Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 13, 2017, 08:32:06 PM »thank you
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: January 13, 2017, 11:50:50 AM »which, that, coupled with the fact the Kurita believed that he was engaging the main battle fleet then learning he's wrong and that superior battleships of the USN are on their way, he called a full retreat and steamed back the way they came as fast as they could. but yes, with the invention of the airplane, the age of battleships/battlewagons was over, and the same concept was carried into star wars, thus. look blowing the the DS reactor with 2 proton torpedoes, Calrissian flying into DS2.0, battles for Eclipse, Fondor, Dathomir, so many others. aircraft, because of their mobility, can hit things capital ships can't. thus, why after the battle of Yuuzhan'atar, no more SSDs ever entered production. the Viscounts, like the Iowas, were the last of the age
A flawless analogy
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 13, 2017, 09:09:49 AM »which, that, coupled with the fact the Kurita believed that he was engaging the main battle fleet then learning he's wrong and that superior battleships of the USN are on their way, he called a full retreat and steamed back the way they came as fast as they could. but yes, with the invention of the airplane, the age of battleships/battlewagons was over, and the same concept was carried into star wars, thus. look blowing the the DS reactor with 2 proton torpedoes, Calrissian flying into DS2.0, battles for Eclipse, Fondor, Dathomir, so many others. aircraft, because of their mobility, can hit things capital ships can't. thus, why after the battle of Yuuzhan'atar, no more SSDs ever entered production. the Viscounts, like the Iowas, were the last of the age
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: January 13, 2017, 04:01:56 AM »As much as I love watching the RotJ i hate watching the final fleet battle where the Empire loses to a handful of MC80 Liberties, and a suicide attack by an A wing. Or the emporer's Galaxy gun, it makes me frustrated that i can't see what these ships can actually do. The authors just can't find a reasonable method for the NR actually be able to take care of those ships so they make up some absurd method.
They do develop tactics and weaponry to deal with ISDs and SSD. Proton Torpedoes, Cluster bombs and Ion Charge warheads employed by small hard to hit snubfighters using TRD or mass salvos. In a similar manner to how a small plane can carry a torpedo and sink a massive battleship. Plus you have to realize that while the ISD is a great ship and the Empire has been 'fighting' the rebellion for five years by the time of Endor, they have mostly CHASED the rebels and had very few stand up battles, same with a lot of the rest of the galaxy. Most Imperial crews while heavily trained were seldom battle hardened and completely reliant on the effects of the Emperor's battle meditation and will. When he died along with Declann it was like tying to fight while drunk and exhausted without really having any desire to be there. Then you have the loss of the Executor, Lando's insane point blank tactics and the standing orders to just maintain the blockade, the Death Star's destruction, Takel and Makati fleeing, Teshik taking command, while Pellaeon's ship is also designated as command ship after losses and you get a force that while numerically superior is shattered, confused, and unable to cope or adjust while the rebels morale is at it's peak, they seem unstoppable and they all ARE combat veterans of many battles with a command structure that is not only INTACT but THRIVES on improvisation.
For an example of how a smaller naval force can utterly maul a larger, better armed and better 'trained' force look at the Battle off Samar in WWII where 3 USN Destroyers, 4 Destroyer Escorts and 6 escort carriers badly damaged and then repelled a Japanese force of 4 Battleships(including the largest Battleship ever built the Yamato), 6 Heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers and 11 destroyers that had achieved complete surprise against the USN forces with their arrival.
The USN forces launched an insane attack and crippled 2 heavy cruisers and set two other heavy cruisers on fire with a torpedo attack making Yamato disengage from the battle while the planes strafed the japanese ships. The USN fought so fiercely and used seemingly insane attacks on the larger IJN force so much that the japanese disengaged and retreated.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 12, 2017, 01:54:35 PM »but they did. it's called the proton torpedo
Posted by: SentrY
« on: January 12, 2017, 08:39:32 AM »As much as I love watching the RotJ i hate watching the final fleet battle where the Empire loses to a handful of MC80 Liberties, and a suicide attack by an A wing. Or the emporer's Galaxy gun, it makes me frustrated that i can't see what these ships can actually do. The authors just can't find a reasonable method for the NR actually be able to take care of those ships so they make up some absurd method.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: January 09, 2017, 11:30:55 PM »i'm still disappointed Razor's kiss went down at Kuat and Reaper in 13 ABY. if Thrawn had Razor's Kiss and Pellaeon hadn't lost reaper, than the galaxy might still have been imperial, in either timeline, RK or Reaper. under their respective commanders
While Razor's kiss died too soon, it is what happens when a still unfinished uncrewed SSD with blown shields and no fighters is set upon by perhaps the most skilled capital ship destroyers in SWs.
I also disagree with your assessment of Reaper's loss being a large factor in the IR's loss of territory, it was due to Gettelles weakness and the Moffs misguided ambition that the NR were able to roll in and Pellaeon's skillful fighting retreat salvaged the situation for the IR halting the NR advance by Etahn A'bhett one of the better commanders in the NR with a massive numerical superiority. Pellaeon sacrificed Reaper to halt the advance and preserve the rest of his fleet. This was after decisively sending Antilles packing from Orinda with Reaper. There is a difference in wasting a ship and spending a ship. Holding onto Reaper would not have changed the strategic outcome of the next two years. The IR was still outgunned at this point by a ratio of 3 to 1 in ships, material and manpower. The moff council would still pressure Pellaeon into that foolish last attack on the NR that would lose them nearly all their territory and leave the IR with only it's 8 sectors at which point the Reaper would likely be more of a burden on the IR due to her massive upkeep maintenance wise with the IRs one shipyard unable to keep up with regular ISDs.
