Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Corey on July 05, 2014, 07:42:24 PM
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What kind of units/heroes would you expect to see for a Rebel vs Empire GC, set right after Yavin up until Endor? How about planets?
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Obviously Vader, Pally, Veers as the major Empire heroes. For the Rebels, it really wouldn't be that drastically different from Era1 in ICW IMO...
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What kind of units/heroes would you expect to see for a Rebel vs Empire GC, set right after Yavin up until Endor? How about planets?
For the Empire, I would probably keep the Era 1 unit list but add the Tector (the Rebellion should really feel outgunned in this scenario). For heroes, Vader and the Emperor, Veers, Thrawn all come to mind.
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I agree with Revanchist's comment that the Rebels should feel quite outgunned in this GC. I think that B-Wings and A-Wings shouldn't spawn from any carriers (except Home One, maybe?) but need to be purchased to reflect their newness and limited numbers. TIE Interceptors should also be pretty limited, though in my ignorance of modding that to me feels like it'd be harder to implement - maybe only ISD2s get them? Oh, and those should be rare too... maybe Empire doesn't start with any, plus price boosted? TIE Defenders likewise maybe should get a price boost or just be nixed, since they were barely used at the time. Overall, though, their unit lists probably wouldn't be that different from Era 1 IR/NR units.
Empire heroes ideas to add to TLMiller's: Piett on ISD Accuser, Ozzel with SSD Executor, give Vader his personal TIE Advanced to make him the dark mirror of Luke with his solo X-Wing, Soontir Fel with 181st could likewise dark-mirror the Rogues with Antilles, 501st Legion (majorly beefed up stormtrooper squads)
Rebel heroes not already in ICW: Carlist Rieekan, Jan Dodonna, Crix Madine, Tantive IV
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For the Empire, I would probably keep the Era 1 unit list but add the Tector (the Rebellion should really feel outgunned in this scenario). For heroes, Vader and the Emperor, Veers, Thrawn all come to mind.
They wouldn't have Thrawn, he had already left for the unknown regions and hadn't thought about returning for several years yet.
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I'd love to see the Dauntless cruiser. With multiple proton torp launchers, heavy ion cannons and laser cannons, they could be genuinely different from MonCal space-whales.
Also, the Zaarin insurrection as a side plot would be interesting, especially as a playable faction.
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They wouldn't have Thrawn, he had already left for the unknown regions and hadn't thought about returning for several years yet.
According to several bits of lore, most recently the novel Choices of One, Thrawn still participated in galactic affairs during the period between Yavin and Endor. He was responsible for several intelligence operations that helped locate rebel cells and bases, directly participating in at least two of them.
As for units, if its a full scale galactic conquest, it would be a great opportunity to bring back that unit I liked, the Tie Phantom since this would be the time period is was produced in.
Other units, for the empire should be pretty much all of their era one ships but include the tector and praetor II since any combats should be in the outer sectors of the galaxy and those were supposed to be less popular ships which would have been relegated to those sectors. If it was feasible, it might make sense to put a current build limit on tie defenders to reinforce their rarity at this time. The empire could also use skipray blastboats since they enployed those, or if you were feeling ambitious enough to add a new ship to the mod, Xg-1 Star Wing (assault gunboat) were supposed to be standard complement on all imperial star destroyers.
I agree with the idea of not garrisoning A-wings and B-wings except possibly on hero units, and as for capital ships, depending on just how brutally and realistically outgunned the rebels should be, limiting the number of capital ships that they can have at one time might be an idea. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing them get a couple of the other ships they had in star wars rebellion, since someone mentioned the dauntless class.
Heros, Baron Fel, Mara Jade, Hand of judgement, Veers, Piett, Thrawn, Ozzel, heck even Xizor, Vader, Palpatine, would all be good choices, if you wanted to be really mean you could throw in a bunch of the PA heros and warlords who served the empire, though I admit handing the empire several heroes with SSDs right at the start might be a bit rough.
