Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => The Lounge => Topic started by: Mandalore-the-Inquizitor on September 25, 2007, 11:08:12 AM
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ga8AyL_yQqE id hate to be Under its guns
This tread is for information videos and pics of attack choppers
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well id not be too happy unnder this babies guns(http://courses.washington.edu/com361/Iraq/military/19.ah64d.apache.jpg)
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(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/its_my_stuff/jets/1c7b.jpg) ka-50 is way mor manverable and has a bigger cannon
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Actually the Apache has the same exact round, 30mm, so its not 'way bigger', its not even bigger
And the Apache has more speed and a greater rate of climb and a higher ceiling
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Kqa-50
Performance
Maximum speed: 350 km/h (189 knots, 217 mph)
Cruise speed: 270 km/h (146 knots, 168 mph)
Range: 1,160 km (720 miles)
Service ceiling: 5,500 m (18,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 10 m/s (1,970 ft/min)
Disc loading: 30 kg/m
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Fine, its faster by 30 mph, but a humvees faster than a tank and the tank is better
The Apache can go a lot farther and stay in battle a lot longer
It can also carry nearly 3 times the ammo for its gun
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yes the pay load is massive but wat good is that if a man on the groun with a Rpg cant take out its slow moving ass
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30 mph doesnt matter much to a rocket
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Yeah, this paticular difference in speed doesn't really matter. Besides the guy with the RPG would be dead.
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Mil Mi-24. Now that's a beast.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/df/Macedonian_Mi-24V_in_Action.jpg/180px-Macedonian_Mi-24V_in_Action.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Mi24CP.jpg/250px-Mi24CP.jpg)
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well it does look quite tough could you get a better pic
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if you want better pick go on wikipedia or google to find them. I just picked those two from wikipedia.
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Ahh yes nice
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If theyd have made the Commanche it would have kicked everyones butts
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IF but Us gov is cheap
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lol, the US government, cheap, thats just ridiculous
It was partly money, but mainly because its main purpose was stealth reconnasaince but unmanned vehicles are getting a hell of alot better than the Commanche at it
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I think that USA government doesn't stop military research because they can't afford it. I think the problem must be in the concept. Let's face: At the moment USA uses quite large % of it's GDP to military.
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If we went to real war with a draft and mutual agreement, our economy would get substantial gains. We would be the absolute war machine. Look at WWII. We got out of a depression. Im sure you agree.
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The ending with the Commanche project was mainly because now the unmanned reconnaisance vehicles and unmanned other stuff is growing alot faster and better than expected, so the Commanches real role was kinda replaced by UAVs
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If we went to real war with a draft and mutual agreement, our economy would get substantial gains. We would be the absolute war machine. Look at WWII. We got out of a depression. Im sure you agree.
Yep. You were weak when you entered the war but when it ended you were one of world's two superpowers. And that was all because you were attacked by Japan. But usa is seriously in debt. the national debt of usa is 8 845 127 059 284,86 dollars. and there is about 300 million inhabitant in usa. when you divide that debt to all those people it's 29 357,26 dollars for one person.
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which is gonna cause another depression if you ask m...the customers will panic and withdraw their money frm the banks. the banks cant pay everyone so they take money back from other countries. businesses in U.S and other countries will collapse and people still wont get their money. emd result = depression.
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Unless the Federal Reserve backs the banks.. like the Bank of England promised to do recently if Northern Rock went under..
But this has gone slightly off topic - economic depression is more suited to the Fall of the USA thread methinks..
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or like Finland supported banks in the resession of 1990s. but how does anything of this relate to attack choppers?
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one word
TOPIC
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Isn't this KA-50 supposed to be the best attack chopper in the world now? I mean it is said to be better than any other chopper that is used by usa, gb or russia.
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uh, its made by Russia, so it cant be any better than itself
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Why does Russia matter? There still in the toilet. I mean no offense to any Russians or Russian fanboys, but you cant consider them a major power yet.
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M-T-L and Meyer, you just kiss up to any german or soviet anything.
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Well one thing never changes Raptor Know Nothing I happen to not Belive evry once of bull shit propaganda the us feeds every day
THE Russain make good Weapons The germans make good weaopos Enven finland makes good guns and stuff
The Us Makes Cheap Relible Crap In huge qualitys Other counterys cant afford to sling out replacement tanks and guns every year
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What the hell are you talking about? How the hell is US stuff going to be cheap crap? And there is no propaganda, only some peoples paranoia
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oh please The First gulf war the us lost $ tank aginst How many T-72 Thats bull shit and i know it look U wann cripple america Dont give us gas And were fucked The M-16 for instance is Cheap As is our army bein theve been presented with like 10 new replacements but they rejected them all for 1 reason they cost too much THe us Like Chep Mass Produced Guns And that Vile pos the abrams is a gas guzzler Kill off the fuel convoys and Screech Their not movin They basicly sit Ther and bee target practice
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Wow, someone needs to chill
The Abrams tank is one of the most advanced tanks in the world, how the hell is it cheap crap?
