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Topic Summary

Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: November 01, 2017, 06:05:26 PM »

Epic Star Cards, the highest tier of Star Cards available at launch, have been removed from Crates. To help keep everyone on a level playing field, these Star Cards will primarily be available through crafting, with the exception of special Epic Star Cards available through pre-order, deluxe, and starter packs.
You'll need to reach a certain rank to craft upgraded Star Cards. You won't be able to buy a bunch of Crates, grind everything up into crafting materials, and immediately use them to get super powerful Star Cards. You can only upgrade the ability to craft higher tier Star Cards by ranking up through playing the game.
Weapons are locked behind specific milestones. While a select few will be found in Crates, the rest can only be attained by play. Want to unlock a new weapon for your Heavy? Play as a Heavy and you’ll gain access to the class’s new weapons.
Class-specific gear and items can be unlocked by playing as them. As you progress through your favorite class, you’ll hit milestones granting you class-specific Crates. These will include a mix of Star Cards and Crafting Parts to benefit your class’s development.
Really now? We still have one big problem
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-battlefront-2-deluxe-edition-and-pre-ord/1100-6449379/

You can pre-order to unlock weapons for free and get epic ability upgrades for characters. Just because some stuff has been removed doesn't fic the problem entirely. You can still exploit the system for a advantage by paying more.
Posted by: Guderian
« on: November 01, 2017, 04:34:56 AM »

I wonder if EA's Plan from the start was: Let's make it as Pay2Win as possible from the start so everyone complains and then we will row back a little bit, so it seems better but we will still earn shitloads of money, because with paid lootcrates you will still advance much faster. (Or rather have the ingredients to craft right away)
Posted by: Mr.Puerto
« on: October 31, 2017, 07:29:40 PM »

Epic Star Cards, the highest tier of Star Cards available at launch, have been removed from Crates. To help keep everyone on a level playing field, these Star Cards will primarily be available through crafting, with the exception of special Epic Star Cards available through pre-order, deluxe, and starter packs.
You'll need to reach a certain rank to craft upgraded Star Cards. You won't be able to buy a bunch of Crates, grind everything up into crafting materials, and immediately use them to get super powerful Star Cards. You can only upgrade the ability to craft higher tier Star Cards by ranking up through playing the game.
Weapons are locked behind specific milestones. While a select few will be found in Crates, the rest can only be attained by play. Want to unlock a new weapon for your Heavy? Play as a Heavy and you’ll gain access to the class’s new weapons.
Class-specific gear and items can be unlocked by playing as them. As you progress through your favorite class, you’ll hit milestones granting you class-specific Crates. These will include a mix of Star Cards and Crafting Parts to benefit your class’s development.
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: October 31, 2017, 05:42:28 PM »

doesn't mean its acceptable now...
They still have some guns locked in loot crates, their has not been a video explaining the new system to be fully understood, and they are still offering some gear in these crates so it is less pay-to-win.
Posted by: Slornie
« on: October 31, 2017, 03:05:02 PM »

Posted by: Pali
« on: October 16, 2017, 07:40:53 PM »

Your incorrect. You do get the characters, but you must first earn the credits in the game to buy them. It use to be before that season pass holders got chracters for free, but they change it so that now everyone has to progress to unlock them.

My source was an older article, so their policy may well have changed.  But isn't that kind of behavior a reason to avoid doomsaying?  Nothing stops EA from being able to look at how things are going a month or so into the game and change how progression is handled in a similar manner.

Quote
What is defined as OP? Are they saying that OP weapons and gear are going to be locked behind achievements that my take forever to complete. Also doesn't this undermine the whole point of having lootcrates? Someone here argue earlier that this helps gear up new players if they join in a month or so after, but this contradicts that. Also what if items that aren't considerd OP turn out OP? At this rate, make bring back Hutt Contracts.... Also what items that are in thhe unlock in achievements turn out to be completely useless? Also what are the requirements for these challenges going to be?

