0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
I will forever use this thread to show why new star wars fans will never want to explore legends.
There is another way to fix it.Iden being a double agent.Remember his capture at the beggining? And later when she surrendered even Shriv said to Lando that he thought it was a trap?Let's say that it is, just a really long and ellaborated one, and one Del or Hask knew nothing about.I remember when Admiral Versio gave Iden her orders in front of palpybot, and it wasn't explained at all what they were. He just said that they are unusual. And I don't consider the protection of a Star Destroyer AKA an escort mission unusual, even if the cargo is valueable. Especially if the cargo is valueable.Joining the rebels for an undetermined time is.If we approach this logic it starts to make sense why Iden went from I want nothing to do with your rebellion, we gave the intel and just want to save our skin. Then: All right, just one battle and then. All the way to: All right, we will fight for the right cause. in the span of what seems like maybe an hour or two.If wetake this idea as the base, there is nothing in the story that could contradict it.No, not even the scene on the Star Destroyer going down, as the admiral was the one giving out the orders, and might have been afraid that the rebels will look trough the ship's records or something.And then the ending speach from Hask gets a whole new meaning if we consider that he might have gained knowledge of what really went on.Just listen to it with this in mind, and it gets really weird how much it fits.
Their are many options to fix Iden's story1. You could say that maybe some rouge element of the rebellion(Maybe EX-Partisans wanting revenge on Iden?) sabotage Operation: Cinder so that it targets Vardos. It would add a whole new level a betrayal and tragedy to Iden's story2. You could say that Maybe Del when Del went to Pillio that he got capture by members of The New Republic and that when Iden and Gideon show up Iden gets capture. You then could say Iden and Del then "break free" and no one questions a thing, but In reality they had been brainwashed and therefore when Vardos was targeted it trigger the brain washing.3. Have Iden's memories alter?My problem with Iden defecting is that it doesn't fit with what we read of Iden in the books. With Del its a bit of a stretch and quiet honestly he did say he follow Iden's orders. The biggest problem with what they did for the story is that it A: Breaks lore and B: Undermines the whole point of Iden being a ImperialLets look at it like this:A: Lore is broken too much in this game. The first big instance of lore breaking kicks off in mission 5(AKA Vardos mission). In this mission we see something that doesn't make sense, which is Garrick Veriso doing what he did. Garrick Veriso in the book stress the importance of Vardos and how he values you it a lot, hence why he brought it into the Empire. I don't care if the sentinels claimed it as a order, Garrick Veriso has defied orders before for his daughter so why follow orders that undermine his daughters loyalty? The next thing is that this games make no reference Seyn Marana and the fact that she died for Inferno Squadron. This further breaks the whole defection to the New Republic by Del and Iden. Also Does Iden even join the rebellion? She must know that they murder Gideon Hask's parents, leaving him a orphan. Also Bespin was under a warlords control. The thing that offended me most about the story is the lack of references to the books. I just hate it and it pisses me off.B: Iden being a Imperial turned rebel is also what killed the campaign for most. We have had way to many Imperial Defectors and it is getting old fast. And this was one of the games main selling points, that we Fight as a Imperial for the future of the Empire. The other problem is the trailers all hint at different things that never happen. Where is the part where Iden gives a speech to stormtroopers on Vardos about how hope cannot save them?I think what happened is the story group intervene or EA just advertised this game wrong. I believe more likely the story group interfered and changed Iden and Del's story. I really wish we could retcon the defection out of the cannon since I don't understand it.
TBH, I really wouldn't mind breaking it, but it doesn't have to happen.Del only defects because he loves Iden and thinks she is serious and Iden loves Del as well, she just doesn't tell him because orders keep her from doing so.Also if we go from Iden loves Del, then she doesn't tell him exacrly because she loves him and doesn't want to break his heart.But to be honest, I really don't like that it always have to break down on love every single goddamn time. It is starting to be cliche and the first time Del and Iden started talking I immediately thought: "Now A, they're gonna fall in love. or B, One falls for the other and the other one betrays him/her." And looks like option A won.And I am not against a good love story, don't misunderstand, but Other than they were both Inferno, what is common within Iden and Del that was shown in the campaign? I haven't seen anything really. It basicly boils down to You are woman, I am man or the other way around, and we know each other. THE END.That's why I wouldn't mind breaking them up. If they would have handled it better I wouldn't dare touch it. But they didn't.
