Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Corey on February 12, 2012, 04:21:54 AM
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For 2.0, we're hoping to expand a bit on the heroes available to the Empire so they aren't as completely outnumbered in that way. Thrawn has a pretty varied and complete set, but the other eras could use some expansion, so we want your suggestions on who they could use. Preferably a bit more than a name (include suggested function/ship/etc)
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For Isard I'll once again suggest Delak Krennel with the Reckoning. He did work for her, at least for a while. Also for Isard I'm thinking Kirtan Loor and Evir Derricote Loor could be a spy and Derricote could give some defensive bonuses to units under his command.
For Palpatine commander Titus Klev could be a nice addition without the Wolrd Devastator of course. And maybe some of the Deep Core warlords like Harrsk, Teradoc and Delvardus. They could have their own star destroyers and also some minor bonus to their forces. Ardus Kaine could also be added and would probalbly be quick to add as he is already in the mod but that would give the Imps another supership and I think the Eclipse is enough for one era.
Daala reign was so short that it's hard to come up with anything.
For Pellaeon how about some of those Star Destroyer commanders that were sent to Bothawui: Nalgol, Trazzen and Argona with their own SDs. Dorja could also be used again. Hestiv and Sutt Ramic, both High Generals, could be used as a land commanders. Also the Vengeance group could be used as saboteurs and spies. And mayde the Moff Council to give some discounts on the planet they're on.
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I agree. Commando heroes would be nice.
Isard era: Krennal with Reckoning with a fleet commander bonus, Kirtan loor as a spy(with the ability to reveal enemy units in all the systems immediately surrounding him) Evir Derricote with the ability that any planet he's on if invaded enemy units take auto damage due to his viral specs)
Palpatine era: Harrsk(with an ISDII with proton beam and concentrate firepower abilities) Teradoc(with the 13X VSD with it's abilities) Delvardus with Knigh Hammer(yes I know it's a super ship but it kind of goes with that particular GCs theme I mean all of palps strategy was pretty much super weapons.) with a command bonus and the Dark Side Elite(I know force users and such but again that was something kind of specific to that era.
Pellaeon era: Navett( commando hero undetectable and can move among enemy systems and capable of sabotage, blowing up buildings and causing general mayhem similar to the Defilers in the original FoC) this could really help the IR as they are literally at deaths door in that scenario. Capt. Nalgol with a cloak for his destroyer(balanced by zero line of sight when engaged)
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Suggestion for the Pellaeon Era:
- Turr Phennir and the 181st, but in TIE Defenders (Phennir flew one at Adumar, which fits).
- Teren Rogriss in the Agonizer (ISD Mk 1?)
- Also perhaps you could give Pellaeon himself the Reaper? I hate SSDs but people seem to like them...
- You have Tierce in the Relentless, but what about Disra? Perhaps he could offer a 10% cost reduction, but with no combat bonus?
EDIT: Isard Era:
- Captain Joak Drysso and the Virulence (ISD Mk II)
- Ait Convarion and the Corruptor (Vic Deuce)
- Kirtan Loor (Galactic Spy)
- Evir Derricote in a Chariot LAV with a land combat bonus.
- Might I also suggest you get rid of Isard's space combat bonus? She's never displayed command skills and was an admiral only in name really...
EDIT: Emperor Reborn Era:
- Jeng Droga, Emperor's Hand, similar powers to Mara Jade but wielding two lightsabers?
- This will probably get me flamed, but Supreme Commander Luke Skywalker (in an ISK Mk II in space/himself on land)
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Typed a response to almost every hero, then firefox crashed. Let's try this again a different way:
Krennal: We'd like him back in, he'll probably make it. He sort of disappeared before, I don't actually remember cutting him.
Loor: Problem with him is making him useful for a faction that already has probe droids with a more comprehensive ability.
Derricote: Chemical weapons engineer, not really a commander. Kind of pointless in a game like EaW.
Nalgol, Trazzen, Argona, Hestiv, Ramic, Harrsk, Teradoc, etc: Problem with them is we're running low on Imperial nobody pictures to use as icons so we have to use them sparingly, and unlike what Codeuser did with Isard we don't have the time or resources to make individual portraits for a bunch of people (he actually drew Isard's icon in photoshop on his own).
Navett: I'd like to do him as well, as a kind of Han type hero.
Phennir in TIE Defenders: They only used TIE Defenders once from what I've seen, and only four of them, during a battle the timeline doesn't technically cover.
