Those working on this mod do so in their own free time and for no pay.
Show your support for them by enabling ads on this site!

Author Topic: Last Person to Post Wins  (Read 819555 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

November 17, 2016, 04:12:08 PMReply #1520

Offline Illidan Stormrage

  • Admiral
  • *******
  • Posts: 775
  • Approval: +17/-10
  • Killing a Emperor doesnt end a Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1520 on: November 17, 2016, 04:12:08 PM »
I'm sorry but this Simpsons science is too funny and involves Germany




But here is a question. How many people has the German military killed through all wars.
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
"Your Memes will make a fine addition to my collection"
"YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

November 18, 2016, 02:04:32 AMReply #1521

Offline kucsidave

  • Mod Team Member
  • Grand Admiral
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,018
  • Approval: +44/-4
  • Don't fear your Demons. Make them fear YOU.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1521 on: November 18, 2016, 02:04:32 AM »
nobody knows. Historians tend to "overestimate" the number of dead people on the allies side to "show how bad and monstrous the nazis were". Who knows what they are doing with the german?
This also happens with the Jews died in the holocaust. Originaly there weren't more dead than a few hundred thousand, now some people states the number were in the millions.
The actual f*ck?
I think the ones counted and buried the corpses made a better job than some lousy people trying to guess a number just to make themselves famous.
And no, I don't agree to what they did, and in fact despise the fact, but also have to give them credit where it is due.
We can't be ignorant, not even if we don't like the facts.
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

November 18, 2016, 03:12:38 PMReply #1522

Offline Lord Xizer

  • Tester
  • Grand Moff
  • *
  • Posts: 3,222
  • Approval: +134/-14
  • Nothing shall withstand my ambition.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1522 on: November 18, 2016, 03:12:38 PM »
nobody knows. Historians tend to "overestimate" the number of dead people on the allies side to "show how bad and monstrous the nazis were". Who knows what they are doing with the german?
This also happens with the Jews died in the holocaust. Originaly there weren't more dead than a few hundred thousand, now some people states the number were in the millions.
The actual f*ck?
I think the ones counted and buried the corpses made a better job than some lousy people trying to guess a number just to make themselves famous.
And no, I don't agree to what they did, and in fact despise the fact, but also have to give them credit where it is due.
We can't be ignorant, not even if we don't like the facts.

To be fair, the Eastern front casualties were on a scale never before or since seen. 23.5 million both sides all told.
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

November 18, 2016, 03:51:20 PMReply #1523

Offline Illidan Stormrage

  • Admiral
  • *******
  • Posts: 775
  • Approval: +17/-10
  • Killing a Emperor doesnt end a Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1523 on: November 18, 2016, 03:51:20 PM »
To be fair, the Eastern front casualties were on a scale never before or since seen. 23.5 million both sides all told.
that's equivalent to at least 200 battles of somme in ww1
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
"Your Memes will make a fine addition to my collection"
"YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

November 19, 2016, 07:08:24 PMReply #1524

Offline Helix345

  • Vice Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 284
  • Approval: +8/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1524 on: November 19, 2016, 07:08:24 PM »
while I know that genocide is bad and all, I think Hitler and Mussolini should be given more credit for rebuilding the economies of countries that had essentially been bombed to the point where two story building didn't exist anymore.

November 19, 2016, 08:53:50 PMReply #1525

Offline Lord Xizer

  • Tester
  • Grand Moff
  • *
  • Posts: 3,222
  • Approval: +134/-14
  • Nothing shall withstand my ambition.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1525 on: November 19, 2016, 08:53:50 PM »
while I know that genocide is bad and all, I think Hitler and Mussolini should be given more credit for rebuilding the economies of countries that had essentially been bombed to the point where two story building didn't exist anymore.

