Remember the EU. We wont fade into nothingness , but we will be a small number.
We might even be smaller when they write this new universal out of cannon.
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Jesus man sorry for your loss
I think the problem is more of some of us would like movies on these characters and I would argue that everything after Vong war wasn't really great, and I am fine with that. But Why erase everything? It just doesn't make senses. But again it could be our fault because we have been attach to these stories, characters, and things for too long. Even If we all died some one will still Remember the EU. We wont fade into nothingness , but we will be a small number.
We might even be smaller when they write this new universal out of cannon.
You don't have to be sorry, as I said, it happend 7 years ago. And the piont was that the book itself hadn't disappeared after Disney put title "Legends" on it nor after my father died. You can't say erased about old EU, because it never was. Look at it as reboot. Comics series like Batman, Superman, Spider-man and others are rebooted very frequently. Transformers rebooted many times too. And this can be said about many IPs, but this doesn't mean that their older iterations aren't there anymore.
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You don't have to be sorry, as I said, it happend 7 years ago. And the piont was that the book itself hadn't disappeared after Disney put title "Legends" on it nor after my father died. You can't say erased about old EU, because it never was. Look at it as reboot. Comics series like Batman, Superman, Spider-man and others are rebooted very frequently. Transformers rebooted many times too. And this can be said about many IPs, but this doesn't mean that their older iterations aren't there anymore.
"History is on the move, Captain. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all."
Grand Admiral Thrawn
But I do like Scar Squad look it up or taskforce 99
I feel now more happy with the new cannon, but the stories wont live up to the Thrawn trilogy... never in a million years
With the dc and marvel universal their isn't drastic changes.
here some music to keep it fresh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bknq8D5mknQ
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First off i was pretty much done with new SW material as it was starting to loop and repeat. I didn't WANT a new SW movie or series, because-we didn't need it! A movie series on the EU would not be the image we had of them in our minds after all these years and to a degree what disney felt was that no one would watch something where they knew how it played out exactly(Disney MIGHT have wanted to look at Lord of the Rings to see the flaw in THAT thinking mind you). The point is, it was fine as was. It would have been nice to see something left off without endless sequels and being milked for nostalgia value. (Legacy of the Force lookin at you) For me the end of the YVW was the best end point. Because EVERYTHING had been done by then. You had Sith armies, you had Dark Jedi, Force Witches, cults, mystics, xenophobic races, Warlords, criminals, mandos and smugglers. Every way a story or character could be developed and tried had BEEN DONE in the EU up to and including the Vong War. i was ready for the stories to have an ending point and give the characters that much needed ride into the sunset. We knew about the bloody first FORCE USERS on TYTHON for pete's sake! lol the EU had it's own ancient history!(Which granted most of was awesome)
Honestly the YVW felt to me like one last hurrah, it was galaxy wide, wrapped up a hell of a lot of loose ends and unanswered plot points, was a fresh and pretty original enemy(unlike disney wars) and took a LOT of risks. It gets harped on but it really does develop the characters to the absolute limit where they had begun to feel stale. you got Luke and the Jedi with a serious moral and spiritual issue with the Vong's not being in the Force, you have Han hit by losing chewie and his son,you have Jaina and jacen's reactions and development into full blown characters all their own and it has some really great "FUCK YEAH" moments to boot(Battle of Borleis is a personal fav). Then there are the vong who are insanely fleshed out and detailed. next to old Vader and Palps we never got villains that had this long a run time. Most got 3 books at most and maybe a spinoff or prequel but Nom Anor, Tsavong Lah, Shimrra, Onimi, Nas Choka, Maik Carr, Harrar and Nen Yim get whole shelves of development and POVs. It's staggering the scale.
