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Topic Summary

Posted by: briG
« on: September 15, 2017, 02:02:48 AM »

I did some math awhile back and the ISD-I puts out enough ion cannon DPS to where if it is hitting a shielded capital ship it will outdamage an ISD-II. If you are on a map with not many asteroids and other obsacles and can micro it to shoot what you want you can make good usage of it to shred shields and let your more turbolaser heavy ships finish them off.

It really is much easier to just build ISD-IIs though and a-move. Because if the pathing starts acting janky like it usually does trying to get anything to attack anything is a nightmare. So a cost reduction of the ISD-I or increase in ISD-II cost would be in order.

About the VSDs though... I really do love the VSD-I and CCVSD. The VSD-I I always felt packed more punch than the VSD-II but the CC variant upgrades puts it well above the VSD-I in terms of raw firepower. Easily my favorite ship due how small they are. They can easily be manuvered around to where I need them in battle and put out so much damage.
Posted by: Roachbugg
« on: September 14, 2017, 08:32:05 PM »

I fin ISD-1 to still be useful ships when used in squadrons but their effectiveness rapidly falls off when the Era's shift and the NR start getting NEw class ships. I'd say a reduction in cost and perhaps a buff to their Ion cannon damage per shot could keep them semi relevant in fleets although Carak's are still a cheap effective way for you to get ions in IR fleets. Another possibility is to give the ISD-1 similar stats to the crimson victory, however, such a change would need to be play tested. Lore wise ISD-1 being available is nice but most Star Destroyer fleets should comprise of Tector's backed by ISD-II.

Overall an upkeep and price cost reduction would still make them a relevant option for a warlord on a budget. (Warlord on a budget sounds like an Imperial remnant holo-net program xD)
Posted by: GreyStar
« on: September 14, 2017, 03:53:18 PM »

With 2.2's full release, I believe the Dues will cost more pop cap than the Imperator, giving better reasons to use one. It should also have less upkeep tied to it due to being a vastly more economical design, in addition to retaining it's ion and shield regen superiority.
Posted by: nightraven1901
« on: September 14, 2017, 02:51:55 PM »

Have to agree the ISD-I is too underpowered to use much at its price and stats. The VSDs are quite strong in comparison; I'd like to see the ISD get a tad more damage-per-shot on the ion cannons to help it be more of a capital ship and maybe some more shield HP- or just ratchet down the cost a good deal. Though, I'd like the ISD-I to still be a tough ship, especially in comparison to an VSD or Crimson Fleet VSD. Those things are probably scarier than ISD-Is in my opinion and they shouldn't quite be that good next to a ship that much larger, I don't think. Just my two cents, anyway.

Rebel Nebula-Class ships should be slightly better armed from a game design perspective, in my opinion. They're the only offensive New Class Program capital ship the rebels get- the Endurance is a carrier and not really much good at frontline combat. But I don't want to break canon either.

Crimson Fleet VSDs maybe could do with a slight shield regeneration reduction. They're a tad OP at this point. Though, they are a limited build item, so they can be a little OP. I gotta say they're a lot of fun to use...

I need some more experience with the other newer star destroyers before I comment.
Posted by: carpemark
« on: September 14, 2017, 10:55:59 AM »

i dont know how to explain it but the "size" of the Procursator seems off. I mean that when it tries to "path find" its way around it seems to lumber around like it needs the space of a full size star destroyer. It needs a lot of coaching to move to where you want it to go. Its to the point that I rarely ever build them because in the end they take too much hand holding to direct them in a battle. Yes I am the admiral and must direct them but it seems more the "bastard child" in its behavior. Hope that makes sense... :P
Posted by: MaxL_1023
« on: June 05, 2017, 10:15:39 PM »

That makes sense - I only had knowledge of the old stats. I rarely see the Maldrood AI use them though - they seem to spam Secutors more than anything else.
Posted by: Corey
« on: June 05, 2017, 07:40:45 PM »

Are you comparing the ingame files for the Procursator to the 2.1 manual for the VSD? Keep in mind, weapon systems were changed between 2.1 and 2.2 to reduce the overall number of pulses being shot.

 VSDI:
4 x 5 Dual Turbo HPs - 40 individual
2 x 3 Quad Turbo HPs - 24 shots
=64 total shots

Procursator:
7 x 5 Dual Turbo HPs - 70 individual

Its ion cannons did way less than they're supposed to in the demo, but even before that, they're already past the VSDI. The concussion missiles are considerable, but their damage type against ships doesn't do a huge amount, and how they function is (hopefully) being significantly changed in 2.2 anyways.
Posted by: MaxL_1023
« on: June 05, 2017, 07:24:28 PM »

So 7 batteries with 5 pulses each, for 70 turbolaser shots and ~20 ion shots per round? 40 if they are dual ion cannons.

Seems a little light - the VSD-I has 40 dual, 10 quad and the 72 missiles, so 120 turbolaser shots per round plus whatever the missiles are worth. Does it have significantly better shielding?