Ugh...Italy and Germany weren't bombed in WWI...there was an economic collapse but the entire infrastructure was intact. It was due to the global stock market crash and in Germany the reparations.
Also it's easy to stimulate the economy when you annex a lot of former provinces and also steal everything from a section of your population to funnel back into the main.
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

November 19, 2016, 10:59:40 PMReply #1526

Offline Illidan Stormrage

  • Admiral
  • *******
  • Posts: 775
  • Approval: +17/-10
  • Killing a Emperor doesnt end a Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1526 on: November 19, 2016, 10:59:40 PM »
Ugh...Italy and Germany weren't bombed in WWI...there was an economic collapse but the entire infrastructure was intact. It was due to the global stock market crash and in Germany the reparations.
Also it's easy to stimulate the economy when you annex a lot of former provinces and also steal everything from a section of your population to funnel back into the main.
Ummm not really Xizer. The Treaty of Versailles punish Germany very curely and forced them into debt, and then the stock market crash made it worst. Germany lost all of its military might, territory, and resources.



MUHHAHSHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA TIME FOR FUNNY VIDEOES
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 12:01:33 AM by AdmrialThrawn2 »
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
"Your Memes will make a fine addition to my collection"
"YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

November 20, 2016, 07:43:05 AMReply #1527

Offline Tortique

  • Brevet Admiral
  • ****
  • Posts: 40
  • Approval: +1/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1527 on: November 20, 2016, 07:43:05 AM »
while I know that genocide is bad and all, I think Hitler and Mussolini should be given more credit for rebuilding the economies of countries that had essentially been bombed to the point where two story building didn't exist anymore.
Economies that could only work when you're robbing your neighbours. Shortly: no war  - no spoils of war - no economy.

To be fair, the Eastern front casualties were on a scale never before or since seen. 23.5 million both sides all told.
If you add civilian casualties of USSR you'll get another 10 millions. Wounds left after this war in people's mentality aren't healed even today.

November 20, 2016, 02:23:00 PMReply #1528

Offline Lord Xizer

  • Tester
  • Grand Moff
  • *
  • Posts: 3,222
  • Approval: +134/-14
  • Nothing shall withstand my ambition.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1528 on: November 20, 2016, 02:23:00 PM »
Ummm not really Xizer. The Treaty of Versailles punish Germany very curely and forced them into debt, and then the stock market crash made it worst. Germany lost all of its military might, territory, and resources.

 I am aware of that, as you will have noted in my post. What I was disputing was the 'bombed out buildings and rubble' quote. Germany was not bombed in WWI. It was blockaded. The country as a whole escaped large scale devastation.
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

November 20, 2016, 06:03:47 PMReply #1529

Offline Illidan Stormrage

  • Admiral
  • *******
  • Posts: 775
  • Approval: +17/-10
  • Killing a Emperor doesnt end a Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1529 on: November 20, 2016, 06:03:47 PM »
I am aware of that, as you will have noted in my post. What I was disputing was the 'bombed out buildings and rubble' quote. Germany was not bombed in WWI. It was blockaded. The country as a whole escaped large scale devastation.
okay man alright. Btw did you see those two videos I posted :)
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
"Your Memes will make a fine addition to my collection"
"YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

November 21, 2016, 12:13:00 PMReply #1530

Offline Corey

  • Mod Leader
  • Administrator
  • Emperor
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,520
  • Approval: +410/-80
  • Dream Crusher
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1530 on: November 21, 2016, 12:13:00 PM »
Quote
All of which have been largely forgotten by mainstream history and society as the true bulwarks they were.

What does "mainstream history" mean? If you mean academic historians, then that's definitely not true. If you mean popular public history, then that's only true in that the only things most of the general public read about in the first place is WWII stuff, so it's kind of an irrelevant statement since you could make the same claim about almost anything.


nobody knows. Historians tend to "overestimate" the number of dead people on the allies side to "show how bad and monstrous the nazis were". Who knows what they are doing with the german?
This also happens with the Jews died in the holocaust. Originaly there weren't more dead than a few hundred thousand, now some people states the number were in the millions.
The actual f*ck?
I think the ones counted and buried the corpses made a better job than some lousy people trying to guess a number just to make themselves famous.
And no, I don't agree to what they did, and in fact despise the fact, but also have to give them credit where it is due.
We can't be ignorant, not even if we don't like the facts.