Then what do we get with Disney? We get an unashamed shot by shot remake of "A New Hope" they didn't take risks at all. They just gave out mindless nostalgia candy. look how much it references and leans on your nostalgia for the old trilogy, Say what you will about the Prequels but at least George took chances, not all panned out but a lot did and improved the mythos. he took chances and brought something actually NEW to the screen each time and people just wanted the old trilogy with shiny updates. That is the main thing that bothers me about the new film(Aside from Disney basically waving the middle finger to those of us that spent money and time learning near everything SW the last 25 years...)
it promises NEW but doesn't deliver. It promised to capture the feel of the old while bringing an original story, but it doesn't do either. It's not a mark of the film or the new series that people tune in to them because with the way the world is now the US has nostalgia fever. look at all our reboots JUST THIS year!
Basically to a degree the people ARE at fault as well as Disney. Disney is at fault for being only about profit without true regard for the material, the people are to blame because they will SETTLE for this, hell they ENCOURAGE IT because they crave those "(Stealing from South Park here) "MEMBER BERRIES"
(Sorry it's 3AM and I am ranting)
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Then what do we get with Disney? We get an unashamed shot by shot remake of "A New Hope" they didn't take risks at all. They just gave out mindless nostalgia candy. look how much it references and leans on your nostalgia for the old trilogy, Say what you will about the Prequels but at least George took chances, not all panned out but a lot did and improved the mythos. he took chances and brought something actually NEW to the screen each time and people just wanted the old trilogy with shiny updates. That is the main thing that bothers me about the new film(Aside from Disney basically waving the middle finger to those of us that spent money and time learning near everything SW the last 25 years...)
it promises NEW but doesn't deliver. It promised to capture the feel of the old while bringing an original story, but it doesn't do either. It's not a mark of the film or the new series that people tune in to them because with the way the world is now the US has nostalgia fever. look at all our reboots JUST THIS year!
Basically to a degree the people ARE at fault as well as Disney. Disney is at fault for being only about profit without true regard for the material, the people are to blame because they will SETTLE for this, hell they ENCOURAGE IT because they crave those "(Stealing from South Park here) "MEMBER BERRIES"
(Sorry it's 3AM and I am ranting)
IT is alright you have made a clear point. The thing is if they rebooted the cannon some people have said that Dave Floini and Timothy Zhan should have wrote the future star wars movies, That way we would have a more than capable writer working with the mind behind some of the best clone wars episodes ever. Jar Jar Abrams Didn't even bother to take any risks, but this isn't just in star wars 7, he did it in star trek as well. God dammit Disney have good writers and directors at least. ~In fact JJ Abrams shouldn't get any credit for that movie.
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Well they can at least not override everything in the EU they could have just wrote Everything after the Peallon-Gaverison treaty out of cannon
Salami slicing the old EU canon would have been a worse decision than to sideline it entirely. First everyone has their own likes and dislikes so whatever you save (or don't) will upset at least part of the fanbase just as much as Legends did. Secondly, and more importantly, the quality of content in the old EU is so variable throughout the timeline you can't just cut it off at a particular date and be done with it - e.g. your suggestion would keep Crystal Star, New Rebellion and the Black Fleet Crisis as canon (not exactly highpoints in the EU) but do away with the Yuuzhan Vong War (which was generally one of the better serials) and the Millennium Falcon novel.
It would have been nice to see something left off without endless sequels and being milked for nostalgia value. (Legacy of the Force lookin at you)
Truth. Legacy of the Force for me was just a rather forced re-tread of Palpatine's machinations with the Clone Wars. It disappointed me so much that despite buying all of Fate of the Jedi I've still not gotten around to reading it.
Then what do we get with Disney? We get an unashamed shot by shot remake of "A New Hope" they didn't take risks at all. They just gave out mindless nostalgia candy. look how much it references and leans on your nostalgia for the old trilogy, Say what you will about the Prequels but at least George took chances, not all panned out but a lot did and improved the mythos. he took chances and brought something actually NEW to the screen each time and people just wanted the old trilogy with shiny updates.
it promises NEW but doesn't deliver. It promised to capture the feel of the old while bringing an original story, but it doesn't do either.
