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Topic Summary

Posted by: Senza
« on: October 25, 2014, 09:40:53 PM »

Having played to about week 115 or so in the Final Imperial Push GC as Hand,  I think I've gotten a pretty good feel for how the change to Damage_Airspeeder has affected them. As of now, in terms of effectiveness, I feel like they sit somewhere inbetween the T-47 and the V-Wing. They're roughly as fast as T-47s, with a similarly sized hitbox, but they have a considerable edge over them and the V-Wings in sheer stopping power. That being said, the V-Wing is still a dick, since it's so fast, and has a hitbox that the aiming AI in this game really do not like. So, basically, the Air Straeker kills faster than either of them, but is more vulnerable than the V-Wing due to its lower speed and not irritatingly shaped hitbox.

I have found this to be a pretty good spot for them, they're still very useful, and fill out the Hand's unit roster nicely, and with the change I think they might actually be one of the most balanced units on the Hand roster. They're strong, but they have a  notable weakness, and they don't tend to do very well in a prolonged engagement, anti-air units or no. I've had them slowly whittled away by everything from AT-STs to 2-Ms, so I don't feel like I'm even coming close to cheating when I use them, like I usually still do when I use Gilzeans, or especially when I use a squad or two of Gilzeans in combo with an MMT, or like I invariably do when I use the XR-85 droid tank, which I think will be my next target for balancing.
Posted by: Pali
« on: October 25, 2014, 09:57:40 AM »

Quote from: Vulcanus on October 25, 2014, 06:58:33 AM
AirStreakers are proportionally weaker in my submod, because speed values for most of the land projectiles were tripled, so many units have stronger AA ability. They still devour everything on their path, though, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I'm very much interested to see the results.

That reminds me... I was going to suggest that missile speeds for ground units in your submod be lowered somewhat if possible.  Hailfires and NR artillery got significant boosts in their effectiveness with that change, particularly against units that were previously fast enough to evade missile barrages.
Posted by: Vulcanus
« on: October 25, 2014, 06:58:33 AM »

Quote from: Pali on October 24, 2014, 10:09:27 PM
Not yet.  My current game is an NR Art of War using Vulcanus's submod, and I've seen little of the Hand thus far... I'm pretty sure the PA is wiping the floor with them currently.  Planning to do a Hand game next though.

AirStreakers are proportionally weaker in my submod, because speed values for most of the land projectiles were tripled, so many units have stronger AA ability. They still devour everything on their path, though, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I'm very much interested to see the results.
Posted by: Pali
« on: October 24, 2014, 10:09:27 PM »

Quote from: Senza on October 24, 2014, 07:55:54 PM
Have you gotten a chance to try it for yourself, Pali? If so, what did you think?

Not yet.  My current game is an NR Art of War using Vulcanus's submod, and I've seen little of the Hand thus far... I'm pretty sure the PA is wiping the floor with them currently.  Planning to do a Hand game next though.
Posted by: Senza
« on: October 24, 2014, 07:55:54 PM »

Have you gotten a chance to try it for yourself, Pali? If so, what did you think?
Posted by: Pali
« on: October 23, 2014, 07:04:42 PM »

Awesome, thanks.
Posted by: Senza
« on: October 23, 2014, 06:12:38 PM »

The change seems to have helped, I don't think it's confirmation bias on my part, I sent 6 Air Straekers against a turbolaser tower, two were destroyed, they did noticeably more damage than, say, V-Wings, but they didn't vaporize it instantly, I think some of them were even coming around for a second pass when it blew up. If any of you would like to make this change yourselves to see what you think, go into the Projectiles XML file in your ICW's XML folder, search for (ctrl+f) AirStraeker, and replace the <Damage_Type> field with <Damage_Type> Damage_Airspeeder </Damage_Type>.
Posted by: Pali
« on: October 23, 2014, 06:19:17 AM »

Let us know please the results of that change... If it balances them better I'd happily do it as well.
Posted by: tlmiller
« on: October 23, 2014, 03:02:00 AM »

Quote from: Lord Xizer on October 22, 2014, 05:18:55 PM
this certainly explains a lot like how my wave upon wave of anti air walkers Plex troopers and anti air turrets were all exploding to these things

Yeah, that does explain a lot actually.  While the V-Wings are scary, these things were absolute nightmares.
Posted by: Lord Xizer
« on: October 22, 2014, 05:18:55 PM »

this certainly explains a lot like how my wave upon wave of anti air walkers Plex troopers and anti air turrets were all exploding to these things
Posted by: Senza
« on: October 22, 2014, 01:17:07 PM »

So after being frustrated by Air Straekers vaporizing everything they touch by looking at them, (which, admittedly, still isn't as bad as it was when they were first introduced) I dug around in the files to try to figure out why they do such insane amounts of damage. Their unit file revealed nothing out of the ordinary, they do the same amount of damage as T-47s (the rebel/ NR snowspeeder), but, knowing that the damage field is pretty much meaningless anyway, I checked their projectile files and compared them to those of the T-47 for comparison. I found the AirStraeker's projectile does 20 damage to the T-47's 15, which was still quite acceptable, since the AirStraeker is designed to be a heavy hitter, so I wondered, what could be going on here?

 It was then that I looked at the damage types, and realized in horror why the AirStraeker is so powerful. It uses a modified version of the Imperial anti- vehicle turret projectile (the comment  <!-- used by empire AV turret -->) is even still in the file, and does Anti-Vehicle Turret damage. So, basically, the Air-Straeker is firing bursts of anti-vehicle turret projectiles at units when it strafes them. Um.. any chance this could be changed, pretty please, so that the most viable strategy when playing EotH on the ground isn't just to spam AirStraekers and laugh as the enemy feebly attempts to use anti-air units to defend themselves?

I'm going to try changing its damage type to AirSpeeder instead to see if that helps. Alternately, if the intention was to make it a flying anti vehicle turret with less health, then I suggest that its rate of fire/ burst length be drastically reduced so that it doesn't just vaporize everything in a single pass.
Those working on this mod do so in their own free time and for no pay.
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