Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Corey on January 11, 2012, 02:43:23 AM
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Use this thread to discuss anything in the 1.3 beta that doesn't qualify as a bug. Anything you like, don't like, think should be changed for the full version, etc.
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I've been playing Art of War as the EtoH, and I noticed that you've changed a lot about the EtoH fleet...I agree with some of them but I think a couple could use some rethinking.
The increase in cost of the Ascendancy and the Phalanx are good choices, they were too cheap. But I don't know if I agree with also bumping both of their population numbers up. The Ascendancy can't go toe to toe with any of the Impstars (well, maybe with an ISD Mk 1 due to its fighter complement), and it doesn't have an ability like the Mon Cal cruisers. One bit though, the Scyan engineering company doesn't reduce the cost of either capital ship, which is unfortunate, as that planet is the only capital shipyard you own at first.
The above wouldn't be so bad but you've also bumped up the Chaf's and the Auriette's pop numbers. I think I can see what you guys are trying to do, to force more mixed fleet compositions (since you dropped the decimator and vigiliance corvettes down to 1 pop). The bumping up of the Chaf makes the Karieks more viable too.
I love the new abilities for the Decimator and warlord corvettes.
I also like the Mortar TAT, it's the toughest artillery unit yet. However the lack of an icon (I assume that's to be in the completed version) makes it tough sometimes to locate the unit when it's on a planet. The slot that holds the unit is simply blank, you have to remember that a Mortar TAT was there. The rocket troopers are much more useful in companies of 3, especially with tthe ability capture stuff.
I also like the reduction in population conveyed by each system.
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The increase in cost of the Ascendancy and the Phalanx are good choices, they were too cheap. But I don't know if I agree with also bumping both of their population numbers up. The Ascendancy can't go toe to toe with any of the Impstars (well, maybe with an ISD Mk 1 due to its fighter complement), and it doesn't have an ability like the Mon Cal cruisers. One bit though, the Scyan engineering company doesn't reduce the cost of either capital ship, which is unfortunate, as that planet is the only capital shipyard you own at first.
Just reduced the Au'riette, Ascendancy and Phalanx by 1 pop point, it'll be in the next patch. The Ascendancy was supposed to be included in Syca's bonus, I'll fix that.
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why not use a corellian interdictor, I know there are some other models other than the CC-7700
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So far, I'm loving it. If I find something odd, I'll edit my post.
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I'm assuming you wanted to allot Golans based on shipyard size, i.e. Golan IIs for heavy Frigate capable planets.
If that's the case, N'Zoth needs to be allowed access to Golan IIIs, and a few of the other EtoH planets need to be double checked as well. For instance, I think Schysol is only capable of Golan Is.
Also I just finished and enjoyed the GC Empires at War, played as the IR, but I think you need to allow a hyperspace lane between the EtoH and the IR at the beginning of the game, in addition to N'Zoth. Otherwise, if neither of those two sides take N'Zoth (and the AI doesn't seem inclined to do this now that you've vastly increased their fleet size), that warfront is never opened. I also think the EtoH could be given access to a 2nd capital shipyard planet to help balance out the fact that the IR right away can take Byss, Fondor, and Kuat with no opposition.
And this is an odd thing, I'll post it in the bug section but I think the Warlords faction has crazy fast super lightspeed travel. When playing against them as the EtoH, I can see that their fleets are traveling between systems in less than a second. Also you get practically no warning when they invade one of your systems as they just seem to appear in an instant.
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I'm assuming you wanted to allot Golans based on shipyard size, i.e. Golan IIs for heavy Frigate capable planets.
If that's the case, N'Zoth needs to be allowed access to Golan IIIs, and a few of the other EtoH planets need to be double checked as well. For instance, I think Schysol is only capable of Golan Is.
Golans and Shipyards are decided independently of each other. That's why you have some which can build high shipyard levels than Golans, and vice versa. For example, Coruscant and Bastion don't get level 3 shipyards, but they do get Golan III's.