Rebels could have Crix Madine, Luke, Leia, Han+Chewie, Lando, Ackbar, Carlist Rieken, Airen Cracken, Kyle Katarn+ Jan Ors, luke would probably be leading rogue squadron but if not you could put Wedge in, Winter, thats all off the top of my head for Rebel scum, but I am sure there are several more.
Planets, I think it should be mostly planets from the outer rim, mid rim, and wild space with a small amount of the core, and Maybe a tiny amount of the Unknown regions, since between the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Endor, the Alliance did not if I recall have very much influence in most of the core regions, since most of them were very loyal to the empire and even Palpatine himself. All of the planets featured in the original rogue squadron game would be decent choices, Hoth, Tattooine, Barkesh, Chorax, Corellia Gerrard V Kile II, Kessel (the Maw by extension), Taloraan, Fest, Chandrila, Sullust, and Thyferra.
That's all I can think of right now, will post more if I think of it.
EDIT: If memory serves Just prior to the Battle of Endor wasn't the empire supposed to have around 25,000 Imperial II star destroyers? Not sure I would call that super rare.
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They wouldn't have Thrawn, he had already left for the unknown regions and hadn't thought about returning for several years yet.
He was still involved with the GCW during this time period (events of TIE Fighter back that up) since this campaign is to cover from the destruction of the Death Star onwards. Bringing back the Phantom would be cool. As for Praetors, maybe they can start with one but be unable to build any.
For the Rebels you guys are already possibly adding the Dauntless to Ascendancy, so that would be a logical choice. So e old CIS units could work too (the Providence comes to mind). What I think would be cool would be to give them a Corruption-like ability (though of course more limited in scope) that would represent the start of Rebel cells on Imperial planets.
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I think everyone else more or less nailed my requests. The Dauntless, the Phantom, of course Vader should be in.
Oh, but I'd love to see the Royal Guard. Coruscant only, of course. Nothing like landing Pally flanked by all those red robes.
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Empire could have Palpatine, Vader, Piett in Executor, Thrawn in Stalwart, Kaine in Reaper, Zaarin in Glory with some of the more advanced TIE models in it's hangars, Fel and the 181st, Veers.
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Most of what I would suggest has been mentioned already, but I would like to see the Empire get back some Pentastar stuff in order to represent the complete Galactic Empire at it's height. They could get the Storm Commando Escort carrier with it's Tie Hunters, the Gladiator, and maybe some other tie variants like the Tie Advanced. I would love to see the Dauntless make an appearance, the Alliance wouldn't be so short on capital ships and its one of the best looking Rebel ships in my opinion. Maybe the Home One Class could be buildable as well to fill some gaps.
For the Rebels you guys are already possibly adding the Dauntless to Ascendancy, so that would be a logical choice. So e old CIS units could work too (the Providence comes to mind). What I think would be cool would be to give them a Corruption-like ability (though of course more limited in scope) that would represent the start of Rebel cells on Imperial planets.
I like the sound of that! Could give the Rebs the edge they need against the Empire, since they are pretty much outgunned at this point. I also agree that Thrawn should be in, he was still active in galactic affairs for a while after Yavin.
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Hm for the Empire:
Vader in TIE Advanced, Baron Fell in TIE Interceptores with Shild ( In the Endor Time, they have TIE Defendors in theier Squadron?), Emperor Palpatine in A Modified Lambda Shuttle with Escort Fighters. Admiral Ozzel with the Executor, General Tagge with Tagge Cruiser ( Yavin Time ), Admiral Griff, Admiral Sarn with the SSD Terror ( Cloaking Fleet Projekt), Admiral Zaarin with his Modifieded ISD, Admiral Seen and the SSD Venegance ( balance of Power x Wing ). Hm, General Ozzel and Blizzard Command?
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Also, the Zaarin insurrection as a side plot would be interesting, especially as a playable faction.
