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Author Topic: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread  (Read 27133 times)

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January 31, 2012, 05:48:43 AM

Offline Corey

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1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« on: January 31, 2012, 05:48:43 AM »
Tell us what you think of the latest version of this mod. Write a review, tell us we suck or suggest changes. If you have a major suggestion (units, faction changes, planets, etc) feel free to start another thread.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 05:58:58 AM by Corey »
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January 31, 2012, 10:27:47 AMReply #1

Offline Kratas

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 10:27:47 AM »
Well It is far better than I thought it would be after last years troubles and really like the different GCs,especially the hunt for zsinj.
However the empire don't really have any interesting new land units,theres the white speeder which i haven't found to be very useful. The ATPT is quite good,the zsinj exclusive units are great,but I keep finding myself falling back on ATATs whilst the rebels spam me with a myriad of speeders,but this isnt really that much of a complaint though perhaps the white speeder could have shields?

Infantry is far too weak,yes it's realistic but not necessarily great in terms of gameplay. Although if you just slowed down the main infantry rate of fire then this would probably be fixed,because Ive not seen the original films in a while but don't the infantry usually fire one shot at a time anyway,usually?
Oh and how about to make up for the reduced fire rates you could introduce units with the E-web blaster turret which could get the original,or faster,rates of fire.

January 31, 2012, 12:53:24 PMReply #2

Offline Lucinator

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 12:53:24 PM »
hey not sure if the AI is changed in 1.3 but I find that when playing on easy the rebels have a very hard time in AOW light.  I mean it is easy I should not be losing world after world.  It might be the starting forces are two weak or because of the cost of golans or the fact that the rebels are spread out but I just cant seem to gain any ground in it.

PS: still find chis underpowered in space combat, I had one ion cannon two quasars, two dreadnoughts, and a couple of cor corvettes against a acendancy class, two phalanx class, one of the stardestroyer heroes and three Chafs and I won losing only one quasar and two y wings.

January 31, 2012, 01:10:16 PMReply #3

Offline Slornie

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 01:10:16 PM »
If your EotH victory was also against an Easy AI, bear in mind that Easy means AI units do 30% less damage and have 30% less health and shield strength than normal.  Not to mention that powerful ground-based weaponry gives you a huge advantage over any fleet.
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January 31, 2012, 01:44:53 PMReply #4

Offline Corey

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 01:44:53 PM »
Quote
hey not sure if the AI is changed in 1.3 but I find that when playing on easy the rebels have a very hard time in AOW light.  I mean it is easy I should not be losing world after world.  It might be the starting forces are two weak or because of the cost of golans or the fact that the rebels are spread out but I just cant seem to gain any ground in it.

Since we don't have any access to the actual AI files without saving them to Data, which we really didn't want to do becase it might have effects on other mods, the only way we could make them attack at all with the changes we've made to other aspects was really beefing the AI up, but since I seem to be finding myself typing this at least once a day we're going to change it anyways which should resolve that issue.


PS: still find chis underpowered in space combat, I had one ion cannon two quasars, two dreadnoughts, and a couple of cor corvettes against a acendancy class, two phalanx class, one of the stardestroyer heroes and three Chafs and I won losing only one quasar and two y wings.

We get half the people telling us they're overpowered, and the other half underpowered. Statistically the Phalanx is ranked 4th for Damage per second (451, coming after the three Supers), and Ascendancy is 7th, with 317. Dreadnaughts are 29th with 72. You'll find similar differences for health. If this is a common occurance the only possibilitity is that they have worse targeting for some reason, but despite my attempts I've never been able to recreate this.

Quote
However the empire don't really have any interesting new land units,theres the white speeder which i haven't found to be very useful. The ATPT is quite good,the zsinj exclusive units are great,but I keep finding myself falling back on ATATs whilst the rebels spam me with a myriad of speeders,but this isnt really that much of a complaint though perhaps the white speeder could have shields?

The Chariot LAV, which I assume is the speeder you're talking about, isn't meant for direct front line combat, espwecially vs other vehicles. It isn't our design, we can't give them shields any more than we could to the AT-AT. If you want a more powerful new unit for the Empire, use the XR-85. It's only Era 3+, however.

Quote
Infantry is far too weak,yes it's realistic but not necessarily great in terms of gameplay. Although if you just slowed down the main infantry rate of fire then this would probably be fixed,because Ive not seen the original films in a while but don't the infantry usually fire one shot at a time anyway,usually?

If you think they're too weak, why would you want the firing rates lowered? As far as guns go in SW, they aren't all one shot at a time. Some are auto or semi-auto.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 01:56:13 PM by Corey »
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January 31, 2012, 01:57:15 PMReply #5

Online yutpaeksi

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 01:57:15 PM »
If your EotH victory was also against an Easy AI, bear in mind that Easy means AI units do 30% less damage and have 30% less health and shield strength than normal.  Not to mention that powerful ground-based weaponry gives you a huge advantage over any fleet.

