Posted by: turtle225
« on: September 22, 2016, 02:57:34 PM »Thanks, I'll pick up Courtship after I finish the X-Wing series. I'm going to need more books to read anyway.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: September 18, 2016, 02:43:18 AM »However it doesn't really do Zsinj's character justice IMO. Which makes sense considering I believe Courtship was written first and the Rogue/Wraith novels picked him up and expanded on him.
Yes Courtship was first and Zsinj was just brought up as someone who had crossed han as an enemy for a long period of time and was former Imperial. That was really all they needed at the time as the main focus was on Gethzerion and the situation on Dathomir itself as well as the interactions of Han, isolder, leia, Tenial Ka and such.
For the purpose of the book Zsinj is very much a secondary antagonist- in spite of being massively more powerful than the force witches with his ships and control of 1/3 of the galaxy more or less.
his character was expanded upon(as was Melvar's) in the following Wraith and Rogue series to fill in the gaps giving us the jolly yet manic genius we know and love today.
Also on parts that make the book worthwhile, the retort Han gives to Luke when they finally see each other again on Dathomir and Luke demands to know how Han could do what he has done is PRICELESS.
Posted by: Revanchist
« on: September 17, 2016, 05:07:23 PM »An entertaining read indeed (Xizer is right, Dathomir is pretty well done, much better than those hacks at Lucasarts turned it into), though with many glaring inconsistencies. Worth it entirely for the Han Solo song if nothing else. However it doesn't really do Zsinj's character justice IMO. Which makes sense considering I believe Courtship was written first and the Rogue/Wraith novels picked him up and expanded on him.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: September 17, 2016, 02:17:59 PM »I get what you mean about Zsinj and I have to agree. He is certainly a more interesting character. Maybe Isard will become more interesting during book 8 but from her first appearance she seems about the same. We'll see. It's too bad that Zsinj's story is continued in the Courtship of Leia book. Is that worth a read?
Yes, it's entertaining and really hits it's stride on Dathomir
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: September 11, 2016, 02:33:21 PM »I would say to read all of them. But if you are going to pick and choose than I would say the Wraith books are better (Wraith Squadron, Iron Fist, Solo Command). However, those books do spoil events that happened in books 1-4 so if spoilers and or continuity bother you then definitely start with the Rogue books even if you don't intend to read the whole series.Iron fist has zisnj cause I will read those.
Posted by: turtle225
« on: September 11, 2016, 11:02:47 AM »I have not read either which should I read?
I would say to read all of them. But if you are going to pick and choose than I would say the Wraith books are better (Wraith Squadron, Iron Fist, Solo Command). However, those books do spoil events that happened in books 1-4 so if spoilers and or continuity bother you then definitely start with the Rogue books even if you don't intend to read the whole series.
Posted by: Illidan Stormrage
« on: September 09, 2016, 08:01:20 PM »I have not read either which should I read?
Posted by: turtle225
« on: August 27, 2016, 11:29:13 PM »I get what you mean about Zsinj and I have to agree. He is certainly a more interesting character. Maybe Isard will become more interesting during book 8 but from her first appearance she seems about the same. We'll see. It's too bad that Zsinj's story is continued in the Courtship of Leia book. Is that worth a read?
I really like when stories have shifting character perspective (This series, Zahn's books) rather than single character perspective (Hunger Games, Harry Potter iirc). Even better when stories don't have an obvious main character. I'd say that Wedge is the main character of the series but that Corran is the main in 1-4. Kell in 5. Face in 6. Lara (or Donos) in 7. But that the fact that you can make arguments for different characters even if it's just Wedge vs. Somebody in each book is really cool.
I really like when stories have shifting character perspective (This series, Zahn's books) rather than single character perspective (Hunger Games, Harry Potter iirc). Even better when stories don't have an obvious main character. I'd say that Wedge is the main character of the series but that Corran is the main in 1-4. Kell in 5. Face in 6. Lara (or Donos) in 7. But that the fact that you can make arguments for different characters even if it's just Wedge vs. Somebody in each book is really cool.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: August 26, 2016, 07:10:13 PM »I'd say the Wraith books do feel slightly more developed. The characters have more flaws and growth as opposed to say the singular focus on Corran's character development in the Rogue books.
Also Zsinj is vastly superior to Isard in terms of interest and variety. Isard comes across as just evil because...evil, but Zsinj feels more human and also his quirks and interactions with both friend and enemy are an absolute delight.
You get the feeling of there being multiple characters that could be the "Main" you have POVs from Lara, Donos, Face, Kell as well as Wedge and the Rogues
Also Zsinj is vastly superior to Isard in terms of interest and variety. Isard comes across as just evil because...evil, but Zsinj feels more human and also his quirks and interactions with both friend and enemy are an absolute delight.
You get the feeling of there being multiple characters that could be the "Main" you have POVs from Lara, Donos, Face, Kell as well as Wedge and the Rogues
Posted by: turtle225
« on: August 26, 2016, 12:43:33 PM »SPOILER WARNING: This thread contains spoilers for the X-Wing series books 1-7. (Spoiler free TL/DR at the end).