Rogriss for Pellaeon: Between where we have Palpatine ending and Daala starting, Rogriss defected and become defense minister on Adumar, actually fighting directly against Pellaeon.
Reaper: I don't like SSDs either, and this one got destroyed in 13ABY, so Pellaeon was back into Chimaera for the time covered by the mod.
Ait Convarion: I'd like to put him in if we can get an icon.
Droga: Problem for him is modeling, skinning and animating more infantry.
Luke: From my limited understanding of Dark Empire, Luke was trying to sabotage the Empire. That's why we skipped him and just basically give the Supreme Commander post to Sedriss in that era.
As far as Isard's command bonus goes, it's more based on morale bonus as leader than command ability. OFf the top of my head, she gives the weakest bonus of any commander-type hero in the mod.
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Corey I can get portraits of the Imperial Leaders. Harrsk, Teradoc, Delvardus, and Convarion will be no problem at all.
How soon would you need them and in what detail? That's all I need to know and it will be done.
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Derricote: Chemical weapons engineer, not really a commander. Kind of pointless in a game like EaW.
Rogriss for Pellaeon: Between where we have Palpatine ending and Daala starting, Rogriss defected and become defense minister on Adumar, actually fighting directly against Pellaeon.
Reaper: I don't like SSDs either, and this one got destroyed in 13ABY, so Pellaeon was back into Chimaera for the time covered by the mod.
Actually I'm a little confused as to when exactly the Pellaeon era covers. Doesn't it begin as soon as Dalla resigns as supreme commander and hands it over to him? That would be right at the end of 12 ABY. If that's the case, then the mission to Adumar falls under his era...same for the Reaper still surviving.
I'm not trying to launch into a canon argument here, just trying to find ways to get Pellaeon some help! As it stands, the Tector isn't enough, the IR is always getting trashed in the Camaas Crisis GC.
As for Derricote, he held the rank of General, and he commanded the defense of Borleias, successfully I might add. Forget the Krytos virus thing, that's not really something that could add a lot to the game as it stands.
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IMHO Pellaeon should also be added to Thrawn, but not necessarily to Emperor Reborn.
For Daala's era: maybe Colonel Cronus?
For Isard's Era: I'd like to see Sate Pestage, mostly with his price-reduction ability.
Also Delak Krennel with Reckoning - the Imperial Remnant really lacks good admirals, especially when facing the band of EotH fleet.
For Isard's Era and Emperor Reborn - Ardus Kaine with Reaper.
BTW: with Kaine's Reaper there coukld be made a limit of only 2 Executors buildable.
For Isard's Era:
general Paltr Carvin (she needs also someone on the ground...)
For Pellaeon era:
Vilim Disra - some price-reduction capability?
Dorja - back with Relentless ISD
To discuss:
Grand Admiral Josef Grunger with Aggressor SSD
Grand Admiral Danetta Pitta (the only model of Torpedo Sphere is in Alliance mod by Nomada Firefox), though he may command something else - and watch the sky over Correllia
General Redd Wessel
General Immodet (IMHO better choice, for Daala's era?)
Cronal "Blackhole" vel "Sithspawn" - possibly a warlord for Isard's era, but can be a commander during Emperor Reborn era.
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IMHO Pellaeon should also be added to Thrawn, but not necessarily to Emperor Reborn.
For Daala's era: maybe Colonel Cronus?
Both of these are already in 1.3. Its just in the Thrawn era Pellaeon is sharing Chimaera with Thrawn. ;)
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Actually I'm a little confused as to when exactly the Pellaeon era covers. Doesn't it begin as soon as Dalla resigns as supreme commander and hands it over to him? That would be right at the end of 12 ABY. If that's the case, then the mission to Adumar falls under his era...same for the Reaper still surviving.
I'm not trying to launch into a canon argument here, just trying to find ways to get Pellaeon some help! As it stands, the Tector isn't enough, the IR is always getting trashed in the Camaas Crisis GC.
Pellaeon was leader for 16 years, so rather than try to cover it all, it's currently limited to 19ABY but with some allowance for ships from up to the start of the Vong war (Bothan Assault Cruiser), so technically 19-25 ABY. If we were to drop that date back to 17 ABY we could cover the Final Push and put Daala back in as a hero for Pellaeon on the Scylla (once it's decided what "Imperial Frigate" actually means).
As for Derricote, he held the rank of General, and he commanded the defense of Borleias, successfully I might add. Forget the Krytos virus thing, that's not really something that could add a lot to the game as it stands.
