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Author Topic: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]  (Read 5557 times)

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March 29, 2018, 08:28:44 AMReply #40

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2018, 08:28:44 AM »
While i do agree Stannis is the mannis and should have been king (he probably get shit done) i still like Dany.
And while Dany is very pretty i like more because we see her go from this weak little girl to this ruthless and fiery Targaryen with a little mercy in her heart. Whether or not she is qualified is another story.(though judging by how she ruled marreen, she be feared by the commenors, but attract plenty of suitors)

Rey on the other hand is shown to have not gone through a living hell. All she lived on was a hot planet where she worked for food. Unlike Dany she wasn't beaten, raped, almost murder, and betrayed by some of her closest allies.

I agree on this point. Dany has had actual character building and is shown to be flawed yet improving. She did have to work to get where she is and we get to SEE that development, further she has had lots of help and tutoring by experienced people around her, men and women. Rey by contrast starts at max level, has no flaws to overcome and is just better at everything than everyone else. The rest of the cast might as well not even be there. She's better with the Force than Luke-in spite of never being trained, she flies better and can fix the Falcon faster than Han and Chewie-by herself-she is more of a rallying point than Leia, she saves herself when captured, she constantly humiliates her supposed rival on the dark side and saves his life in spite of having roughly 10 hours training in the Force(which was really just Luke showing her one thing to convince her to NOT train) she can speak wookie, swim, fly and use the advanced techniques of the Force with zero reason or explanation as to WHY she can just DO all these things and have no weaknesses. She never pays for her decisions at all, unlike Dany, so there is zero investment in her 'character' Rey can't fall or fuck up, so there's never a time I feel she's in any actual danger or learning something. There is no PROGRESSION. What is her motivation for fighting the First Order? What is her investment in Kylo Ren-a guy she has spent less than a day around-and in that time period he killed her father figure and murdered billions, then just kind of asks her to join him. There's no investment, no development and no growth.  It's actually very sad that they had a chance to bring all the OT guys together for some scenes of interaction but didn't, they wanted them back in but didn't want them to be who they were because plot required it, not because it made sense to the character progression. These flaws will only become MORE apparent with time, the spectacle will fade, the special effects will age and the hype will die down-when that happens what are we left with? The characters and story, both of which in the new franchise are contradictory and under developed.

(and while I don't think Stannis will ever actually sit the Throne-that's not how his character arc is set up to play out in the books-he is certainly the best for the job as well as also being the Rightful King by all the laws of Gods and Men in Westeros)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 08:30:23 AM by Lord Xizer »
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

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March 29, 2018, 10:31:54 AMReply #41

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2018, 10:31:54 AM »
I honestly wish Ezra and Thrawn show up and kill them all.
You can have a pilot played by Kit Harington says "True Empire is back bitches" before killing off maybe Rose and Finn.
Poe can live and maybe you can have Kylo take all his troops and moved to six small planets.
done.
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March 29, 2018, 01:52:10 PMReply #42

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2018, 01:52:10 PM »
I honestly wish Ezra and Thrawn show up and kill them all.
You can have a pilot played by Kit Harington says "True Empire is back bitches" before killing off maybe Rose and Finn.
Poe can live and maybe you can have Kylo take all his troops and moved to six small planets.
done.

We have quite enough poorly written segways due to plot with no thought or reason behind them already. Don't need more
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

March 30, 2018, 02:56:58 PMReply #43

Offline Pali

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2018, 02:56:58 PM »
Stand down Dragon, That throne belongs to Stannis. A just and qualified King. It is also his by Right.

Depends on how you're defining Right there.  Stannis was next in line after Robert, true, but Robert was a usurper who seized the Iron Throne from the Targaryen line that created it in the first place - prior to Aegon's conquest there was no single ruler of Westeros, simply seven independent kingdoms.

Personally, I think Stannis would've been a terrible king.  Not because he was a bad person or incompetent, but because he was terrible with people - a king needs to maintain the loyalty of the lords and play them against each other, and Stannis never showed a talent for playing politics of that nature.  He's respected, but neither loved nor feared, and come winter his inability to inspire or motivate the lords would've torn the kingdoms apart as they tried to survive the onslaught.

