Posted by: Caesars_Legion
« on: July 26, 2016, 06:48:30 AM »Right, had an opportunity to read through all of it now. 
1. Leave Campaign Arguments:
A) The EU is Undemocratic. False. The European Union is not Undemocratic, for one it has the European Parliament which every member state elects to. A country like Croatia arguing it is Undemocratic makes sense, as it has far fewer representatives than Germany, France, and the UK. The UK has the third highest number of MEP's in the EU, affording over 10% of the vote in the parliament. 10% to one country out of 27 states is a rather in our favour is it not? Furthermore, the argument that the European Commission is unelected is also garbage. They are indirectly elected through the Parliament we do elect, much like the way the Electoral College functions in the US when choosing a President.
B) We can still trade within the Single Market like Switzerland or Norway. True, but contradictory. The bulk of the premise of the Vote Leave argument was "We must control Immigration" (Take a look at Mr. Farage's lovely billboard), whilst also saying that we could remain in the single market. If we were to remain within the Single Market, it is a simple truth that we must sign up to the free movements of people (Like Norway and Switzerland), whilst simultaneously losing our representation, say, and influence of EU legislation. Therefore it doesn't make sense to leave then sign up the single market outside of the legislature.
C) We can trade with nations outside the European Union! Look at all these unexploited markets!. True, but a logistical nightmare. The UK's Civil Service has suffered massive cutbacks and redundancies over the past 6 years thanks to Conservative Austerity. To negotiate a trade deal (Which usually take anywhere between 2-10 years) with upwards of 20+ countries simultaneously is logistically impossible given the current state of the Civil Service. Trade won't suddenly appear "Oh it'll be okay in a few years". I'd recommend swapping out years for decades.
D) Money to the NHS (And everything else). If you genuinely believed that argument after 6 years of sustained cuts, just leave.
E) Turkey joining the EU. Maybe, not for at least another Decade.
2. Remain campaign arguments.
A) Economic Uncertainty. True. Look at the current state of the Pound Sterling.
B) Emergency Budgetary Cuts if we leave. False. Look at the current chancellor.
C) Wonderful free trade if we stay. True. Though that premise has kind of gone now.
3. My opinion.
When the campaign started, I was on the fence, being blown by a gentle breeze onto the side of Brexit. Then the arguments from the Leave campaigns began, and the wind suddenly and violently changed into the other direction. The Leave campaign offered no structured plan for what would occur after Brexit should it occur. Their promises were lies, and deceit, and they fiddled with statistics to make things look worse than they are. I didn't like the arguments presented by the Remain campaign, I thought they too were awful. It was Fear vs Fear, which could win out? The European Union has fundamental flaws in its structure, but these fundamental flaws would be resolved, and Britain could have been part of the push to resolve those flaws. I personally thought the benefits of the European Union outweighed the flaws, but each to their own.
1. Leave Campaign Arguments:
A) The EU is Undemocratic. False. The European Union is not Undemocratic, for one it has the European Parliament which every member state elects to. A country like Croatia arguing it is Undemocratic makes sense, as it has far fewer representatives than Germany, France, and the UK. The UK has the third highest number of MEP's in the EU, affording over 10% of the vote in the parliament. 10% to one country out of 27 states is a rather in our favour is it not? Furthermore, the argument that the European Commission is unelected is also garbage. They are indirectly elected through the Parliament we do elect, much like the way the Electoral College functions in the US when choosing a President.
B) We can still trade within the Single Market like Switzerland or Norway. True, but contradictory. The bulk of the premise of the Vote Leave argument was "We must control Immigration" (Take a look at Mr. Farage's lovely billboard), whilst also saying that we could remain in the single market. If we were to remain within the Single Market, it is a simple truth that we must sign up to the free movements of people (Like Norway and Switzerland), whilst simultaneously losing our representation, say, and influence of EU legislation. Therefore it doesn't make sense to leave then sign up the single market outside of the legislature.
C) We can trade with nations outside the European Union! Look at all these unexploited markets!. True, but a logistical nightmare. The UK's Civil Service has suffered massive cutbacks and redundancies over the past 6 years thanks to Conservative Austerity. To negotiate a trade deal (Which usually take anywhere between 2-10 years) with upwards of 20+ countries simultaneously is logistically impossible given the current state of the Civil Service. Trade won't suddenly appear "Oh it'll be okay in a few years". I'd recommend swapping out years for decades.
D) Money to the NHS (And everything else). If you genuinely believed that argument after 6 years of sustained cuts, just leave.
E) Turkey joining the EU. Maybe, not for at least another Decade.
2. Remain campaign arguments.
A) Economic Uncertainty. True. Look at the current state of the Pound Sterling.
B) Emergency Budgetary Cuts if we leave. False. Look at the current chancellor.
C) Wonderful free trade if we stay. True. Though that premise has kind of gone now.
3. My opinion.
When the campaign started, I was on the fence, being blown by a gentle breeze onto the side of Brexit. Then the arguments from the Leave campaigns began, and the wind suddenly and violently changed into the other direction. The Leave campaign offered no structured plan for what would occur after Brexit should it occur. Their promises were lies, and deceit, and they fiddled with statistics to make things look worse than they are. I didn't like the arguments presented by the Remain campaign, I thought they too were awful. It was Fear vs Fear, which could win out? The European Union has fundamental flaws in its structure, but these fundamental flaws would be resolved, and Britain could have been part of the push to resolve those flaws. I personally thought the benefits of the European Union outweighed the flaws, but each to their own.