Hm, never actually read those books, I always thought he was just the useless guy who made chemical weapons and ruined the 181st. So yeah, he is an option if we can get a suitable ship for him.
I'd like to see Sate Pestage, mostly with his price-reduction ability.
Pestage was Ciutric Hegemony, but unlike Krennal never actually worked with Isard.
Ardus Kaine with Reaper.
Until he joined much later, Kaine was running the Pentastar Alignment, he wasn't part of Isard's empire. He's in the mod as part of the Warlords, on Bastion.
Dorja - back with Relentless ISD
Relentless is under the command of the Sinister Triumvirate at this point.
Grand Admiral Josef Grunger with Aggressor SSD
Grand Admiral Danetta Pitta (the only model of Torpedo Sphere is in Alliance mod by Nomada Firefox), though he may command something else - and watch the sky over Correllia
Grunger and Pitta managed to kill each other off right before the mod starts. As far as models go, we considered making the Torpedo Sphere for Daala and Pellaeon but we really dislike the design.
General Immodet (IMHO better choice, for Daala's era?)
He died in 11 ABY, Daala takes over in 12 ABY. Him and Redd Wessel were really more when Carnor Jax was leading the Empire, which we don't cover.
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The X Wing novels are second only to Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books I think so I would recommend reading them. That aside you could actually do the viral thing for Derricote, you could have as a bonus for him that any planet he's on enemy infantry take auto damage(sort of like the fire damage on certain worlds) this would make him most useful in defense. Kirtan Loor could have terrorist abilities like when he was leading the Palpatine Counterrevolutionary Front(PCF) by being able to blow up buildings like the Defilers did in the vanilla FoC(could make him a bit like Han and Navett I suppose). Fliry Vorru could also be a useful hero by using the black market to sap credits from the NR(similar to the smuggler but much more effective.) he could pilot a Lambda shuttle(although a bit tougher than standard shuttles) in space. Erisi Dlarit might be a bit redundant as she already has Fel and the 181st...
For Palpatine's Era the Warlords Harrsk, Teradoc and Kaine I suppose with Teradoc giving a cost reduction in VSD construction, Harrsk in ISDs and Kaine giving a production speed bonus(no need to give him Reaper). I guess something to counter the Jedi of the NR other than palps and Sed I suppose...Kir kanos and Carnor Jax(the latter with Vader's abilities against vehicles and infantry)
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The X Wing novels are second only to Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books I think so I would recommend reading them.
Not only are they fantastic reads, they provide a lot of the defining canon that this mod is based upon. They also fill in a lot of the gap between the Battle of Endor and Thrawn's Campaign.
After Zahn, Aaron Allston and Michael Stackpole are my favorite EU writers. They do excellent jobs of characterization and space battle description.
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Until he joined much later, Kaine was running the Pentastar Alignment, he wasn't part of Isard's empire. He's in the mod as part of the Warlords, on Bastion.
So maybe it's possible to make him appear in Isard's command after the Bastion is captured? I.e. he is on Bastion as a Warlord, but if amn IR player captures Bastion and "kills" him in combat then Kaine and his SSD appears as IR hero.
Such a method (appearing heroes after a specific planet is captured) is used (with quite good effect IMHO) in Alliance mod.
BTW: Nomada Firefox has also developed an interesting method of "selling" the space structures (Golans, shipyards, asteroid mines etc.) - those that occupy the 2 free slots with Space Station ("Shipyard" in TR mod). It seems to llok like "selling" a structure is a "reverse" of building it - the player selects an existing structure from a row of "buildable space structures and units" and it begins to "build", and after short time when the strucutre is "built" it disappears.
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So maybe it's possible to make him appear in Isard's command after the Bastion is captured? I.e. he is on Bastion as a Warlord, but if amn IR player captures Bastion and "kills" him in combat then Kaine and his SSD appears as IR hero.
Such a method (appearing heroes after a specific planet is captured) is used (with quite good effect IMHO) in Alliance mod.
Thayt "method" is the exact same method we used for the planet capture bonuses, we just didn't use it for heroes because for most of them it makes no sense. Kaine was the leader of a completely distinct Imperial group until he joined of his own volition to other specific groups. He was not loyal to Isard in any way, so making it so that he joins the IR if you kill him makes as much sense as making him join the NR if they kill him.
