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Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge

« on: January 02, 2017, 10:15:52 AM »

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so, I just saw Rogue one yesterday, and I thought it was amazing. don't get me wrong, I am still mad at Disney for cancelling all work on the EU and for TFA, but rogue one was at least a partial redemption.

so, first the good stuff. beware, this contains SPOILERS. Krennic apprehends Galen, kills Lyra, and tries to hunt down Jyn. Saw rescues and raises her. rebels do questionable things. K-2SO hits Jyn as she runs and takes her to the rebels. death star has two types of firing(makes for more effective weapon). Krennic and Tarkin constantly in a political war. the captain dude(whose name I cant remember of the top of my head) is ordered to kill Galen when the find him after the briefing. Jenna city destroyed, saw's extremist rebels destroyed, Krennic forced to clean up his mess, massive rebel attack on top of Galen, Jym and the others go rogue, Vader chokes Krennic, Jyn and Krennic arrive on Scarif almost simultaneously, big battle of scarif, rebel admiral and fleet die(explains battle of yavin), rogue one team dies, Tarkin kills Krennic and the imperial base on Scarif, Vader kills a bunch of rebels, ends directly before AHN

now the bad: Saw refusing to help free the galaxy with Jyn, rebel general basically a rebel imperial, why did the captain dude stall for time, krennic kills design team, captain dude comes BACK TO LIVE and shoots krennic in the back, krennic survives being shot, Tantive IV attached to rebel command ship?!!?!?, and all the characters die, including Jyn, we don't know if the Ghost made it out, meaning star wars rebels might be over now, no screen time for Wedge and Biggs

overall, good movie, but raised a BUNCH of questions.

Posted by: kucsidave

« on: December 30, 2016, 04:28:41 PM »

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I think it was decent as a movie. It had good-ish effects (though I have to admit it was sometimes not working as it should have)
the story was at least half if not entirely decent. The directing was OK. The acting was definitely good. What I liked was the character development of both the pro- and the antagonist.
The camerawork was good and I definitely liked the way the movie was portraying a space battle. not just a mess, but finally focusing one event at a time. something THA failed in miserably. I couldn't make out there what was happening, here it was much more understandable and clear.
and what's most important:
DISNEY GREW BALLS

Posted by: GreyStar

« on: December 29, 2016, 11:11:07 AM »

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I only ever frequent this site on phone and I never bothered looking up the spellings of the character names. But yes I did mean him. (Wouldn't have minded Lando though.)

I've read it was the estate of the actors who agreed to it happening.

Posted by: Pali

« on: December 29, 2016, 03:59:11 AM »

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Uh... Lando Calrissian wasn't in Rogue One at all. You may have meant Captain Cassian? Bringing someone back after they've been ambiguously taken out is an old movie trope - we don't get a clear view of him being hit, we just know he gets hurt and knocked down. The movie does a decent job of making it seem like he died there, as we see other characters dying around the same time of the movie and so we're willing to believe that a main character just died at the climax, but I'm not going to pretend that the movie wasn't doing something a million other movies have done by bringing him back (edit: I'm fine with tropes when well-used, and here I liked but didn't love it - I was fully in the moment and caught by surprise when it happened, but after seeing him I can't deny thinking "Of course he survived").

I'd be very surprised to learn that whoever holds the rights to Peter Cushing's image wasn't at the very least asked if it could be used, and I expect that they received some degree of financial compensation for using it. Likeness rights are very much a real issue, but Disney's legal teams know their shit and I'd be shocked if their ass isn't completely covered on that front.

Posted by: GreyStar

« on: December 29, 2016, 12:31:59 AM »

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Spoilers
I honestly thought Scariff was pretty boring as it was just going through the motions of a kill them all ending. Also the character development of Jyn was weird, going from hating everything to trusting a droid with her life in the span of two days. Not extremely bad but questionable. I did like the space battle though. I also don't understand bringing Callrisian back. Either way the plans were transmitted and they were dead so. That said I don't care what Didney says Tarkin will always be the man behind the Death Star for me.