I linked to the article, you are welcome to read what details are within yourself.  There are no contradictions unless you are thinking in absolutes - just because lootcrates don't give the best doesn't mean they can't give better than you have, and some people will happily pay to get better than what they have so it's easier or more enjoyable to earn the best.  All of your balance concerns are issues that a) are speculative and b) can be reworked after launch as the game receives feedback.
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: October 16, 2017, 04:31:36 PM »

R6S's DLC policy is that you get the new maps and game modes for free, but you do NOT get the new characters and their new gadgets for free, and purchase of a season pass also increases your progression rate.
Your incorrect. You do get the characters, but you must first earn the credits in the game to buy them. It use to be before that season pass holders got chracters for free, but they change it so that now everyone has to progress to unlock them.

"The primary takeaway from the full explanation of the game's loot boxes is that the most powerful items in the game won't be coming from them. The most powerful items in the game will, instead, be unlocked through achievements, and only achievements. This means that it's not possibly to pay money to suddenly get the best items in the game, although it is still possible to pay money to get more items, that will possibly be better than the ones you have."
What is defined as OP? Are they saying that OP weapons and gear are going to be locked behind achievements that my take forever to complete. Also doesn't this undermine the whole point of having lootcrates? Someone here argue earlier that this helps gear up new players if they join in a month or so after, but this contradicts that. Also what if items that aren't considerd OP turn out OP? At this rate, make bring back Hutt Contracts.... Also what items that are in thhe unlock in achievements turn out to be completely useless? Also what are the requirements for these challenges going to be?
Posted by: Pali
« on: October 16, 2017, 03:27:38 PM »

That a lot of people on Reddit, Youtube and 4chan are pissed just means that EA hasn't gone out of business after a massive fire at their headquarters yet.  There will always be someone loud and pissed on the internet.  If EA had instead gone with just paid DLCs, then you'd be getting videos bitching about how the game is going to be released in an unfinished state, that all the DLCs should be included in the base game for the base price, etc.  Never trust that internet outrage is giving you a complete picture.

I'm not seeing any sources supporting the claim that unique lootboxes will be available for purchase that guarantee rewards.

"The primary takeaway from the full explanation of the game's loot boxes is that the most powerful items in the game won't be coming from them. The most powerful items in the game will, instead, be unlocked through achievements, and only achievements. This means that it's not possibly to pay money to suddenly get the best items in the game, although it is still possible to pay money to get more items, that will possibly be better than the ones you have."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gaming/news/star-wars-battlefront-2s-powerful-items-wont-appear-loot-boxes/

R6S's DLC policy is that you get the new maps and game modes for free, but you do NOT get the new characters and their new gadgets for free, and purchase of a season pass also increases your progression rate.
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: October 15, 2017, 03:45:30 PM »

Isn't the fact that the in-game rewards are based on team performance, rather than individual performance, a balancing action against your supposed "pay to win" issues?  Even if players dropping significant sums of real money into the game turn out to be as common as you're clearly expecting, once you take into account distribution across teams and shared winnings the impact on player progression is much reduced?

EDIT: As Mr Puerto said the more "traditional" DLC model used for the previous Battlefront, where each pack added new locales to play etc, split the player base hugely with each release which over time makes for a less resilient community.  This time with the purchasable perks EA are trying to keep the playerbase together by funding those new maps/DLC differently and offering the additional content freely to all.  In the grand scheme of things I think for a multiplayer-oriented game the latter is definitely a more sustainable approach.
The loot crate system IS the progression system. If you want anything(star cards, weapons, upgrades) you have 3 options
1. Get is randomly from a loot crate
2. Craft it using crafting parts(you only get crafting parts in loot crates, and it can from 10-20 CPs)
3. Purchase unique lootcrates that will be in the game's store. (some guarantee legendary star cards and gear)

quote author=Slornie link=topic=6998.msg67544#msg67544 date=1508082387]
Isn't the fact that the in-game rewards are based on team performance, rather than individual performance, a balancing action against your supposed "pay to win" issues?  .
[/quote]
How does that balance pay-to-win issues exactly? The only thing based on team performance is how many credits you earn per game. Everyone gets the same amount of credits and since most cost over 1000 credits you need to play on average 5-6 matches to get just 1/10 or 1/5 the credits needed.