This I cannot stress enough. As a fan of Zaarin and Thrawn both the idea of a GC with them hunting one another would be especially enjoyable.
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This I cannot stress enough. As a fan of Zaarin and Thrawn both the idea of a GC with them hunting one another would be especially enjoyable.
Oh now that would indeed be wonderful fun...
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Yeah, I would enjoy that. I would love to hunt down Zaarin.
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Yeah, I would enjoy that. I would love to hunt down Zaarin.
Could even do it where each faction has their own form of Strategy as Zaarin was fond of Tech and fighters, fewer cap ships and more Avengers and Defenders vs more cap ships but weaker fighters til late game
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I really like the idea of a pre-Endor GC Scenario. As for planets, how about this: For the Empire, Coruscant being their capitol (perhaps it could be renamed Imperial Center for this GC, as it was in canon?), Kuat was the leading world when it came to naval engineering at the time, with Corellia and Fondor trailing close behind. Other major worlds of Imperial industry were Rothana, Eriadu, and Rendili. Other planets could include Thyferra (the source of bacta for the Empire), Carida (a major stormtrooper academy world), Corulag (a major naval academy world), Prefsbelt IV (another major naval academy), Kessel (the primary penal colony of the Empire), Anaxes (a prominent world in Imperial politics and military), Kashyyyk (a major source of slave labor for the Empire), and Naboo (another prominent world in politics).
For the Rebellion, they would have ownership over Yavin (should the scenario start right after Episode IV), but they would need to move quickly, as an Imperial Fleet would soon retaliate for the Death Star's destruction. With Yavin gone, the Rebel Alliance would have to decide what world would be suitable for their headquarters. Among their choices would be their primary ship provider Mon Calamari, the medical base at Polis Massa, the rebel-sympathetic SpyNet worlds of Bothawui and Kothlis, the two worlds providing war material through Koensayr and Yutrane-Trakata (Ralltiir and Doniphon respectively), the Allied Tion Forces at Turkana, one of the few Core Worlds that support the Rebellion (Chandrila). Among these worlds, the Rebels also have the aid of resistance cells on Aridus, Dressel, Tibrin, Champala, Generis, and Rudrig.
Other worlds that come to mind include worlds under the influence of the Hutts (Tatooine, Nar Shaddaa, Ylesia, Ryloth), as well as Bespin, Hoth, Endor, Sullust, the Graveyard, and Raxus Prime.
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TIE AVENGERS for the Empire!
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I agree with the Zaarin thing. Moff Kalast was a cool plot in vanilla, and fighting warlords is cool in TR. Having a Moff rebel would be cool as either a random event or part of the GC.
This includes when Shadows of the Empire was set, right? I think FoC went in the right direction by trying to include Hutt Space and Black Sun to a greater extent and I'd like some of those planets and units like Tatooine, Nar Shaddaa, the AEG-77 Vigo and Faleen's Fist if there's not too much work involved.
Suggestions for Imperial units/heroes:
TX-130T fighter tanks
Emperor's Hands and Royal Guards
Dark troopers (but no buildable phase III)
The Helmsman and Admiral Giel (but quite costly and time-consuming)
The Executor and Darth Vader (extremely costly and time-consuming - equal to the credit production of the whole map at maximum capacity)
For planets, Sullust is a must have. Where else is the Rebel fleet going to amass?
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Black Sun would be interesting but how would you go about it? Memories of the OP zann consortium are still unfortunately vivid to me.
Would even like to see Zaarin for the Imps. Maybe Batch with his TIE phantoms?
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Could we get ground buildable tie fighters as a fast air unit for the empire and the rebels could gain rahm kota and his miltia
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Ah Kota! One of only three jedi i like and respect(obi wan and katarn being the other two)
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Ah Kota! One of only three jedi i like and respect(obi wan and katarn being the other two)
Was there ever a established fate for Kota because presumably he must have died prior to Luke declaring himself Jedi otherwise i imagine the order would be millitant
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Black Sun would be interesting but how would you go about it? Memories of the OP zann consortium are still unfortunately vivid to me.
