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Topic Summary

Posted by: DemonKingDan
« on: May 23, 2018, 01:27:31 AM »

Actually the Dreadnaught is exactly the same for both NR and Empire and there has been no change to hull, shields or PtW on any of them since 2.1.  Comparing the two versions of the mod side by side the only change to the Dreadnaught is the proportional cut to projectile counts in common with every other unit.  Of course that doesn't mean it doesn't feel relatively weaker compared to other units as those have changed of been added between versions.

  I see now, still, It might because I play with the default Space Battle Speed.
  Also, I think I'll change my Ship suggestion. I change it to the Katana Fleet Dreadnoughts over the regular standard ones. With that Said, Katana Fleet Dreadnoughts had/have Stronger Shielding than that of the Standard Models (Enough to rival a VSD II) and had Heavier Weaponry. This makes them Better than Strike Cruisers AND VSD I's! Katana Dreadnoughts Reign Supreme in my Book!
Posted by: Zardnaar
« on: May 22, 2018, 06:15:41 PM »

So unlike SSD's, the Vicount still doesn't have any poppable engines. Is that an oversight or intentional?

 I have only built 1 of them and lost it in its 2nd or 3rd battle so did not notice.
Posted by: turtle225
« on: May 21, 2018, 04:08:38 PM »

So unlike SSD's, the Vicount still doesn't have any poppable engines. Is that an oversight or intentional?
Posted by: Zardnaar
« on: May 15, 2018, 12:30:21 PM »

I'm a bit curious about your 4/5 Tie Defender rating. Admittedly I have not used them and rarely see them against the AI but here's the thing. I just noticed that they are a 2 pop unit which sounds outrageous to me. Even if they are the best fighter in the game I don't think I could ever justify spending two pop points on one. I'll just bring two lancers if I need flak support or a carrack if I want more damage. Is it two pop because a fleet of 60 Defenders would break the game?

Also You mention that you don't like BACs because of bad experiences in From the Ground Up. When I play FtGU I'm in Era 2 as the NR which confuses me as to why there is a discrepancy there. When I play Remnant they are in era 2 as well, not 3 like it says.

 I just noticed the TIE Defender thing I think they got nerfed in the 2.3 update (2.1 perhaps?). They are now 2 pop and lost the boost weapons ability so yeah they are not that good any more.

 Preybirds just got alot better now. CC VSD's also got nerfed I don't think they launch fighters but I will have to double check that.

 I like BACs they are just squishy. I gavce them a 3.5 IIRC. I think I like Majestics better though way more durable and sometimes so many fighters is overkill. Less losses is always nice. Tweaked the ratings to account for the changes. CC VSD may lose a half point as well.

 Nope I was wrong CC VSD have a Preybird and TIE Interceptor.
Posted by: turtle225
« on: May 15, 2018, 11:05:39 AM »

I'm a bit curious about your 4/5 Tie Defender rating. Admittedly I have not used them and rarely see them against the AI but here's the thing. I just noticed that they are a 2 pop unit which sounds outrageous to me. Even if they are the best fighter in the game I don't think I could ever justify spending two pop points on one. I'll just bring two lancers if I need flak support or a carrack if I want more damage. Is it two pop because a fleet of 60 Defenders would break the game?

Also You mention that you don't like BACs because of bad experiences in From the Ground Up. When I play FtGU I'm in Era 2 as the NR which confuses me as to why there is a discrepancy there. When I play Remnant they are in era 2 as well, not 3 like it says.
Posted by: Zardnaar
« on: May 14, 2018, 09:08:53 AM »

This is far too harsh on ISDs 1 & 2. They have their flaws, but they get the job done, when you use them right. They work wonderfully in fleets with Praetors, Allegiances, Torpedo Spheres or Secutors. I've completed Endor Aftermath on Admiral as Eriadu, and I haven't lost a single ISD throughout the entire campaign. Just don't expect them to win battles on their own, always make sure that they have support (they themselves function best as support units for battlecruisers, imo), and micromanage pathfinding, so they don't turn their asses to the enemy. Trust me, it's all possible, and is much easier than it may seem.

its because almost every other capital ship in the 6 point slot is better than an ISD II IMHO. The only ship its better than is the ISD I.

 Its not terrible that is why I gave it 2.5 which is average. I have upgraded the GM ISD II to a 3 and the Zsinj version to a 3.5 as it launches TIE Raptors and those things are to good.

 BTW IR gets Tectors era 1 now, Alleginces era 2 and 3, Tector returns era 4 and 5.