That's just blatantly not true and putting it only in the hundreds of thousands is next to holocaust denialism. Saying these numbers were just "made up by people trying to get famous" is a pretty ignorant statement when it comes to actual historical research methods/historiography. What are you even basing that assertion on? Early counts and estimates, regardless of the source, were consistent with the 5-6 million count depending on what you include, and that means Nazi sources as well. Even conservative estimates working only off of people who were 100% documented put it at least at 3 million. Poland alone had a population of around 3 million Jewish people, and there alone 90% of the Jewish population was killed in the Holocaust. Also, if you're saying the Nazi documentation is what you should go off of, their own estimates and records put it at 6 million as well.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 12:18:38 PM by Corey »
I also have a YouTube channel where I talk about mod development and gaming, do tutorials, and Let's Plays. If you like the content, consider supporting it on Patreon


November 22, 2016, 07:54:39 PMReply #1531

Offline Lord Xizer

  • Tester
  • Grand Moff
  • *
  • Posts: 3,222
  • Approval: +134/-14
  • Nothing shall withstand my ambition.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1531 on: November 22, 2016, 07:54:39 PM »
What does "mainstream history" mean? If you mean academic historians, then that's definitely not true. If you mean popular public history, then that's only true in that the only things most of the general public read about in the first place is WWII stuff, so it's kind of an irrelevant statement since you could make the same claim about almost anything.


That's just blatantly not true and putting it only in the hundreds of thousands is next to holocaust denialism. Saying these numbers were just "made up by people trying to get famous" is a pretty ignorant statement when it comes to actual historical research methods/historiography. What are you even basing that assertion on? Early counts and estimates, regardless of the source, were consistent with the 5-6 million count depending on what you include, and that means Nazi sources as well. Even conservative estimates working only off of people who were 100% documented put it at least at 3 million. Poland alone had a population of around 3 million Jewish people, and there alone 90% of the Jewish population was killed in the Holocaust. Also, if you're saying the Nazi documentation is what you should go off of, their own estimates and records put it at 6 million as well.

Also the nazis kept a lot of records themselves. They were alarmingly efficient when it came to mass extermination and documenting it
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

November 23, 2016, 01:50:30 AMReply #1532

Offline kucsidave

  • Mod Team Member
  • Grand Admiral
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,018
  • Approval: +44/-4
  • Don't fear your Demons. Make them fear YOU.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1532 on: November 23, 2016, 01:50:30 AM »
Also the nazis kept a lot of records themselves. They were alarmingly efficient when it came to mass extermination and documenting it
Especially if they used them for research purposes. and they did, in order to prove that the arians were supperior
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

November 23, 2016, 10:10:42 AMReply #1533

Offline Illidan Stormrage

  • Admiral
  • *******
  • Posts: 775
  • Approval: +17/-10
  • Killing a Emperor doesnt end a Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1533 on: November 23, 2016, 10:10:42 AM »
Especially if they used them for research purposes. and they did, in order to prove that the arians were supperior
yeah Dave the American Government launch operations to get Nazi scientist into our country before they were killed by other World powers.
The Men who subject Jews to cruel experiment, brought Americas Ability to fight viruses, and create advance technology for the greater good of America.
The Soviets did this as well since we know they had Nazi rocket scientists to build ballistic missiles and other things
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
"Your Memes will make a fine addition to my collection"
"YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

November 23, 2016, 10:49:35 AMReply #1534

Offline Lord Xizer

  • Tester
  • Grand Moff
  • *
  • Posts: 3,222
  • Approval: +134/-14
  • Nothing shall withstand my ambition.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1534 on: November 23, 2016, 10:49:35 AM »
yeah Dave the American Government launch operations to get Nazi scientist into our country before they were killed by other World powers.
The Men who subject Jews to cruel experiment, brought Americas Ability to fight viruses, and create advance technology for the greater good of America.
The Soviets did this as well since we know they had Nazi rocket scientists to build ballistic missiles and other things

Well it wasn't before other countries KILLED them so much as used them for their own agendas. After WWII the Allies and Soviets were scooping up Nazi scientists like hot cakes. Don't believe me? Go into NASA sometime and yell Heil hitler! They all jump right up.
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

November 23, 2016, 12:31:49 PMReply #1535

Offline Corey

  • Mod Leader
  • Administrator
  • Emperor
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,520
  • Approval: +410/-80
  • Dream Crusher
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1535 on: November 23, 2016, 12:31:49 PM »
I also have a YouTube channel where I talk about mod development and gaming, do tutorials, and Let's Plays. If you like the content, consider supporting it on Patreon


November 24, 2016, 05:46:23 AMReply #1536

Offline Pali

  • Tester
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 790
  • Approval: +39/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1536 on: November 24, 2016, 05:46:23 AM »
Go into NASA sometime and yell Heil hitler! They all jump right up.

