Thrawn's Revenge

Ascendancy [SoaSE] => Ascendancy Discussion => Topic started by: Corey on January 11, 2014, 10:42:46 PM

Title: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Corey on January 11, 2014, 10:42:46 PM
Since their art assets are pretty much all finished, save for the World Devastator and Allegiance, we have started implementing the tech tree and abilities for Remnant ships. This is something we'd particularly like community input on, since there's a lot of slots we can fill and you guys can probably come up with a lot of ideas we wouldn't. Abilities in Sins are really flexible, so suggest whatever you want for any ship, and even if it doesn't work itself it might give us ideas for another ability. Try to keep it to something that makes sense for the faction philosophy and unit design.

For example, right now some of the abilities we have are the usual things like a superlaser for the Sovereign and Interdiction for the Immobilizer-418/Sovereign, but also things like an ability which passively increases allegiance on a planet when an ISD is around it, and ramming. Some Empire of the Hand ships also have microjumps.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 11, 2014, 11:04:09 PM
World Devastators?!!!
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: tlmiller on January 11, 2014, 11:06:18 PM
Where have you been?  They've said the whole time they wanted to implement the World Devastators.  Silencer-7 shall feed...
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 12, 2014, 06:44:37 PM
So, just wondering, do you want ability ideas for any ship on the many unit lists or just Caps?
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Corey on January 12, 2014, 06:52:07 PM
Any ship.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: exwarrior 2015 on January 12, 2014, 07:50:06 PM
i don't know if you just want ideas for the IR but i have a couple ideas for the rebels along with some for the IR.
1. For the mon cal cruisers  i was assuming the shield boost ability.
2. Another idea for the early mon cals could be the cluster bombs.
3. For either side what about a way to raise the fighter complement for corvettes like wraith squadron did when they were undercover with upgraded storage racks or replacing the escape pods or something in the Tec Tree.
4. Upgrade the Dreadnought for both sides to the Katana type.
That's all i can think of right now ill post whenever i can think of an idea.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Ghostmaster on January 12, 2014, 08:45:40 PM
I was thinking maybe the Remnant should have the ability to cloak one of their ships or maybe an area within a system.  As this was not widespread and could potentially unbalance the game it would have to be prohibitively expensive to research or activate this ability.

You could also make it so that they have the ability to recover lost imperial technology of some kind when they take back a world from an appropriate faction like the New Republic or the Warlords.   Again this would have to be balanced by making it so that this only occurs on certain specific worlds or has a low chance of actually occurring. 

Those are a few ideas I had, hopefully they help.  Keep up all your great work :)
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Revanchist on January 13, 2014, 02:19:58 AM
I would like to see Vic-1s have a Concussion Missile barrage ability or something to the like.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Settra on January 13, 2014, 05:37:16 AM
The ISDs could have some sort of allegiance booster, but it may make sense to have it function as a bit of a double edged sword, having the culture/allegiance maxed (or unable to be swayed, if possible), but it takes a hit to health/population (nothing like razing a city to inspire loyalty).
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Crisiss on January 13, 2014, 03:20:06 PM
Star Destroyers could get Intimidation: any ships of lesser class take a (?)% penalty to all stats while within X radius of the ship.

I'm sure ISDs ruined a lot of people's days in their lifespan.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Corey on January 15, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
i don't know if you just want ideas for the IR but i have a couple ideas for the rebels along with some for the IR.
We want them for everyone.


4. Upgrade the Dreadnought for both sides to the Katana type.
We have other plans for Katana Dreadnaughts; they were a specific thing, not an upgrade every Dreadnaught was given so it's going to be tied to specific events/abilities. Also, less important but the Remnant is the only side which gets Dreadnaughts at all.

Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: tlmiller on January 15, 2014, 05:05:37 PM
Is the NR getting both the Asasult Frigate Mark I and Mark II, or just the Mark I?
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Corey on January 15, 2014, 05:14:36 PM
The Mk. II is both weird looking and unecessary. I really don't know why it exists, or what connection it actually has with the Dreadnaught and Assault Frigate.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: tlmiller on January 15, 2014, 07:21:23 PM
Mostly agreed, but I figured I'd ask anyway.  It does have vastly superior shielding to the Mark I making it useful in that 1 respect.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Crisiss on January 15, 2014, 09:17:42 PM
The Mk. II is both weird looking and unecessary. I really don't know why it exists, or what connection it actually has with the Dreadnaught and Assault Frigate.

It exists because Petroglyph didn't want to use the Dreadnaught-style looking one.