Force Awakens (TFA) was in no way a shot by shot remake of ANH. Yes it was influenced heavily by the OT and clearly shares much with ANH but I feel it also draws quite neatly on the other films and PT:
- Rey's life on Jakku is more akin to Anakin than Luke (enslaved, strong innate technical skills)
- The end battle shares more with the Battle of Naboo and Battle of Endor than the Battle of Yavin (ground and space elements, shutting down the shield generator, blowing things up "from the inside", mentor killed by bad guy)
Maybe Disney/JJ should have relied less on the existing material and delivered a more original story but as you mentioned yourself: "people just wanted the old trilogy with shiny updates". You can't really blame Disney for delivering on that, providing the familiarity we all craved. Perhaps doing it this way, taking a safe step back into the OT world and restoring people's faith that the feel can be retained, gives them scope to be more adventurous and original in the rest of the trilogy!
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Force Awakens (TFA) was in no way a shot by shot remake of ANH. Yes it was influenced heavily by the OT and clearly shares much with ANH but I feel it also draws quite neatly on the other films and PT:
- Rey's life on Jakku is more akin to Anakin than Luke (enslaved, strong innate technical skills)
- The end battle shares more with the Battle of Naboo and Battle of Endor than the Battle of Yavin (ground and space elements, shutting down the shield generator, blowing things up "from the inside", mentor killed by bad guy)
Maybe Disney/JJ should have relied less on the existing material and delivered a more original story but as you mentioned yourself: "people just wanted the old trilogy with shiny updates". You can't really blame Disney for delivering on that, providing the familiarity we all craved. Perhaps doing it this way, taking a safe step back into the OT world and restoring people's faith that the feel can be retained, gives them scope to be more adventurous and original in the rest of the trilogy!
I'd agree with Xixer. Other than the names and planets being changed, Force Awakens was just ANH very nearly verbatim. Not a single original concept, not a single original plot point. Literally ANH regurgitated with new names and a few faces moved around.
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Challenge: Everyone Post their own brief summary of what they would have made episode 7 or any of the future star wars movie.
Rules:
1st: You Must have a hero listed and two or three bad guys, and a least one new planet.
2nd: Try to avoid Ridiculous super weapons(you can still have them)
3rd: Be creative.
Hopefully I wont see someone's sick fanfiction.
But I do fear star wars 8 will be First order strikes back(yay????)
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Force Awakens (TFA) was in no way a shot by shot remake of ANH. Yes it was influenced heavily by the OT and clearly shares much with ANH but I feel it also draws quite neatly on the other films and PT:
- Rey's life on Jakku is more akin to Anakin than Luke (enslaved, strong innate technical skills)
- The end battle shares more with the Battle of Naboo and Battle of Endor than the Battle of Yavin (ground and space elements, shutting down the shield generator, blowing things up "from the inside", mentor killed by bad guy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAy7yCMyBw
This guy points out a lot of it as I am multitasking but let's face it they are almost parallel lines
We have a star destroyer, a dark lord and stormtroopers chasing a rebel with sensitive info to a desert planet. Rebel hides data in droid. Droid is captured by scavengers, but saved by idealistic force user who doesn't know their power. Imps destroy teens home, teen escapes on millennium Falcon meeting han and chewie. There is a cantina where they find out info. Imps show off new death star 3.0 and blow up planets after interrogating rebel. Father figure and mentor character dies to dark armored figure with link to main character while X wings from a rebel org attack the battlestations weak point while someone sabotages it from the inside. Battle station explodes leaving villains fate ambiguous and rebels have celebration on hidden base.
Yeah...not a shot by shot remake AT ALL
Also a note, Rey is NOT enslaved, she clearly earns salary with salvage as freelance and Luke is just as mechanically inclined as his father it is heavily implied.
