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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 9123 times)

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June 27, 2016, 02:22:08 PM

Offline tlmiller

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Brexit
« on: June 27, 2016, 02:22:08 PM »
The Brexit?  Anyone here care about it?
People should not be afraid of their government...governments should be afraid of their people.

June 27, 2016, 02:48:46 PMReply #1

Offline kucsidave

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 02:48:46 PM »
Maybe...
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

June 27, 2016, 03:37:00 PMReply #2

Offline Mat8876

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 03:37:00 PM »
I don't being a UK citizen i can't think of a worse topic i voted leave i now all the remain bunch are whining over it.

All i can say is STOP BLOODY WHINING WERE A F****** DEMOCRACY ONE SIDE WINS ALL THE OTHERS LOSE.
A Member of the Imperial Alignment(Allies With The Shadow Post Empire).

\\\"Challenge and diversity make us strong. Too much protection can prevent us from learning, from reaching our potential. We can learn from others, but we must also learn from our own experiences. . . and our own mistakes.\\\" Luke Skywalker

\\\"An elegant weapon for a more civilized time, eh? Well, guess what? Times have changed!\\\" RC-01/138


June 28, 2016, 01:49:03 AMReply #3

Offline kucsidave

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 01:49:03 AM »
Two problems with this mentality:
1, they are not whining, they are letting their voice heard and you can't say them to stop, because you are a democracy, since they are free men and women. They can do whatever they want.
2, you don't see the effect of what you just did. You just saw the migrants and said no thanks and left before thinking it trough on an economical and political side.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

June 28, 2016, 03:28:58 AMReply #4

Offline Pali

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 03:28:58 AM »
Let's not get into claiming to know what someone else is thinking, shall we?

As for Brexit, as an American I'm concerned.  Article 50 hasn't even been invoked yet, and just the referendum itself was enough to throw the market into a spin and give the pound, well, a pounding.  I don't like financial chaos, and I don't like it when nationalism with a racial tinge is the apparent primary motivator of a populist movement.  I do expect the markets to stabilize soon, but I am not looking forward to seeing what they do while the UK and EU hammer out their new relationship and trade deals.  I'm concerned regarding Scotland and Northern Ireland, as both seemed to strongly support remaining - Scotland came close to voting to leave the UK just two years ago and supported remaining in the EU by a much larger margin and already there is talk of another independence vote, and leaving the EU may neutralize parts of the Good Friday Agreement regarding Northern Ireland, potentially causing fighting to flare back up there.

June 28, 2016, 04:00:21 AMReply #5

Offline Mat8876

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2016, 04:00:21 AM »
If Northern Ireland and Scotland want to go they can go a mean it's not like the British doesn't know about just leaving their territory to fend for itself.

But i also want to point out that the people who voted remain are not looking at the bigger picture
A. Nothing is going to happen for 2 - 4 years
B. We will get trading with other country's less with people in the EU but more with country's outside the EU.
C. We are not keeping our borders completely shut because we left the EU we've only made it harder to get in, also just because of will be harder to get in doesn't mean no one will come just look at USA and Australia.
A Member of the Imperial Alignment(Allies With The Shadow Post Empire).

\\\"Challenge and diversity make us strong. Too much protection can prevent us from learning, from reaching our potential. We can learn from others, but we must also learn from our own experiences. . . and our own mistakes.\\\" Luke Skywalker

\\\"An elegant weapon for a more civilized time, eh? Well, guess what? Times have changed!\\\" RC-01/138


June 28, 2016, 08:33:19 AMReply #6

Offline Pali

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2016, 08:33:19 AM »
Nothing is going to happen?  Your currency has already dropped to a 30-year low - in a single day.  Unless you expect all of this to rebound shortly, an expectation not shared by any economists I've read over the last few days (some expect it to fall further), this is hardly nothing.

Edit: You also have about 3 million non-British EU citizens living in the UK, and 1.3 million non-EU Brits living in the EU, all of whose plans for the future have been thrown into chaos because they have no idea what to expect regarding revised immigration and residency laws.  No one in the Leave campaign can guarantee anything to these people right now, nor can they for the foreseeable future.  Again, this is hardly nothing.  That is hasn't negatively affected you directly yet doesn't mean it is having no impacts.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:40:40 AM by Pali »

June 28, 2016, 03:41:58 PMReply #7

Offline Mat8876

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 03:41:58 PM »
What i mean from nothing will happen for 2 -4 years is that we won't leave the EU till then.

