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Poll

Cannon or Legends?

Cannon
0 (0%)
Legends
15 (68.2%)
both
5 (22.7%)
neither
0 (0%)
(for me to click)
2 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)  (Read 19394 times)

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May 17, 2017, 12:38:47 AMReply #20

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2017, 12:38:47 AM »
Expanded Universe easily. It had it's share of flaws certainly, but it took risks Discan will never try, it literally BUILT the SW galaxy that Lucas only glossed over, the EU gave us aspects that made comments or throwaway sections of the films MAKE SENSE, it gave much needed context and depth to a story we all know and love. Even now Disney is just picking at the EUs corpse, plundering it's grave for 'creative freedom. To me it is no different from someone who murders and usurps a throne then starts stealing previous ruler's ideas as it's own.
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May 17, 2017, 01:08:29 AMReply #21

Offline Revanchist

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2017, 01:08:29 AM »
I would say that this forum isn't really the best place to ask a question like that, since Legends will get an easy win here any time (and this is how it should be). And once again I find myself agreeing completely with Revanchist's opinion (beware, I might just simply be his second account), that any good that has come out of Disney canon is based on Legends materials one way or the other. Legends in no way can be inferior to the Disney Canon, simply because they didn't have the luxury of having a source of storytelling and characters to rely on, apart from the films. Disney, on the other hand, at any point could just use a Legends character or story any way they liked. Just think about it for a second - without Thrawn Rebels wouldn't be nearly as good, and he is a Legends character who was simply reworked into the new Canon. Kylo Ren is Jacen Solo, etc., I could go on and on.

Pretty funny about you being my second account. But yeah that's exactly what I am talking about.
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May 17, 2017, 11:58:40 AMReply #22

Offline DarthRevansRevenge

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2017, 11:58:40 AM »
I would say that this forum isn't really the best place to ask a question like that, since Legends will get an easy win here any time (and this is how it should be). And once again I find myself agreeing completely with Revanchist's opinion (beware, I might just simply be his second account), that any good that has come out of Disney canon is based on Legends materials one way or the other. Legends in no way can be inferior to the Disney Canon, simply because they didn't have the luxury of having a source of storytelling and characters to rely on, apart from the films. Disney, on the other hand, at any point could just use a Legends character or story any way they liked. Just think about it for a second - without Thrawn Rebels wouldn't be nearly as good, and he is a Legends character who was simply reworked into the new Canon. Kylo Ren is Jacen Solo, etc., I could go on and on.

i would disagree with you on 1 point. Kylo Ren is more Disney's failed attempt to make Jacen Solo. Solo was so much better then Kylo
do you know what really makes me mad? that the NR didn't make as many different SSDs as the empire. they would have won much faster had they done so. it's just not fair. but, if their were more NR SSDs, they would be absolute SUPER-CARRIERS.

but, i'm a member of the PA at heart, and my wish here is to join the ranks of grand admirals... sorry, the elite imperial alignment

May 17, 2017, 12:23:57 PMReply #23

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2017, 12:23:57 PM »
i would disagree with you on 1 point. Kylo Ren is more Disney's failed attempt to make Jacen Solo. Solo was so much better then Kylo

Yes, of course he was. I didn't mean it as if they are equal in quality as characters, just that it was another reused concept from Legends.
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July 21, 2017, 07:18:21 AMReply #24

Offline The Fist Of Justice

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 07:18:21 AM »
Why not love both?

But personally I do prefer Legends despite the convolution of plot bunnies and bad stories, because it is more extensive and told the story of galaxies and the things that inhabited them, from millennia BBY to long after Return of The Jedi. It has a place in my heart, also because it's really what I grew up with.
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August 10, 2017, 12:29:54 PMReply #25

Offline Shermos

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 12:29:54 PM »
Legends. It's much more fleshed out and has some awesome ships. That said, it's not really fair to compare the two yet imo. Legends had about 25 years to get to where it is now. There are a couple of things I wanted to bring up though.

- Thrawn is better in the canon book. I love him in legends, but he pulled some stuff out of his a** that just wasn't believable. The writers group better not have him defect to the Rebels or some crap like this. And they better not kill him in season 4 of Rebels. That show does not do him justice, and he's too good to throw out so soon.

- I'm still not sure about the whole making cyber crystals "bleed" to turn them red thing. Both sides of the argument have good points.

- Wtf would Luke choose to go into exile? It's not something he would do. I hope The Last Jedi explains this well, and I hope the wirters have the guts to with the new Jedi being grey.


August 19, 2017, 07:33:36 PMReply #26

Offline Mitthrawnuruodo

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2017, 07:33:36 PM »
I voted both. First of all, I am of course a big fan of the Thrawn trilogy, which I'm sure many of us consider the true Episodes 7, 8 and 9. I also loved the Hand duology, and basically I'm a sucker for Thrawn and the Empire of the Hand. However, although this point is not to do with story quality, I am glad that the new canon means we get more Thrawn now, and just more content generally, especially more films.

