Thrawn's Revenge

Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus on May 10, 2017, 08:08:45 PM

Title: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus on May 10, 2017, 08:08:45 PM
This will probably be a long read, so I apologize in advance for it. First of all, I want to acknowledge Corey and his team, and the wonderful work they did with the various versions of ICW and Ascendancy, and are doing now with FotR. All of it was a heckload of work, which they did for free in their free time. As someone who's been in love with the TR mods for a while now, I'm only wishing to maybe start a discussion on a topic which I think might be interesting to some people here, only theoretically. I'm not actually suggesting to Corey and Co. anything, because they have already informed us of their plans for the near future, and it already promises a lot of great releases, and also I would love the guys to have as much free time (aside from modding) as possible, because they deserve it more than anyone for the amazing work that they do on a constant and professional level.

I'm not sure if most of the people here have ever played Stellaris, or I'm hoping that maybe you've at least seen the videos of it on youtube (Captain Shack is doing a freaking amazing playthrough of it right now, as does our Emperor Corey). The thing is, in my opinion, Stellaris's game mechanics are perfect for a total conversion into a Thrawn's Revenge-type mod. It would take quite a while, and it would be an incredible effort if succesful. It would be really hard to do, and I understand that. Once again, I'm not really seriously suggesting it, I'm just speculating on the subject. Of course, as Corey himself has said, there's Elratie's GCW Shippacks mod and the Galaxy Divided, which is a TC mod. However, it makes me think about the possibilities and what could happen if Corey had helmed a Thrawn's Revenge III (or IV, by that time) mod on Stellaris. Having all of the ICW and Ascendancy factions there and more (Ssi-Ruuvi and Yuuzhan Vong endgame invasions instead of the Prethoryn Swarm and the Unbidden, etc.). The various Legends-based lore quests and stuff. Just saying it makes me realize how much of a chore doing a project like that would be. But still, just to maybe start a conversation about it, and hear other people's opinions on it. Thank you to everyone who read up to this point, lol. And again, I'm very grateful to Corey and the guys, and to what they do, and it's already more than enough to satisfy my love for the EU lore and SW-related RTS games. The Thrawn's Revenge team is the best modding team in the SW fan community, imo, and are just incredible people. Come on, you just cannot not love them and what they do. So I'm hoping you don't get this post the wrong way  :)
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Revanchist on May 10, 2017, 08:13:35 PM
As absolutely fantastic as a TR-based Stellaris would be, it isn't high on the priority list ATM. However, neither was doing anything else with ICW after like every single release, so you never know.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: tlmiller on May 10, 2017, 08:29:42 PM
I've considered multiple times buying Stellaris, mostly just because it runs natively on Linux so I wouldn't have to move to my desktop to play games.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus on May 10, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
I've considered multiple times buying Stellaris, mostly just because it runs natively on Linux so I wouldn't have to move to my desktop to play games.

It's amazing. It's quite slow at the start, but once you develop your empire a little it gets interesting and then some. I personally prefer Stellaris to Sins even, although they are different, and Sins is better at PvP. I love that you can play a single campaign in Stellaris forever, literally for years.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Mr.Puerto on May 10, 2017, 08:42:54 PM
I've considered multiple times buying Stellaris, mostly just because it runs natively on Linux so I wouldn't have to move to my desktop to play games.

Its a decent game, and a good time killer. Though I do think its get overhyped a little too much.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: RevanTheFireMage on May 10, 2017, 08:52:42 PM
Stellaris is great but Corey has stated on a post I made that he isn't that much into Stellaris right now and he might just make a ship pack sub mod or two instead of a full blown ICW mod for the game. As much as I'd like that it's just that the mod team has FotR, ICW, and Ascendancy to work on right now and none are getting done anytime soon.

I'm not speaking for the mod team here! It's just what I've seen and read. But who know's Corey's opinion might change
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: tlmiller on May 10, 2017, 09:16:40 PM
It's amazing. It's quite slow at the start, but once you develop your empire a little it gets interesting and then some. I personally prefer Stellaris to Sins even, although they are different, and Sins is better at PvP. I love that you can play a single campaign in Stellaris forever, literally for years.