Actually with 1.3, now that the Golan bug is fixed, I feel that ground based weaponry is overpowered when it's everywhere. Jumping into an IR system invariably leads to an opening blast from a hypervelocity gun. Especially since the EtoH lack both ground based weaponry and Golans, it feels a bit unfair at times. I propose that in 1.4, ion cannons and hypervelocity cannons be restricted to key systems, like the way Golan IIs and IIIs are. There's no way the IR would ever build a hypervelocity cannon on Pantolomin or the NR would put an ion cannon on Ukio. Tactically this also forces the player to make some difficult choices: make a stand over a less important system against Isard and the Lusankya or try to lure her to another system where an ion cannon can give you a great advantage?

In more general terms, I think the 1.3  AI is a little bit easier than 1.2. I've been playing AoW Lite a lot, and I feel like I'm being attacked a lot less often, especially with significant fleets. I suspect part of this is the priority being given to Golan building. The AI does build them, but the construction time lost to Golans is time taken away from fleet building. This is especially true at the beginning of GCs, when the AI seems to build things in this order: Light shipyard -> Golans -> Heavy frigate shipyard -> capital shipyard. So early on you can take several systems before the AI can even manage some kind of response.

I suggest beefing up the AI's starting force composition, perhaps a few more capital ships, especially for the IR. Even after the battle of Endor, there should still have been thousands of active Star Destroyers. While the warlords took a lot of them, when they banded back together into the IR, the Imperial Navy should still be a force to be reckoned with.

I also agree that some of the IR's build options are a bit redundant. The Chariot LAV is rarely useful. It's laser cannon is weak, and its only positives are decent speed and repulsorlifts. The hovertanks are much better. I rarely, if ever, find myself building the Chariots. As for the AT-PT, I've also found that to be a redundant unit. It seems to be a tougher, better armed version of the AT-ST, but so that seems silly. I'd argue that since the AT-PT was an Old Republic unit, it should instead be given to the NR, since the Rebel Alliance used a lot of Clone Wars era stuff. This would also help give the NR army more diversity. Also, I'm surprised you added the NR specialist. I sort of liked that only the IR had a repair specialist, since the NR has the infiltrator. Oh, and a minor bug thing, but the NR specialist has a weapon but the IR specialist does not.

Also, I noticed that you got rid of friendly fire damage from bombing runs. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. If you call for a bombing run, you should get your own troops out of the way or be more careful with the bombing runs.

The EtoH completely lacks static defenses, which i kind of like. It makes mobility and firepower their focus. I like the lack of ground based space weaponry and Golans, but I don't agree with the lack of build pad options they have in land battles. All they can build is a repair station (an expensive repair station at that) and a practically useless sensor node. This puts them at a disadvantage in defensive land battles because you can only have 10 units stationed, plus garrisons.

EDIT: However, the garrison composition of the EtoH capital shipyard seems to be on the low side. You get two Vigilances, two Decimators, and two Warlords, but no Karieks or Chaf frigates? Considering the fact that the EtoH don't get Golans or ground based space weapons, this is a really weak garrison...After all, the light shipyards already get one Vig, one Dec, and one Kariek in addition to the fighters...

All in all, 1.3 is a great improvement over 1.2, and incredibly fun to play as always. Great job guys.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 01:42:50 AM by yutpaeksi »
"That's not what the Empire would have done, Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits, employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors, and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."
―Han Solo, to Vana Dorja

January 31, 2012, 02:08:50 PMReply #6

Offline Lucinator

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 02:08:50 PM »
Tried the camas crisis campain and found the same A.I. issue, i keep getting spam attacked before I can do any sort of defense building and the attacks just keep coming im not able to munt a proper defense or even get a force for a counter attack built.   It's kinda ruined the mod for me.

January 31, 2012, 02:31:44 PMReply #7

Offline Corey

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 02:31:44 PM »
Also, I noticed that you got rid of friendly fire damage from bombing runs. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. If you call for a bombing run, you should get your own troops out of the way or be more careful with the bombing runs.

The problem here is that making them do friendly damage means they can kill the bombers themselves (and quite often do on maps like Jomark and Kuat), which results in the game crashing. I completely agree that people should have to be smart about the bombing runs, but it's hard for us to justify a crash as an in-game risk, especially when the AI has no way of knowing.

