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Topic Summary

Posted by: Guderian
« on: December 28, 2015, 04:29:39 AM »

While I'd love to consider that to be possible, I have zero confidence that JJ and co. put that level of forethought into the Starkiller Base.

I like the movie, but I'm not going to try and figure out ways to make it smarter than it was.
I agree 100%
It is a nice theory, but that's it: A theory.
Just like the Theory i heard that Max von Sydow actually played an aged Boba Fett at the beginning....
Posted by: Pali
« on: December 28, 2015, 12:10:09 AM »

While I'd love to consider that to be possible, I have zero confidence that JJ and co. put that level of forethought into the Starkiller Base.

I like the movie, but I'm not going to try and figure out ways to make it smarter than it was.
Posted by: Mat8876
« on: December 27, 2015, 04:22:55 PM »

That's an interesting theory and it makes a bit of sense.
Posted by: Slornie
« on: December 27, 2015, 02:07:21 PM »

So I've been reading through the 100 page long Force Awakens thread over on another forum I frequent and came across this.  Quite interesting theory:

Quote
Theory making the rounds that would basically means the First Order was even smarter than we suspected, and the Resistance's win even costlier than losing Han.

So, in Clone Wars we learn that as part of making their lightsabers, jedi travel to the ice planet of Illum to obtain the kyber crystals used as the focal point of the lightsaber. These crystals are not unique to Illum (they're found on Lothal and a few other locations), but it's the primary source. In other sources (part of the new canon), we learn that a very large kyber crystal was used as part of constructing the Death Star to focus the superlaser.

Now. If one overlay the new canon map over the old EU maps, two things appear.
First, all planets that appear on both match fairly closely to very closely to their original location.
Second, the location marked "Starkiller base's original location" is nowhere near any planet on the old EU map.

Except one, which it matches perfectly. Illum.

Starkiller base, of course, is an ice world that hosts a superweapon that would probably have had a very big use for kyber crystals.

So it's very possible that the First Order were even smarter than suspected in carving out their weapon out of a planet by carving out a planet full of death-beam-focusing crystals,. And that the Resistance, in destroying Starkiller base, also destroyed one of the most sacred sites of the old jedi order, and the largest source of lightsaber crystals.
Posted by: StarLordX
« on: December 26, 2015, 01:40:34 PM »

I watched the whole movie. It was amazing, epic and a bit of a tearjerker, especially with Han Solo dying at the hands of his own son. I did admit, I had a good laugh when it comes to Kylo's temper tantrums.
Posted by: Guderian
« on: December 24, 2015, 02:50:44 PM »

I wouldn't call it good sci-fi, but that's because I don't see the movies as sci-fi (the EU sometimes qualifies).  A fun bit of space fantasy, though?  Definitely.
Mhh i think i would have to rewatch it, to see wether i would give it the Space-Fantasy Quality Stamp of the Old Star Wars ^^
It was more fantasy with them going back to the "The force sorrounds us" stuff instead of the Midi-chlorians...
So in that aspect definitly Fantasy.
It's a gray area but i guess Star Wars in general does fit more to Space-Fantasy in comparison to other Sci-Fi Movies ^^
Posted by: turtle225
« on: December 24, 2015, 02:13:58 PM »

I agree that there are some very large grading curves going on here.

I'm one of those people who never really forgave Disney for killing the EU and was expecting this movie to justify that decision. As such, I'm part of the group that had hopelessly high hopes and expectations for this movie and admittedly would likely never have been satisfied.

Some of my friends who have seen the movie and are more casual fans and or people who never ventured into the EU seem to have enjoyed it much more than I did. My sister went in with very low expectations and really liked the movie, even while admitting a lot of the flaws that we pointed out.


While the movie has plenty of problems that can be picked apart by those who are looking, some people are more willing to just roll with things and try to enjoy themselves. It's a pretty interesting bit of psychology.
Posted by: Pali
« on: December 24, 2015, 04:40:54 AM »

I wouldn't call it good sci-fi, but that's because I don't see the movies as sci-fi (the EU sometimes qualifies).  A fun bit of space fantasy, though?  Definitely.
Posted by: Guderian
« on: December 24, 2015, 04:26:58 AM »

I understand most of the issues people here have with it, and even agree with many, but I still can't shake the impression that many here are judging it using a different criteria than is used on the old movies, and that the old are getting passes not granted to the new.
Funny thing, i talked with a few friends of mine about the movie and the exact same thing came up.
We all agreed, if we were to watch the old movies 4-6 again we would probably tear it apart as much as Episode 7.
For example the convenient Weakness in the Death Star, just sending out 10 Tie's even though you have thousands on the Death Star.
The Millenium Falcon ex machina at the end, the unnecessary trench run (Why it's space just go in right above it ^^)

But we also all agreed J.J. delivered a good Sci-Fi Movie!
Posted by: Pali
« on: December 24, 2015, 03:34:42 AM »

I don't see how the ENTIRE New Republic fleet was destroyed on the Hosnian System however, must have been pretty small. I have a feeling the Imperial Remnant may show up at some point, but in what form I have no clue.

