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Posted by: Malanthor

« on: February 07, 2015, 02:23:52 PM »

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I am aware of star wars beeing very inconsistent with numbers. In some lore a couple of star destroyers is a big force in others several hundreds are.
Standard sins capital ships are what 50 points a piece i believe with 2000 beeing the max, so max cap ships would be 40.
In star wars the max number of lets say isd2 at 6 a pop would be like uhmm there are alot of research that inncrease pop but around 200 would be my guess.
Quite a big difference, especially beeing that the ships in star wars also seem much bigger or are much bigger in lore than the standard sins ships which seems more like beeing comparable in size to extra large ww2 battleships.

In any case, i guess you can always play on on the low fleet size setting.

Its just preference in any case, i cant claim that my wish of longer build times, higher costs and less cap is any more right than the reverse. And it beeing your mod i guess its all up to you hehe.

In any case, very nice mod, and thank you for replying.

Posted by: Corey

« on: February 07, 2015, 10:36:16 AM »

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The planet defenses thing I already addressed in the thread named "Planet Defensibility" (<- Click there), so rather than post the same stuff in two places I'll just link you there and address the other thing here.

That's a characteristic almost exclusive to the Nebula and other New Class capital ships; it's not representative of any other ship, and keep in mind that ship limits cannot be applied to individual ships and therefore must be large enough to allow appropriate numbers of everything. We can't say, for example, you're only allowed one Nebula but you can have 10 MC80Bs. Also, discussions of ship numbers in Star Wars are very inconsistent and unreliable. Plenty of times that sort of fact or stat is thrown in as a minor trivia thing, despite the fact that it doesn't really make sense within how star Wars works. Otherwise, the New Republic spent tons of money on the New Class Modernization program which by all counts was effective and we have no reason to believe the results of it were prohibitively expensive, and yet just ditched every capital ship and went back to spamming older models of Mon Calamari capital ships as they were fighting the biggest war in their history just to keep some aspect of "ooh look how unique these are!" When the Imperial fleet is mentioned, Thrawn having only 200 ISDs was considered pitifully low even for the 8 sectors he controlled, and that's just an individual class.

As for how this translates into game mechanics, aside from what I already mentioned, it's relatively scaled and ship numbers in the mod are actually fairly similar to Sins, with some different scaling based on the faction. There's a higher number of capital ships than Sins, yes, but that's because there's not the same sort of hard divide between Frigates, Cruisers and Capital ships as there is in Sins; it's more of a spectrum. In Star Wars, the best frigate may even be more combat effective than the worst capital ship (Compare the BAC to the MC80, for example). We're also only given one setting that has to apply to every map, so you'll have the same pop cap on Deep Core Conflict, a 16 planet map as you will on Dissolution which has 184. We tried a few things to make the pop cap scale off of planets as opposed to just research, including an EaW-style method, but none of them were successful. In these situations, if you want fewer ships on the smaller maps I'd suggest using the "Small fleets" option in the game setup screen.

Posted by: Corey

« on: February 07, 2015, 10:34:35 AM »

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Take the nebula for instance, only 10 existed in 17 ABY, with a projected 1 beeing built each year. They were hoarded in core sectors because they were valuable. In this mod i feel like im mass producing cheap plastic toys. Ships build fast, they are cheap and the biggest issue of all: they take up hardly any population cap. 16 worlds and 150 star destroyers!

That's a characteristic almost exclusive to the Nebula; it's not representative of any other ship, and keep in mind that ship limits cannot be applied to individual ships and therefore must be large enough to allow appropriate numbers of everything. We can't say, for example, you're only allowed one Nebula but you can have 10 MC80Bs. Also, discussions of ship numbers in Star Wars are very inconsistent and unreliable. Plenty of times that sort of fact or stat is thrown in as a minor trivia thing, despite the fact that it doesn't really make sense within how star Wars works. Otherwise, the New Republic spent tons of money on the New Class Modernization program which by all counts was effective and we have no reason to believe the results of it were prohibitively expensive, and yet just ditched every capital ship and went back to spamming older models of Mon Calamari capital ships as they were fighting the biggest war in their history. When the Imperial fleet is mentioned, Thrawn having only 200 ISDs was considered pitifully low even for the 8 sectors he controlled

As for how this translates into game mechanics, aside from what I already mentioned, it's relatively scaled and ship numbers in the mod are actually fairly similar to Sins, with some different scaling based on the faction. There's a higher number of capital ships than Sins, yes, but that's because there's not the same sort of hard divide between Frigates, Cruisers and Capital ships as there is in Sins; it's more of a spectrum. In Star Wars, the best frigate may even be more combat effective than the worst capital ship (Compare the BAC to the MC80, for example). We're also only given one setting that has to apply to every map, so you'll have the same pop cap on Deep Core Conflict, a 16 planet map as you will on Dissolution which has 184. We tried a few things to make the pop cap scale off of planets as opposed to just research, including an EaW-style method, but none of them were successful. In these situations, if you want fewer ships on the smaller maps I'd suggest using the "Small fleets" option in the game setup screen.

Posted by: Malanthor

« on: February 07, 2015, 07:54:30 AM »

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Planet defenses: Planets go down like a lead balloon. I suggest upping the HP of planets quite a bit. Also when it comes to planetary shields some other mechanism should be used than the normal -build a orbital shield generator that lasts for 5 sec and then the planet is without a shield. Star wars have lot of effective planetary shields lorewise, and i think that the standard sins planetary shield method is somewhat lacking in this regard. One solution could be to make the shield generator invulnerable if it has to be built in orbit, in this case the shield would only stop a percent of incoming damage offcource.

In any case, my real issue with the mod is the HUGE number of ships in action.
Take the nebula for instance, only 10 existed in 17 ABY, with a projected 1 beeing built each year. They were hoarded in core sectors because they were valuable. In this mod i feel like im mass producing cheap plastic toys. Ships build fast, they are cheap and the biggest issue of all: they take up hardly any population cap. 16 worlds and 150 star destroyers! The low cap is linked to alot of other areas like planet vulnerability. The more ships you can field the faster a world goes down. Pretty logical. Reducing this amount would make worlds last longer, it would also help with lagg and memory issues. Not that i have them but im sure some must have.

Besides these issues i think the mod looks great. Thank you for making it, i am looking forward to many hours of fun playing it.