EDIT: As Mr Puerto said the more "traditional" DLC model used for the previous Battlefront, where each pack added new locales to play etc, split the player base hugely with each release which over time makes for a less resilient community.  This time with the purchasable perks EA are trying to keep the playerbase together by funding those new maps/DLC differently and offering the additional content freely to all.  In the grand scheme of things I think for a multiplayer-oriented game the latter is definitely a more sustainable approach.
No this doesn't solve the problem of split communities, because now players want separate versions of multiplayer. Some players want gamemodes were star cards have flattened values while others don't. While your write season passes split up community there is a simple way around the problem make it like Rainbow 6 siege's season pass. The Rainbow 6 season pass worked like this: All future content is free, but players who have the season pass get early access, and exclusive cosmetic item. This way everyone gets the content, but people who paid a little more get first slice at the cake, but in the end everyone gets a piece.

"We also have heard some players are looking for a way to play where all players will have the same set of Star Cards with flattened values. Like everything else, we will be continually making necessary changes to ensure the game is fun for everyone. We will work to make sure the system is balanced both for players who want to earn everything, as well as for players who are short on time and would like to move faster in their progress towards various rewards."
Posted by: Slornie
« on: October 15, 2017, 11:46:27 AM »

I would fully support cosmetic only lootboxes, but not loot boxes that give weapons, gear, and currency.that is how it is. You would need to play about 6 matches in order to get enough credits to get a single loot crate, problem is in isn't tied to how well you do, its YOUR TEAM. so you can be the best and not get rewarded for hard work, or you can be lazy and just get free credits for no reason.
Isn't the fact that the in-game rewards are based on team performance, rather than individual performance, a balancing action against your supposed "pay to win" issues?  Even if players dropping significant sums of real money into the game turn out to be as common as you're clearly expecting, once you take into account distribution across teams and shared winnings the impact on player progression is much reduced?

EDIT: As Mr Puerto said the more "traditional" DLC model used for the previous Battlefront, where each pack added new locales to play etc, split the player base hugely with each release which over time makes for a less resilient community.  This time with the purchasable perks EA are trying to keep the playerbase together by funding those new maps/DLC differently and offering the additional content freely to all.  In the grand scheme of things I think for a multiplayer-oriented game the latter is definitely a more sustainable approach.
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: October 15, 2017, 08:31:36 AM »

Consider: should someone who only plays four hours a week be stuck with a permanent disadvantage against those who play 40?  Or should there be a way for them to catch up?  What about people who come into the game months or years after release, when most players would have unlocked their abilities through the time spent in-game?  For many more casual gamers this kind of thing is a major boon.  Again, there are pros and cons to any approach taken here, and someone is going to be left unhappy no matter what course is taken.
Considered this: Should someone who only plays four hours a week be given advantages just by paying money over someone who doesn't but plays more? Should a player who doesn't buy dlc be punish with a inherit disadvantage, because someone who doesn't play as much as they do can boost his character up the entire way to get weapons and star cards that are more powerful? Also if a person who only plays hours chooses not to buy this but other people, then aren't they screwed, because who just got the game like him already have half the weapons and star cards, because they bought it all with real money? While your right there will always be pros and cons, but if the cons affect the major of players then you always go with the option that doesn't affect the majority.

People asked for free DLC so the player base is split up, so we got lootboxes so that they can make the money to produce these free items. Nothing in life is free, so you have to pay for it one way or the other. Cosmetic DLC will probably not make enough money either, otherwise they would've gone that route instead. And here's the thing, if there was no market for this sort of thing, EA would never implemented it in the first place just because of the PR disaster these things bring about. Do you see people outraged about GTA's micro-transactions and how you can't do anything in the game unless you either get hacked and get tons of money, grind for all hours of the day or buy one shark card and make things easier. Of course, but what is the result of the outrage? Shark Cards for GTA 5 has made literally Billions in revenue, and on top of the fact that GTA 5 is still the number one selling game in alot of countries. The system works and only a small minority of people are outraged compared to the huge audience the causal games appeal to. I'm not defending it at all. This is just the way things are, and have been.