As much as I liked the CGI it's morality is questionable. Would Peter Crushing really have approved? Like for Leia that's fine as it was Carrie Fisher so you cannot possibly argue it's immoral. You can argue it's cheap or whatever but in the end, it worked for me. At least the initial viewing.

Also did anyone else find the nameless Stormtroopers more sympathetic then the orphan cast lol?

Posted by: Revanchist

« on: December 28, 2016, 11:32:45 PM »

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Well I finally watched it yesterday. It was a solid movie. Better than TFA by miles. It gave a good look at the Rebellion and its less than moral tactics, as well as the fractured nature of the Rebel Alliance (Saw being kicked out, the Rebellion's indecision and cowardice costing the lives of practically their entire fleet). I liked that we saw the interplay of Imperial politics and how ruthless of a man Tarkin was (by the end of the movie I felt bad for Krennic). There's a good reason he was as feared as Vader. And speaking of Vader, wow those last few minutes. The sheer wall of destruction passing through the soldiers was fantastic. The saber style was very in keeping with how you see him in ANH too: a lot of the circular motions with his saber, no frills.

Chirut Imwe (I think I spelled the blind man's name right) didn't really bother me. I saw him as someone who had a very low Force Sensitivity, enough to enhance his reflexes and senses with the proper focus and concentration. I thought him walking across the field would have bothered me more than it did, but I'd imagine it takes a lot less Force abilities to just nudge that blaster barrel a little off target than it would to say pull the lever from a distance. Even then, it was only enough for a one way journey, and knowing it would mean his death would have no doubt strengthened his connection to the Force (as we know, there is no Death, there is only the Force).

That's not to say the movie didn't have its flaws. For example, I was not a fan of the ISD in atmosphere over Jedha. The Master Switch and Arcade Game Data Grab were jarring as well. Also the Tantive seemed shoehorned in. It would have been better IMO if the soldiers had all been racing to the backup comms array to send the data to the Tantive which was on its way to Tatooine to pick up Kenobi. It would make Leia and Vader's dialogue seem a little less out of place in ANH.

Posted by: CaptainPogo

« on: December 28, 2016, 02:42:50 PM »

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I enjoyed the film, as it offers something very different than the usual Jedi/Sith conflicts.

Plus, seeing the Rebellion as willing to dirty their hands and the conflict not being too black vs white was a nice touch.

Posted by: Slornie

« on: December 25, 2016, 03:33:26 PM »

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Quote from: turtle225 on December 25, 2016, 12:19:50 PM

Next, the Death Star having a low power shot and being fired prior to Alderaan. Did Disney make that crap up?

There were similar incidents recorded in the old Expanded Universe in the Death Star novel including the destruction of a penal planet above which the station was constructed. One thing I thought that novel did tidy up quite nicely was the whole "stand by.. stand by.." delay right before the Death Star was going to fire on Yavin.

Posted by: turtle225

« on: December 25, 2016, 12:19:50 PM »

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SPOILERS

The scene I found most annoying was the very last one with Vader because it just made no sense and took me out of the moment. Why are the plans only on one ship? (yes episode 4 kind of forces this restriction I guess but in the context of just Rouge One it doesn't make sense). But even so, why the heck would the fleet jump out and leave the ship that has the plans behind (yes I know some ships got cut off, but the ship with the plans should have been first to go). Finally, if Vader is wrecking a bunch of clowns and the disc is right there in front of him, there is no way at all that he wouldn't have just force grabbed it. He's force pulling blasters and rebels but can't grab the plans? It was just so silly.

Another part a found really annoying is that a star destroyer gets fully disabled by just a couple of Y-Wing ion cannon shots. But then it gets worse when it manages to slice through everything it touches like butter as if the hunk was a floating lightsaber. Honestly it would have been a fender bender if anything. The scene was totally ridiculous.

The scene with the non-Jedi dude walking across the beach was dumb I agree. I would have preferred him to be weaving and dodging rather than force-magic ing everybody to miss their shots. Then heavy blaster man just gets out of cover and walks around until he gets shot up. His death was the worst one done.

Next, the Death Star having a low power shot and being fired prior to Alderaan. Did Disney make that crap up?

