Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Meyer on August 26, 2007, 08:22:49 AM
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So which one would win is the question. My answer is: Executor-class SSD
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The Executor probalby would win, but i like the Viscount better.
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well this isn't about liking better-topic. and there isn't even much info about viscount so I can't really say nothing about it.
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The Excecutor would win. It is also one of my favorites. :police:
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The Viscount is one of mine.
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Executor is great looking ship. and it beats viscount everday with it's larger number of starfighters.
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Executer had more weapons, but the Viscount had more fighters. But since the Executer had so many more weapons, it would win.
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Executor could carry thousands of fighters in it's hangars. Viscount could never match those numbers.
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I now quote wikipedia
"Although slightly shorter in length than the Executor-class, the superior construction skills of the Mon Calamari enabled the vessel to carry more starfighters, as well as having a substantially smaller crew"
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Quote from wookiepedia:
"Complement Starfighters (3 wings)
Standard complement:
T-65A3 X-wing starfighters (60)
T-65XJ X-wing starfighters (12)
RZ-1 A-wing interceptors (48)
E-wing escort starfighters (48)
B-wing starfighters or K-wing assault starfighters (48)
Additional support vessels:
Shuttles (dozens)
Troop transports (dozens)
Dropships (dozens)
Landing barges (dozens)"
another quote from wookiepedia:
"A minimum of 144 starfighters were carried onboard Executor-class vessels; but the massive hangar could hold thousands. In addition to fighters, the Executor-class also carried a large number of landing craft, dropships, ground armor and two prefabricated garrison bases."
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But you also just quoted only the standard complement of a Viscount, it might also have been able to thousands as well
And according to wookiepedia the armaments of both ships were almost exactly the same, the difference was a Viscount had 50 more ion cannons and an Executor had 50 more concussion tubes
And i have to believe a Viscounts shields were far superior to an Executors
So i say Viscount
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I think that the standard complement in viscount doesn't refer to numbers but what number of what TYPE of an fighter it carries. and 50 concussion tubes is a lot of firepower.
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I still say Executer.
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No, that standard complement shows it has atleast all of those mentioned, not neccessarily the maximum
And 50 concussion missles dont do any good if the 50 ion cannons on a Viscount has already decimated your shields and you're takin damage
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but Executor had very good shields. those fifty ion cannons wouldn't bring it's weapon systems and shields down in a few minutes. And it says that viscount holds "only" hundreds of fighters at maximum capacity.
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But you have to believe that a Mon Cal star dreadnaught had to have far superior shields to the executor
And the viscount would be able to more easily manuever about the Executor, allowing more Viscount guns to be used than the Executors
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I believe that Executor had better shields than Viscount. And I'm not so sure thath viscount would be just flying circles around Executor.
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Come on, a Mon Cal vs Imperial, and you're saying the imperial had better shields? thats just ridiculous
And i didnt say fly circles, but th Viscount is smaller and probably more manueverable
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smaller doesn't meant it is more manueverable. And I know that moncal shields were good. but it was concluded in one topic that it was only because they overlapped their shields. And Executor shields were very strong.
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Just take past match-ups
MC-80 vs ISD, the MC 80 was better shielded
VIscount vs Exec, gotta say the Viscount would be much better shielded
And overlapping or not, it still made for more powerful shields
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but ship with better shields doesn't always win. Executor was way better shielded than MC-80 and still they penetrated it's shields.
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SO if an MC-80 with less shields and firepower could take out the Exec's shields, then couldnt a ship with almost identical firepower and, we will say for now, the same shielding power easily?
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Yes, Meyer, you kind of just lost the argument for yourself.
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The movies aren't always very accurate to what actually would have happened, it's all for the plot.
The shield strength was probably very close, but the Viscount would take down the Executor's shields before the Viscount's went down due to redundancy and the 50 extra ion cannons. 50 extra conc missile launchers wouldn't be all that great against capital ships, they had limited loads of conc missiles, and if you look at the Battle of Coruscant, you can see just how much damage one missile can do to a Venator's hull.
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and in the movie Executor went down because a lucky pilot was able to steer his fighter right in the Executors bridge. if that hadn't happened I think they would have had much more fighting to do.
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Yeah but the shields were already down, and the entire rebel fleet was shootin at the Executor, it wouldn't have stayed combat effective for all that much more
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and in the movie Executor went down because a lucky pilot was able to steer his fighter right in the Executors bridge. if that hadn't happened I think they would have had much more fighting to do.
