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Author Topic: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid  (Read 1529 times)

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March 26, 2018, 06:57:55 PM

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« on: March 26, 2018, 06:57:55 PM »
Opinion. I want to start a debate on this since i thought about after rereading Heir to the Empire.

Dark Empire is to controdictory and honestly should have never happened.
My reasons why.
1. Palpatine did not choose to get commanders like Thrawn and Zsinj to join him at Byss. It would have made snese for the Emperor to have recall them to the deep core because people knew little of both Zsinj and Thrawn.
2. Too much is left ambigious.
3. Luke's plan makes no sense.
4. Where did all these dark jedi and darksider users hide during the past decade?
5. The Eclipse. Where had it been most of the time?
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
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March 26, 2018, 07:21:33 PMReply #1

Offline Ordo

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2018, 07:21:33 PM »
1. My understanding is that he saw them as usurpers of "his" Empire so he just waited for them to be defeated while he prepared
2. Well you could make that argument about a lot of things
3. Doesn't it? Why?
4. Well...on Byss...
5. Getting finished at Byss shipyards.

Overall I agree that its definitely one of the weakest parts of EU, but for different reasons than you. Most importanly because it invalidates Vader's sacrifice by ressing Emperor.

March 27, 2018, 02:49:05 PMReply #2

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 02:49:05 PM »
I actually agree. Dark Empire is not one of the SUs better moments. The story is shoddy, jumps around with little rhyme or reason. It undermins Vaders sacrifice at endor and is far too reliant on superweapons and plot bunnies. The artwork is also atrocious.
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

April 02, 2018, 02:31:27 AMReply #3

Offline Zardnaar

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2018, 02:31:27 AM »
I actually agree. Dark Empire is not one of the SUs better moments. The story is shoddy, jumps around with little rhyme or reason. It undermins Vaders sacrifice at endor and is far too reliant on superweapons and plot bunnies. The artwork is also atrocious.

+1 I learned about it indirectly back in the day via the Jedi Academy trilogy (Clone Emperor huh?).

 It started a tendency of can you top this carried on in the JA, Darksaber, Vong Invasion and even the new movies.

April 02, 2018, 04:57:45 AMReply #4

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2018, 04:57:45 AM »
+1 I learned about it indirectly back in the day via the Jedi Academy trilogy (Clone Emperor huh?).

 It started a tendency of can you top this carried on in the JA, Darksaber, Vong Invasion and even the new movies.

Darksaber and the Yuuzhan Vong War are actually some of my favorites-though I admit both have flaws- they are light years above Dark Empire in terms of quality,story and impact.
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

April 02, 2018, 06:52:27 AMReply #5

Offline Zardnaar

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2018, 06:52:27 AM »
Darksaber and the Yuuzhan Vong War are actually some of my favorites-though I admit both have flaws- they are light years above Dark Empire in terms of quality,story and impact.

I have Darksaber available in HC, bought back in 95 or 96 IIRC. I liked it at the time (I was 16 or 17) tried rereading it and yeah it is kind of erm crap now.
NJO around 19 books of which maybe 5 were any good (the early/1st 3+ Aaron Alston?).

 I think the only legends stuff I liked after the 90's were maybe the legacy books (looked good by comparison to NJO), the legacy comic series and some of the RPG material for Star Wars Saga Edition.

 Main plotline anyway I liked the 1st Darth bane book and some of the Zahn books.




April 02, 2018, 11:33:20 AMReply #6

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 11:33:20 AM »
I have Darksaber available in HC, bought back in 95 or 96 IIRC. I liked it at the time (I was 16 or 17) tried rereading it and yeah it is kind of erm crap now.
NJO around 19 books of which maybe 5 were any good (the early/1st 3+ Aaron Alston?).

 I think the only legends stuff I liked after the 90's were maybe the legacy books (looked good by comparison to NJO), the legacy comic series and some of the RPG material for Star Wars Saga Edition.

 Main plotline anyway I liked the 1st Darth bane book and some of the Zahn books.

I don't think Darksaber falls into the 'crap' category- that is reserved for. Crystal Star, The Corellian trilogy and Children of the Jedi. It has memorable moments, is pivotal to various characters development and does a good job of showing viewpoints on the stories players.
It does suffer from plot bunny syndrome, lack of investment in the callista subplot and some cheesiness.

As to the NJO though, they were vastly superior in terms of character development, stakes, scale and writing. The Enemy Lines, Star by Star, the Force Heretic and the last prophecy were all incredible writing. Legacy was too much an unneeded rehash of CW and reboot feels
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

April 03, 2018, 05:51:01 AMReply #7

Offline Zardnaar

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 05:51:01 AM »
I don't think Darksaber falls into the 'crap' category- that is reserved for. Crystal Star, The Corellian trilogy and Children of the Jedi. It has memorable moments, is pivotal to various characters development and does a good job of showing viewpoints on the stories players.
It does suffer from plot bunny syndrome, lack of investment in the callista subplot and some cheesiness.

As to the NJO though, they were vastly superior in terms of character development, stakes, scale and writing. The Enemy Lines, Star by Star, the Force Heretic and the last prophecy were all incredible writing. Legacy was too much an unneeded rehash of CW and reboot feels
Crystal Star is 1/5 territory, Darksaber is more like 2/5 or 2.5/5 being generous. Its a bit silly but has some enjoyable moments and I enjoyed it circa 1996 probably because it was being compared to the Crystal Star And Corellia trilogy.


 How about I raise you a Planet of Twilight, The New Rebellion, and perhaps a Mandalorian Armor?

April 03, 2018, 10:19:33 AMReply #8

Offline Halyn

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2018, 10:19:33 AM »
Timothy Zahn didn't like Dark Empire. Originally, Dark Empire was supposed to be set shortly after RotJ, but after Zahn refused to reference it while writing the Thrawn trilogy, they moved Dark Empire in the timeline to post-Thrawn. Lots of inconsistencies popped up because of that alone.

April 03, 2018, 02:42:29 PMReply #9

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Opinion: Dark Empire is a little stupid
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 02:42:29 PM »
Crystal Star is 1/5 territory, Darksaber is more like 2/5 or 2.5/5 being generous. Its a bit silly but has some enjoyable moments and I enjoyed it circa 1996 probably because it was being compared to the Crystal Star And Corellia trilogy.


 How about I raise you a Planet of Twilight, The New Rebellion, and perhaps a Mandalorian Armor?
I'd put Darksaber at a solid 3 out of 5. Good and enjoyable but not on the X Wing series level. The X Wing series, Darth Bane trilogy, Thrawn trilogy are the 5 level. Shadows, bounty hunter wars and Force Heretic are 4 level.

I'll see your planet of twilight, new rebellion and mandalorian armor and raise you Crimson Empie I-III, Tales of the Bounty Hunters and Tag & Bink.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 02:45:07 PM by Lord Xizer »
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

 

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