Cosmetic lootcrate systems, and cosmetic micro transactions have been making more money then most other systems. Need proof? Look at Overwatch, CSGO, Battlefield 1, Call of duty(back when it ran those cosmetic camo packs), Playerunkown battlegrounds, etc. Don't get me wrong if BF2 was a free-to-play then I would understand, but it isn't. BF2 is a $60 AAA game, and there are other ways to make money clearly. listen here is how we fix the problem: Pull all weapons, star cards, and non-cosmetic stuff off the store. Then people are more likely to purchase these cosmetic packs because its about making there solider look cool, and not some game-breaking gear you get out of them. And GTA 5 is a poor example because, that isn't a lootcrate system, and It doesn't affect how you play in competitive modes like death match, races, and other game modes, it only affects the open world, which doesn't really affect anyone since most people don't need to pay-to-win, and rarely are near each other. Players also don't need shark cards because you can earn that money rather easily. The reason why BF2 is worse, is because its a slow painful progression just to get one crate, and I can just buy a couple crates and still get a star card guarantee if I choose the right pack.

The system works and only a small minority of people are outraged compared to the huge audience the causal games appeal to. I'm not defending it at all. This is just the way things are, and have been.
Really? I mean look on YouTube, look at Reddit, look at 4chan, its clear that a lot of players are upset. it got so much attention that EA had to respond. And No this isn't how the system was and always has been, the original system was:
1. You buy a game(usually $60)
2. Later down the line(maybe about a 3-4 months) dlc would either be announce or release.

The problem is so many companies tried to push $60 season passes, which is Bullshit since the dlc isn't, really worthy that much. Companies finally realize this and change that could be good if implemented right, but most are poorly implementing it.
Games like Overwatch have lootcrates, but they are cosmetic only
Other games that like even EA's own Battlefield 1 have cosmetic only lootcrates.
Posted by: Mr.Puerto
« on: October 15, 2017, 03:27:00 AM »

As for EA massively ramping up credit costs down the line, that is speculation - if they do it at the time it may well be condemnable, but condemning them before they've done it isn't something I'm willing to do.
They have stated that the credit earning was capped during the beta. No one's know's how its going to be changed expect for the personalities that they are using to play test some features.

Onto something else

Here's the thing AAA games now cost alot of money to produce, we are talking movie level size budget and crew which is absolutely insane. If a company wants to make any sort of meaningful profit from the game, they have to include things like DLC or micro transactions. The initial release of the game and how much money it makes in that time means absolutely nothing in terms of profit, unless you have a game like GTA 5, which doesn't happen. Games are needed to be huge hits in order to break even. DLC and micro-transactions are introduced in order to produce profit so they can put it back into the game, or use the money on other projects. That's the nature of AAA video games, no matter what people say about it.

People asked for free DLC so the player base is split up, so we got lootboxes so that they can make the money to produce these free items. Nothing in life is free, so you have to pay for it one way or the other. Cosmetic DLC will probably not make enough money either, otherwise they would've gone that route instead. And here's the thing, if there was no market for this sort of thing, EA would never implemented it in the first place just because of the PR disaster these things bring about. Do you see people outraged about GTA's micro-transactions and how you can't do anything in the game unless you either get hacked and get tons of money, grind for all hours of the day or buy one shark card and make things easier. Of course, but what is the result of the outrage? Shark Cards for GTA 5 has made literally Billions in revenue, and on top of the fact that GTA 5 is still the number one selling game in alot of countries. The system works and only a small minority of people are outraged compared to the huge audience the causal games appeal to. I'm not defending it at all. This is just the way things are, and have been.
Posted by: Pali
« on: October 15, 2017, 12:30:54 AM »

How long does taking to get access to content for "free" still count as free? Month, two months, year? EA could entirely reduce credits to almost nil or inflate credit prices and make lootboxes only primarily gotten with payments.