Would even like to see Zaarin for the Imps. Maybe Batch with his TIE phantoms?
What resources did Xizor actually have? I do feel like he ought to make an appearance, though, and not just because I like him and the Falleen.
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What resources did Xizor actually have? I do feel like he ought to make an appearance, though, and not just because I like him and the Falleen.
He did have his own private navy and paramilitary
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empire- admiral needa , captain palleon, the emperor ,darth vader of course, veers , to many more to say really
rebellion -.....take your pick there is sooo many just so long as you either beef up the mc80 or get rid of it tell me one time you see that ship in 4 ,5 or 6 .... and anyway its a shitty ship 2 torbo lasers and 2 ion cannons against a star destroyer it sucks
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Needa was a captain
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EDIT: If memory serves Just prior to the Battle of Endor wasn't the empire supposed to have around 25,000 Imperial II star destroyers? Not sure I would call that super rare.
To my knowledge, that number comes from Zahn's Hand of Thrawn duology, and I don't recall Zahn ever distinguishing between ISDs and ISD2s. The second book of the duology includes the Errant Venture, which was an ISD2, but despite re-reading Vision of the Future fairly recently I honestly can't recall Zahn actually calling it one, so I'd assume that he's combining ISD1s and 2s for the number (and checking my copy of Specter of the Past, which of course I had to go find so I could make sure I wasn't about to make an idiot of myself, no actual timepoint for the number is given: "Two hundred Star Destroyers remaining from a Fleet that had once included over twenty-five thousand of them." is the sentence, with no contextual time reference around it). According to Wookiepedia, the ISD2s only started being introduced after the Battle of Yavin, so I'd assume that for the next few years at least they'd be relatively rare - though it does note that they were specifically used at Hoth and Endor, which would make sense as the Empire would likely want to use their best, newest ships where combat was most likely.
The ISD1, by comparison, was introduced near the end of the Clone Wars, and so had been in production for nearly two decades before Yavin.
Edit: As an additional datapoint, despite the Thrawn Trilogy, HoT duology, and Choices of One all giving it a prominent role, I can't recall Zahn ever calling the Chimaera an ISD2 either despite it generally being considered one (not going to go hunting, but I could swear I remember an NJO or Legacy book refers to it as one, and Wookiepedia certainly does).
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Zahn i think has the isd mk I and II as imperial star destroyer since the mk II was first introduced as such in the x wing novels. They would also still technically be the same class of destroyer with the II just being an upgraded version
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The argument could be made that Victory-, Tector-, and Venator-class ships should be counted under that number also, given that Zahn just says "Star Destroyers" and not "Imperial Star Destroyers". I suspect, however, that it should really refer just to the Imp and Imp-2 - the latter's just an upgraded variant of the former, whereas Zahn distinguishes Imperials from Victories in the Thrawn trilogy and at the time of his writing neither Tectors nor Venators had been confirmed as existing ship designs.
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Indeed
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Needa was a captain
hmm your right my mistake ...for the rebels try a liberator ship it was in rebellion game and around that era
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hmm your right my mistake ...for the rebels try a liberator ship it was in rebellion game and around that era
No worries.
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The argument could be made that Victory-, Tector-, and Venator-class ships should be counted under that number also, given that Zahn just says "Star Destroyers" and not "Imperial Star Destroyers". I suspect, however, that it should really refer just to the Imp and Imp-2 - the latter's just an upgraded variant of the former, whereas Zahn distinguishes Imperials from Victories in the Thrawn trilogy and at the time of his writing neither Tectors nor Venators had been confirmed as existing ship designs.
If you're counting ISD and ISD-II together it would actually make sense to include the Tector as well since it was again based off the same hull. Whereas the Victory and Venator classes are both far more distinct designs.