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To be honest here is real question: Why did anyone at The Lucas Arts Story group Flagged J J Abrams about this? It seems pretty retarded that JJ can rip off the work George Lucas worked on and get more credit then George Lucas.
If I wrote a script this is the plot:
A Imperial Tie fighter Pilot( Named Kreel) Crashes after a battle between a NR fleet, Imperial Warlord fleet, and a Imperial Defense Fleet.
He lands on a snow planet that some imperial officers were investigating. after calling for help he finds that a imperial corvette had landed and he was ask to help get some wounded Into a cave. When the remaining imperials join them in a cave we learn that they fled to the unknown regions to escape the imperial warlords and the NR who are hunting them down and trying to kill them. After continuing into the cave our pilot finds a Metal object and a holo message....
After inspecting the metal object he flips a switch and it is a blue light saber. Shocked and confuse he turns on the pre recorded holo message. The message is from Luke saying that he needs help from a threat that will change the galaxy for the worst. When he shows it to his comrades they decide to hunt for Luke in order to save the Galaxy. As they continue on it is reveal that the threat is a darkside user who has found a ancient Sith army and plans to cause civil war in the NR then strike. Meanwhile we learn that the imperial corvette sends out a emergency protocol on Palpatines old channel, but they receive a message form the long thought dead Grand Admiral Thrawn. Thrawn says that he has kept many tabs on worlds that Luke has gone too and notice a pattern. They join forces and find Luke. When Luke sense their presences he realizes something... He should negotiate a second treaty to ally the IR and The NR against this Darksider.
Kreel begins small training in the force and Learns from Luke that all people can use the force, but in different ways. He said that even Thrawn and his fellow pilots could be force sensitive.
When we jump to the NR things aren't looking good with them splitting into factions with Leia and Han trying yo hold things very much together.
When rumors float around that Luke is coming to speak with them(The reason for his absences is because he has been looking for Artifacts to help teach a new generation of Jedi)
Luke Arrives On Thrawn's new flagship the Chimera, but the NR sends in fighters to engage Thrawn opens fighter. Luke is annoyed at first, but realizes Thrawn's ship is only shooting stun weapons to disable weapons. Luke then calls and orders the senate to stand down and let Him through with the imperials.
After hours of negotiation, A fleet of sith Battle cruisers arrive and Invade Coursant and Thrawn and Leia Negotiate the Thrawn Accords. After Hours of fighting the think they won but the Senate room is breach by sith commandos who Capture Our imperial Pilot And Leia. Then the sith pull out leaving behind chaos.
The Ending is a clif hanger Where Thrawn leads a fleet with Luke at the bridge with Thrawn and Thrawn introduces his second in command Peallon. After Thrawn as questions about the force we End with them jumping into hyperspace.
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I present fourth a new controversy: The Aftermath of Endor
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.Mbf462f7b4713d5f0b577864a04dcab0co0&w=199&h=299&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0
The Aftermath series are a collection of three books dealing with the aftermath of Endor.
These Books have a major problem with the...... How does this make sense? Form what we are told there was a battle call the battle of jakku. This battle is honestly a lot of bullshit, The Empire after this battle loses and gives up. WHY? Yes The warlords like the first Order and the Iron Blockaded had many resources, but the Empire still has most of the galaxy under their control, and this is a YEAR AFTER ENDOR (A F****** YEAR). Also Why is their a distinct lack of Grand Admirals? Sloane is the only one we know, and their were clearly more. Also Who is this Imperial Warlord (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kaplan_(Imperial) that first Order officers look up.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Jakku
I just don't get their decisions on this
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Lazy writing
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Lazy writing
Worst is that after this the first order immediately took power. WHY? The iron Blockaded still controls many planets and http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kaplan_(Imperial)
Also the fact that the first order went form being a warlord to a Major power. A major question is why did the empire just give up after jakku, After Endor their is no way HELLLLLLLLLLLLL that the Nr control more territory then the Empire.
This series is suppose to expand but only raises other question.
