Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Lord Xizer on December 13, 2014, 10:53:31 AM
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Delvardus, Harrsk and Teradoc. Okay they get killed off rather early in Darksaber, they have all displayed ridiculous Megalomania in their actions and titles. Each had been defeated by the New republic and forced to flee much of their holdings but I wonder about each of these three Men. Each of them were admirals BEFORE Endor, each had their own unique approach to their ambitions.
What interests me about them is their approaches to tactical build up was so drastically different.
Delvardus went with pure quality, maximizing his killpower into one overwhelming vessel and a few other heavy capital ships. He invested in new tech, inovation and crushing centralized power in the Night Hammer.
Teradoc believed in mass production of small cheap units, a cuiser and frigate philosphy.
Harrsk went with a balanced medium approach. Battleships but standard ones that could be built in decent numbers and speed with interworkable parts and existing tech to simplify construction.
My question is which of these policies would you follow?
I personally would probably have favored Delvardus's doctrine. I believe that a vessel of Night Hammer's calibur is essential to a fleet. Technologically it is unique among SSDs. It had Stealth armor over the standard hull armor, making it more heavily armored, it required less than HALF the crew of a standard SSD, yet it's capacity for fighters and bombers was SIGNIFICANTLY higher than other SSDs(Over one Thousand Fighters acording to it's specs) It's safety systems were such that even when destroyed by the plot device, nearly ALL her crew escaped(Something other SSDs seem bad at, Executor, Iron Fist, Terror both Eclipse's and Aggressor are prime examples) yet dispite the massively reduced crew needed, it lacked none of the firepower of the other SSDs and still had enough ground forces for planetary assault or occupation. This vessel was superior to anything else fielded in it's day. It was equivalent to 20 ISDs in power, or 40 VSDs making it more than capable of crushing Harrsk by itself and holding it's own against easily half of Teradoc's main battle fleet-by ITSELF, coupled with Delvardus's other Forces he was a match for Harsk or Teradoc with this vessel. Maybe it's my German blood but I always go for quality over quantity.
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I tend to agree with you - in games I tend to go for the small, specialized powerful fleet rather than the big one. To add to your points regarding the Night Hammer, there is also the simple psychological impact of facing such a ship - a pure black void in space that your sensors can't get a good reading on, except that it's huge, until suddenly waves of coherent light fly out of it and destroy anything they touch? That is some scary shit to face.
The downside to this approach is that it is more vulnerable to mistakes made on your part - when your fleet is smaller, you've got less room for error, less ability to absorb a loss or two and regroup.
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Also agreed to a point, I'd go the Delvardus route. But probably I'd focus on something a bit easier to field than an Executor. Maybe Bellator classes or even go all the way down and do Praetor-II's. While I am a strong believer in quality over quantity, I'd want something that isn't QUITE such a huge target. I imagine a stealth Bellator would be quite awesome.
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You could probably field two or even three stealth Bellators in exchange for the Night Hammer... that'd add a nice degree of flexibility to your fleet.
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You could probably field two or even three stealth Bellators in exchange for the Night Hammer... that'd add a nice degree of flexibility to your fleet.
Yes, they'd be fun to run around a field with.
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Yes, they'd be fun to run around a field with.
I'd still go with the Night Hammer, you get what you pay for after all and I'm more than confident the Night Hammer with a few support ships under my command would be more than a match for an opposing fleet.
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You had me at Superstardestroyer! xD
I would also go with Delvardus
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You had me at Superstardestroyer! xD
I would also go with Delvardus
"And yes Mr. Wayne, it also comes in Black."
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I'd still go with the Night Hammer, you get what you pay for after all and I'm more than confident the Night Hammer with a few support ships under my command would be more than a match for an opposing fleet.
Oh, I probably would too, but like I said, the numerically smaller force's big disadvantage is that if anything goes badly wrong once, you're pretty screwed. It's a lot easier to predict the outcome of a lot of small engagements over time than it is one huge battle where the unexpected can turn the tide in an instant (like an A-wing through the bridge). When using this smaller force, one needs to be more cautious with it - think of how careful Zsinj was with Iron Fist, for instance.
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Oh, I probably would too, but like I said, the numerically smaller force's big disadvantage is that if anything goes badly wrong once, you're pretty screwed. It's a lot easier to predict the outcome of a lot of small engagements over time than it is one huge battle where the unexpected can turn the tide in an instant (like an A-wing through the bridge). When using this smaller force, one needs to be more cautious with it - think of how careful Zsinj was with Iron Fist, for instance.
That IS a good point and Zsinj's use of Iron Fist would be fairly similar to how such a vessel should be employed. As a strategic powerhouse. It comes in and smashes high profile targets, not in every engagement but in visible ones. This can create a panic, a desire for your enemy to hunt this vessel down, directing his focus so he is responding to YOUR moves rather than creating his own. The NR and IR spent nearly half a year trying to Hunt Zsinj's Iron Fist down rather than focusing wide scale attacks on his territory(Which considering the 3 front war he had would have destroyed him. The very presence of such a vessel as the Night Hammer would compel your enemies to try and hunt you down for the ships sake if nothing else to erase what potential the ship is CAPABLE of, even if it never is used it is a threat by it's mere EXISTENCE, because of what it can do by itself at ANY GIVEN moment.