BTW: Nomada Firefox has also developed an interesting method of "selling" the space structures (Golans, shipyards, asteroid mines etc.) - those that occupy the 2 free slots with Space Station ("Shipyard" in TR mod). It seems to llok like "selling" a structure is a "reverse" of building it - the player selects an existing structure from a row of "buildable space structures and units" and it begins to "build", and after short time when the strucutre is "built" it disappears.
We don't have the build bar space for that method, for one thing. I'm also aware of the filter system some mods use, but that's not compatable with the era system.
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1. Okay, no problem... but it's a pity that the Imperial Remnant lost so many interesting people only due to "warlordism" instead of turning them into "heroes of New Order" :(
2. Okay, understood - the Era system is quite nice feature... and if some solutions do not fit into it - well, the only thing that remains is to play different mods :laugh:
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I understand your feeling on the matter. The Warlords fascinate me too. Perhaps in the future there will be more options for them, Harrsk, Teradoc, Delvardus are in consideration for IR heroes for certain GC era perhaps Palps and possibly the Pentastar may become playable if there is enough popular demand and reason to do them I suppose.
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Well, Palpatine is already playable.
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Shouldn't Veers be in a Chariot command vehicle(as that was what he was in during his suicide charge)
For the Shadow hand Scenario I think adding the following as heroes would broaden the IRs hero rangeand give a bit more equality of number of heroes to the NRs hero glob.
Kaine(gives production speed bonus on any planet he's on of 25% less build time)
Delvardus(in Night Hammer and gives a damage bonus of 25% to Imperial units)
Teradoc(in 13X gives ability to build Crimson Command or 25% health bonus to VSDs)
Harrsk(in ISD with two abilities(all power to shields and all power to weapons with a 25% efficiency bonus for ISDs)
Carnor Jax(in space ISD Emperor's Revenge and on land with his vibroblade staff with the abilities of Vader, infantry repel and vehicle crush)
Kir Kanos(in space with a Scimitar fighter and on land as himself with his staff with the dash ability and the berserker ability Yoda has in vanilla FoC that slaughters all infantry immediately in range of his weapon)
that way the IR has 5 space heroes and 5 land heroes(The Emperor, Jax, and Kanos are both) and 1 support hero.
So you have a total of 10 heroes(though just giving the IR Kanos, Jax and Kaine might be a lighter but more effective choice for shadow hand with Delvardus, Harrsk and Teradoc being given to the Warlords minor faction with unique units for the eras the Warlords are in.)
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Carnor Jax does NOT fit into Shadow Hand (Palpatine reborn) era - it seems he acted AGAINST the Emperor. He might be during Daala's era or better within Warlords faction.
Kir Kanos... well, he may fit SH better, as he was then an active and trustworthy loyal member of Imperial Guard.
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How about Afsheen Makati for Isard?
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How about one of us go write a book with a bunch more officers in it so we can have material to use? :P
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How about one of us go write a book with a bunch more officers in it so we can have material to use? :P
Nah we should just have 3D special editions of old heroes...
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EDIT: Isard Era:
- Captain Joak Drysso and the Virulence (ISD Mk II)
- Ait Convarion and the Corruptor (Vic Deuce)
I like that idea - Isard is very short of any Fleet Commander, which may be quite disastrous for her forces when faced with EotH or New Republic admirals.
For Isard's Era I have maybe bettter proposal than Sate (traitor! 8) ) Pestage - the Imperial Advisor Ars Dangor, who cooperated with her, at least until re-emergence of Emperor Reborn:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ars_Dangor
Or Bregius Golthan, Imperial Advisor and comander:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bregius_Golthan
In fact, after some deeper in-thought for Isard's Era the following "pack" of heroes would be quite good and useful:
1. Isard herself - better organizer than commander, yet quite useful due to her Lusankya that can be a backbone of the initial IR fleet battlegroup.
2. Joak Drysso - fleet commander
3. Ait Convarion - fleet commander
=> both Flt Coms are very needed as the IR has virtually none of them at start, and they may be very useful... and Isard can't be everywhere; besides she is much more needed to reduce costs of prduction/construction.
4. Soontir Fel - he may be, though for me the "fighter squadron hero" is of rather negligible importance (for 34 weeks I have NOT used him even once).
5. Ars Dangor - organizer/administrator - may be used to reduce costs of construction/production by, let's say, 25% (as Sate Pestage in vanilla FoC)
6. Bregius Golthan - also organizer/administrator - with bonus similar to that of Dangor (or mabe reduced to 20% but with some small command skills of +5/10%?).