Also I just finished and enjoyed the GC Empires at War, played as the IR, but I think you need to allow a hyperspace lane between the EtoH and the IR at the beginning of the game, in addition to N'Zoth. Otherwise, if neither of those two sides take N'Zoth (and the AI doesn't seem inclined to do this now that you've vastly increased their fleet size), that warfront is never opened. I also think the EtoH could be given access to a 2nd capital shipyard planet to help balance out the fact that the IR right away can take Byss, Fondor, and Kuat with no opposition.
Noted. Don't think we can do much about the second shipyard until we can get another planet in for them, though.
Hyperspace speed was a bug for the Warlords, I've fixed it now.
why not use a corellian interdictor, I know there are some other models other than the CC-7700
There's the CC-2200 but there's no design for it.
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To be honest I liked the old ascendancy star destroyer model better.
And in regards to the CC-2200 just look for a suitable model to represent this.
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As far as the model goes, we make our own. The only designs for the CC-2200 out there are fanon, so if we wanted one, we could just make our own and be exactly as accurate. However, we don't like to make up our own designs for established ships.
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Can we pretty please do something about the pathetic sight range of units?
Also, maybe the Imperial Specialists could have a Stormtrooper or two with them for added protection? They're somewhat vulnerable wandering around on their own.
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I would like to see fleet commanders and land commanders back (maybe put the land commanders in a LAV/something similar for rebels) fleet commanders could come prepacked in a capital ship (still retain ships pop cap)
Also I still think the NR needs more ground units
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I confess uneasiness at the thought of fleet commanders returning(after whatever bug was in 1.0-1.2 that mass produced them faster than Spaarti Cylinders equipped with ysalamiri) plus they kind of take a bit of strategic importance off the heroes since you can basically send them everywhere and build them without limit nearly.
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AWESOME WORK with the 1.3 beta Im currently on era five with Palleon as imp remnant I guessed that to limit the units construction is to avoid the so called freezing bug ... Just one suggestion and it is that the space shipyards should be able to repair ships when damage during space battles as the new repair units in land but in space the shipyards or some other type of vessel>>> Ill keep testing searching for bugs, but its been a perfect play experience so far THANX for the opportunity to test :HA:
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Do the Golan Defense Platforms deliberately only have two initial fighter squadrons for garrison (no ongoing replacements, either limited or unlimited), and no difference between levels I/II/III? I know Wookiee only shows limited garrisons, but considering they are larger than Star Destroyers, they should be able to hold more than two squadrons?
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I was going off of the canon stats for them.
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The AI doesn't seem limited by the galactic population cap...I'm not so sure it's a bad thing but it makes the endgame a little ridiculous sometimes.
When the AI has like 5 planets left but can assemble a 300 pop fleet to throw at you, it's pretty stunning.
The other objection I have to this is it sort of goes against the point of the GC pop reduction. I like that major population centers are prime targets that should benefit you but it should also be a detriment to your enemy by limiting their supply.
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They are limited by the galactic pop, however some GCs still have starting fleets that go above the limit, and units don't automatically get destroyed if you lose planets/population capacity. You can lose every planet but one, and even if you have a fleet with 450 population as long as you're not building any more, it lets you keep what you have.
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Talking about interdictors. If not CC-7700, then why not CC-7700/E (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/CC-7700/E_interdiction_cruiser)? It could look like regular one.
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Well, the problem with the CC-7700 is it looks terrible, sosomething based on the exact same design would have the same problem.
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In the 19 BBY campaign te remnant shouldnt own Bilbringi because that was lost during the Thrawn campaign.
I may be wrong though but that's what the planets description indicates.
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They are limited by the galactic pop, however some GCs still have starting fleets that go above the limit, and units don't automatically get destroyed if you lose planets/population capacity. You can lose every planet but one, and even if you have a fleet with 450 population as long as you're not building any more, it lets you keep what you have.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree. For instance, I'm playing Reunification right now as the IR. According to the history logs, I'm holding roughly 30 planets to the NR's 20. Granted the NR has Coruscant and a lot of the Core, including Fondor. But I have Kuat, Corellia, Pakrik Minor, Bothawui, Mrisst, and all of the systems above that, including the Mon Calamari sector.