 ISD II is quite good for Zjinj also due to a lack of better options like the Tectot (IR and EA) and the various 4 point cruisers and carriers the GM and PA get.

 Upgrading the Marauder to a 3.5, I was using them wrong before.

 Updates Marauder, ISD IIs, Lucrehulks, Quasarfires (Zsinj).

 
Posted by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus
« on: May 14, 2018, 05:16:31 AM »

Given his requisites, I'd definitely agree with the ISD-I ranking he gives.  They're not worth building.  They're not EXTREMELY cheaper than the ISD-II, but they are far inferior in combat.  And they have absolute garbage fighter/bomber complement.

It could easily be argued (IMO) that the IR ISD-II should get a 3 instead of 2.5, and the Zsinj a 3.5 instead of 3, but I personally wouldn't be willing to argue for higher than that.  Quite frankly, given their poor fighter complement for the IR, they're not fantastic.  They're adequate, but given their cost and fleet cost, they're certainly not anything better than average.  Their popularity in IR fleets is, IMO, more a reflection of the lack of anything truly better until you're quite rich than a reflection of the competency of the ship.  Zsinj is obviously superior given their fighter complement, but they're still only an average or very slightly above that ranking.

I wouldn't build ISD1s, of course, it's ISD2 all the way, or better yet Tectors, if it's Eriadu, or era 4-5 Remnant. But you usually get 3 or 4 ISD1s in your starting forces, also some of the heroes have them, and I wouldn't exactly say that they do horribly in battle, for my tactics, at least. I don't rely on fighter/bomber swarms, as I said (Maldrood is the exception to that, with ARC-170s, Skiprays and Scimitars, that's just too good to waste), so their compliment doesn't really bother me that much. And I give ISD1 props for their Ion cannon prowess, they're actually better at taking down shields than almost any other capital ship for Imperial factions. I see ISD2s (and ISD1s, by proxy) as a backbone of any Imperial fleet. And for me, someone who uses Star Destroyers, Battlecruisers and SSDs for their firepower, that's a backbone I'm happy with, because it always works for me. And I'm not a fighter/bomber guy, at all. I prefer killing them with lancers/raiders/IPVs/CR90s, etc. And I never play as the NR, where I think I'd have to use strikecraft, whether I like it or not, since it's that faction's primary strength.
Posted by: kucsidave
« on: May 14, 2018, 04:55:47 AM »

I would argue for the Victory I to be a 2.5 or even a 3. Those missiles are very effective against both frigates and fighters, the fighters they bring are still not terrible and they are much more multi role than the VSDII, which means if you don't want a specialist fleet but a generalist they are a much better choice than the VSD II.
They don't stand a chance against capitals as much as the VSD II, but they are not meant to be.
I myself use VSD Is more than VSD IIs, especially against the NR and EotH, who have much better fighters than I have, and instead of having to bring 6-7 dedicated anti-fighter ships, I only have to bring 2 if I have VSD Is instead of IIs, and therefore gain 4-5 pop I can use much better, like bring in extra strike cruisers instead, which I agree to be 5/5.
Posted by: tlmiller
« on: May 14, 2018, 12:45:07 AM »

This is far too harsh on ISDs 1 & 2. They have their flaws, but they get the job done, when you use them right. They work wonderfully in fleets with Praetors, Allegiances, Torpedo Spheres or Secutors. I've completed Endor Aftermath on Admiral as Eriadu, and I haven't lost a single ISD throughout the entire campaign. Just don't expect them to win battles on their own, always make sure that they have support (they themselves function best as support units for battlecruisers, imo), and micromanage pathfinding, so they don't turn their asses to the enemy. Trust me, it's all possible, and is much easier than it may seem.

Given his requisites, I'd definitely agree with the ISD-I ranking he gives.  They're not worth building.  They're not EXTREMELY cheaper than the ISD-II, but they are far inferior in combat.  And they have absolute garbage fighter/bomber complement.

It could easily be argued (IMO) that the IR ISD-II should get a 3 instead of 2.5, and the Zsinj a 3.5 instead of 3, but I personally wouldn't be willing to argue for higher than that.  Quite frankly, given their poor fighter complement for the IR, they're not fantastic.  They're adequate, but given their cost and fleet cost, they're certainly not anything better than average.  Their popularity in IR fleets is, IMO, more a reflection of the lack of anything truly better until you're quite rich than a reflection of the competency of the ship.  Zsinj is obviously superior given their fighter complement, but they're still only an average or very slightly above that ranking.
Posted by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus
« on: May 13, 2018, 06:28:43 AM »