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Again he could have just mrant all varieties of star destroyers
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Praetor Class 1 as a Buildable Flaggship
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The Praetor-I has almost nothing known about it except for it being 4000 meters long and a strictly Republic ship, so there's no reason to include that over the Praetor-II which was specifically Imperial, if we were to include either (which I'm hesitant to do considering how outgunned the Rebels will already be)
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Perhaps the Corporate Sector Alliance as an added playable or minor faction? Wouldn't be too hard to add, they used a lot of Imperial and Clone Wars-era Republic and CIS tech they'd bought off the Empire like Lucrehulk-class Battleships?
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Perhaps the Corporate Sector Alliance as an added playable or minor faction? Wouldn't be too hard to add, they used a lot of Imperial and Clone Wars-era Republic and CIS tech they'd bought off the Empire like Lucrehulk-class Battleships?
So basically a version of the PA
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So basically a version of the PA
That is basically what it would amount to...
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Plus, the CSA rarely actually participates militarily on the galactic stage - they generally just sit there doing their own thing. Which makes sense, as they're a corporatocracy and care more about making money than political power or ideological agendas.
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Could just make them a reskinned Pentarstar Alignment with a few unique units, and well, they did have to deal with the Rebel Alliance a lot seeing as they were supporting the Imperials.
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As I recall the CSA was pretty much left to itself, save for when Zsinj took it over shortly before his own death, then it went back to it'd own autonomy.
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As I recall the CSA was pretty much left to itself, save for when Zsinj took it over shortly before his own death, then it went back to it'd own autonomy.
Yeah, Pally left them pretty much alone due to their support for him. I also don't remember the Alliance ever conflicting with them. I know the NR wasn't a fan of theirs, but don't remember the rebel scum ever actually giving them a hard time.
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Because they were basically the same as PA. They favored and supported Imp factions but were mostly neutral and didn't try and expand so they were left alone in turn
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Can the rebels get the t-1b tank
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Can the rebels get the t-1b tank
Yes please read the Manual or play the game. It's really annoying when people clog up the forums with questions like this.
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To be a little nicer, the T-1B does exist as a unit for the NR. It's unshielded, but has a flak pod in addition to its laser cannons.
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I would love to play fall of empire gc. 8=)
Empire heroes: ozzel, piett, thrawn, vader, palpy, paleon, needa, bevel lemelisk comes to mind.
Rebel heroes: akbar, mothma, leia, luke, han chewie, crix madine, carlist rieekan, lando, wedge.
Main factions: empire and rebels ocf maybe hutt cartel or black sun
Having pirate raid fleets in tactical battles would be awesome aswell.
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Imperial Units: AT-PT, TIE Crawler, Storm Commandos, Imperial Army and Navy Troopers?
Imperial Heroes: Piett, Pellaeon, Thrawn, Needa, Ysanne Isard, Baron Fel, Moff Jerjerrod, Wullf Yularen, Admiral Motti, High General Tagge, Veers, Captain Dorja.
Additional less likely: Cronal (Agent Blackhole), Ardus Kaine, Daala, Grand Admiral Nial Declann, Grand Admiral Osvald Teshik, Zsinj, Harrsk, Teradoc, Mara Jade.
Rebel Units: Species variant Rebel Troops, Rebel Spec Ops.
Rebel Heroes: Leia & 3PO, Luke & R2, Winter, Garm Bel Iblis, Rogue Squadron (Wedge leading), Borsk Fey'lya, Madine, Rieekan, Lando, Ackbar, Mon Mothma, General Salm (Y-Wing Squadron).
Really looking forward to this GC.
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I don't think I really want the Praetor in, since the Rebels will be outgunned enough as-is, and the Praetor is one of the most powerful units in the mod when used correctly even against Era 5 stuff, so yeah. Plus, it was barely ever used during the GCW outside of Shadow Hand. I feel similarly about the Tector, the only reason it really even exists is because of a 2 second shot of an ISD without a hangar. I love the ship in ICW, but I don't really feel like it would fit in very well in this time-frame.