Posted by: kucsidave
« on: June 05, 2017, 04:45:35 PM »

The best description for it's treatment in game is that it's the Tectors for the VSDs
7 Dual Turbo Lasers and 3 Heavy Ion Cannons
Also it has no fighter escort, so watch out :)
Posted by: MaxL_1023
« on: June 05, 2017, 11:27:38 AM »

What is the armament of the Procursator anyways? It also looks slightly undersized to me - it should be about 1/3rd larger than a VSD. It looks to be almost the same size, unless there is just an illusion due to the shape.

Posted by: Corey
« on: June 05, 2017, 02:23:24 AM »

We don't intend to change weapon loadouts, as they're based proportionally on canon weapon loadouts, the exception being that we're trying to find a not-terrible way to handle assault concussion missiles to switch out for the universal type of concs the VSD currently uses.

Quote
plus boarding

Boarding will be handled by separate units if/when we get it working, so it won't be a capital ship ability.

Quote
carry 7 squadrons
Quote
Victory 1 has [...] 3 squdrons( 2TIE/LN, 1 TIE/SA)
Victory 2 has [...] 1 squadron(TIE/LN)

Sources pretty consistently refer to ISD Is/IIs carrying 72 fighters, which would actually be 6 squads. For pretty much every Imperial vessel though, specific fighter complements are also swapped around as eras change. The VSD complements are pretty consistently stated at 2 squadrons for each type. The difference between the I and II was primarily weapon systems and a few upgarded subsystems, but things like hangar layout and related details were likely not changed.


As for abilities, what you suggest for the ISDI would essentially just be a weaker power-to-weapons. There's not really a reason to focus just on the ion cannons (as opposed to focusing on it on something like, say the Carrack, where they were the major part of its armament), and if we were to try to help the ISDI out (though while overpriced, it's not as weak as some people seem to think), if we were to go that route, it would be better to give them the regular power to weapons ability. Also, as far as giving the Tector single-unit retreat, it'll be more rare for something not to have that ability than to have it. As we do abilities, we're trying to avoid just throwing around variations on the power to shields/engines/weapons stuff right away. The ISDI and ISDII were effectively intended to fill the same role, so while there's some differences in function, there's not much latitude there. The ISDII pretty much entirely supplanted the ISDI (it was designed to do so), and while it'll be a bit cheaper in build cost and upkeep and I guess in that case, an option for more cash-strapped players, they're effectively a unit that exists for lore purposes.

Quote
Procursator has little stronger shields, but more turbolasers than ion cannons. 2 TIE/IN squadrons. is a little slower

We have essentially treated the Procursator as the Tector to the VSDII's ISD. There's no indication on the design of any significant hangars (ie, anything usable to deploy fighters) beyond what you'd expect for typical command shuttle docks and whatnot


Posted by: the_trots
« on: June 05, 2017, 01:38:36 AM »

ISDI has better shield regen than ISDII but ya the "deuce" is better overall, as it should be.

Re, CCVSD is great ship.
Posted by: MaxL_1023
« on: June 05, 2017, 01:17:03 AM »

At the moment I don't see a reason to build an ISD-1. For 300 credits you get something like 50% more firepower, better shields and hull (albeit not by that much) and I believe better fighters as well, or at least basically the same complement.

The ISD-I has trouble competing with the VSD-I in ship to ship combat, let alone ISD-IIs.
Posted by: Mr.Puerto
« on: June 04, 2017, 08:15:00 PM »

Quote from: the_trots on June 04, 2017, 05:56:54 PM
Tector is already much more of a ship than the ISD.  Most underrated ship in the mod.   Hangered Imperial fighters are rubbish and are usually depleted after a couple minutes anyways.

The VSD's are fine as is.  Significant differences in their behaviors, and they don't really fill the same roles.  Probably the VSD1 gets more love, but the VSDII is surprisingly fast and maneuverable.  Even with the terrible pathfinding in the game you can park a VSDII in a very small space.  Great for flanking big fleets to take the heat off your ISD's or chasing ships that a Carrack/Strike Cruiser can't handle.

ISDI and ISDII currently do behave differently in battle, and I believe their respective costs are going to be adjusted for a larger price difference between them.
Gotta say the most underrated VSD is definitely the CCVSD those things put out a massive amount of damage and are good for filling a spot were a ISD isn't needed. Only down side is their build limit.
Posted by: the_trots
« on: June 04, 2017, 05:56:54 PM »

Tector is already much more of a ship than the ISD.  Most underrated ship in the mod.   Hangered Imperial fighters are rubbish and are usually depleted after a couple minutes anyways.

The VSD's are fine as is.  Significant differences in their behaviors, and they don't really fill the same roles.  Probably the VSD1 gets more love, but the VSDII is surprisingly fast and maneuverable.  Even with the terrible pathfinding in the game you can park a VSDII in a very small space.  Great for flanking big fleets to take the heat off your ISD's or chasing ships that a Carrack/Strike Cruiser can't handle.

ISDI and ISDII currently do behave differently in battle, and I believe their respective costs are going to be adjusted for a larger price difference between them.
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