We should get a movie
Called Star Wars Empire's End or Endor Aftermath
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I feel like the new canon has potential in its exploration of the rise of the empire era as well as the time between 6 and 7. My theory is that while we have seen this sudden shift in the balance of power play out with the empire crumbling rapidly and the first order coming out of nowhere I don't believe we have seen every major player in the galaxy. The First Order almost seems like Snoke's puppets (hes not even at their main base during the moment of their planned final victory) and not the primary card hes playing. The first order I suspect is not the only active remnant of the empire/sith forces and is instead acting as more of a distraction while Snoke does whatever he is doing behind the scenes. I understand this might sound weird but to me it sounds like Snoke has fashioned the first order into more of a super powerful terror group than an army meant to reshape the Galaxy. I assume in the aftermath final novel we will learn more about the founding of the First Order and the status of other Imperial remnants. I'm still sort of hoping Thrawn is somewhere with his own new canon Empire of the Hand. Anyway I suspect that Snoke is playing a way more sinister game than simply reforging an empire that already broke once and I wouldn't be surprised actually if he somehow was involved in making the old empire fall apart after Endor
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I feel like the new canon has potential in its exploration of the rise of the empire era as well as the time between 6 and 7. My theory is that while we have seen this sudden shift in the balance of power play out with the empire crumbling rapidly and the first order coming out of nowhere I don't believe we have seen every major player in the galaxy. The First Order almost seems like Snoke's puppets (hes not even at their main base during the moment of their planned final victory) and not the primary card hes playing. The first order I suspect is not the only active remnant of the empire/sith forces and is instead acting as more of a distraction while Snoke does whatever he is doing behind the scenes. I understand this might sound weird but to me it sounds like Snoke has fashioned the first order into more of a super powerful terror group than an army meant to reshape the Galaxy. I assume in the aftermath final novel we will learn more about the founding of the First Order and the status of other Imperial remnants. I'm still sort of hoping Thrawn is somewhere with his own new canon Empire of the Hand. Anyway I suspect that Snoke is playing a way more sinister game than simply reforging an empire that already broke once and I wouldn't be surprised actually if he somehow was involved in making the old empire fall apart after Endor
See their are more problems
1: Why would Snoke waste his time getting thses forces together?
2: Snoke cannot of been unknown to the force users unless... He wasn't in the galaxy at the time.
3: We will not know about the Imperial Remnant because aftermath only covers a short window after Endor(AKA a year)
4: We hear from Kylo Ren that the first order has recover archives from the Empire which means they Know who Thrawn is.
5: WHY IS THEIR A FULLY DETAIL MAP OF THE GALAXY?????
6: Who is this imperial Warlord that the First Order looks up too.
7: Since when did the First order get a weapon that powerful. The empire made only two death stars barely bigger than a moon with and is Powered by kyber crystals and able to only blow up 1 planet. The First Order which lacks planets builds a weapon cable able of destroying entire star systems.
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See their are more problems
1: Why would Snoke waste his time getting thses forces together?
2: Snoke cannot of been unknown to the force users unless... He wasn't in the galaxy at the time.
3: We will not know about the Imperial Remnant because aftermath only covers a short window after Endor(AKA a year)
4: We hear from Kylo Ren that the first order has recover archives from the Empire which means they Know who Thrawn is.
5: WHY IS THEIR A FULLY DETAIL MAP OF THE GALAXY?????
6: Who is this imperial Warlord that the First Order looks up too.
7: Since when did the First order get a weapon that powerful. The empire made only two death stars barely bigger than a moon with and is Powered by kyber crystals and able to only blow up 1 planet. The First Order which lacks planets builds a weapon cable able of destroying entire star systems.