Im not sure the pilot would agree that he/she was lucky :-\
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well let's say rebels were lucky that the pilot rammed the bridge. and Executor was nowhere near being destroyed.
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Back to Executor vs Viscount, not Executor that died at Endor
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to be honest it depends on the pilots and captains of the ships
but remember imp pilots were just as good as rebel pilots thier ships just wernt as good
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good point you make, Kratas. of course Executor wins Viscount if the captain and the crew of the viscount are rookies and imperial crew are veterans commanded by good captain. and it goes vice versa.
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well that wasnt quite what i meant
you got the captain bit right but in terms of oilots i meant that imp pilots can be just as good as rebel pilots
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ah. I think some imp pilots were way better than rebel pilots. rebels were lucky to have shields. How did Emperor even think he could stop the YV with ships that don't have shilelds.
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Shields really didn't help at first against the YV.
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ah. I think some imp pilots were way better than rebel pilots. rebels were lucky to have shields. How did Emperor even think he could stop the YV with ships that don't have shilelds.
By sheer number probably.
But that's off topic..
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If the crews were the same the Excecutor would win.
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Scarecrow you have changed my mine.
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I just dont see the big advantgae the Executor has, the only advantage it may have at all is fighters only because we dont know the Viscounts fighter capacity
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and that Executor had better shields. and would propably have a better trained and motivated crew. propably even more experienced one.
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What makes you think Executor has better shields, i want one good reason to support that
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well the fact that imperial shields were good and though. And how do you support your idea that viscount has better shields.
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Sure Imperial shields were strong, im not saying they're are weak, but when comparing every other moncal ship to its imperial counterpart, the moncal shields are always better
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and would propably have a better trained and motivated crew. propably even more experienced one.
Better trained, quite probably, more experienced, maybe. But i always feel that the Rebels were more motivated than the Imperials.
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Sure Imperial shields were strong, im not saying they're are weak, but when comparing every other moncal ship to its imperial counterpart, the moncal shields are always better
if one moncal ship class has better shields it doesn't mean that all of them have better shields than imperial ships. and it is also said that ISDs armament was much better than that of an moncal cruisers. so I claim that Executor-class also has much better weaponary than viscount.
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You cant say its better, we know the armament of both, the only difference is the 50 missle tubes of the SSD and the 50 ions of the Viscount
And its not just one ship, every Moncal ship has better shielding than the imperial counterpart, why would the most powerful ship ever built by the MonCal be any different?
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money. they had to get something weak. and maybe imperial ships had better turbolasers than moncal ships.
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I doubt they would have gotten low quality because of lack of funds
And the guns of the two ships were different for sure, but i doubt the difference in power was enough to have an impact
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point taken. but that moncal shield was achieved by overlapping many weak shields together to achieve one strong. those shields weren't so much better than their imperial counterparts if they were better at all.
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But we know they do make a much more effective system, and overlapping or not, it doesnt matter, it still worked better
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but still ISD would beat moncal cruiser on ship-to-ship battle? I think that proves that those "amazing and very good moncal shields" weren't so good afterall.
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Only because an ISD had the better armament, and in the Viscount vs Executor battle, both their armaments would be the same
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well 50 more missile launchers are much more effective than an 50 more ion cannons.
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Not neccessarily, the missle tubes had limited shots, and the ion cannons would do better against the shields of a capitol cruiser
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well ISDII could stay operational after full barrage of Executors ion cannons and Executor had stronger shields so it would surely stay operational long enough to destroy that viscount after it had been shot by it's ion cannons. and those 50 missiletubes has a load of 30 missiles each. that is 1500 missiles that were meant to anti-capital ship duty.
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That only works if the Viscounts shields go down first, which is highly unlikely
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No one is ever going to win this argument unless there is clear proof. That will probably have to wait for R2. Then we can have a single executer cs a single viscount with all of their fighters. Until then, no one is going to convince anyone else.
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I wouldnt take that as proof, neither would anyone else i doubt, games are to far from actual canon
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That only works if the Viscounts shields go down first, which is highly unlikely
Why wouldn't the missiles work?
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It doesnt really matter any way, 50 missle tubes or 50 ion cannons isnt going to make that big a difference in the fight, both armaments are way too close to really matter
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It seems that viscounts armament is copied from Executor. just added some ion cannons and removed fed conc.launchers.