My current GC pop cap is under 700, I can't believe they have a pop cap greater than 600. However, I can see (thanks to Bothawui) that they have fleets totally at least 900 pop, and that's just what I can see. In addition they must have garrisons on all their planets, and they sure as hell seem to be constantly building more and more ships.
And lastly, according to the history tab, the NR has a military twice my size and I can see the logs fluctuating as I win battles and reduce their fleets but then their plot goes back up again, which suggests they're building yet more ships. Now I'm not sure how this chart works, but I thought it might be based on fleet and army population...
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Does the Y-wing's Ion Cannon shot do anything? After activation the Y-wings don't shoot an ion shot but have the icon turned on. Does it affect them at all?
Also for the Thrawn Campaign, can you add Iillor and the Corusca Rainbow to the NR side in the Thrawn campaign? I know you don't want to go nuts with the heroes but they should have at least one interdictor...
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According to Wookiepedia, the MC40a carries a fighter squadron, can you add that? It would make them a much better complement/alternative to the Assault Frigates...
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I was Just playing as the empire of the hand a short while ago for about say twenty minutes (exams keeping me busy) and well my observations are probably slightly rigged due to the absurd lag the faction causes on my comp but (i don't know if this was intentional) in my several battles with the empire (the galactic was empires at war) i found that ships like the phalanx destroyer are really quite pathetic. i watched my fleet of two phalanx destroyers a chaf four interdectors and two fighter carriers basically shooting at two carracks and a dreadnaut and i was suprised to note that even with all fire on one carrack it was hardly dieing, and when i focused all fire on the larger dreadnaut it took much too long to take down just its shields not to mention its many hard points. a fleet that would have been gone in maybe a minute under fire from an equivalent imperial fleet, took more than two minutes until i just decided to wipe them out with my fighters (which work great btw). this encouraged me to look closer at masers and i realized its not because they do less damage or shoot less often its because every 3-5 shots one totally misses even when the ships totally still. plus some of the ones that do hit almost seem to do nothing? Im not sure if this is just balance (like EotH ships are super tough but cant hit anything while other ships are varied in others ways) or if its because of how damn fast the projectiles move, personally id like it better for them to be just slower simply for conveinance (and lag and just because i like to see the devastation my guns reek upon enemies) I find this only really to be a problem because it makes ships like the ascendancy and the phalanx destroyer although said to not be worse than star destroyers WAY worse. This is also for me a big reason why im liking the Eoth alot less :P
I hope theirs actually a problem here and im not just crazy
P.s im sorry i made you read so much :P
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What version are you playing? There's no reason for the Empire of the Hand to lag more than other factions, in fact they're more optimized on the whole. They are not any less accurate than any Imperial or NR ships, either. The Phalanx is probably the most powerful non-Super in the game, too.
The only reason for anything you're talking about to be happening is if you're playing 1.0, not 1.3
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I am definitly playing the 1.3 beta
i was playing very close attention im almost certain megamaser shots where missing every 3-5 shot
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The first half of your post really makes me think you're on 1.0 where the Clawcraft had an issue that made the EotH lag and the Phalanx would have had issues that made it weaker than it should have been, but I'll take your word for it. I've changed the scale factor of the megamasers since the release which should effect the speed, but the higher speed of the projectiles in the beta would increase their accuracy, if anything.
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This seems possible because of weird things that occured during installation, but im doubtful considering i never acctually played 1.1 on this computer...
I did just check again and the problem seems to only affect smallerish craft
like a victory cruiser is easily hittible while things like dreanauts and carracks and strikcruiser are missed fairly often
ONE OTHER THING
the hand of judgment comes into space battles in a transport rather the the gilla i beleive it was called
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Well, the missed shots are usually because ships tend to retarget and go for other targets, and when the other target is a fighter or farther away it'll look like it's missing. I was just able to take down Pellaeon with a Phalanx and a Kariek, and when I had a Kariek against an Endurance, every shot hit. I'll check the phalanx's firing cones though.