Quote
I also agree that some of the IR's build options are a bit redundant. The Chariot LAV is rarely useful. It's laser cannon is weak, and its only positives are decent speed and repulsorlifts. The hovertanks are much better. I rarely, if ever, find myself building the Chariots. As for the AT-PT, I've also found that to be a redundant unit. It seems to be a tougher, better armed version of the AT-ST, but so that seems silly. I'd argue that since the AT-PT was an Old Republic unit, it should instead be given to the NR, since the Rebel Alliance used a lot of Clone Wars era stuff. This would also help give the NR army more diversity. Also, I'm surprised you added the NR specialist. I sort of liked that only the IR had a repair specialist, since the NR has the infiltrator. Oh, and a minor bug thing, but the NR specialist has a weapon but the IR specialist does not.
We're going to be focusing more on ground for the next version, but as far as the Chariot goes, that's supposed to be its function; it's only meant as a light scout/command type vehicle, so if you're using more than one company of them and for any other purpose it's probably a bad idea. It'll probably be smaller and faster (and less ugly) next version, but it's never going to be useful for direct combat against anything but infantry.

Neither the Rebel Alliance nor the New Republic really used much Clone Wars era stuff, actually. For the AT-PT, it'll probably be edited like everything else when we do the balance adjustments, but as far as availability goes, I could only ever find mentions of the Empire using them after the Clone Wars, never anything about the Rebellion/NR. It makes more sense that way, too, seeing as the Empire was directly formed out of the Republic.

For the Specialists, healing and repairing is much more in the NR's modus operandi than the IR's.
Tried the camas crisis campain and found the same A.I. issue, i keep getting spam attacked before I can do any sort of defense building and the attacks just keep coming im not able to munt a proper defense or even get a force for a counter attack built.   It's kinda ruined the mod for me.

The AI is, if anything, less attacky than it was in previous versions. Like I said, we didn't want to actually edit it before because we didn't want to interfere with other mods, but it seems that some other mods are already doing it and people bring this up a lot, so we've decided to do it anyways and we'll release a patch when we've changed it. I've attached a DifficultyAdjustments.xml with way lower values for the AI. It should stop them from attacking you as much as the do, however they may stop attacking altogether (Which is why we chose the higher values in the first place).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 02:34:32 PM by Corey »
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January 31, 2012, 08:37:10 PMReply #8

Online yutpaeksi

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 08:37:10 PM »
Also, did you get rid of capture bonuses for the EtoH in the Camaas Crisis? I've taken N'Zoth, Coruscant, Kuat and have received nothing...
"That's not what the Empire would have done, Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits, employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors, and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."
―Han Solo, to Vana Dorja

January 31, 2012, 08:38:40 PMReply #9

Offline Corey

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 08:38:40 PM »
Apparently the file got switched, it'll be fixed.
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February 01, 2012, 01:13:20 AMReply #10

Offline Willhelm

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 01:13:20 AM »
Just did a battle over hapes in the into the cluster and well when i brought in a crimson command ship i was chocked to see that i was only a slightly pinkish hued grey... Is this a bug or how the map works orrr are they actually like that?

plus in description of modular task force cruisers it says they release 3 tie droid squadrons (works fine) and 6 tie bomber squadrons which im certain it doesn't spawn. is this just a bug in the description or the ship?

other wise im REALLY liking the mod so far good job and thanks

February 01, 2012, 01:21:13 AMReply #11

Offline Corey

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 01:21:13 AM »
Just did a battle over hapes in the into the cluster and well when i brought in a crimson command ship i was chocked to see that i was only a slightly pinkish hued grey... Is this a bug or how the map works orrr are they actually like that?

They all have Team Colour enabled for the whole thing, so if you're on a lower detail level the skin won't show up properly.
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February 01, 2012, 02:57:21 PMReply #12

Offline fFoxfire

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 02:57:21 PM »
I will say this of the new GC's i've played I love Into the cluster it really seems to me the most balanced CG with no clear advantage on either side, Sucks to be Hapes as they dont stand a chance, but at least they can fight back.

As for Empire At War CG it seems a bit to easy for empire, the EOTH and Warlords seem to duke it out, allowing the small part of the empire you do have to build and easily take over, however it is a great CG that uses the minor factions greatly.

In the new Hunt for Zsjin I do like now how you can build hapen units it really does now feel like  coalition, and even on the Zsjin side now alot more challenging and not just a simple rush w/ SSD to win!

Also still a bit disappointed that there is still the HUTT planets in OP Shadow Hand when there is no hut faction giving the NR free planets.


February 02, 2012, 07:24:15 PMReply #13

Online yutpaeksi

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 07:24:15 PM »
I've tried out several more of the GCs and i wanted to add my two bits here. I like the beefed up initial forces (I'm not imagining that, right?) for all sides. I recall starting a GC in 1.2 as the IR and fielding 30 lancer frigates and nothing else...

The Into the Cluster GC is really fun. It's short but a blast. It's a little strange the the NR would want to smash through Hapes to get to the IR but whatever, they're Jedi hating pirates anyway...

I also really like the Empires at War GC but I agree that the IR has a distinct advantage at the opening. Especially since the Eclipse's superlaser can take out the Pride of Yevetha in one shot...

