economy buildings

[Rogue66X]

OK i know here is an idea what if we add special structures for planets that can effect ship production and troop production, since we all know resources are hard to come by for certain factions what if we added structures like ore processing plants and tibanna gas facilities for certain planets and if you control them they can either reduce the cost for building ships or maybe increase its building speed, for starfighters you could add fighter production facilities that could make building individual fighter squadrons cheaper or make building carriers cheaper and for ground troops you can add buildings that can help increase the production for vehicles and and weaponry

[nightraven1901]

I think the fear of cluttering the ground build queues will prevent this from being implemented, as there's no support for scrolling the damned build list. It'd be cool, but not particularly necessary, and I believe the mod is about to enter final polishing phases, where further large-scale additions will no longer be performed. A pity, though: it would be very good for the immersion factor to have tibanna gas refineries and quadanium foundries feeding the shipyards... Maybe, if we're VERY lucky, we'll see special structures added to the few remaining ground maps that haven't been completed, but they would presumably be entirely aesthetic. Ship prices can be buffed by installing the faction-dependant corporations on specific worlds (Kuat Drive Yards over Kuat, Sienar Systems over Jaemus, etcetera).

[briG]

Mining facilities are enough. I'd wager they might need to be nerfed because once you control a decent number of planets with large numbers of slots to mass one type of unit production building on so its quick, you can just spam mining facilities on every other planet that doesn't need any fortification. After doing that for awhile you basically have infinite money to throw around.

[t78]

"A pity, though: it would be very good for the immersion factor to have tibanna gas refineries and quadanium foundries feeding the shipyards... Maybe, if we're VERY lucky, we'll see special structures added to the few remaining ground maps that haven't been completed, but they would presumably be entirely aesthetic. Ship prices can be buffed by installing the faction-dependant corporations on specific worlds (Kuat Drive Yards over Kuat, Sienar Systems over Jaemus, etcetera)."

Mwa, ha, ha, ha.... Here's an idea for you! What if they were automatically added with the shipyards, and if they were destroyed but not the shipyard, production would be stopped for a short time? Destroy the tibanna refineries- production 50% slowed, destroying stock pile stations- 75% slowed, and destroying the foundaries as well = production halting for 40 seconds or so. In no particular order.

No new build queues and nothing affecting the interface, just a new aspect of heavy capital shipyards.

On that note, could intelligence reveals show not just enemy units, but what each system is building (assuming the ai doesn't do it instantly?).

[nightraven1901]

Actually, that's doable. Main problem: No tibanna gas refinery or quadanium foundry models available in map editor files (much to my sodding disappointment). We can make our own, but it will take time to do. The actual trigger coding for knocking out production is fairly straightforward, though. That part's easy. A harder question may be how these structures would be destroyed without first destroying the space station you wish to affect- the New Republic can see to this, but it's something of an edge-case scenario where this would happen. Adding a feature that's time-intensive to create is generally reserved for things that will see a lot of action. If this was going to be a thing, Corey's team would want to make sure it was worthwhile in terms of how many people would see and use it- if the facilities were modelled, there would be some want to see them explode regularly. Planetary structures aren't the best way to implement that. As space stations there would be a strategic possibility of taking them out without there being a need to engage the more heavily fortified shipyard, ensconced in Golan platforms. In fact, doing that would see a reason to implement your earlier space raid idea- send a few CR90s and Carracks to mess up those stations to abort enemy capital ship manufacture (potentially costing them thousand) and delay or abort death star construction when warned about it. But I will warn you- all this depends on having models for tibanna gas refinery and quadanium foundry space stations, which we don't, and a surplus of Corey's time, which is perpetually short. Great idea, though. Very interesting...

[Roachbugg]

Mining facilities are enough. I'd wager they might need to be nerfed because once you control a decent number of planets with large numbers of slots to mass one type of unit production building on so it's quick, you can just spam mining facilities on every other planet that doesn't need any fortification. After doing that for awhile, you basically have infinite money to throw around.

The problem with Nerfing them is on smaller GC's is it can become nigh impossible to build a fleet. The small GC's in EaW RE have this issue where even the AI can't afford to send more than Heroes stacked by walls of Corvettes. I think the Limit of 3 per planet is the is fine the way it is. Once you have a large empire with a lot of resources, you should be able to steamroll. There becomes a point in any RTS title where you hit critical mass, and there is very little chance you are going to lose. Also, ships having upkeep helps to alleviate this problem a bit. I think the current system is fine as it rewards you for aggressively expanding to unify your border into a few choke points so you can build up to conquest the galaxy.

[t78]

"all this depends on having models for tibanna gas refinery and quadanium foundry space stations"

You remember those 3-armed structures that pop up in the back-ground at Kuat? What if some simple crates and containers were added on to them and they were made destructible? It's not much, but could be a useful placeholder. *shrug*

"A harder question may be how these structures would be destroyed without first destroying the space station you wish to affect- the New Republic can see to this, but it's something of an edge-case scenario where this would happen."

(presumably they could be destroyable civilian structures?)

Plus, alot of this is 2.3 rather than 2.2 scale thoughts. I'm not really suggesting anything for the next release. Heaven knows how little time the dev team have already!