And the M-16 is an amazing gun, its used by hundreds of organizations and works wonderfly, they're aren't 'cheap' and they're mass produced cause they sell so many, what do you want a handmade rifle for every soldier with so many inconcistisies every gun is different?
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M-T-L and Meyer, you just kiss up to any german or soviet anything.
Well if it's a beautiful woman, then yes.
And M-T-I, maybe you should check your medication.
And I think that Abrams isn't even the best tank of USA anymore. it's good though. you shouldn't underestimate the weaponary of USA, M-T-I. But neither should anyone underestimate the weaponary of Russia.
I don't think that M-16 is a good weapon. too much plastic. but the more advangend model, M-4, now that's a great gun.
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i dont underestimate the us weapons i knoe theri goo but they try and make them sound in vunrable qand this is all off topic so back on topic
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What US tank is better than the Abrams?
And all guns are going away from metals now
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Makes them lighter, and eliminates some of the weaknesses attributed to the metal.
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Yeah, everybody is moving on to composites
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but composites are more vulnerable for nature. and I bet there must be some american tank that can beat abrams. not sure tough.
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more vulnerable for nature?
No, the Abrams is the latest production tank for the US, theres nothing that the US has thats better, there isn't a reason to make something better, its fine as is
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well someday you have to. but apparently that day hasn't arrived yet.
And yes. in vietnam war it was discovered that M-16 was more likely to jam because of water, sand and dust. AK-47 handled those problems much better. but maybe that is fixed now.
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The old m-16's of Vietnam didn't use composites, and the jamming was mainly caused from the round they used, the round would swell up and jam in the camber when moisture got to it for to long, but they fixed that in a year or two
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if i were in the us army id kill my enemy and take his ak strap a frag to my m-16 and throw it at another enemy
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Why? the AK's they use are old as hell, rarely clean, and will probably jam after the 10th round
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no they won't. that's one the good things in AK that it won't jam if it's little dirty. It's said that you can bury it in sand for years and it will hae no effect for the weapon.
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i'm not saying itd jam because its dirty, im saying it'd jam because its old and worn out
And besides, most troops dont even use the M-16 anymore, mainly m4s or m4 variants
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its a modified m-16 same basic thing and An Ak being old dose not affect its proformence i own a sovirt tokarev rilfe from late ww2 and it works fine and i use it alot and it has no problems if you take care of a good gun it will last a hundred years easy
So i still belive the Ak is better You will not be Making me change my mind for a long time savvy
TOPIC
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I'm not trying to change you're mind, and its not the same basic thing, otherwise the rk-26 would be the same basic thing as an ak-47
Anyway, to topic
The Commanche would probably have been the best chopper, unfortuneately we will never know
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no we wont and the arms race wouyld cxontine the therd be somthing better Its Military
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The arms race is over, you dont actually think Russia and the US are still competing do you?
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oh please all contruys stillcompet its a subtel dont fuck with me R and d always goes on Milityarys are always competing although not the us and russia but all countrys compete Even if its slight ly in a subtle arms race
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No, its not an arms race, its simply keeping up with current technology
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Russia is in туалет(toilet).
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it seems that arms race is about to begin again. Russia sends it's bombers to patrol northern seas, russia build the most destructive non-nuclear bomb, USA builds missile defends system in eastern Europe and russia is trying to counter it. and of course, as always, russian planes are once again violating Finlands airspace. so it could begin again in near future.
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Russia just doesn't have the resources
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what do you mean? It's has the largest concentration of natural resources in the World.
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Sure, but their economy and military are in a very poor position, especially the military
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yep. but I'm sure they can put a hell of a fight if you try to attack there.
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Maybe if you attack, they still ahve alot of equipment even if its outdated or in average condition
But Russia can't produce anything new on a big scale
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few effective are better than many little damage causing weapons.
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well if Putin would do his jod russia would not be in the toilet They need international help it looks like to me a attack from a strong country like china would cripple them but of coures after rebuilding ur government from years of socilism it not expected fro u to have large amounts of money to throw around If they gett thre econmy back up thyll be a good countr again not that their not they be a better country at least better than their socilist period
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Its not Putins fault, he didn't do too bad
And if anyone in Asia or Europe is attacked by the Chinese they'd probably be screwed, unless nukes got invoolved
And to Meyer I know their weapons are good like the AK, im not saying they aren't, but the military as a whole is just in a wreck
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Attack from china could cripple every country. Can you imagine what would happen if China and India would form an military alliance.
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India wouldn'y matter much, they don't have much of a military
And an attack from China short of nukes couldn't cripple every country, i mean sure they have millions of troops, but can they get them across the ocean effectively?
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Only if they have enough ships, ASW and air superiority...
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do they need those if invading russia?
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I was replying to Scarecrow.. they would need those to get their armed forces across the sea.
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I know Russia would be screwed, im just saying they couldn't beat every country
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russia would be screwd unless the US or the europeans help them
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Although id like to see how well China's military could handle the logistics of an army that large, it would be quite the project
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well they handle it now. Why would it be so much harder in war?
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War time shortages, the complex logistics of moving personnel and equipment to the battle lines, enemy interruption of supply lines..