My last post on this section of the forum was a bit of a rant/head scratcher about some of what happened in the Rogue squadron books. After finishing the Wraith squadron trilogy I have to say that I like it a lot more. I think the main reason is that I like Allston's writing style better than Stackpole's but I'll also go into some of the details of why I like the books better, and it is mainly the characters.
Characters: This is in my opinion by far what the Wraith squadron books do so much better. Rogue squadron focuses way too much on Corran and Wedge and most of the squadron doesn't really get a lot of page time. Mirax and Iella get a fair amount of attention which is good at least. But Wraith squadron does a much better job of developing each member of the squadron which also makes the death scenes more meaningful. I'm not even lying that I got teary eyed when Phanan died, I thought that scene was written beautifully. But when compared to Rogue squadron, I had to look at the Dramatis Personae just to remember who Peshk was. Riv Shiel bites it later but he didn't really get any development either. For the Wraiths, maybe Grinder was just some prankster and maybe Falynn was just someone with self confidence issues, but either way they each got several scenes just to themselves which is something Riv or Peshk never got.
There is some development in Rogue squadron, Nawara is probably the best example. Gavin and Asyr get some. Some others as well but the point is that when compared to the Wraiths it just feels so much less. Kell and Tyria get a major focus in book 5 though sadly take a back seat in the other books. Face, Donos, and Lara probably get the most attention. There are some who get a bit neglected like Shalla, Ellesar and the Twilek whose name escapes me but overall the wraiths are individually so much more fleshed out. I love how many of them have psychological issues that they have to work through and that many of them show clear development through the cycles of the books. Rather than the Wedge and Corran show it felt like the Wraiths show and that worked so much better for me.
Villains: I can't say I have a strong opinion of Zsinj or Isard. I guess Zsinj is a bit more interesting to watch since his personality has a bit more dimensions to it than Isard's does. But like I said it doesn't make much of a difference to me as far as the books go. Maybe you guys have stronger opinions here?
The Battles: I feel like the Wraith's battles were a bit more realistic though my suspension of disbelief was still tested at times (no deaths at the research lab is a good example). But I liked the more fleet oriented battles of the Wraith's rather than X-Wings trump all nature of the Rogues. Though I have to admit these books made me question why the bridge and shield generators are so vulnerable on capital ships that surprise single fighter attacks can just casually destroy them.
I guess those are the only areas I will highlight for now. A lot of it has to do with writing style really, but there is some main points worth noting. I really can't stress enough how much better I think the characters were in Wraith than in Rogue. I'd love to hear others' opinions on the topic. Thanks for reading.
TL/DR: The Wraith books are better due to much better character/squadron development and more realistic/interesting battle scenes.
My last post on this section of the forum was a bit of a rant/head scratcher about some of what happened in the Rogue squadron books. After finishing the Wraith squadron trilogy I have to say that I like it a lot more. I think the main reason is that I like Allston's writing style better than Stackpole's but I'll also go into some of the details of why I like the books better, and it is mainly the characters.
Characters: This is in my opinion by far what the Wraith squadron books do so much better. Rogue squadron focuses way too much on Corran and Wedge and most of the squadron doesn't really get a lot of page time. Mirax and Iella get a fair amount of attention which is good at least. But Wraith squadron does a much better job of developing each member of the squadron which also makes the death scenes more meaningful. I'm not even lying that I got teary eyed when Phanan died, I thought that scene was written beautifully. But when compared to Rogue squadron, I had to look at the Dramatis Personae just to remember who Peshk was. Riv Shiel bites it later but he didn't really get any development either. For the Wraiths, maybe Grinder was just some prankster and maybe Falynn was just someone with self confidence issues, but either way they each got several scenes just to themselves which is something Riv or Peshk never got.
There is some development in Rogue squadron, Nawara is probably the best example. Gavin and Asyr get some. Some others as well but the point is that when compared to the Wraiths it just feels so much less. Kell and Tyria get a major focus in book 5 though sadly take a back seat in the other books. Face, Donos, and Lara probably get the most attention. There are some who get a bit neglected like Shalla, Ellesar and the Twilek whose name escapes me but overall the wraiths are individually so much more fleshed out. I love how many of them have psychological issues that they have to work through and that many of them show clear development through the cycles of the books. Rather than the Wedge and Corran show it felt like the Wraiths show and that worked so much better for me.
Villains: I can't say I have a strong opinion of Zsinj or Isard. I guess Zsinj is a bit more interesting to watch since his personality has a bit more dimensions to it than Isard's does. But like I said it doesn't make much of a difference to me as far as the books go. Maybe you guys have stronger opinions here?
The Battles: I feel like the Wraith's battles were a bit more realistic though my suspension of disbelief was still tested at times (no deaths at the research lab is a good example). But I liked the more fleet oriented battles of the Wraith's rather than X-Wings trump all nature of the Rogues. Though I have to admit these books made me question why the bridge and shield generators are so vulnerable on capital ships that surprise single fighter attacks can just casually destroy them.
I guess those are the only areas I will highlight for now. A lot of it has to do with writing style really, but there is some main points worth noting. I really can't stress enough how much better I think the characters were in Wraith than in Rogue. I'd love to hear others' opinions on the topic. Thanks for reading.
TL/DR: The Wraith books are better due to much better character/squadron development and more realistic/interesting battle scenes.