Now, I enjoyed The Force Awakens, and I said to people "it's a good film." Shortly followed by "because it didn't dare risk not being one." It stuck to formula too strictly. It was Star Wars' Greatest Hits - Episode 4 with a little 5 and 6 thrown in for good measure.

The backstory of the 30 years leading up to it is ridiculous. First of all, Palpatine leaves posthumous orders for the Empire to commit suicide. What? The Empire cedes defeat in 1 year. Yeah right!

And then there's Luke Skywalker's Jedi Order that gets wiped out when Kylo turns to the dark side and kills them all. So basically, the key event of the prequel trilogy happened again off-screen!

The Imperial Civil War is a much more realistic take on what would happen after the death of the Emperor - splinter factions and 15 years before the final Imperial Remnant ceases hostility.

However, I do have to praise Rogue One. It was what The Force Awakens should have been - taking the familiar elements and telling a new story with them, rather than the same story. It had the maturity to touch on moral complexity, showing us that the Rebels aren't always goody two-shoes. Now it of course had its flaws - the lack of characterisation and certain characters just doing weird things. But I am thankful for the fact that we now know exactly how the Rebels got the Death Star plans, as opposed to either having to pick one of many options or trying to work around it with "they each got a fragment of the plans".

And that's what happened in the Legends - a multitude of authors or producers with either a lack of research, getting ahead of canon (when works were made before the films and the films then contradicted them) or just plain retconning led to the Legends getting a bit messy in places. With conflicting accounts and varying quality between pieces, you had to pick and choose the bits you like. Perhaps that may be a strength in some regard, almost like Doctor Who's expanded universe policy of "canon is what you decide", but not when the authors are trying to hold a semblance of continuity.

I've yet to read any of the new novels, but I hear Tarkin and Thrawn are excellent, and I am actually interested in reading the new accounts of the fall of the Empire.

But all in all, you have to take the rough with the smooth of both continuities, and with the canon, they've really only just got started, there's more content to come.

Thrawn is better in the canon book. I love him in legends, but he pulled some stuff out of his a** that just wasn't believable. The writers group better not have him defect to the Rebels or some crap like this. And they better not kill him in season 4 of Rebels. That show does not do him justice, and he's too good to throw out so soon.

My suspicion is that they're going to adapt the Legends - with the Death Star at completion, the Emperor will believe that Thrawn isn't necessary for defeating the Rebels any more and 'banish' him to the Unknown Regions to explore territory for the First Order to eventually establish Empire to colonise.

August 19, 2017, 08:27:33 PMReply #27

Offline DarthRevansRevenge

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2017, 08:27:33 PM »
my opinion in a nutshell above
do you know what really makes me mad? that the NR didn't make as many different SSDs as the empire. they would have won much faster had they done so. it's just not fair. but, if their were more NR SSDs, they would be absolute SUPER-CARRIERS.

but, i'm a member of the PA at heart, and my wish here is to join the ranks of grand admirals... sorry, the elite imperial alignment

August 21, 2017, 10:06:27 AMReply #28

Offline taupin121

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2017, 10:06:27 AM »

Legends. The Story Group Canon works' quality do not compare to the Legends ones quality. And if it continue like that, the Disneylogie gonna be awful.

August 23, 2017, 07:37:33 PMReply #29

Offline Mitthrawnuruodo

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2017, 07:37:33 PM »
Just to add to what I've already said, I find saying "Legends is better than canon" to be far too broad a brushstroke to be considered true. Because if you say all Legends is better than all canon, then you're putting The Crystal Star, Holiday Special, and everything Ewoks above Tarkin, Thrawn and Rogue One.

The best of Legends may well be better than the best of canon, but the worst of Legends is far far worse than anything canon.

August 23, 2017, 08:58:53 PMReply #30

Offline tlmiller

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 08:58:53 PM »
but the worst of Legends is far far worse than anything canon.

Disagree with that part.  TFA is by far, IMO, worse than anything I've read or seen in Legends.  Even the holiday special is on another entire plateau of GREATNESS comparatively speaking.
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August 24, 2017, 04:07:36 AMReply #31

Offline Guderian

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2017, 04:07:36 AM »
Since all the good Canon stuff that came out lately (Thrawn for example or the Return of the Interdictor and Tie Defender) is based on Legends i'll give it to Legends.
Especially after i have seen the new Fan-Fiction/Canon stuff for Episode 5.2 (aka 8)
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August 24, 2017, 05:33:19 AMReply #32

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2017, 05:33:19 AM »

Creative freedom they said...

August 24, 2017, 06:28:56 AMReply #33

Offline Guderian

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2017, 06:28:56 AM »
Creative freedom they said...
and the worst kind of fan-fiction we got.
I do bet in the Episode 5.2 we get a black Smuggler who will betray the Main Characters but ultimatly will redeem him/herself and try to get them out of the Situation he/she brought them in.
And one of the Main Characters will get frozen into carbonit.

August 24, 2017, 07:05:38 AMReply #34

Offline taupin121

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2017, 07:05:38 AM »
You are even more pessimistic than I am... But can't say I would be very surprised if that happens.