Daala should NEVER have put that vessel on the front when she saw Pellaeon's ISDs were gone. It should have had some shake down engagements first, something to 'bloody' the crew and train them. Focus on coordination and perfecting the crew and it's responses. Instead she took a vessel that was brand new out of the yards with a fresh crew(Many of which had never SEEN an SSD much less served on one before in a recently reunited faction that was comprised almost entirely of newly recruited or conscripted troops. The result? Poor battle performance, not following up on basic security procedures and the loss of an irreplaceable vessel.
For all the ego Delvardus has and his being beaten by Nantz and Sovv(Nantz was one of the best admirals outside of Ackbar) and Sovv later became a Supreme Commander(granted without great successes during the Vong War but a lot of that was due to political interferance, lot of the vets being retired and an enemy NO one was ready for) Delvardus had the tactical forsight to realize a vessel like this could give him unquestioned Dominance as well as a better chance to kill his rivals Harrsk and Teradoc in strategic strikes, after their deaths their forces would most likely have defected to him swelling his ranks further. He also apparently took great pains in his vessels escape protocals based off of him and his crew surviving the Thalassa's destruction and his evident hand in making sure the Night Hammer's crew could escape should the situation require it. He also was the only warlord at the end who had some stones, I mean every one else was panicking, begging or trying to get out. He realized he was going to die but spent his last moments trying to kill his killer. I can admire that.
Had the Night Hammer been finished and left away from Daala or given to Pellaeon that vessel could have been a terror to the New Republic for years.
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Well, we know the rule of Daala, anything good she touches won't last long.
I mean she has her moments but her bad ones outweigh the good at times.
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Well, we know the rule of Daala, anything good she touches won't last long.
I mean she has her moments but her bad ones outweigh the good at times.
Course, Daala in the old days...Then the last time we saw her...
...I'm not sure how I messed up editing a post XD
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Daala was one of those characters that never needs to come back, yet somehow always does. Never was a fan.
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Well, we know the rule of Daala, anything good she touches won't last long.
I mean she has her moments but her bad ones outweigh the good at times.
She is the 80s Cobra Commander of the SW Universe
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She is the 80s Cobra Commander of the SW Universe
...my god, that is perfectly accurate.
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Actually, yeah. Except not as annoying a voice I'd imagine.
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Actually, yeah. Except not as annoying a voice I'd imagine.
it's kind of ironic that the two biggest female baddies in the Empire are both completely inept at what they do. If the writers of those characters were looking to show threatening-yet equal leads to the male villains, that kind of tanked. Isard drove Fel into the Rebels arms, fragmented the Imperial military worse than it was, was directly responsible for giving legitamcy to the Rebels by giving them Brentaal, Borleias and Coruscant and Thyferra as well as and Interdictor cruiser, three ISDIIs the salvageable 9 VSDs guarding coruscant and of course Lusankya while delegitamizing her own rule, killing or alienating capable officers like Yonka.
Daala manages to lose 3 ISDs, the Death Star prototype, the Sun Crusher and most of her own ship. She launches a hasty attack on the NR when she had already lost the element of surprise on what her targets were. Due to her loss of the sun crusher, many Imperial Fortress worlds with their forces were destroyed by the renegade super weapon. She lost MAW Installation, then was crushed utterly when she backed up the Moffs over Pellaeon's OWN warnings and launched the attacks that started the Final Imperial push that led to the Remnant being reduced to just 8 sectors.
Not a great listing. Hell Leonia Tavira was more successful and intelligent than EITHER of these two clowns. They would have fit right in with the old Cobra.
(To be fair so would the majority of the Deep Core Warlords)
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Not a great listing. Hell Leonia Tavira was more successful and intelligent than EITHER of these two clowns. They would have fit right in with the old Cobra.
(To be fair so would the majority of the Deep Core Warlords)
Unfortunately for female empowerment, Tavira's own successes came mostly from exploiting her looks and through forcing the Jensaarai to work for her. Nearly every female Imperial/warlord character I can think of tended to suck, and those that didn't all ended up defecting (Gara Pethothel, for example).
Fortunately, things tend to be better when looking at the women of the Alliance, then NR, then Alliance again.
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Unfortunately for female empowerment, Tavira's own successes came mostly from exploiting her looks and through forcing the Jensaarai to work for her. Nearly every female Imperial/warlord character I can think of tended to suck, and those that didn't all ended up defecting (Gara Pethothel, for example).
Fortunately, things tend to be better when looking at the women of the Alliance, then NR, then Alliance again.
This is true the NR and Alliance have significantly more Female empowerment friendly characters. Leia, Jaina, Tahiri, Mara, etc. The list goes on quite a ways
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"And yes Mr. Wayne, it also comes in Black."
Excellent!
But actually, while playing a bit of Galactic Conquest again i realised i have an approach somewhat between Harrsk and Delvardus.