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persides its the tactics that count
like earlier my lvl2 space station 1 dreadnaught 1 vsd and a few e wing squadrons and 2 tartons were attacked by 1 agressor 1 keldabe 5 of those those things with a pair of mass drivers each and 10 starviper squadrons i lost a 2 tie fighter squadrons and 1 e wing squadrons
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But you cant really be too tactical when you are talking about 2 ships each over 15kms long fighting each other
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sure can how you deploy your fighters where you attack first personally i like to take out engines after 5 minutes so i can fall back gaather my troops and then surround them and go in for the kill meanwhile they wont of moved from where i took out the engines
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Fighters shouldn't be taken into avccount in a battle like this. Just a straight up broadside.
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And you cant really 'surround' a ship of this size with fighters
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still counts as surrounding id send in the bomber s in hit and runs and then send in the executor when the shield generator and hangaers are down
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I think your thinking of the two facing in-game, we were talking about in the star wars universe
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i still dont see why my tactics would fail
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Because EaW grossly overexagerates the effectiveness of bombers.
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Yeah, that whole bomber through shields thing is ridiculous
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oh yeah but enough proton torpedo's say 4 can take out the shields and and destroy the big bubble things on a devastator if hit in the wrong place
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What?
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Hell no.
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it was rogue squadron that did it in the comic i read
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what is a devastator?
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its like a star destroyer with those interdictor things on
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To get to those things you'd need to get through the shields first.
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which you can't do by a few bombs.
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all the proton torpedo's were targetting the same spot
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but still you can't knock a shield down with four proton torpedoes.
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did i mention this is rogue squadron im alkin about any way
TOPIC
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how does the fact that you are talking about RS change the facts?
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they are skilled
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But their torpedoes are just like everyone elses, but back to topic
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I'm sure that 1500 concussion missiles would break through viscounts shields.
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id of thought so goodnight im going to bed commander kratas signing out ;)
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And so could the 6000 on the Viscount, im still saying that the armaments are just too close to matter, the differences dont mean much
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what 6000 on viscount?
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The viscount has 200 concussion tubes
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and Executor had 250. 250 times 30 is 7500. Where the hell did I get that 1500 I don't know. well this changes this a bit.
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You got 1500 because thats the difference between the amount of concussion missles the 2 ships has
And it doesnt change a thing, the armaments are too similar to matter
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as I said, viscounts armament is copied from the Executor.
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what?
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the viscounts armament is almost identical to the armament of the Executor. only change is that Executor has 250 conc.launchers and viscount has 200. and viscount has fifty more ion cannons.
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how are the guns on a Viscount arranged? how far apart would they start?
in a battle like this the first salvos are going to be from guns that can target forward, after they close range they'll most likely cut a hard 90 and start exchanging broadsides.
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We dont really know
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yep. there is very little info about viscount. I for one would like to know where it is mentioned what kind of an weaponary it has.
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Its probably said in a book that it has the same armament as an Executor, except for the slight variation, thats probably why they are the same
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I for one think that details about the hull and power output are very important, because it matters how much power you can divert to weapons and shields. Unfortunately there is no info on the viscount's hull and power output.
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I quote The essential guide to vehicles and vessles (Book published in '96) article on MC80 Cruisers in saying, "Mon Cal ships have unusually powerful shields - extra shield redundancies allow the Mon Cals to quickly replace damaged shield arrays even while in combat, and this made it much more difficult for imperial guns to wear down a Star Cruiser's defenses."
So the Viscount has better shields. It gets my vote.
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by cannon Viscount
ISD vs Mc-80
by cannon ISD
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Got to go with the SSD it has a massive amount of fire power and the ships but the shelds would be a bit weaker but I am sure the cannons of the SSD would crush it.
Joe
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ok Executor vs Viscount, a regular star destroyer has about twenty ion cannons and sixty turbolasers so that means the executor will have about hmm maybe 450-500 turbolasers (guess) and maybe 100-150 ion cannons(guess) along with 50 concussion missle launchers, not only that but the hangar can carry thousands of star fighters, i'd have to give my vote to the executor, the only reason the executor on endor died was because: two a-wings got a few lucky shots at there bridge deflector shield generator, then green leader crashed into the bridge, that could happen to any capital ship, and i'd have to say, its a very sad way to die, so yeah executor here