Yes, but it's in outrage, not agreement.

Von Braun and other German scientists were certainly considered incredibly valuable after the war ended, and the Western powers grabbed as many as they could without much care for their political ideologies.  But I think it worth reminding ourselves that many of them were not ideological Nazis/fascists, any more than US scientists today would suddenly become ideological Republicans because of Trump decrees (regardless of what they call themselves in the moment for pragmatic reasons).  In Wernher von Braun's case, his degree of allegiance to the Nazi party is unclear - he stipulated that he joined for political reasons, as not doing so would have effectively ended his career, though it's been argued that this was a post hoc justification and that, while very likely not a party enthusiast, he may have been more supportive at the time than he later would admit.  Similarly, he joined the SS, but he claimed after the war that this was again a largely political move, and that he did so to keep working on rocketry - his specific field of research from before the Nazi party even existed, and again, claims exist that he was a bit more supportive than not (claims that he would wear the party pin or SS uniform even if not required to, not claims of public speech or more substantial action).

I tend to think that the song has it right: he was pretty much a non-ideological pragmatist who largely cared most about his career/work.  I've got no objection to recruiting people like that.  Edit: They're not heroes, but in truth, I've got more in common with them than I do the heroes.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 05:56:06 AM by Pali »

November 24, 2016, 06:07:45 AMReply #1537

Offline kucsidave

  • Mod Team Member
  • Grand Admiral
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,018
  • Approval: +44/-4
  • Don't fear your Demons. Make them fear YOU.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1537 on: November 24, 2016, 06:07:45 AM »
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche

November 24, 2016, 10:42:55 AMReply #1538

Offline Illidan Stormrage

  • Admiral
  • *******
  • Posts: 775
  • Approval: +17/-10
  • Killing a Emperor doesnt end a Empire
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1538 on: November 24, 2016, 10:42:55 AM »
:) muhhahahahhahhahahahahahahhaha
"The Empire did nothing wrong obviously" :)
"Your Memes will make a fine addition to my collection"
"YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

November 24, 2016, 12:26:05 PMReply #1539

Offline Lord Xizer

  • Tester
  • Grand Moff
  • *
  • Posts: 3,222
  • Approval: +134/-14
  • Nothing shall withstand my ambition.
    • View Profile
Re: Last Person to Post Wins
« Reply #1539 on: November 24, 2016, 12:26:05 PM »
Yes, but it's in outrage, not agreement.

Von Braun and other German scientists were certainly considered incredibly valuable after the war ended, and the Western powers grabbed as many as they could without much care for their political ideologies.  But I think it worth reminding ourselves that many of them were not ideological Nazis/fascists, any more than US scientists today would suddenly become ideological Republicans because of Trump decrees (regardless of what they call themselves in the moment for pragmatic reasons).  In Wernher von Braun's case, his degree of allegiance to the Nazi party is unclear - he stipulated that he joined for political reasons, as not doing so would have effectively ended his career, though it's been argued that this was a post hoc justification and that, while very likely not a party enthusiast, he may have been more supportive at the time than he later would admit.  Similarly, he joined the SS, but he claimed after the war that this was again a largely political move, and that he did so to keep working on rocketry - his specific field of research from before the Nazi party even existed, and again, claims exist that he was a bit more supportive than not (claims that he would wear the party pin or SS uniform even if not required to, not claims of public speech or more substantial action).

I tend to think that the song has it right: he was pretty much a non-ideological pragmatist who largely cared most about his career/work.  I've got no objection to recruiting people like that.  Edit: They're not heroes, but in truth, I've got more in common with them than I do the heroes.

I know lol I was making an Archer reference. Also just because someone reacts and does the salute it can be out of reflexive fear
"I do not intend to be the Emperor's servant forever..."-High Inquisitor Jerec

"The New Order has never fallen. Only the Emperor."-Grand Moff Ardus Kaine

 

Those working on this mod do so in their own free time and for no pay.
Show your support for them by enabling ads on this site!