Without the MC80B, I think the Rebels will be pretty screwed unless you add in something, like say, the Dauntless. You could also add in the MC80 Home One type, which would be fairly easy since it's already in the game, just not a a standard buildable ship. I know, I know, it's actually pretty weak for its size based on official stats, but you could always handwave it by giving it stronger shields or something to allow it to tank fire more effectively even if it can't hit very hard. Come to think of it, you could probably bump down the Liberty type to 3 pop. It would still be a thoroughly useless ship, but at least we wouldn't be pretending it's a capital ship anymore.
I'd like to see Mara Jade make an appearance as an imperial hero, maybe even with the hilarious and awesome bug of her having a ranged lightsaber still intact?
Also, if you do want to take a shot at including Black Sun, they could be a warlord type faction, or maybe have some raid fleets. I guess you could also make them playable, but we already have like 5 factions in the game anyway, even if one of them is ultimately really minor, so that might be pushing it, plus it'd probably be too much work. I know the ZC left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but a criminal faction isn't impossible to balance, I thought AotR did it pretty well with their Black Sun faction. They had corruption, and virtually limitless credits, but they balanced it out with it being hard to maintain corruption and giving them really crappy, old, black market units in space.
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I don't think I really want the Praetor in, since the Rebels will be outgunned enough as-is, and the Praetor is one of the most powerful units in the mod when used correctly even against Era 5 stuff, so yeah. Plus, it was barely ever used during the GCW outside of Shadow Hand. I feel similarly about the Tector, the only reason it really even exists is because of a 2 second shot of an ISD without a hangar. I love the ship in ICW, but I don't really feel like it would fit in very well in this time-frame.
Without the MC80B, I think the Rebels will be pretty screwed unless you add in something, like say, the Dauntless. You could also add in the MC80 Home One type, which would be fairly easy since it's already in the game, just not a a standard buildable ship. I know, I know, it's actually pretty weak for its size based on official stats, but you could always handwave it by giving it stronger shields or something to allow it to tank fire more effectively even if it can't hit very hard. Come to think of it, you could probably bump down the Liberty type to 3 pop. It would still be a thoroughly useless ship, but at least we wouldn't be pretending it's a capital ship anymore.
I'd like to see Mara Jade make an appearance as an imperial hero, maybe even with the hilarious and awesome bug of her having a ranged lightsaber still intact?
Also, if you do want to take a shot at including Black Sun, they could be a warlord type faction, or maybe have some raid fleets. I guess you could also make them playable, but we already have like 5 factions in the game anyway, even if one of them is ultimately really minor, so that might be pushing it, plus it'd probably be too much work. I know the ZC left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but a criminal faction isn't impossible to balance, I thought AotR did it pretty well with their Black Sun faction. They had corruption, and virtually limitless credits, but they balanced it out with it being hard to maintain corruption and giving them really crappy, old, black market units in space.
I agree with the Praetor, although I'm a big fan of the ship, it was really only used for a few high profile missions, so it makes sense that it shouldn't be in it.
As far as the Tector, I actually like the idea of it being used. I imagine it probably would have been more common in this timeframe. I actually like the idea of having the Tector instead of the ISD-II.
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I actually like the idea of having the Tector instead of the ISD-II.
I'd vote for that. Fits lore-wise, and would lessen the sting a bit for the rebels, who are already weaker in space.
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My concern was mostly with just how powerful the Tector actually is if used properly in ICW, although I suppose replacing the ISD-II with it might make it more acceptable.
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My concern was mostly with just how powerful the Tector actually is if used properly in ICW, although I suppose replacing the ISD-II with it might make it more acceptable.
Yeah, and even more than with the ISD, you're forced to surround the Tector with assistance or it will be absolutely mangled by Y-Wings.