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they handle it now because they're all inChina in military bases, makes it much easier
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When did China get the status of Major military power? Sure they have people, but they dont have major tank or firearm power. Are they going to fight with action figures?
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China has good guns, like the qbz 95, and they have good solid tanks and stuff, none of their stuff is really that incredible like the western nations, but millions with good stuff can be fine against thousands with great stuff
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yep Hordes of China Vs the Military Quality of the west
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plus china has great number of planes in their air force. one of the largest in the World.
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well i didnt know that
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Of course Russia had the largest air force at the outbreak of ww2, and that didnt help them much
But nowadays, a bullets a bullet and a guns a gun, military technology gaps between Chinas stuff and the stuff of European nations and stuff isn't like the Chinese stuff wont work, the European stuff is just accurate for another 50 yards
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you should never underestimate your potential enemy. Hitler underestimated rusia and what happened to him? I think no country can't win a war against China without suffering heavy casualties. technology and the range of weapons doesn't nessecarily matter. I mean germans had tanks that could destroy russian tanks from a 1km distance and allied tanks even farther. but did it help them? numbers aren't easily defeated by technological superiority.
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i wasnt saying the 50 yard differnece was an advantage, i was trying to say the differences are minimal
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You know, you lot really should read "Red Storm Rising" by Tom Clancy..
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Yeah, the overwhelming soviets simply overwhelm until their supplies are cut out
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Huh Blitz. If fight with Rushes Sneak attacks to cut of suppyl lines and cripple my emys air force bases
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you fight? oh, i get it you're a general in the army, i forgot
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I hope you won't kill your men foolishly.
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You're talking to the guy who wants to have WW3 cause hes bored
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Why can't wars be fought with simulators? it would be so much easier and simpler. Or paintball war. when you get fatal hit you can go home and watch TV. Or one solution is that the leaders of countries would fight. like Putin vs Bush. You could even sell tickets for that match and it could be televisionized.
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now theirs an idea, a fight
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Why can't wars be fought with simulators? it would be so much easier and simpler. Or paintball war. when you get fatal hit you can go home and watch TV. Or one solution is that the leaders of countries would fight. like Putin vs Bush. You could even sell tickets for that match and it could be televisionized.
So would you ask mankind who has been fighting with each other for more then hundreds and thousands of years to just stop in an instant?, and the leaders are too lazy to fight thats why they are leaders.
Well good luck man, tell me if you succeed.
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Well if all people would want that what can the leaders do? they do as the people say they have to do. but then again when has everyone agreed on something? but you never know.
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Leaders dont have to do what people say, how about you like at Mynamar, their people aren't too happy with the leaders right now
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but their leader isn't chosen by the people or is he? I meant that in democratic country it should be that politicians do what people say.
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And none would agree to fighting simulators, if you lose a simulator fight are you really gonna let the other country control you? i think not
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very likely not. well that leaves and option that politicians go to fight if they want war.
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Its still the same, although i wouldn't mind seeing it
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Soldiers of every country! Declare a strike! Strike! Strike! Strike!
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This strike cant happen in Finland.
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why not?
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Because they dont have a military to strike.
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Come and see if we have a military. Man we did a good job beating soviet union without a military. damn we are good. Honestly Pellaeon don't ever come to Finland. you'll get beaten in no time and who wants that.
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well my list of wester allies is russia ,china, finland and germany
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what do you mean by "western allies"?
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doh i mean eastern sorry
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well my list of wester allies is russia ,china, finland and germany
I dont get it
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I would moon the Finnish, if I had the chance.
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what's moon?
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Dropping your pants and showing your ass
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your ass would be knifed and beaten red very quickly. and after that you ould be invited to join people when they go to bar to have a "few".
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boys forget that fool lets go get a drink and back to topic
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Well we could say that attack Choppers means people attacking and chopping off "asses".
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bring in the chainsaw!
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apache is good
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not really
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And just why not?
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slow not very manuverable guzzels fuel and has too shor of a range to be very effctive of course it is american made so.....
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Its not slow, and its very manuverable.
It also has a range of more than 400 miles more than your precious Blackshark, so if the Apache's range isnt very effective, the Blackshark must plain suck
And nothing is wrong with American made stuff
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Oh I think there is many things that are wrong in american made stuff. everything has some bad sides but many also have good sides.
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Oh, im not saying they're perfect, im just saying that American made stuff is good almost always and really good for the most part. For some reason MTI thinks American made stuff isn't any good
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well the Apache isn't the most manouverable and fastest attack chopper but it is one of the best in terms of firepower. And propably one of the best attack choppers in the world.
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Its probably one of the best combinations of it all
Its too bad the Pentagon doesn't like choppers anymore
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I think they don't use them anymore is because our current enemy likes RPGs.
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no, they're moving on to UAV's
thats why they ditched the Commanche
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well choppers are quite vulnerable to ground fire. air planes, choppers and tanks have lost most of their potential because of the age of missiles, both long range and infantry based ones. infantry is once more the dominant force on the battlefield.
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I do agree about the chopper part and maybe tank part but I do not agree about infantry being the "dominant force on the battlefield" for these reasons, but for others.