Why weren't Biggs and Wedge featured in space battle? Ok maybe "featured" isn't fair, but I was a little sad when they didn't get a cameo. The X-Wing novels trump Biggs up to have been an awesome pilot but he's kind of a scrub in episode 4. I was hoping for a little Biggs/Wedge action in here.

I can continue to nitpick, but honestly I overall enjoyed the movie. I liked the darker tone and I'm a fan of martyr/sacrifice stories. I like how the Death Star reactor flaw was designed sabotage rather than the empire just being stupid (they are still stupid about it but it's something at least). I can agree that many of the characters didn't leave a big impression but oh well. After hating episode seven, this movie at least gave me some hope that Disney can do something interesting.

Final tidbit, maybe it's just because of playing EaW and mods, but does anybody else get annoyed how the bigger ships almost never do anything in the movies? They focus entirely on the Starfighter combat which is fine and exciting, but I get annoyed when I see all of these big ships just floating around a not shooting anything.

Posted by: Illidan Stormrage

« on: December 23, 2016, 04:07:13 PM »

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Quote from: Slornie on December 23, 2016, 12:12:32 PM

I think A is quite possible since otherwise why would Mon Mothma have been so keen on Bail Organa hunting up some aged Force-wielding relic from the Clone Wars? In fact I'd quite prefer this turn out to be the case. B is incredibly unlikely considering the effort Disney have gone to re: canon and the new Story Group. Third option you haven't mentioned (but has since in this thread) is that the duo were otherwise engaged and not available to join either the Rogue mission or the subsequent reinforcement.

Well, Jyn and Cassian were kind of acting as spies in the way they infiltrated the facility, and the theft did happen during a (belatedly) co-ordinated assault by Rebel ground and space forces. Slightly different emphasis but I don't think it's that significant an issue.

well I argue that Disney reshot a lot of film in has affected the ending really badly since you can tell by trailers.

On your point about the ship that looks like phoenix squadron's ghost not being ghost is unlikely. Since they requested for Captain Syndulla at the base. plus wedge states after he crash his a-wing he work on frieghter

Posted by: Slornie

« on: December 23, 2016, 12:12:32 PM »

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Quote from: AdmrialThrawn2 on December 22, 2016, 07:16:08 PM

Why the fuck weren't Kannan and Ezra sent in the U-Wing to back them up more on the ground?
Either
A: they are both Dead
B: Disney failed to realize the cannonity problems in this film.
They would've help make it awesome.

I think A is quite possible since otherwise why would Mon Mothma have been so keen on Bail Organa hunting up some aged Force-wielding relic from the Clone Wars? In fact I'd quite prefer this turn out to be the case. B is incredibly unlikely considering the effort Disney have gone to re: canon and the new Story Group. Third option you haven't mentioned (but has since in this thread) is that the duo were otherwise engaged and not available to join either the Rogue mission or the subsequent reinforcement.

Quote from: Lord Xizer on December 22, 2016, 10:26:35 PM

And there are worse problems with the characters, Sarr garrera(or however you say that name) is supposed to watch jyn, but dumps her on her own to 'protect' her even though she has the Empire looking for her

He said it was to protect her, but I think in reality it was more for the protection of his own rebels. Having such a high profile individual identified as part of his crew would have drawn far more attention to his activities, more so than perhaps he was willing or able to entertain. Just look at how much attention Kanan and Ezra brought to the Ghost crew.

Quote from: Lord Xizer on December 22, 2016, 10:26:35 PM

the director needs hostages to make the scientist work for him, instead he shoots one and stops looking for the other

Who said he stopped looking for her? We don't know how long his Stormtroopers combed the homestead, how long Jyn was in that hole or how sneaky Gerrera had to be to get her out. Obviously she was still sufficiently wanted that later he had to abandon her (as discussed above).

Quote from: Lord Xizer on December 22, 2016, 10:26:35 PM

then lets the scientist work with zero supervision on a project he has stated MANY times to be hostile toward.

