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Topic Summary

Posted by: Pali
« on: February 06, 2016, 03:12:05 AM »

That said, it doesn't mean Pellaeon was wrong to order the retreat at Bilbringi - or at Endor.  History is full of examples of forces losing to much smaller ones due to breakdowns of discipline, order and leadership, and Pellaeon at least knew the situations to be beyond his ability to manage and called off the fight, saving his remaining forces.

P.S. Xizor, that was a thought of Corran's, not Wedge's, and it's possible Corran didn't know about the smugglers joining the fight, which would've changed the firepower balance somewhat.  That said, I do think the Imps probably still held a significant advantage in firepower, as the Essential Guide to Warfare gives Thrawn two dozen Star Destroyers, thirty Katana dreadnaughts, and numerous smaller ships against eleven Mon Cals, two Assault Frigates, a Star Destroyer and smaller ships - at least a two to one, perhaps three to one advantage in firepower at the start of the battle, and that advantage was likely not diminished much.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: February 06, 2016, 02:20:54 AM »

Bilbringi was far from lost as Thrawn still held a hideous edge in firepower and numbers. . Corran and Wedge state as much in Isard's Revenge.
"Thrawn may not like what we are doing in here but he has plenty of time and forces to deal with us...after he finishes off our fleet."
Also Thrawn was about to call in reinforcements iincluding Reaper to regain any loss in initiative.
Posted by: Pali
« on: February 06, 2016, 12:14:48 AM »

In fairness, it's hard to say that Bilbringi was already a losing battle for the Imps - it was more that what was intended to be a decisive, one-sided battle instead became an incredibly chaotic one beyond a stunned, hurt Pellaeon's ability to manage right as Thrawn was killed.  Thrawn had insisted to Pellaeon that it wasn't lost before he was killed, and Pellaeon's thoughts as he ordered the retreat were about the chaos of the situation, not that the Imps were actually now outgunned.  I tend to think that it was like being at Endor again for Pellaeon, another battle he had ordered the retreat from due to the chaos of the situation and a breakdown in leadership at a crucial moment, and at Endor the Imps still massively outgunned the Rebels even after the Death Star's destruction.
Posted by: Goldzeoranger
« on: February 05, 2016, 07:12:50 PM »

I did not say he was great yes he fail in some area but think about it play a game with of chess or go
Posted by: Vulcanus
« on: February 05, 2016, 05:30:01 PM »

Put it this way: Just before he was killed, Thrawn was about to lose a decisive fleet battle (and his main shipyards) simultaneously to losing the Mount Tantiss facility, both because he underestimated his opponents. Had Thrawn lived he would still have lost the war. And that being stabbed in the back thing? That was 100 % on him too.

I'll still take Stazi before Thrawn as a commander. That old Duros did more with fewer resources than Thrawn in a much more dangerous Galaxy and unlike Thrawn even managed to survive being stabbed in the back.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: February 05, 2016, 04:05:39 PM »

I think Thrawn was a visionary and certainly the most proficient commander in the Galactic history based on his ability. I do believe he was flawed though. He micromanaged too much and seldom if ever placed full trust in his subordinates. This led to those subordinates being left out of key planning and long term strategies so if Thrawn was lost the campaign would stall or reverse. He also took lots of territory but did not fortify any of it allowing for it to be lost again easily. He was also absolutely confident in his own ability to handle any event, which led him to drastically underestimate both his opponents and the damage C'baoth could do.
He also did not do an effective job at ensuring his Empire carried on without him evidenced by the EotH's dissolving and absorption by the Chiss Ascendancy whereas the Imperial Remnant continued to function well past it.
Posted by: Goldzeoranger
« on: February 05, 2016, 12:42:44 PM »

Here you can talk and chat about Thrawn him self and maybe just maybe we can understand the man and be as effective as he. I understand the art thing and it was great really if you read someone works or study there art you know them you know them personally and how they think. Plus thrawn would not waste man power or crew on SSD even tho i think the Executor would be not a waste but I do understand why he not wanted waste the supplys on them when you could just plump out a lot of ISD and cruiser frigates for the cost of one of SSD. But the Executor was not much of a waste and was a symbol for the fleet and she was.
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