I build massive fleets of Victory II Stardestroyer, and Escortcarriers to protect my borders and later, when i got enough money, i will reinforce that with Superstardestroyers.
The first Superstardestroyer, with all my Stardestroyers and other heavy ships combined making up my Attackfleet to go out into one direction and conquering and destroying everything in its path 8=)
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Excellent!
But actually, while playing a bit of Galactic Conquest again i realised i have an approach somewhat between Harrsk and Delvardus.
I build massive fleets of Victory II Stardestroyer, and Escortcarriers
I think you mean a combination of Delvardus and Teradoc
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I think you mean a combination of Delvardus and Teradoc
I wasnt sure about that myself.
Victories do classify as Battleships so thats more Harrsk
the great numbers are more from Teradoc true, but i build bigger ship
(and with massive fleets in this case its about 5-10 victories at a borderplanet)
so i went with Harrsk.
Damn you, now im confused ^^
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I wasnt sure about that myself.
Victories do classify as Battleships so thats more Harrsk
the great numbers are more from Teradoc true, but i build bigger ship
(and with massive fleets in this case its about 5-10 victories at a borderplanet)
so i went with Harrsk.
Damn you, now im confused ^^
Terradoc relied on Victories as the mainstay of his fleet.
Harsk relied on more "traditional" imperial ships, ISD's and the like.
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I wasnt sure about that myself.
Victories do classify as Battleships so thats more Harrsk
the great numbers are more from Teradoc true, but i build bigger ship
(and with massive fleets in this case its about 5-10 victories at a borderplanet)
so i went with Harrsk.
Damn you, now im confused ^^
Yeah the mainstay of Harrsk's fleets were ISDs Tectors and the like. Teradoc was the one mass spamming VSDs
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Okay thanks for clearing that up.
I seriously need to read some EU books ^^
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I do say Harrsk gets some points for trying to be more of the traditional fleet while keeping a balance but at the same time, it makes me feel that this really is a weakness that will blow in his face given time.
His fleet is sorta becomes a jack of all trades deal, with a good number of ships but having decent firepower to make it a fight when he has to. While this works very well with the Rebellion...I can't say the same for the New Republic. The NR as time goes by has proven to grow past their old weakness of fleets composed of either old formidable war machines or ships quickly converted for war and are quickly making progress on making actual war machines that can more or less keep up with ISDs.
Overtime, I think Harrsk will find himself outgunned/outnumbered eventually.
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I do say Harrsk gets some points for trying to be more of the traditional fleet while keeping a balance but at the same time, it makes me feel that this really is a weakness that will blow in his face given time.
His fleet is sorta becomes a jack of all trades deal, with a good number of ships but having decent firepower to make it a fight when he has to. While this works very well with the Rebellion...I can't say the same for the New Republic. The NR as time goes by has proven to grow past their old weakness of fleets composed of either old formidable war machines or ships quickly converted for war and are quickly making progress on making actual war machines that can more or less keep up with ISDs.
Overtime, I think Harrsk will find himself outgunned/outnumbered eventually.
By the time of the new class standardization, the MC90 will probably equal to slightly defeat an ISD-I, while a Nebula SD will, without difficulty, defeat an ISD-I.
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By the time of the new class standardization, the MC90 will probably equal to slightly defeat an ISD-I, while a Nebula SD will, without difficulty, defeat an ISD-I.
I'd expect the Tector would probably pull even with the Nebula, maybe be a bit more powerful even, except the Nebula's fighters vs the no-hangar Tector would wreck it.
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I'd expect the Tector would probably pull even with the Nebula, maybe be a bit more powerful even, except the Nebula's fighters vs the no-hangar Tector would wreck it.
Yes plus we do know Harrsk had the Dominion and Megador but they were unmanned in Deep Space Nine(Harrsk's shipyard) my guess is he planned to disassemble these two vessels and build a lot more ISDs with their resources(Similar to what the NR said they would do with Lusankya)
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yes, i'm resurecting this, but i would also go Delvardus route. or maybe somewhere in between Delvardus and Harrsk....
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I see
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yes, i'm resurecting this, but i would also go Delvardus route. or maybe somewhere in between Delvardus and Harrsk....
So ISDs, Battle cruisers and an all powerful SSD
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absolutely. plus tie defenders, interceptors, and the 4 pod tie bombers
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absolutely. plus tie defenders, interceptors, and the 4 pod tie bombers
Night Hammer escorted by two Praetor II battlecruisers, two Immobilzor 418 Interdictor Cruisers and sixteen Victory II Class Star Destroyers with the fighter and bomber squadrons replaced by TIE Defenders. I would be without rival.
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i would have a Night Hammer, 2 Praetor II, 1 Interdictor Star Destroyer, 2 Immobilizor cruisers, 5 ISD-II, 1 Tector, 2 Secutor, 3 torpedo spheres, 5 victory I, 5 Victory II, 4 Imperial II class carriers, and 20 Lancers. the fleet is fully stocked with TIE Defenders, and all ships have added anti-aircraft/point-defence lasers. i would be unstoppable!
now that i say that, i want to see that fleet