Two last things: For the Ai... could a structure be given an invisible marker that says to the Ai 'if you have a small force, prioritise this'? If the Ai knows everything you're building and it has a fleet next to that system, could it be incentivised to go for that system? Presumably one would hope it would see those structures as targettable. Without stealth fleets this seems a minor issue- the foundaries are merely caught in the crossfire of a major engagement. (If stealth fleets were useful then this becomes more problematic. I will think on this and your earlier points on stealth fleet/army problems.)

Nonetheless: Giving the player knowledge that something large is being built next to the front lines is probably the weak point of this idea. It is needed so attacking foundaries has an impact. If it is possible, a random event featuring a shuttle or civvie convoy, and then destroying it ('commander, we found intelligence in the wreckage!') could give the impetus for that intel, but whether the human player can be shown it in the first place is doubtful. A UI change would be needed, and that kind of work would be gargantuan.

Gah! It really is unworkable.....

[nightraven1901]

T78: Not unworkable, just difficult. Could be done, however. As a sidenote, my confusion at how an attacker would reach these things was predicated on them being ground structures, where only raid fleets could get at them without blowing up the station you wish to affect. It can be done, but it would need a decent chunk of work, notably making the models. If we get those, maybe further actions down this path can be considered.

But it won't be my baby. I have a map to complete, first and foremost. I'm quite determined to produce a working map before my assistance request thread asking how to get the mapmaker running makes it off the first page trouble is they take a little while each. And we need seventy-five of them, apparently. Time for work!

[t78]

This is just a little addendum to your observation that the N.R and Eriadu have stealth fleets- from Corey's playthrough it seems so.

Based on your rightful suspicion that it could get irritating having planets snatched from under your nose, I'd recommend that stealth attacks carry a timer- after that the single ship retreat code kicks in and units are dispersed to you territories. Maybe a function preventing that planet being attacked again and worn down until a period of time has passed. So you can wear someone down in the short time you have, but not have to deal with conquered territory behind the lines.

Once again,, this is non-priority, but a potential anti-frustration feature if needed.

[nightraven1901]

T78: The AI doesn't chain attacks against a single planet anyway- and adding the single-unit retreat code, as far as I know, requires writing that functionality into each unit individually, hence us not seeing it planned for every unit- too much effort to implement. I'd love to see it available, as every ship should have the ability to run away, but if it involves several hours of code per unit (and it may very well take days  per unit), then we can't really expect it.

[Pox]

and adding the single-unit retreat code, as far as I know, requires writing that functionality into each unit individually, hence us not seeing it planned for every unit- too much effort to implement. I'd love to see it available, as every ship should have the ability to run away, but if it involves several hours of code per unit (and it may very well take days  per unit), then we can't really expect it.

I had no idea it was this hard to add it!

Actually the SUR code is the same for every unit. We have a generic unit script that gets attached to every ship that looks up the unit type in a library file to determine which other scripts need to be loaded for this unit type. One of the main reasons we're not adding SUR for every unit is that the UI is limited to displaying two abilities. So the units that get it are primarily those that have a free slot left.

[t78]

Forgive me for asking, but are there many units with two abilities?

Incredibly stupid/crazy thought: holding the shift key allows a different ability to be used despite the same button being clicked. Can one button be allowed to do two things? 

[Pox]

Unfortunately we have no control over hotkeys, that's all hardcoded.

[t78]

Oh Petroglyph...

I shall ignore the silly fantasy in my head of writing to them and getting them to help with this. If if I wasn't ignored, it would probably result in a cease and desist. 

[TonPhanan]

Oh Petroglyph...

I shall ignore the silly fantasy in my head of writing to them and getting them to help with this. If if I wasn't ignored, it would probably result in a cease and desist. 

While you're at it, ask them why there's no shortcut for the pause function, would you ;>?

[nightraven1901]

Tom: I know, right? Seriously; space-bar means pause. It's an genre standard that goes back years. Hell, I'd settle for P being pause. But no...

[Rogue66X]

Wow i didn't think i would get this much of a response.

OK for me i don't have a real great understanding of legends ( only basic common knowledge)  but what do know is that everything went to shit when palpatine died.

to me think it would make sense if certain planets had specific buildings they could (not faction specific) whether it be industrial centers, important commerce sectors, or resources, because the imperials turned into rabid dogs trying to get a piece of meat of a dead animal, it would make sense if this was established because it would mean it would be harder to hit critical mass, due lack of resources, prices could double on equipment, troop recruitment could become low due to the lack on high population centers, ships could take 2 or 3 times longer to build and prices could be harder to maintain due to upkeep, fighter facilities would become crucial due the need of fighter coverage

[briG]

It's not a terrible idea, but it would just add an inch of depth for not much gameplay value.

[Rogue66X]

well the only reason i ever suggested this is because we need to find a way to slow down factions from hitting critical mass

[briG]

Why didn't you say so? That would be fantastic if a solution could be thought of. It would mean you have more variety in units and have to do more with less. Ideally, you would still be able to use cheap units late into the game because stronger units are cost prohibitive.