I would hope it's better than Sins.  Base sins is, IMO, complete utter garbage in most ways.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: RevanTheFireMage on May 10, 2017, 09:41:14 PM
Sins is for quick beautiful fleet combat and action, where as Stellaris is more story driven that fleet combat based
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus on May 10, 2017, 09:56:45 PM
I would hope it's better than Sins.  Base sins is, IMO, complete utter garbage in most ways.

Well I meant Ascendancy. I've never even played base Sins, but I was referring to the original engine, that I enjoy Stellaris's gameplay and mechanics more.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus on May 10, 2017, 10:02:28 PM
Stellaris is great but Corey has stated on a post I made that he isn't that much into Stellaris right now and he might just make a ship pack sub mod or two instead of a full blown ICW mod for the game. As much as I'd like that it's just that the mod team has FotR, ICW, and Ascendancy to work on right now and none are getting done anytime soon.

Yeah, I know, I know. I addressed this in my post, actually. The guys have their hands full as it is, which is why I'm just quietly asking people if it's even remotely possible, and of course I realize that if it ever comes it won't be soon. I would never put Corey's priorities into question though, I'm just a fan of his and the guys' work as all of us here.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: RevanTheFireMage on May 10, 2017, 10:51:05 PM
Yeah I know but I don't know if they would ever pick it up if Corey wasn't very interested in the game, and I want him to be interested because I could see a very story driven ICW in stellaris
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on May 10, 2017, 11:19:22 PM
have you considered asking corey to put together another team to do this? there has to be more modders in this group. put people together and just have Corey "supervise" as in give you broad instructions, and let you make. i would propose to lead this, but i'm hopeless right now, and am to leave in a month for 2 months
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: RevanTheFireMage on May 10, 2017, 11:27:51 PM
I mean yeah that could work but we would have to find the right people to be able to modify stellaris files and do modelling and I am in no way a modder, I have no idea how to do it and with my current computer I can't do it. But I bet we could get something worked out
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: GreyStar on May 10, 2017, 11:34:57 PM
Something bad will happen when Revan and Revan work together. Like genocide of a Sith Empire or cheating death or, an army of HKs.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on May 11, 2017, 12:17:41 PM
i like the Cheating death part. the others? ehh....
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: RevanTheFireMage on May 11, 2017, 08:47:41 PM
An army of HK's sounds fricken awesome! I imagine them walking into battle chanting there war cry. "MEATBAGS! MEATBAGS! MEATBAGS!" :D
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on May 11, 2017, 10:38:43 PM
now that would be soo funny to see in a EaW mod
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: RevanTheFireMage on May 11, 2017, 10:42:53 PM
I can see it now kid we are gonna be famous! the "HK meme army mod" is gonna be a major hit kid we are gonna be superstars!
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Corey on May 19, 2017, 07:04:26 AM
So, speaking just for me and not for anyone else on the team. This gets a bit more general than just Stellaris, though.