Like I said my theory is he is using the first order like pawns to distract everyone from his real plans. Snoke could be someone who was known but not directly involved in events or he could be like some have theorized and be an ancient reawakened sith. The aftermath books are still not done and are showing off events that led to the current status quo so presumably snoke will make an appearance and might have already if he is actully Sloane. They would know who Thrawn is but not everything he did or is doing at the time of force awakens if still alive. I dont understand what you even mean by asking why is there a map. Sloane and snoke might be same person. The first order has planets in the unknown regions
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Like I said my theory is he is using the first order like pawns to distract everyone from his real plans. Snoke could be someone who was known but not directly involved in events or he could be like some have theorized and be an ancient reawakened sith. The aftermath books are still not done and are showing off events that led to the current status quo so presumably snoke will make an appearance and might have already if he is actully Sloane. They would know who Thrawn is but not everything he did or is doing at the time of force awakens if still alive. I dont understand what you even mean by asking why is there a map. Sloane and snoke might be same person. The first order has planets in the unknown regions
That's the problem though I don't want a version of Dark Empire made by Disney(Basically I don't want him to be Palps). Snoke cant Sloane for she was bron during the rise of the empire and Snoke longer ago then that. Also Disney themselves said that the sith order died at Endor with the death star. And BTW that is exactly what Vader and Paplatine did with the empire they use it to control the galaxy. If Snoke is using the first order like pawns then why give them the Knights of Ren and Kylo Ren? Now we know that the NR is fragmented(Ironic) With CSA and the Hutts attempting to seize power. The First Order and the resistance took hits from this battle, but if Snoke has a sith army planed to invade he do it now.
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That's the problem though I don't want a version of Dark Empire made by Disney(Basically I don't want him to be Palps). Snoke cant Sloane for she was bron during the rise of the empire and Snoke longer ago then that. Also Disney themselves said that the sith order died at Endor with the death star. And BTW that is exactly what Vader and Paplatine did with the empire they use it to control the galaxy. If Snoke is using the first order like pawns then why give them the Knights of Ren and Kylo Ren? Now we know that the NR is fragmented(Ironic) With CSA and the Hutts attempting to seize power. The First Order and the resistance took hits from this battle, but if Snoke has a sith army planed to invade he do it now.
Disney could be using wordplay when they say the Sith Order died. The sith order of the rule of 2 died at Endor with Palps but the sith themselves in their ancient pre rule of 2 form could still exist. He didn't give them the Knights of Ren. Just Kylo. The rest are presumably off doing other things for Snoke instead of helping the order.
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So basis rehash. Bloody pointless. This is why sometimes it's best to leave things be with an ending.
Everything that COULD be done HAS already been done
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You know what would be kind of cool a film I call Rouge Squadron
simple: Rebel Pilots who defect from the rebel alliance after Endor.
They have Black x-wings and fight at jakku
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Who else wants to make a bet that Episode VIII starts with the First Order having inexplicably taken over most of the Galaxy and the New Republic/Republic/Resistance/Rebels/good guys on the run and hiding on a distant planet? I'll take all offers!
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I think this question is really more than one part. The first is very easy: who is to blame for rebooting the canon? The answer would be Disney and the Story Group; they are the ones who decided to flip the switch and start again. Now I am not saying that is a terrible, evil thing. It's what happened, and while I may not like it I could understand why. The previous iteration of what is now the Story Group gave reconciling everything to canon a valiant effort, but there were plenty of inconsistencies. There were also an equal number of garbage works to gems in the EU. As much as I would like to, I cannot fault them for wanting to start again.
However, we have to ask ourselves when the plan to reboot canon really began. I propose that it had begun when The Clone Wars was released. Let's just take a quick overview of the things TCW did:
Completely rewrote Mandalore and the Mandalorians
Completely rewrote Dathomir and the population thereof
Completely rewrote how lightsaber crystals work
Attempted to bring Durge in, only he was going to be human, not Gen'Dai
Killed Even Piell
Those are just the ones I can think of offhand. It's clear that even then there were plans to completely rewrite canon, most likely even leading to a reboot anyways.