This is far too harsh on ISDs 1 & 2. They have their flaws, but they get the job done, when you use them right. They work wonderfully in fleets with Praetors, Allegiances, Torpedo Spheres or Secutors. I've completed Endor Aftermath on Admiral as Eriadu, and I haven't lost a single ISD throughout the entire campaign. Just don't expect them to win battles on their own, always make sure that they have support (they themselves function best as support units for battlecruisers, imo), and micromanage pathfinding, so they don't turn their asses to the enemy. Trust me, it's all possible, and is much easier than it may seem.
Posted by: Zardnaar
« on: May 13, 2018, 01:30:10 AM »

Idk about blame, maybe thank you because you are totally right. I just think it is weird that the Corona is supposed to be an upgrade from the Nebulon but it has almost the exact same armament.

Yeah let me know what you think. Anyone else as well. I'm curious about what you guys think of the Marauder. It is a difficult to use ship but rewarding I think.

Context, the Corona is really really good, not as good as the Nebulon B perhaps but when you get it you can't build the Nebulon B.

 And E Wings are better than X-Wings. If they were available at the same time the Corona would be marked down.
Posted by: turtle225
« on: May 11, 2018, 01:24:52 PM »

You can blame me on this one but I thought that a 1-pop cap ship that spawn 2 E-Wing squadrons and 1 B-Wing squadron was way too powerful. Look like the dev team agreed as they changed it.

Idk about blame, maybe thank you because you are totally right. I just think it is weird that the Corona is supposed to be an upgrade from the Nebulon but it has almost the exact same armament.

Sacheen are a 1 pop, I have used a few of them to deal ok damage and they have the defender attached as well.

OK I might be wrong about the Marauder I'll test it more. I thought the Corona dealt marginally more fdamage than the Nebulon B. I'll tweak the rating.

Yeah let me know what you think. Anyone else as well. I'm curious about what you guys think of the Marauder. It is a difficult to use ship but rewarding I think.
Posted by: taupin121
« on: May 11, 2018, 05:09:58 AM »

Corona is fine as a carrier but since it costs 2 pop instead of one I would not put it at the same rank as the Nebulon which it ironically is supposed to replace.

You can blame me on this one but I thought that a 1-pop cap ship that spawn 2 E-Wing squadrons and 1 B-Wing squadron was way too powerful. Look like the dev team agreed as they changed it.
Posted by: Zardnaar
« on: May 10, 2018, 10:38:09 PM »

First I would like to make a point about the MC80A. When you say it only has 4 turbolasers that's very misleading. It has 4 hardpoints that shoot 5 pulses per burst so it effectively has 20 turbolasers.

As for ratings, I feel you have Corona, Sacheen, and Mc40 too high and Marauder too low.

Corona does not deal more damage than a Nebulon (they both suck at that). Both of them have 4 effective turbolasers. Corona has one ion cannon, just one. Corona has 10 laser cannons and nebulon has 12 so both are about half a corvette in flak support. Corona is fine as a carrier but since it costs 2 pop instead of one I would not put it at the same rank as the Nebulon which it ironically is supposed to replace.

Sacheen is ok but 3.5 seems too high of a rating for me. I would say more like 2.5. It is interesting that you say they deal good damage because they only have 5 turbolasers and 2 ion cannons and 4 laser cannons.

Mc40 is in an awkward place at 3 pop. With only 4 turbolasers and 10 missiles that take forever to recharge, they are pretty junk once shields are down. 10 ion cannons are nice but yeah, big damage problems after shields are gone. They are also really fragile unlike the other mon cal ships. These are worse than Vic-I's which makes sense since they are cheaper but 4 of these will lose to 3 Vic-I's handily. I still use them but not a whole lot, and I would say they are below average.

And now the Marauder which I think you really underestimate. The Marauder has two weaknesses, one is a shorter firing range which requires you to micromanage the unit or else it is likely to just sit there doing nothing. Two is that it is paper thin which is a bad combo with poor range. However, it is only 1 pop, carries an x-wing, and has 24 turbolasers. Yes, 24. That is more than an MC80A (no ion cannons but still). You say that Sacheens are decent in a wolfpack? Try sneaking a few marauders around and watch them wreck things. 24 turbolasers on a pop 1 unit is absolutely nuts. I usually bring 4-5 of these in my fleets and once the ai is wasting their time shooting my mon-cal whales you move the Marauders in. If this thing had 2100 range like everything else I would maybe give it 5/5. As it is though they are hard to use and are prone to dying so I would say 2.5 or 3. Ironically one of your best damaging ships in the early era NR.

 Sacheen are a 1 pop, I have used a few of them to deal ok damage and they have the defender attached as well.