=> IMHO the IR at start requires desperately to cut costs of production, as good player (or at least me...) can live and win without Flt Comms, but CAN'T without ships! Nor defend his planets (especiialy main shipyards) without Golans and HVGuns.
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Why not have Dorja's Relentless in the Pellaeon era? Or whoever is commanding the ship. I don't see how it being under the command of the Sinister Triumvirate is relevant, considering Grodin Tierce, who is PART of the Sinister Triumvirate, is an available hero.
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Tierce is simply the icon being used, he represents the Triumvirate, which travels the Galaxy aboard Dorja's Relentless. It also makes sense that he is the land unit, since he's the only capable combatant.
So no it wouldn't make sense to add Dorja as a separate hero in this case. Nalgol, and the Tyrannic, on the other hand, might make sense.
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Basically what Yutpaeski said. We're not refusing to give somebody the Relentless because the Triumvirate had it and we don't like them, we're refusing to give Dorja the Relentless because the Sinister Triumvirate controlled it and it's already in the mod for the only militarily relevant part of that Triumvirate anyways.
It's exactly the same as the situation with Thrawn and Pellaeon when Thrawn has the Chimera. Yes Dorja/Pellaeon were on the ship with Thrawn/Tierce, but all of the gameplay-relevant stuff is coming from Thrawn and Tierce. Yes, Tierce was doing it through Flim but we decided to keep it simple instead of trying to explain why Thrawn's in the ship in space and yet there' a stormtrooper on ground since it's all technically 3 people in one via a truncated version of the entire plot of the Hand of Thrawn duology in the popup description.
Basically as far as the four of them go (Sinister Triumvirate and Dorja), Disra is the only one that would be considered on his own as a seperate entity, since he could actually do something, even if it's just provide a cost bonus or whatever. Flim without Tierce is pointless, and they chose the Relentless as their flagship, so Dorja gets superceded.
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Instead of Disra why not the Moff Council as a hero that gives cost reductions and boosts production?
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Tierce is simply the icon being used, he represents the Triumvirate, which travels the Galaxy aboard Dorja's Relentless. It also makes sense that he is the land unit, since he's the only capable combatant.
So no it wouldn't make sense to add Dorja as a separate hero in this case. Nalgol, and the Tyrannic, on the other hand, might make sense.
Oh, I never actually used him lol I always assumed he was just a ground unit. Also, I thought the Moff Council was disbanded when Daala killed them all? Or am I thinking of the warlords and the Moff Council is a seperate entity?
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You're thinking of the Deep Core Warlords the Moff Council was formed after Pellaeon consolidated the remaining Imperial fragments into the Imperial Remnamt(The True Empire as he called it)
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Okay I thought so. Hm well in that case the Moff Council sounds like a good idea.
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I like that idea - Isard is very short of any Fleet Commander, which may be quite disastrous for her forces when faced with EotH or New Republic admirals.
For Isard's Era I have maybe bettter proposal than Sate (traitor! 8) ) Pestage - the Imperial Advisor Ars Dangor, who cooperated with her, at least until re-emergence of Emperor Reborn:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ars_Dangor
Or Bregius Golthan, Imperial Advisor and comander:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bregius_Golthan
In fact, after some deeper in-thought for Isard's Era the following "pack" of heroes would be quite good and useful:
1. Isard herself - better organizer than commander, yet quite useful due to her Lusankya that can be a backbone of the initial IR fleet battlegroup.
2. Joak Drysso - fleet commander
3. Ait Convarion - fleet commander
=> both Flt Coms are very needed as the IR has virtually none of them at start, and they may be very useful... and Isard can't be everywhere; besides she is much more needed to reduce costs of prduction/construction.
4. Soontir Fel - he may be, though for me the "fighter squadron hero" is of rather negligible importance (for 34 weeks I have NOT used him even once).
5. Ars Dangor - organizer/administrator - may be used to reduce costs of construction/production by, let's say, 25% (as Sate Pestage in vanilla FoC)
6. Bregius Golthan - also organizer/administrator - with bonus similar to that of Dangor (or mabe reduced to 20% but with some small command skills of +5/10%?).
=> IMHO the IR at start requires desperately to cut costs of production, as good player (or at least me...) can live and win without Flt Comms, but CAN'T without ships! Nor defend his planets (especiialy main shipyards) without Golans and HVGuns.
Isard's getting her own price reduction bonus, adding two more heroes that just do that would just be a waste of hero slots and really unbalance it in the Empire's favour (Isard's currently at 10). Three price reduction heroes would be enough to basically camp one at each cap shipyard planet.