The more in depth question lies in who is to blame for the distressing turn this new canon is taking. Let's examine each of the valid entries on the poll and see if we can identify the source.
George Lucas: the man takes enough flak for stuff as it is, and while he can be credited for some ridiculous things in the new canon (requesting they bring Maul back to life for one), he isn't in control anymore, so he is most definitely not to blame. Him selling Star Wars to Disney was a way to keep Star Wars alive and thriving, and there is nothing wrong with his intent.
Dave Filoni: the guy's done more harm than good for Star Wars. He succeeded in wrecking a lot of canon before the reboot was announced. However, he doesn't have a hold on all the aspects of the IP, nor is he in complete control of what happens, so he can't be the problem.
Us: yes, I will admit our rose-colored glasses of nostalgia is most likely blinding us to some of the good in the new canon. However, I have spoken to many of my friends who have had absolutely zero exposure to the EU and they are also dissatisfied with the direction Star Wars is headed.
Story Group: they are working on the new content, so it must be their fault, right? Not exactly. They were actually formed about two years before the canon wipe. The decision to wipe and start again, though executed by them, did not originate from them. In addition, their job isn't to write Star Wars, it is only to determine canon and ensure no parts of the new canon clash in the way the old canon did.
Disney: the Big Bad, the Evil of all Evils, the one we dare not speak of. Surely, as we have reached the end of the list they must be the ones to blame! Well, yes and no. It is true that the executives and the like are the ones who end up approving what happens, in the end they are looking at what will net the most money, and while this is definitely sad, they have a bottom line they are trying to hit.
No, the real problem is modern society. Today's culture wants shallow. They want action without substance. They want effects over form. No story, and predictable. That's why reboots are the in thing, because people already know what's going to happen. That's why movies like the Avengers are such a big hit: a 2 1/2 hour fight scene without a plot doesn't require any brain power to comprehend. You even see this trend in video games, with the fall of strategy-based games and the rise of the modern FPS. Any entertainment that dares to go against this has a tough battle ahead of them. It is just more profitable to make what people want to see. Thus if ever a change is to happen, it has to be with the audience first. When the companies see the audience wants something more than cheap, lifeless rehash they'll give it to them.
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I think this question is really more than one part. The first is very easy: who is to blame for rebooting the canon? The answer would be Disney and the Story Group; they are the ones who decided to flip the switch and start again. Now I am not saying that is a terrible, evil thing. It's what happened, and while I may not like it I could understand why. The previous iteration of what is now the Story Group gave reconciling everything to canon a valiant effort, but there were plenty of inconsistencies. There were also an equal number of garbage works to gems in the EU. As much as I would like to, I cannot fault them for wanting to start again.
However, we have to ask ourselves when the plan to reboot canon really began. I propose that it had begun when The Clone Wars was released. Let's just take a quick overview of the things TCW did:
Completely rewrote Mandalore and the Mandalorians
Completely rewrote Dathomir and the population thereof
Completely rewrote how lightsaber crystals work
Attempted to bring Durge in, only he was going to be human, not Gen'Dai
Killed Even Piell
Those are just the ones I can think of offhand. It's clear that even then there were plans to completely rewrite canon, most likely even leading to a reboot anyways.
The more in depth question lies in who is to blame for the distressing turn this new canon is taking. Let's examine each of the valid entries on the poll and see if we can identify the source.
George Lucas: the man takes enough flak for stuff as it is, and while he can be credited for some ridiculous things in the new canon (requesting they bring Maul back to life for one), he isn't in control anymore, so he is most definitely not to blame. Him selling Star Wars to Disney was a way to keep Star Wars alive and thriving, and there is nothing wrong with his intent.
Dave Filoni: the guy's done more harm than good for Star Wars. He succeeded in wrecking a lot of canon before the reboot was announced. However, he doesn't have a hold on all the aspects of the IP, nor is he in complete control of what happens, so he can't be the problem.