Ya...like many have pointed out, the story would have been far more interesting if Iden and Del had worked within the Empire to stop Operation Cinder as opposed to simply defecting to the New Republic. But I understand the simplicity for a campaign that was more or less just included as something extra.
When your dealing with something like star wars, fans care for story and lore. You can not tell me that making Iden do a full 180 like that would make sense in real life.That's like a US Marine defecting to the Islamic State because a drone strike killed some people who were not meant to be killed.
Which has happened, but that is really inaccurate. What would be better is "It would be like a Marine defecting because the US killed his home town."
Well...in fairness...Iden defected because the Empire did kill her home for no reason whatsoever other than blinding following the last orders of their dead Emperor. I don't like how quickly she defected to the New Republic, but it's not like Iden changing allegiance is completely unreasonable. It was just done in a boring and lazy way.
Its like if the President of the United States was killed and the response of the US government is to purge Texas with the shitty Geostorm thing.i also like to point out that Iden never returned to Vardos to try and rebuild it along with the NR. I also like to mention that rumors have suggested the NR knew about Operation: Cinder and chose not to act until the Empire began killing people. What a bunch of dicks. In fact none of Iden's choices in the game make sense. In the book Iden believes in the Empire so much that she hates going undercover as a defector. Her mother told her to serve the Empire and make her proud. Why is this not addressed?
I think you are missing the point of Operation Cinder. It was designed to be counterproductive, stupid, and accelerate the downfall of the Empire. In the new canon, Palpatine literally believed that if he died, the Empire had to die with him. Palpatine purposely picked a handful of blindly loyal (stupid) officers that would truly believe Operation Cinder would be for the benefit of the Empire.It's suppose to look absurd and stupid. It would be to the average person. It wouldn't be to a fanatical, self-destructive Imperial.
But that is not who Garrick Versio is. The book highlights this by showing that his love for his daughter is more important then his love of the Empire.The thing is that Papaltine's plan should not work and it couldnt not possibly work. It requires certains things to happen a certain way and it ulimately confuses people.Youtubers, casual star wars fans, and some lore nuts had trouble understanding the leep in logic. Levelcap called it a cop-out, Star Wars Explained said it was bad writing, and some of my friends were just pissed off because they didnt want to play as the rebellion/NR. In fact ever since Rogue One alot of my friends think the rebellion is basically like a space version of ISIS, the Lord's Ressitance, or any other insane rogue terrorist group. Many of my friends complained that Operation: Cinder made watching Geostorm sound like a fun time. The reason it is stupid is not becuase its meant to be. They wrote themselves into a corner and fucked all lore now. We have this obsured 30 year gap where little to no fighting between the IR, the FO, and the NR took place. They havent fleshed out lore enough. In fact the reason Iden's defection is bad is becuase of how the game was marketed. We clearly saw things in both the launch trailer, and the reveal trailer that never appeared. What seems to have happened was that they reworte most of the story for no reason. I for once want to play as a memeber of the Empire that stays with the Empire. Its a better story that we rarely get.
However, Operation Cinder really isn't that implausible by "Star Wars logic." Again, all it takes is a few fanatical Imperials. It's no more contrived than Palpatine's rise to power in the Prequel Trilogy, which completely hinded on the Jedi essentially being gullible as hell. The EU Palpatine did the same shit post-Episode 6 too; he sat on Byss and let the Imperials kill each other over Coruscant to "cull the weak" before revealing himself again to the galaxy.
palpatine's rise is simple power politics 101. HE played the victim and he the all the power he needed. HE manpiulated people using his darkside followers. Keep in mind as well that for Operation: Cinder to work it has to have certain people do certain thinsg without loyalty question. EVen finatical Imperials would have a hard time doing what they did.And your agurment is a false equivlancey. These senarios are uncompareable. Palpatine in the EU sat on Byss so he could build up his superweapons then call together the remaining Imperials to launch his invasion. Hidiing out and bidding his time is something Papaltine did. Palaptine played the long game.Lets be honest as well. This happened over 1 YEAR. 1 Year is absurd. if it was fives years then okay, but a year? Seriously? The Empire outnumbered the rebellion even with Operation: Cinder and the Contingency in play. Their fleet is bigger, theid resources are vas and they outnumbered the rebellion 100 to 1
Shadow Hand effectively killed the Imperial Navy and that was in one year. He also purposely pitted imps together because of survival of the fittest. They both play out in a similar fashion so they are easy to compare. It's also Star Wars, if you expected a magnum opus you might want to look somewhere else.