OK I might be wrong about the Marauder I'll test it more. I thought the Corona dealt marginally more fdamage than the Nebulon B. I'll tweak the rating.
Posted by: turtle225
« on: May 10, 2018, 07:45:34 PM »

Sachen 3.5/5
 This thing costs one point and it comes with a defender fighter. Cheap spam unit if you want to bury the enemy in fighters, its also not that bad at dealing damage in a wolf pac since if you use them odds are you might have 6-12 of them. Very good in era 3, a bit weaker in era 4+ due to Coronas turning up. Originally appeared in Crackens Threat Dossier in the old D6 RPG. Role carrier.

Marauder Corvette 1/5
Why you would build this over an X Wing or E wing at over 3 times the price is beyond me. Avoid. Role fire support (weak)

MC 40A 3/5
 I thought this ship was pants because it costs 3 points and its not a strike cruiser. However it is very very good at chewing through shields due to Ion Cannons and Missiles and qualifies as a mon cal ship so you can build it cheap on Mon Calamari. Very useful in the early eras when you build mon call fleets that are two tanky to die. Comes with a free B-Wing. Role fire support.

Corona 5/5
 This ship replaces the Nebulon B frigate in Era 4 (I think). It seems to deal a bit more damage but it spits out 2 E-Wings instead of X-Wings and they are better. For the fleet points though you could have 2 Nebulon B and 4 X-Wings instead but you no longer have a choice and X-Wing spam is kinda boring anyway. Deals enough damage to mop up ships or have a crack at AI derp fleets that love charging past your front line. Originally appeared in Crackens Threat Dossier for the old D6 RPG (which I own). Role carrier.

MC 80 3/5
 The MC80 technically counts as a capital ship but costs 4 points like a cruiser. It deals an anaemic amount of damage as it only has 4 turbolasers and a couple of ion cannons but it can take a beating. And it carries a X,Y and A wing. Since most NR ships carry great fighters your lack of firepower mostly does''t matter. You can more or less copy the Imperial fleet template (4 ISDs, 5 VSD's etc) replacing ISDs with MC 80'b's. replace the VSDs with these and fill it out with a few MC80A's and Nebulon B's. Imperial and Warlord ships more or less run out of shields, the X-Wings clean up and your shields can soak the imperial damage all day long it seems. Have fun not losing any ships, that is what Bothan Assault cruisers are for. Role Capital/Cruiser.


First I would like to make a point about the MC80A. When you say it only has 4 turbolasers that's very misleading. It has 4 hardpoints that shoot 5 pulses per burst so it effectively has 20 turbolasers.

As for ratings, I feel you have Corona, Sacheen, and Mc40 too high and Marauder too low.

Corona does not deal more damage than a Nebulon (they both suck at that). Both of them have 4 effective turbolasers. Corona has one ion cannon, just one. Corona has 10 laser cannons and nebulon has 12 so both are about half a corvette in flak support. Corona is fine as a carrier but since it costs 2 pop instead of one I would not put it at the same rank as the Nebulon which it ironically is supposed to replace.

Sacheen is ok but 3.5 seems too high of a rating for me. I would say more like 2.5. It is interesting that you say they deal good damage because they only have 5 turbolasers and 2 ion cannons and 4 laser cannons.

Mc40 is in an awkward place at 3 pop. With only 4 turbolasers and 10 missiles that take forever to recharge, they are pretty junk once shields are down. 10 ion cannons are nice but yeah, big damage problems after shields are gone. They are also really fragile unlike the other mon cal ships. These are worse than Vic-I's which makes sense since they are cheaper but 4 of these will lose to 3 Vic-I's handily. I still use them but not a whole lot, and I would say they are below average.

And now the Marauder which I think you really underestimate. The Marauder has two weaknesses, one is a shorter firing range which requires you to micromanage the unit or else it is likely to just sit there doing nothing. Two is that it is paper thin which is a bad combo with poor range. However, it is only 1 pop, carries an x-wing, and has 24 turbolasers. Yes, 24. That is more than an MC80A (no ion cannons but still). You say that Sacheens are decent in a wolfpack? Try sneaking a few marauders around and watch them wreck things. 24 turbolasers on a pop 1 unit is absolutely nuts. I usually bring 4-5 of these in my fleets and once the ai is wasting their time shooting my mon-cal whales you move the Marauders in. If this thing had 2100 range like everything else I would maybe give it 5/5. As it is though they are hard to use and are prone to dying so I would say 2.5 or 3. Ironically one of your best damaging ships in the early era NR.
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