Us: yes, I will admit our rose-colored glasses of nostalgia is most likely blinding us to some of the good in the new canon. However, I have spoken to many of my friends who have had absolutely zero exposure to the EU and they are also dissatisfied with the direction Star Wars is headed.
Story Group: they are working on the new content, so it must be their fault, right? Not exactly. They were actually formed about two years before the canon wipe. The decision to wipe and start again, though executed by them, did not originate from them. In addition, their job isn't to write Star Wars, it is only to determine canon and ensure no parts of the new canon clash in the way the old canon did.
Disney: the Big Bad, the Evil of all Evils, the one we dare not speak of. Surely, as we have reached the end of the list they must be the ones to blame! Well, yes and no. It is true that the executives and the like are the ones who end up approving what happens, in the end they are looking at what will net the most money, and while this is definitely sad, they have a bottom line they are trying to hit.
No, the real problem is modern society. Today's culture wants shallow. They want action without substance. They want effects over form. No story, and predictable. That's why reboots are the in thing, because people already know what's going to happen. That's why movies like the Avengers are such a big hit: a 2 1/2 hour fight scene without a plot doesn't require any brain power to comprehend. You even see this trend in video games, with the fall of strategy-based games and the rise of the modern FPS. Any entertainment that dares to go against this has a tough battle ahead of them. It is just more profitable to make what people want to see. Thus if ever a change is to happen, it has to be with the audience first. When the companies see the audience wants something more than cheap, lifeless rehash they'll give it to them.
you sir, my alter self(just kidding) are a freakin philosopher. but I agree. there was more infasis on action with no plot, plus the additional modern language{like foul language(ugh)] so no one wants complicated plots or like double twists, original content, or plots. if this doesn't change, Disney WILL eventually lose star wars, and what will the next manic that gets ahold of it do. unless it changes, say good bye to new, logical, constructive star wars canon. by the way, are their any new legends books available?
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you sir, my alter self(just kidding) are a freakin philosopher. but I agree. there was more infasis on action with no plot, plus the additional modern language[like foul language(ugh)] so no one wants complicated plots or like double twists, original content, or plots. if this doesn't change, Disney WILL eventually lose star wars, and what will the next manic that gets ahold of it do. unless it changes, say good bye to new, logical, constructive star wars canon. by the way, are their any new legends books available?
Heh, more like a procrastinator. I had this sitting halfway completed on my phone for quite some time and just didn't get around to finishing it. I think by the time Disney loses Star Wars they will have milked every last drop out of the franchise so basically no one will be willing to touch it for some time. The only ones that will would more than likely be those brave enough to try something different as well, so who knows. That's a long ways off though.
To answer your question, no there aren't any new Legends novels nor will there be. That's probably what irks me the most about the separation of Disney-canon and EU. The Mouse House's other big franchise (Marvel) has proven that two universes can coexist and both do rather well (Cinematic and Comic Universes). But they didn't do that with Star Wars. They just halted all EU works. I mean, at least they could have finished off the main novel and comic storylines. It didn't have to be so abrupt
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Heh, more like a procrastinator. I had this sitting halfway completed on my phone for quite some time and just didn't get around to finishing it. I think by the time Disney loses Star Wars they will have milked every last drop out of the franchise so basically no one will be willing to touch it for some time. The only ones that will would more than likely be those brave enough to try something different as well, so who knows. That's a long ways off though.
To answer your question, no there aren't any new Legends novels nor will there be. That's probably what irks me the most about the separation of Disney-canon and EU. The Mouse House's other big franchise (Marvel) has proven that two universes can coexist and both do rather well (Cinematic and Comic Universes). But they didn't do that with Star Wars. They just halted all EU works. I mean, at least they could have finished off the main novel and comic storylines. It didn't have to be so abrupt
like rumors surface 1-2 years back about a series of books and comic books about the warlords and giving more detail to them, but sadly it was gassed like the rest of the EU(You get the joke)