For the Hand of Judgement, canonically they didn't take the Gillia with them when they joined the Empire of the Hand, so we didn't re-add it.
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From perusing the XML files, and just from what I've observed, it appears that the EtoH don't have any ground commanders that impart combat bonuses, including General Shial. And while Thrawn can be deployed in land battles, it doesn't appear that he offers an combat bonuses either. Now if it's a conscious choice to eliminate this aspect such that the EtoH don't have ground commanders, that's understandable.
On the other hand, I've just finished reading Choices of One, great book of course. And spoiler alert, the Hand of Judgement join up with the EtoH, but not just as stormtroopers or commandos, but as trainers. This suggests that they take on command responsibilities. I'd like to recommend that they be made a commanding hero type unit that imparts combat bonuses.
Also, I've played the EtoH extensively, including with the 1.3 beta, and haven't had any complaints about targeting or damage output by the fleet. If anything I still argue that the EtoH ships are still the best of all the fleets.
There has also been discussion of imparting a greater identity to the EtoH. I've been thinking about this one for awhile. It's been established that charrics and masers do damage not just with energy, like blaster and laser bolts, but also with kinetic energy, which also makes lightsaber deflecting more difficult. Physically, this would reasonably suggest that the effective range of charrics and masers (and megamasers) would be lower than that of regular blasters and lasers, but might be more powerful at closer ranges. From this, I would like to suggest that one of two things be tested for the EtoH: (1) Masers be made more powerful than lasers, but have shorter range, or (2) Scale the damage output of masers to the distance they travel (I don't even know if this is possible with the EaW engine). This adds an extra layer of strategy to the EtoH, as they might be forced to endure a bit more pounding before closing to the optimal range before opening fire with masers, but which would make them devastating close combatants.
EDIT: If something like this were implemented, I'd recommend also changing the EtoH vehicle weapons from laser cannons to maser cannons (especially the RFT and the AT-CW). Strategically this makes for so many interesting tactics. Megamaser tanks and Mortar TATs (btw, what does TAT stand for?) could be at the back of the lines, with RFTs and AT-CWs screening for them and taking the brunt of initial fire.
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Scaling the damage done to range isn't possible in EaW, however as far as the range issue goes, wouldn't it be the other way around, at least in space? Basically, if we're attributing the limited range of lasers to dissipation of energy, then something based on a physical object would have a much greater range. If you throw something in space, it'll just keep going until something makes it stop.
The TAT in Mortar TAT "officially" stands for Treaded Artillery Tank.
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Well this depends on how much science we're imparting into our science fiction. If a maser beam is composed of both energy and particles, you could argue that the energy portion could remain concentrated, and oriented in the same direction vector, over greater distances than a collection of accelerated particles. The particles could experience collisions with each other, and be more susceptible to slight fundamental forces like gravity, which greatly increases that chance that they dissipate. Thus, a laser could have greater range than a maser.
Yeah I didn't think the scaling damage was doable, too bad. That probably would have been the best implementation, not necessarily reducing the range of Chiss weaponry but offering incentive for closing maneuvers.
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Well what i had just said its ships like endurances and paelleon are hittible, its just smaller ships like strike cruiser and carracks which turbo lasers hit and maser miss fairly often.
and alright i have only read the first book about the hand of judgment so i didnt know this :P
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During the Isard era, both the EtoH and the IR have Soontir Fel. Recommend cutting Fel, and probably Jagged (since he hadn't even been born yet) from the EtoH side during that era.
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Yeah, we're basically revising the entire hero spawning and unit buildabilities accross all era for each faction (more EotH and NR than IR) for 1.4, too late to fit it into 1.3 at this point. Jagged is probably getting cut entirely, and EotH's hero blod will hopefully not be a problem since the heroes will be distributed more evenly across the board (Parck, Stent and Niriz being the only constants, with Soontir and HoJ being 4/5)
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Shouldn't that be HoJ in early eras and Aurek Seven in 4/5?