Agreed with miller though, shielding on the 1 has nothing on the 2

Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 15, 2014, 09:47:38 PM
I have a (mostly just for fun) idea. The ability to grab ships with a Tractor beam and smash them into other ships. I just want to slam, welcome to the space jam. I guess it would be pretty similar to ramming, minus the risk of damaging your own ship. Grab that Nebulon-B and smack it right into that Corona!
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Kalo on January 16, 2014, 09:19:36 AM
I have a (mostly just for fun) idea. The ability to grab ships with a Tractor beam and smash them into other ships. I just want to slam, welcome to the space jam. I guess it would be pretty similar to ramming, minus the risk of damaging your own ship. Grab that Nebulon-B and smack it right into that Corona!

It might be pretty interesting to have a tractor beam that obviously pulls ships to the origin point, and if anythings along the line along the way it takes damage. I actually like this skill idea quite a bit. Not sure if it's possible though.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 16, 2014, 01:27:04 PM
I don't really know much about modding Sins, but maybe a (very) modified version of the maw ability (or something similar) would give a targetable or localized pulling effect? Then maybe give ships that are grabbed an AoE continunous damage effect corresponding to ship size or just a default size? That could be one way to do it, but chances are I'm totally wrong/thinking in the wrong direction.
Like I said, I don't know much about modding Sins so my idea there could be the worst. Ever.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Crisiss on January 16, 2014, 03:30:38 PM
Another one, maybe Interdictors can slow the speed at which phase jumps are made since stopping it completely would be OP.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: tlmiller on January 16, 2014, 04:20:00 PM
But that's why Interdictors were always so expensive, and compared to other units their side, so weak.  Yes, their special ability is overpowered, but they're also insanely expensive and mostly a "1 trick pony" that's easily defeated.

NOT having them be able to prevent it entirely makes it, IMO, kinda useless to have interdictors since that's the whole point of them.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 16, 2014, 05:57:59 PM
I dunno, -400% phase jump speed is kinda huge and would be practically the same effect. No ships getting out safely with that kind of penalty.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Waffle Wagon on January 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
That's such a big debuff that you might as well just have the gravity wells stop the jumps like they're supposed too. Seems like it would be simpler.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Crisiss on January 16, 2014, 09:43:35 PM
But that's why Interdictors were always so expensive, and compared to other units their side, so weak.  Yes, their special ability is overpowered, but they're also insanely expensive and mostly a "1 trick pony" that's easily defeated.

NOT having them be able to prevent it entirely makes it, IMO, kinda useless to have interdictors since that's the whole point of them.

No, I was speaking as a passive ability that actually slows the speed at which they move through the star lane from system to system. As in, any ships incoming to the gravity well get a dramatic speed reduction and ships leaving can't get into phase space.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 16, 2014, 10:25:24 PM
I'm fairly sure the game doesn't allow preventing ships from jumping. Therefore, massive penalty. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Rovert10 on January 16, 2014, 10:32:44 PM
I'm fairly sure the game doesn't allow preventing ships from jumping. Therefore, massive penalty. I could be wrong though.
What are you trying to do?
It's very much possible to disable jumps however the AI tends to act really derpy and for some reason just doesn't understand the notion. AI will have a tendency for ships to just sit there attempting to jump even though you've disabled them from doing so.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Rovert10 on January 17, 2014, 01:15:10 AM
A few generic ideas.

1. Focus Fire: Increase damage dealt to target
2. Target Vital Systems: Debuff to target
3. Fire at Will: Ship fires off a powerful volley heavily damaging the targeted ship, however any ships within the line of fire take damage as well.
4. Something akin to "Heavy Strike Craft" to complement the NR's more strikecraft centric doctrines.
5. Attach Probe: Extension of the original probe ability to any ship or planet. Most likely an EoTH ability on scout ships perhaps.
6. NR Capital Ship - Increase Culture Spread at the current planet
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 17, 2014, 10:03:24 PM
Where have you been?  They've said the whole time they wanted to implement the World Devastators.  Silencer-7 shall feed...

Om nom nom...planets
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Kalo on January 17, 2014, 11:01:24 PM
I'd really like more abilities that require a bit more foresight before you use them. With things like the Galaxy Gun in our Mod the whole reason you build it is because they might have a Planet powerhouse you dread trying to take. Things like that sound more interesting to me personally.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Revanchist on January 18, 2014, 01:09:24 AM
For the MTC I would like to see Mission Module abilities. These could only be activated while in friendly space and would remain activated until another is chosen. Each could grant certain abilities to the ship itself, making it the all-purpose workhorse it truly was meant to be.