It seems, according to what I've read on Wookiepedia, that in this storyline the NR disarmed almost completely after peace with the remains of the Empire was formed, and those remains went off into the Unknown Regions and ended up eventually returning in the form of the First Order.  So the First Order effectively is this storyline's version of the IR.
Posted by: Pentastar Enforcer
« on: December 24, 2015, 02:52:22 AM »

Liking all the opinions so far, I thoroughly enjoyed the film overall, I didn't like the copying of Episode IV a lot, but I'd say it was done pretty well for copying that movie. I don't see how the ENTIRE New Republic fleet was destroyed on the Hosnian System however, must have been pretty small. I have a feeling the Imperial Remnant may show up at some point, but in what form I have no clue. Can't wait for further entries, as after, this was only the beginning. What are your guy's thoughts on what will happen in the plot next? Personally I think the IR is going to show up at some point (yay for the team), and a lot of interest in the Unknown Regions is curious.....


I got a few little bits of proof with me as well - The theory on Snoke revealed.

http://geeknation.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-supreme-leader-snokes-identity-revealed-spoilers/

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-supreme-leader-snoke-theories-andy-serkis/




Posted by: Pali
« on: December 24, 2015, 01:12:00 AM »

I agree.  Plot was a complete rehash of New Hope.  Somehow, that didn't ruin it for me the way it did for you, and I'm sorry it did. :( I never expected originality from JJ, so it didn't bother me that there wasn't much. EDIT: If it helps, this lack of originality is my main criticism of the movie as well, and why I seem to rate it a point or so below most of the people I know IRL, why I deem the movie to be "good" rather than "great".  Your grading scale just seems to give originality more weight than mine. ;)
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: December 23, 2015, 11:59:24 PM »

It's main problem that it treads old grounds... altogether too kriffing much. If I wanted to watch A New Hope again, I can use my DVD and watch it for free. Why do we need to watch A New Hope 2.0? It's also literally so lazy in this regard they just injected the very same soundtrack! basically "Insert Force Theme" Insert "Yoda/Theme of Love"

It is exactly like A New Hope.  An astromech droid containing sensitive information for an Empire-fighting Rebellion barely escapes an attack that cripples his masters ship by Imperial forces spearheaded by the main bad guy, a Dark Jedi/Sith who wears full black and speaks behind a mask that alters his voice. The droid's original master is captured by said bad guy and the droid must come across a new master, one who is a lonely teenager on a desert world, but first the droid is temporarily captured by Jawa like creature. They meet up with a second companion and barely escape an Imperial attack on the Millennium Falcon, where they meet up with Han Solo and Chewbacca. Meanwhile, on the large, spherical battlestation belonging to the Empire that has a weapon capable of destroying planets, the bad guy interrogates the captured droid master for information. Not much later, the Empire's superweapon is fired on an enemy planet, homeworld to an important character and ally of the Rebellion. Deciding that the moment to strike is now, the Rebellion orchestrates an attack on this battlestation, involving a low altitude run with X-Wings and TIE Fighters and a weak spot that needs to be blown up. Meanwhile, an important character and father-figure to the main character is killed by an old acquaintance, ending with the main character shouting in protest. Finally the battle culminates with the destruction of the battlestation and the main bad guy's fate left ambiguous, while the heroes are celebrated on a forest world near a base that oddly resembles a temple.

Now, which movie was I talking about? IV or VII?

It billed itself as new, got rid of existing canon for "Creative Freedom" then did NOTHING with it!
Posted by: Pali
« on: December 23, 2015, 07:08:32 PM »

*shrugs* Perhaps my next viewing will diminish my enjoyment of the movie, but I somewhat doubt it.  I understand most of the issues people here have with it, and even agree with many, but I still can't shake the impression that many here are judging it using a different criteria than is used on the old movies, and that the old are getting passes not granted to the new.  Underdeveloped, shallow primary and secondary bad guys (particularly if viewed as individual movies rather than a trilogy)?  Check.  Unoriginal story?  Check (except for V).  No understanding of distance in space?  Check (most egregiously in V).

Ironically, most people I've discussed the movie with IRL think I'm the one who is too harsh on it. ;)
Posted by: kucsidave
« on: December 23, 2015, 05:44:26 PM »

Kuscidave, I listed multiple problems I had with it as a film. It is highly unoriginal story wise, nearly is an identical copy of IV, has extremely weak villains, relies heavily on the nostalgia and special effects over substance and anything actually new and worst of all has the laziest soundtrack of any of the movies. Say what you will about the prequels but at least tgey brought us memorable music like Dual of the Fates, Battle of the Heros, Grievous theme and the Order 66 piece. This one was on auto tune and insert Force theme here
Funny thing is that the soundtrack was composed by the same person who did every single Star Wars movie, and J.J gave him free hand.
Of course it was a redone 4, this was what fans actually demanded from him. Though I agree that this was a HUGE mistake that J.J. delivered.
The villains, yeah... no... My personal problem with Kylo is the same one I had with Anakyn in the prequel triology. He whines too much...
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