Yes the Pound has hit an all time low but it will recover once things settle down.

For the Non-british in the country and the British outside the country yes there is nothing in place to ensure their future yet, We will organize something but just not yet it's not even been a week since the referendum just give it time, let the dust settle and once the goverment sort themselves out something will be in place.
A Member of the Imperial Alignment(Allies With The Shadow Post Empire).

\\\"Challenge and diversity make us strong. Too much protection can prevent us from learning, from reaching our potential. We can learn from others, but we must also learn from our own experiences. . . and our own mistakes.\\\" Luke Skywalker

\\\"An elegant weapon for a more civilized time, eh? Well, guess what? Times have changed!\\\" RC-01/138


June 28, 2016, 03:46:10 PMReply #8

Offline Pali

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 03:46:10 PM »
Your vague assurances are not very reassuring.

June 28, 2016, 05:26:04 PMReply #9

Offline kucsidave

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 05:26:04 PM »
Your vague assurances are not very reassuring.
Not at all.
And my personal friend lives in the UK, now fearing to lose his job, not to mention his girlfriend is there with him, so her job is at risk too. if they both lose their job, their lives will be ruined. Also, Mat you realize that now you British people have to do jobs like being bartenders, waitresses, and clean rooms in the hotels. Since British people demand these services, but would not do them since they consider them to be humiliating. And don't tell me you don't, I know exactly since my mother worked in a Hotel as a room cleaner for 20 years, and she herself said that the English people all looked at her like a garbage, even the messiest Chinese did not looked down on her.
You also said you will get more trade from outside EU. Well, maybe you will have new roads, but clearly not as many as in the EU, since your economy seems to be quite near to collapse at the moment.
You should realize that you are not that great empire you were once and you can't take on the world on your own anymore.
Look, I know you voted on leaving for a reason, but you might not have thought things though quite enough. Nor did more than half of your countrymen and women. life is not that easy that if we won't trade with EU we will trade with others. Others will now see that the UK lost a whole bunch of credibility. They see that you left your trading partners hanging in the air. Who wants to trade with someone like that? Nobody likes the idea that one day his trading partner just lets him there.
Reasons and consequences. UK only saw the reasons, but did not thought about the consequences.
And to quote a British living in the EU(I tell no name for a reason): "i want the world to basically kick our shit into the gutter while i laugh from the safe confines of my ******* home"
"i'll tell you what we are; arrogant"
a lot of people think that we can just relive the glory days of our empire and stand on our own against europe, and that nothing will happen to us because we're so big and powerful
we stood alone during WWII, we'll get through this just as we did back then"
to that I wrote:
"but you did not stand alone in WW II. without american supply convoys and troops you would have lost"
To that he said:
"yeah but a lot of us like to think that we did stand alone until 1944"
After a while talking about something else we returned to the subject and these were next:
"to leave the EU is also committing economic suicide
over the past 24 hours we're not #5 biggest economy anymore
we're now at #7"
And this went on and on...
But yeah, don't believe us. You are British, not Europeans. But count on that if the Scottish and Northern Irish will secede, since Scottish wants to stay in EU, then your economy will drop even further and you will have even more borders to defend. Also losing Northern Ireland would mean you lose control over the Northern Channel, which rips you away from further taxes, infrastructure and population, making England lose even more credibility. And you are lucky that Wales has no intention of separation because that would be the last nail in your coffin.
Just saying.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

June 28, 2016, 07:20:12 PMReply #10

Offline Mat8876

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 07:20:12 PM »
Maybe your right, maybe both me and all the other leave voters where short minded it's certainly a possibility but i do not believe it will be so serious that we will have such a large economic crisis.

Yes The UK isn't as big as it used to be but we are still a place where a lot of people have been / want to be. I find it highly unlikely that when we actually leave the EU that no one will want to come to our country for whatever they plan to do.