As for the NR, maybe one of their corvettes could have an Intercept Convoy ability, where instead of destroying enemy trade ships they steal their cargo instead (while it sounds more like a Rebel idea, it could work for an early game NR).
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: tlmiller on January 18, 2014, 11:17:44 AM
For the MTC I would like to see Mission Module abilities. These could only be activated while in friendly space and would remain activated until another is chosen. Each could grant certain abilities to the ship itself, making it the all-purpose workhorse it truly was meant to be.



Oh, I really like that idea!!
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 18, 2014, 06:28:42 PM
I'm fairly sure the game doesn't allow preventing ships from jumping. Therefore, massive penalty. I could be wrong though.

Yeah, I messed up big there. I was thinking one thing, writing another thing based on another other thing, and generally confusing myself. It's pulling things out of a jump the game wont let you do. I think.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Lavo on January 19, 2014, 01:11:54 AM
The Mk. II is both weird looking and unecessary. I really don't know why it exists, or what connection it actually has with the Dreadnaught and Assault Frigate.
I like to think it's made from the remains of other ships, and was named the Assault Frigate Mk. II to throw off Imperial intelligence, who wanted to capture the Mk. I.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Corey on January 19, 2014, 03:14:49 PM
For the MTC I would like to see Mission Module abilities. These could only be activated while in friendly space and would remain activated until another is chosen. Each could grant certain abilities to the ship itself, making it the all-purpose workhorse it truly was meant to be.

I'd like this, provided we could think of useful functions for it.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: tlmiller on January 19, 2014, 03:35:10 PM
Well, a few functions would be a combat module, giving it heavy weapons to allow it to stand toe to to with ships such as Victories.  An Assault module, allowing it to bombard and colonize planets.  Obviously the one that was used for ICW, the carrier module, giving it a good fighter/bomber complement.  Maybe a comm module, allowing it to essentially act as a command and control ship, thus giving some bonus to all ships in the same gravity well as it?  Those are things I can think of all the top of my head.  Obviously I've never modded Sins so have absolutely no clue how feasable these are.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Lavo on January 19, 2014, 06:13:22 PM
All of those could work. The Assault module wouldn't work well, mainly due to how finicky planet bombing is is in Sins. Of course, there will have to be a specific module picked for the AI to use every time, because it can't pick and choose.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Desih on January 19, 2014, 08:28:34 PM
I feel like the MTC could be a great support ship. Instead of giving it direct combat modules, give it different support modules.
It could start of as a base module (Carrier maybe.) and from there the player has the option of changing it into various different support ships. Making it so you can only change modules while in friendly space station controlled space is a good idea, but maybe put a resource cost (don't know if you can do that in sins) on changing into different modules, or a large cooldown.

As for different module ideas, maybe use some of the lore one's alongside adding a few of your own?
An Inquisition module could spread influence, rally/inspire fear in nearby ships, maybe give it sabotage like abilities to use against enemy planets and buildings?
Maybe combine the Observation and Survey module, allowing the MTC to colonize planets and act as a scout?
The rescue module could be geared more towards a repair/healer role (although that might be a bit op. Maybe give it temporary buff/debuff? Ship gets repaired a bit, but gets reduced regen or speed, etc.)
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Revanchist on January 20, 2014, 10:13:12 PM
Here's what I would say about which modules there should be:

Observation/Survey: the standard version available to the player, possibly revealing the Gravity Well in each planet it has been in for some time after it has left (to simulate the Probe Droids).

Carrier/Command: functions as a fleet carrier with some fleet-wide buffs/debuffs or something to the like.

Inquisition: Spreads culture quickly, especially on already loyal worlds, has various sabotage abilities for structures and planets, and maybe planetary bombardment.

Hospital/Rescue: provides planetary population buffs and an increased population regen time, gives all friendly nearby units a health buff.

For the Interdictor, maybe have Imperial units be able to jump directly to the Interdictor's location (like the Phase Space Stabilizers), like what Thrawn did during his campaign.
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: kucsidave on March 13, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
I just got the idea form the Star Wars IV.
An ability for larger ships to board smaller vessels
Can be usefull to cap enemy ships :)
Title: Re: Unit Ability Discussion
Post by: Lord Xizer on March 13, 2014, 08:11:25 PM
More WTB!(TIE fighter lingo for We Both Die) KAMIKAZE!!!