Operation Shadow Hand is also a lot easier for the NR as they can take several neutral planets right away, and can seal off a border quickly.

But In each era GC, it's understandable that some sides have it easier than others. After all, canonically the NR starts weaker after the Battle of Endor and then grows into the galaxy spanning force it is by the time of the Camaas Crisis. In my opinion, the best balanced GC is still the Thrawn Campaign. And I like to play the era GCs as what I consider the weaker faction to start, makes it a bit more challenging.

One thing I'd like to bring up, that I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is the lack of surprise attacks by the CPU. I hated the old Rebel raiding option but it did force you to actually maintain garrisons in systems behind your lines. Also,  the EtoH Phalanx commandos are sometimes fun to use to try to take a planet by surprise, but the AI never even attempts this. I'd also like to propose the elimination of the early warning system of incoming fleets. There shouldn't be such a system in place all the time for every faction. Also this would make the EtoH's intelligence advantage even more distinctive.

"That's not what the Empire would have done, Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits, employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors, and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."
―Han Solo, to Vana Dorja

February 03, 2012, 09:56:43 PMReply #14

Offline Willhelm

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 09:56:43 PM »
We're going to be focusing more on ground for the next version, but as far as the Chariot goes, that's supposed to be its function; it's only meant as a light scout/command type vehicle, so if you're using more than one company of them and for any other purpose it's probably a bad idea. It'll probably be smaller and faster (and less ugly) next version, but it's never going to be useful for direct combat against anything but infantry.
If your saying its going to be a command vehicle perhaps it could supply minor bonus's to troops making them slightly more tactically logical

Playing into the cluster GC and well my observations are coronas are REALLY tough, and i re-encountered the space commander spam and then got annoyed and quite :P

is there anything you guys can do to stop it?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:06:10 AM by Corey »

February 04, 2012, 04:07:33 AMReply #15

Offline Corey

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 04:07:33 AM »
If your saying its going to be a command vehicle perhaps it could supply minor bonus's to troops making them slightly more tactically logical

Playing into the cluster GC and well my observations are coronas are REALLY tough, and i re-encountered the space commander spam and then got annoyed and quite :P

is there anything you guys can do to stop it?

Regarding the suggestion for the Chariot, we already have plans for another unit to have that kind of function. The Corona balance issue has been mentioned, it will be addressed. As for the commander spam, I'll look into it again.
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February 04, 2012, 10:15:09 PMReply #16

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 10:15:09 PM »
Just downloaded and installed this mod recently for the first time.  Gotta say, overall great job.  Wish it was a bit faster at going to battles and leaving battles, but the battles themselves usually go pretty good (although NR land battles go sluggish as anything, but that's to be expected when they have maximum units of those aac-170 or whatever they're called blasting me to death).  Definitely the most original mod I've ever played.  Just wanted to congratulate all the people involved in a job well done.  Makes one of my still favorite games that much more fun.

Oh, and AWESOME job on Empire of the Hand.  Hard to win as them as they really lack anything that can contest the IR's SSD's (in those eras they have them), but nevertheless absolutely awesome to play.  Still enjoy playing the IR best though.  Build my 3 Executors and that have Isaard comit suicide to get a real hero (GO THRAWNY!!).  I try to keep him well defended so I don't ever go past era 2 though.  Although the Reborn Emperor should be fun and building Sovereigns.  Those are my overall most favorite SD's other than the Pallaeon that's in whatever mod is that takes place in the Fell Empire timeframe.
People should not be afraid of their government...governments should be afraid of their people.

February 04, 2012, 10:34:43 PMReply #17

Offline Corey

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 10:34:43 PM »
Hey, glad you enjoy it.

The loading times are outside of our control, and the Nr's ground lag is because of a model bug for the infantry, it'll be fixed.

As far as the EotH goes, their ships of the line are more than capable of beating SSDs if used properly. If that werent true and we were just to put another SSD in for them, then every fight basically turns into an SSD race. Any faction can handle them if done properly, especially EotH
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 10:39:15 PM by Corey »
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February 05, 2012, 02:21:46 AMReply #18

Offline Meyer

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2012, 02:21:46 AM »
Should the NR be able to build K-wings during the Thrawn campaign? They were first used against the Yevetha during Black Fleet Crisis as far as I know
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February 05, 2012, 02:22:27 AMReply #19

Offline tlmiller

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Re: 1.3 General Review and Feedback Thread
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2012, 02:22:27 AM »
Yeah, I know you can win as them, I'm just saying in so far as space superiority is concerned, their cap ships are generally the weakest.  Probably the coolest looking, but weakest.

Although that brings up a point.  Do the megamasers do more damage than turbolaser emplacements?  Or are they basically identical in terms of damage?
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