The best of Legends may well be better than the best of canon, but the worst of Legends is far far worse than anything canon.

Forces of Destiny, Rebels, Battlefront, TFA,...

The core of the Story Group EU is composed of a dozen of poor novels (there's only a handful of good ones), lots of poor comics (there's only a handful of good TPBs), tons of mobile games and awful child shows.

No matter how you take it, worst, best, average, the Story Group Canon did not match, and I am very doubtful it will ever, the Legends one. Even with them picking, out of context, Legends content or even counting the pre-Legends Marvel comics or Ewok movies as part of Legends.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 07:20:18 AM by taupin121 »

August 24, 2017, 11:32:56 AMReply #35

Offline DarthRevansRevenge

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2017, 11:32:56 AM »
yeah, i saw that too, and all that Disney is doing is rehashing the old stuff. would have liked it better if they had kept Legends as Canon and made 7-8-9 as the Thrawn trilogy or Dark Empire, and expanded from there. Maybe go over the Legacy of the Force?
do you know what really makes me mad? that the NR didn't make as many different SSDs as the empire. they would have won much faster had they done so. it's just not fair. but, if their were more NR SSDs, they would be absolute SUPER-CARRIERS.

but, i'm a member of the PA at heart, and my wish here is to join the ranks of grand admirals... sorry, the elite imperial alignment

August 24, 2017, 12:33:02 PMReply #36

Offline Shermos

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2017, 12:33:02 PM »
My suspicion is that they're going to adapt the Legends - with the Death Star at completion, the Emperor will believe that Thrawn isn't necessary for defeating the Rebels any more and 'banish' him to the Unknown Regions to explore territory for the First Order to eventually establish Empire to colonise.

I'm hoping this proves to be true, and that he ends up back with his people. I don't want to get my hopes up though given the quality of some of the stuff the story group has come up with. Let's hope business sense prevails. 

Thrawn is the only canon novel I've read and I'd give it 4/5. It's got a subplot with (later to become) Governor Arinda Pryce which was kinda boring, but everything with Thrawn and his protege is great. I was only disappointed Pelleon wasn't brought back. That's not to say he couldn't be in future. Zahn apparently has several story outlines waiting for approval.   
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:40:07 PM by Shermos »

August 25, 2017, 05:33:00 PMReply #37

Offline Revanchist

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2017, 05:33:00 PM »
I'm hoping this proves to be true, and that he ends up back with his people. I don't want to get my hopes up though given the quality of some of the stuff the story group has come up with. Let's hope business sense prevails. 

Thrawn is the only canon novel I've read and I'd give it 4/5. It's got a subplot with (later to become) Governor Arinda Pryce which was kinda boring, but everything with Thrawn and his protege is great. I was only disappointed Pelleon wasn't brought back. That's not to say he couldn't be in future. Zahn apparently has several story outlines waiting for approval.

I didn't mind not seeing or hearing about Pellaeon, because in Legends Thrawn and Pellaeon didn't meet until post-Ep VI. Probably the best thing about the Thrawns novel in my opinion is that it can be pretty seamlessly incorporated and accepted into Legends.
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August 30, 2017, 05:50:55 PMReply #38

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2017, 05:50:55 PM »
Legends. It's much more fleshed out and has some awesome ships. That said, it's not really fair to compare the two yet imo. Legends had about 25 years to get to where it is now. There are a couple of things I wanted to bring up though.

- Thrawn is better in the canon book. I love him in legends, but he pulled some stuff out of his a** that just wasn't believable. The writers group better not have him defect to the Rebels or some crap like this. And they better not kill him in season 4 of Rebels. That show does not do him justice, and he's too good to throw out so soon.

- I'm still not sure about the whole making cyber crystals "bleed" to turn them red thing. Both sides of the argument have good points.

- Wtf would Luke choose to go into exile? It's not something he would do. I hope The Last Jedi explains this well, and I hope the wirters have the guts to with the new Jedi being grey.
To address your first point while that maybe true we had more books flesh out his character and while some of it can be bullshit most of it is based on key details only he picks up.

I don't like how they are doing cyber crystals because it breaks lore with how Papaltine, Maul, Savage, Ventress, Dooku, and even Kylo Ren got their lightsabers.

3. what they are trying to do is basically say that the jedi and sith are both bad. they are truly saying that a balance force user can walk on a path that uses both the light and the dark side.

I also want to say the cannon books I recommend reading for anyone would be; Inferno Squadron, Thrawn, Tarkin, and Darth Maul Son of Dathomir comics
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August 30, 2017, 06:17:04 PMReply #39

Offline tlmiller

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Re: Disney Star Wars cannon? Or EU (Legends)
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2017, 06:17:04 PM »
3. what they are trying to do is basically say that the jedi and sith are both bad. they are truly saying that a balance force user can walk on a path that uses both the light and the dark side


I agree with that though.  In Legends, Jensaarai were the only proper good IMO.  Divesting yourself of all emotions will lead to as much evil as giving in to all emotions.  Jedi were no more good than the Sith, just less actively evil and more passively evil.
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