Of course, Dany's not all that great a queen either, nor Jon Snow a great king - but these two are younger and more malleable, more willing to acknowledge and learn from their mistakes, so the potential to grow into the roles is there.  Stannis was too old and too stubborn to change his ways.

March 30, 2018, 10:29:45 PMReply #44

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2018, 10:29:45 PM »
Depends on how you're defining Right there.  Stannis was next in line after Robert, true, but Robert was a usurper who seized the Iron Throne from the Targaryen line that created it in the first place - prior to Aegon's conquest there was no single ruler of Westeros, simply seven independent kingdoms.
I remember when i had a dream where i walked in on the parlay and said "Right of Conquest, Bitch" before unloading a glock into Cerci. Then i sat on the Iron Throne for a few minutes before getting board and giving the throne to Daenerys.
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March 31, 2018, 09:10:09 AMReply #45

Offline XxNovaStarxX

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2018, 09:10:09 AM »
I remember when i had a dream where i walked in on the parlay and said "Right of Conquest, Bitch" before unloading a glock into Cerci. Then i sat on the Iron Throne for a few minutes before getting board and giving the throne to Daenerys.

Lets get back on topic -_^ :)


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March 31, 2018, 01:07:04 PMReply #46

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: The simple explanation of why Rey is so strong. [TLJ Spoilers]
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2018, 01:07:04 PM »
Depends on how you're defining Right there.  Stannis was next in line after Robert, true, but Robert was a usurper who seized the Iron Throne from the Targaryen line that created it in the first place - prior to Aegon's conquest there was no single ruler of Westeros, simply seven independent kingdoms.

Personally, I think Stannis would've been a terrible king.  Not because he was a bad person or incompetent, but because he was terrible with people - a king needs to maintain the loyalty of the lords and play them against each other, and Stannis never showed a talent for playing politics of that nature.  He's respected, but neither loved nor feared, and come winter his inability to inspire or motivate the lords would've torn the kingdoms apart as they tried to survive the onslaught.

Of course, Dany's not all that great a queen either, nor Jon Snow a great king - but these two are younger and more malleable, more willing to acknowledge and learn from their mistakes, so the potential to grow into the roles is there.  Stannis was too old and too stubborn to change his ways.

Simple, the Targaryan dynasty was created by Right of Conques. When Aegon conquered Westeros it established that as a Right recognized by the kingdoms. When Robert Baratheon killed Prince Rhaegar(effectively defeating the Targaryan dynasty at the Battle of the Trident and ensuring the collapse of the Mad King) and then took the Iron Throne the Targaryan dynasty was replaced by Right of Conquest with the Baratheon Dynasty-again widely accepted and then proven by the kingdoms as the new legitimate dynasty. Since Robert had no trueborn heirs the Throne by right of both birth, blood and succession passes by law to Stannis since the Baratheon Dynasty was not overthrown by conquest and the lannister bastards rule with Baratheon last names because it is still the acknowledged dynasty.

Stannis would I think be a good king-though an unpopular one- his reforms are based off merit earned, he would scour the court clean and appoint men of talent instead of sycophants. It is precisely this reason the schemes like Baelish and varys oppose him because he is not corruptible or acceptable to bribery and flattery. He's probably the best military commander in Westeros on land or sea and is just. He inspires no love but fierce loyalty in those who follow him, "the lords might have their doubts but the common man believed in their King-he was Robert's brother, victor of the famous battle off fair isle.-ADoD
Stannis would not be popular with the Lords but with support from the Iron Bank, a proven mind for both governing and warfare none would be able to mount effective challenge to his position were he to sit the Throne.

Finally your claim Stannis is too old to change is not based on what we've seen. He has the kingdom's longevity in mind sees the need to bend when it's called for and showed great versitility and the ability to adapt from the time Davos returned after Blackwater to his present time in the North-listening to Jon, distancing himself from the red woman, winning the northern clans and the iron bank.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 01:11:11 PM by Lord Xizer »
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

 

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