The vast majority of content - levels, game modes, DLC levels, and base classes and heroes - are what I was referring to.  Yes, getting all the cards will cost, in either time or money.  If you aren't willing to invest one, you'll be at a disadvantage against those who do.  At least this way someone who plays a few hours a week has the option of keeping up with those who play a few dozen hours a week by investing cash rather than playtime - and those who invest neither will be at no less of a disadvantage regardless of whether their opponent has sunk money or time in. 

Consider: should someone who only plays four hours a week be stuck with a permanent disadvantage against those who play 40?  Or should there be a way for them to catch up?  What about people who come into the game months or years after release, when most players would have unlocked their abilities through the time spent in-game?  For many more casual gamers this kind of thing is a major boon.  Again, there are pros and cons to any approach taken here, and someone is going to be left unhappy no matter what course is taken.

As for EA massively ramping up credit costs down the line, that is speculation - if they do it at the time it may well be condemnable, but condemning them before they've done it isn't something I'm willing to do.
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: October 14, 2017, 11:14:50 PM »

Thats their official statement. Lootboxes are never guaranteed good items there are literally thousands of videos showcasing this. And yes lootboxes are not a progression system either.

A player can pay to get tons of lootboxes sure, but at the end of it they could get mediocre things simply due to luck.
Then why is it being advertise as a progression system? You have to gamble and grind for weapons, gear, and star cards.

While it is true lootboxes are never guaranteeing you anything, that doesn't mean it is not a pay to win system. A player can pay for tons of lootboxes and they statistically have a advantage because there chances of getting more useful gear faster is increased.

example: If I buy 24 lootboxes(for no reason) it doesn't matter if I get crap, I can still get scrap which is only obtain by lootcrates to purchase elite weapons and gear. It doesn't matter if certain people luck is different, you can still get a advantage no matter what.

We should not be defending these kinds of practices, unless they are cosmetic only. I would fully support cosmetic only lootboxes, but not loot boxes that give weapons, gear, and currency.
If lootboxes aren't pay to win because of the lack of guarantees, then they aren't a progression system either.

How long does taking to get access to content for "free" still count as free? Month, two months, year? EA could entirely reduce credits to almost nil or inflate credit prices and make lootboxes only primarily gotten with payments.
that is how it is. You would need to play about 6 matches in order to get enough credits to get a single loot crate, problem is in isn't tied to how well you do, its YOUR TEAM. so you can be the best and not get rewarded for hard work, or you can be lazy and just get free credits for no reason.



watch the full videos and you will see why this is really bad.

Posted by: Mr.Puerto
« on: October 14, 2017, 05:40:08 PM »

We know you have a lot of questions about Crates and progression, so we want to clarify a few things, as the complete system was not in the Beta and will continue to be tuned over time:

There are many things you can earn in the game, including weapons, attachments, credits, Star Cards, Emotes, Outfits and Victory Poses.

As a balance goal, we’re working towards having the most powerful items in the game only earnable via in-game achievements.

Crates will include a mix of of Star Cards, Outfits, Emotes or Victory Poses.

Players earn crates by completing challenges and other gameplay milestones, or by purchasing them with in-game credits or Crystals, our premium currency.

If you get a duplicate Star Card in a crate, you will get crafting parts which you can then use to help upgrade the Star Card of your choice.

And lastly, you have to earn the right to be able to upgrade Star Cards and unlock most Weapons. You can only upgrade or unlock them if you have reached a high enough rank, which is determined by playing the game.




Thats their official statement. Lootboxes are never guaranteed good items there are literally thousands of videos showcasing this. And yes lootboxes are not a progression system either.

A player can pay to get tons of lootboxes sure, but at the end of it they could get mediocre things simply due to luck.
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