Again, who said he had zero supervision? If he was that critical to the programme (albeit perhaps more in terms of speed of completion) presumably there were few others sufficiently qualified to supervise and pick up on anything untoward he attempted. Besides, knowing that he was probably under observation and suspicion one would assume he was careful to avoid any subterfuge until trust was rebuilt and observation relaxed.

Quote from: Lord Xizer on December 22, 2016, 10:26:35 PM

later he gets the scientist to admit he sent stuff to the rebels, then shoots the innocent DESIGN TEAM

Galen admitted to sending the message and claimed to have acted alone. How could Krennic be sure Galen was telling the truth? Guilt by association and summary judgement is hardly beyond the Empire, and particularly from a senior officer struggling to maintain his position of power and influence in light of serious security lapses executed under his nose.

Quote from: AdmrialThrawn2 on December 23, 2016, 10:52:34 AM

"During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
Ultimate weapon, The DEATH
STAR"
I clearly states that during A SPACE BATTLE they stole the plans not a ground assault/space battle
and in addition Vader states in a New Hope that they were stolen during a coordinated attack with rebel spies stealing them.

Well, Jyn and Cassian were kind of acting as spies in the way they infiltrated the facility, and the theft did happen during a (belatedly) co-ordinated assault by Rebel ground and space forces. Slightly different emphasis but I don't think it's that significant an issue.

Posted by: Mr.Puerto

« on: December 23, 2016, 11:37:22 AM »

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Quote from: AdmrialThrawn2 on December 23, 2016, 10:52:34 AM

ahhhh my firen that's where I got you.
"During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
Ultimate weapon, The DEATH
STAR"
I clearly states that during A SPACE BATTLE they stole the plans not a ground assault/space battle
and in addition Vader states in a New Hope that they were stolen during a coordinated attack with rebel spies stealing them.

And With the argument about Kannan and Ezra makes sense I mean they are pretty important members of the rebellion sense they got the hammer heads destroyed a top secret imperil weapon (Immobilizer) and found out about Grand Admiral Thrawn's Tie defenders.
they have help establish many rebel bases for the early rebellion and are now going to help Saw gerrra in the rest of season 3.

and finally the only excuse for Kannan and ezra not being their that I can wrap around is that that sence with the hammerhead was dumb but what if ezra and kanna use the force to help destroy it?
2/5 for me I like all the imperial stuff a lot and vader and his castle

It doesn't say the spies were part of the space battle, it just says DURING the battle. There is such things as combined arms. Ezra and the crew could've been somewhere else the galaxy because taking the quote DIRECTLY FROM DAVE FILONI "“I can imagine doing that entire [Scarif] battle from their point of view, whoever is on the Ghost at that point"
He has also specifically said that it probably wasn't them inside the Ghost. Also since you hate the movie so much why do you want to see these characters so badly?

Posted by: Illidan Stormrage

« on: December 23, 2016, 10:52:34 AM »

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Quote from: Mr.Puerto on December 22, 2016, 08:57:37 PM

In the next coming days I'm going to make a topic addressing Disney. Anyway your A and B are completely stupid, they don't have to be two extremes and it can be easily explained anyway. Plus this was a non-jedi movie it would be a terrible choice to add them in. In addition He's character is great and gives depth inside other aspects of the Force and its worship. Plus you are only looking at one of the lines of the opening crawl
"It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.
During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
STAR"
It clearly states that there was a battle before the plans were obtained, so before you start hating with fact-less claims do your research.

ahhhh my firen that's where I got you.
"During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire's
Ultimate weapon, The DEATH
STAR"
I clearly states that during A SPACE BATTLE they stole the plans not a ground assault/space battle
and in addition Vader states in a New Hope that they were stolen during a coordinated attack with rebel spies stealing them.

And With the argument about Kannan and Ezra makes sense I mean they are pretty important members of the rebellion sense they got the hammer heads destroyed a top secret imperil weapon (Immobilizer) and found out about Grand Admiral Thrawn's Tie defenders.
they have help establish many rebel bases for the early rebellion and are now going to help Saw gerrra in the rest of season 3.

and finally the only excuse for Kannan and ezra not being their that I can wrap around is that that sence with the hammerhead was dumb but what if ezra and kanna use the force to help destroy it?