Thrawn also would not use an SSD as he felt them excessive.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 09, 2017, 10:01:09 PM »find a useful purpose, but not build another? that makes sense
Posted by: Revanchist
« on: January 09, 2017, 05:19:42 PM »I imagine Thrawn would have found a use for an Executor if he had access to one, even if only as a fleet in being to tie up New Republic forces in the same way the British Navy was forced to mark the Tirpitz during WW2.
Exactly. Thrawn was certainly not a fan of SSDs, but if one plopped into his lap he most certainly would find an innovative use for it.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 09, 2017, 04:52:06 PM »that's what i would have done, had i had reaper, lusankya or night hammer. 1 massive carrier with THOUSANDS of super advanced aircraft, which would destroy enemy fleets even faster than Eclipse, since with thousands of aircraft, you don't have to wait for a super-laser to recharge. plus all the proton torpedoes, concussion missiles, SPHA/T lasers, turbolasers, and heavy turbolasers added to the ship. rely on other to occupy places' i'm for conquering stuff and wrecking fleets. at least, my flagship would be
Posted by: Slornie
« on: January 09, 2017, 04:49:30 PM »Thrawn would've never used the Razor's kiss because he hated the Concept of SSDs. He probably would've used it as a mobile base, salvaged it for credits for production of more SDs, or as a command ship for a defense fleet at an important world. Or use the size of it for some crazy Tactical plan.I imagine Thrawn would have found a use for an Executor if he had access to one, even if only as a fleet in being to tie up New Republic forces in the same way the British Navy was forced to mark the Tirpitz during WW2.
Posted by: Mr.Puerto
« on: January 09, 2017, 04:24:26 PM »I personally think that they were misused along with what sort of fighters they used.If I were in charge of the IR I would ask them to modify my flagship into more of a carrier role than it already is and put advance fighters and bombers on it. Preferably TIE/Ds or something better than a TIE fighter/ Bomber. Though it would give up most of its ground support capabilities and maybe a small percentage of firepower. I would be able to beat the Rebels at their own game. Of course it would be escorted with a fleet but that would be a different topic.
Posted by: Mr.Puerto
« on: January 09, 2017, 04:08:14 PM »now this is good info. and sparks the conversation i wanted to happen. and actually, your right about it being a mixed bag. certainly not useless, not all ways usefull, multiple times misused. i'm still disappointed Razor's kiss went down at Kuat and Reaper in 13 ABY. if Thrawn had Razor's Kiss and Pellaeon hadn't lost reaper, than the galaxy might still have been imperial, in either timeline, RK or Reaper. under their respective commandersThrawn would've never used the Razor's kiss because he hated the Concept of SSDs. He probably would've used it as a mobile base, salvaged it for credits for production of more SDs, or as a command ship for a defense fleet at an important world. Or use the size of it for some crazy Tactical plan.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 09, 2017, 04:04:58 PM »now this is good info. and sparks the conversation i wanted to happen. and actually, your right about it being a mixed bag. certainly not useless, not all ways usefull, multiple times misused. i'm still disappointed Razor's kiss went down at Kuat and Reaper in 13 ABY. if Thrawn had Razor's Kiss and Pellaeon hadn't lost reaper, than the galaxy might still have been imperial, in either timeline, RK or Reaper. under their respective commanders
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: January 09, 2017, 02:00:57 PM »while all this is good gameplay info, I was meaning the legends/canon star wars timeline, so I was think: was the SSDs of the empire/splinter factions useful, Wasteful(though NOT as much as the death stars{shudder}), or just misused, like they were useful but stupid people made mistakes with them (Daala, I'm looking straight at you)
It really depends on the SSD in question. Iron Fist, Lusankya, Reaper and Executor all saw heavy action over long and relatively productive careers. Executor was vaders flagship and front line for hunting the rebels from Yaven to Endor. Lusankya served as a deterent to the NR interference in Thyferra, fought the Reaper in Orinda campaign, crushed the Crimson Empire and went on to play an absolutely vital part in the defense of Borleias in the Vong War.Iron Fist interdicted Dathomir, crushed the Drakmor Warlords, and was used to devastating effect by Warlord Zsinj until it's destruction in 8 ABY. Reaper led Kaine's charge into the core during Shadow Hand, defeated the NR push on Orinda and then with it's sacrifice stopped another mass NR assault through Gettelles holdings. Guardian had a successful early run before it was heavily damaged and then went on to defeat the IR at Anx Minor and to fight in the battle of Mon Calamari in the Vong War.
Megador and Dominion were both used to great effect against the NR through the Orinda campaign and later while defeated survived Anx Minor and through the Vong War. Eclipse I laid waste to some worlds and fought an NR fleet to a standstill before it was destroyed.
Then you have many of the others that were destroyed or marginalized before they really got going or through plot bunnies so it's really a mixed bag. I don't feel they were a waste of resources, but I do feel the high command wasted a lot of their opportunities to really use such ships to their true potential.