Presides we don't know what will happen all we can do is wait, There is little we can do at this moment in time.
A Member of the Imperial Alignment(Allies With The Shadow Post Empire).

\\\"Challenge and diversity make us strong. Too much protection can prevent us from learning, from reaching our potential. We can learn from others, but we must also learn from our own experiences. . . and our own mistakes.\\\" Luke Skywalker

\\\"An elegant weapon for a more civilized time, eh? Well, guess what? Times have changed!\\\" RC-01/138


June 28, 2016, 08:27:05 PMReply #11

Offline Pali

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 08:27:05 PM »
My main issue with the leave vote is that it seems to have been without any real plans attached to it, so it meant many different things to different people.  For some it was meant to give the EU a wake up call, a bit of impetus to reform, but it wasn't really a desire to separate.  For some it was a nationalist vote to cut down on Muslim immigrants, or a demand for economic sovereignty.  For others, it was yet other reasons.  The problem is that a momentous decision was made to do something, but with no prescription for how to go about doing it, and so now all these factions will get to argue with each other first to decide what they want, and then they'll have to argue with the EU as to what it will grant - we are talking months at least, if not years, of economic and personal insecurity for millions of people while all these details are hammered out. 

I am not a fan of simple yes/no referendums on complex topics, and this kind of uncertainty is why.  In the USA, people who vote to deport millions of illegals are usually doing the same thing - ignoring the details and the chaos such a decision will cause purely by virtue of it being made, regardless of how it is implemented.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:30:46 PM by Pali »

June 29, 2016, 05:00:30 AMReply #12

Offline kucsidave

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 05:00:30 AM »
I certainly hope that your country will somehow stabilize, because if not it will be horrible for the people living there. I certainly wish the best for you, despite everything.
I know what it is like when one's country was once at the top of the world and still wants to be, we just realized the sad truth that we can't.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

June 29, 2016, 11:24:54 AMReply #13

Offline Helix345

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 11:24:54 AM »
Are we talking about the brexit vote that essentially said "**** you" to all the young people in Britain?

June 29, 2016, 11:57:43 AMReply #14

Offline Mat8876

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 11:57:43 AM »
How did it say that they could vote on it.

In fact most 18 - 24 year olds in the country didn't vote.
A Member of the Imperial Alignment(Allies With The Shadow Post Empire).

\\\"Challenge and diversity make us strong. Too much protection can prevent us from learning, from reaching our potential. We can learn from others, but we must also learn from our own experiences. . . and our own mistakes.\\\" Luke Skywalker

\\\"An elegant weapon for a more civilized time, eh? Well, guess what? Times have changed!\\\" RC-01/138


June 29, 2016, 12:07:18 PMReply #15

Offline Helix345

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2016, 12:07:18 PM »
To start with, a lot of British universities are given funding from the EU, not to mention that students who are part of the EU have easy access to education in many different EU countries. Also, the young people are the ones who will feel the repercussions of separating from the world's largest economy. 

June 29, 2016, 05:30:09 PMReply #16

Offline Pali

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 05:30:09 PM »
The generation gap was interesting - it reminded me somewhat of the Democratic primary in the US this year, with Bernie having the young, Hillary the old.  It's always a bit strange to see a decision made based on the will of those who will have to live with its consequences the least amount of time, but that's what happens when a demographic doesn't turnout very well.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 05:31:52 PM by Pali »

June 29, 2016, 09:16:05 PMReply #17

Offline Helix345

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2016, 09:16:05 PM »
Personally, I didn't think that Bernie's policies were realistic

June 29, 2016, 11:05:19 PMReply #18

Offline Pali

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2016, 11:05:19 PM »
They weren't.  Personally, I supported him not because I thought any of his proposals would pass, but because I wanted someone who would help pull the Overton window of American politics away from its current right-wing infestation, someone whose starting point in negotiations wasn't already corporatist.  I don't think Clinton will be a bad President, but she historically has been a neo-liberal corporatist on economic issues.

June 30, 2016, 01:54:06 AMReply #19

Offline kucsidave

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2016, 01:54:06 AM »
Right wing everywhere. even here in hungary. What is going on here?
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

 

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