2/5 for me I like all the imperial stuff a lot and vader and his castle

Posted by: Pali

« on: December 22, 2016, 11:13:59 PM »

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Who says they let him keep the blaster? Black market weapons have never seemed hard to get in the Star Wars universe - hell, the Falcon is armed with the equivalent of two quad 50 cal turrets, with military grade armor, shields, sensors... Clearly advanced weapons aren't that hard to get ahold of.

An exhaust port of some sort is necessary. An exhaust port that is vulnerable enough that a single (or pair) of torpedos shot into it will cause complete annihilation is a massive design flaw. For a station that size, it is going to have LOTS of exhaust ports if they're all that small - radiating heat in space is a serious challenge, much more difficult in many ways than it is in an atmosphere. That a single one is vulnerable is actually a pretty subtle bit of sabotage, if you ask me.

I took Cassian not shooting her father as him having his mind changed by Jyn's insistence that Galen was one of the good guys. He clearly decided that he trusted her enough to defy the council and go on the mission with her.

Why did Vader board the Tantive IV instead of just destroying it in ANH? My guess in both cases would be that he wanted to be certain that the plans hadn't somehow escaped, and couldn't be so without actually having them back in his hands.

Posted by: Lord Xizer

« on: December 22, 2016, 10:26:35 PM »

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Quote from: Mr.Puerto on December 22, 2016, 08:57:37 PM

In the next coming days I'm going to make a topic addressing Disney. Anyway your A and B are completely stupid, they don't have to be two extremes and it can be easily explained anyway. Plus this was a non-jedi movie it would be a terrible choice to add them in. In addition He's character is great and gives depth inside other aspects of the Force and its worship. Plus you are only looking at one of the lines of the opening crawl

It clearly states that there was a battle before the plans were obtained, so before you start hating with fact-less claims do your research.

Well he does make some valid points though extreme in his view, I'll allow that he might have some sort of super developed Zen hearing which allowed him to fight, but the character does more Jedi things than most JEDI. The scene on the beach was just absolutely ridiculous(I mean I KNOW stromies can't hit shit but I was utterly flabbergasted)
I liked the Monk's character but felt it raised a LOT of problems in movie. For instance, he is a Force worshiping, Jedi loving, Jet Li fighting ability Monk...yet the Empire just lets him and his buddy do their own thing after apparently taking over their temple for crystals(and NOT destroying the Jedi statues or any memorabilia)...even letting said buddy keep a HEAVY repeating blaster. I'm in the US and even with all our gun friendly policies it's illegal to own the equivalent of a portable minigun without HEAVY oversight, the Empire is a thousand times more oppressive and yet they seem to be lenient on giving malcontents who worship an OUTLAWED Jedi religion heavy weapons. The monk further seems to be able to sense the Force, yet it is claimed he is not force sensitive. It became so unbelievable that it began to affect my enjoyment of the character.

And there are worse problems with the characters, Sarr garrera(or however you say that name) is supposed to watch jyn, but dumps her on her own to 'protect' her even though she has the Empire looking for her allegedly, the director needs hostages to make the scientist work for him, instead he shoots one and stops looking for the other then lets the scientist work with zero supervision on a project he has stated MANY times to be hostile toward. later he gets the scientist to admit he sent stuff to the rebels, then shoots the innocent DESIGN TEAM, the scientist claims he does everything for his daughter's sake and keeps building a 'flaw' into the weapon...even though an exhaust port from a reactor is not a flaw...it's kind of needed, The rebel cpt is an admitted alliance assassin...yet for apparently NO reason decides last minute NOT to kill Jyn's father and offers no explanation, Jyn is totally fine with the Rebel Alliance lying to her face, using her and killing her dad in front of her and then wants to help them immediately! Vader wants to stop the plans from getting out, so rater than DESTROY the crippled rebel flagsip he BOARDS it...even when it is defenseless and he is right by it in a STAR DESTROYER. The film had a MYRIAD of problems.(thus earning my 3/5 rating. Average but not into the realm of great.)