When I say I'm not very into the game, I mean something fairly specific- planning a significant project like that would require knowing a lot more about not just how to play, but, more importantly, what modding actually lets you do in order to actually plan and structure it in the first place.  It's not that I'd be unwilling to do that, I've edited some of the files and even exported a model or two, but in terms of a large scale project, right now it's just more than I can commit to.  As Revanchist pointed out, we've been pretty consistently saying every release since 1.0 would be the last release of ICW, except for 2.2 where we've said we have plans for at least one more.  The key thing about our currently projects, even FotR, is that if it were to become impossible to continue, they're fairly finished projects as far as what's there, we could stop after 1.1 for Ascendancy, 2.2 for ICW, or 1.0 for FotR and there's not these gaping holes, though the "Coming Soon" on the faction select screen for Ascendancy would likely have to be removed... Point being, we've learned to structure our releases a lot better, and work on more self-contained systems. With Ascendancy, we do one version with a new faction, then one version of other features, then repeat. If we had to stop, it wouldn't be obvious that we were in the middle of anything beyond some curiosities in some files that you have to actively seek out. For ICW, we decided to focus ICW largely on the Warlords, which may have had significant popularity among the forum community, but was also about polishing what was there without allowing a scope-creep to make it more unpolished. We have other stuff we plan to do, but it's basically a choice between doing x or y themed release, as opposed to tackling it all at once and trying to incrementally work on everything at once, which could potentially work if it were based on longer term stuff. FotR may never have been released at all yet, but it's being planned from the start around this same principle, and we also have the ICW base to work off of, which simplifies things a lot, even if it's not as much as some people seem to think.  As we explained in the announcement post, the first release covers the Clone Wars directly, and then we have plans to expand on that and introduce more, but again, in the event we can't continue, there's still something that can reasonably be called a finished product there. Ultimately, one of the things I've been trying to focus on with Thrawn's Revenge as a whole is shorter, more focused dev cycles for potential future releases.

This is where the problem with another big project comes in, even if we weren't doing three other projects as it is. We're simply not at that point with another game, obviously, since we don't have anything in the first place. We'd have to have at least one or two beta/workup dev cycles (even FotR will sort of have one), and I wouldn't be comfortable having to leave a project like that, which is a significant part of why 1.0 wasn't the end of ICW, another being us having more free time when we started university than we thought we would.

I'm not saying this because I want or intend to stop anytime soon, but it's impossible to know what's going to happen at this point. It's been almost 3 and a half years since the last major ICW release, and it's really not because we've spent the whole time working on it. My last two jobs pretty much took up all of my time, so I didn't have many opportunities to work on the mod, hence our increased focus on the release strategy outlined above. We love doing it, but it doesn't support us. Through a series of stuff I won't go into in the last year and a half culminating this January in me deciding to go stay with my family using the money I'd been saving to go back to school (I'm still paying for my apartment, but I've basically turned it into a free Air BnB for family and friends who wanna stay in that city) until at least October, I have basically that long to work on pretty much just the mods, which is why I felt comfortable even announcing FotR. Luckily, my youtube channel does well enough to supplement my savings so I can sorta make this work without entirely screwing myself in the long term, it's just not enough to live off of on its own. Once October hits, I'll likely have to head back to Ottawa and find a real job (I had to turn one down while down here with the agency I used to work for, and it's not an easy call to get), which would likely mean work on the mods winds down and we're unable to do more than a few smaller patches for the existing mods. If, on the other hand, the work with the channel along with some other freelance stuff I can do is at a point where it's sustainable, even just to the point where it's still below the equivalent of a 40 hour minimum wage job, I'll likely end my lease, give up my apartment, find a new place down here and do that full time. The benefit there is that, even leaving aside the synergy between making video content and working on mods (it gives us a great platform to advertise the mods especially as I make contact with other youtubers allowing us more room to attract new team members, gives everyone a look into what we do, and the channel gets a good source of content), compared to either of my last two jobs, I'd be saving 1.5-2 hours per day just on transit, let alone all the extra shifts I used to pull because I can't say 'no,' which alone is great for modding time.  That's my preferred option, obviously, considering I love doing this and would like to extend that as long as possible, and I'm doing everything I can to make it possible but it's likely unrealistic. It would, however, mean I'd be more than open to committing to another longer-term project.

Quote
have you considered asking corey to put together another team to do this? there has to be more modders in this group. put people together and just have Corey "supervise" as in give you broad instructions, and let you make. i would propose to lead this, but i'm hopeless right now, and am to leave in a month for 2 months

Honestly, that would be little more than a random Star Wars mod with the name "Thrawn's Revenge" plastered on it, which isn't what we'd want that to become. It takes a lot more than you'd think to assemble a team large enough to tackle what would need to go into this, and asking a bunch of people to listen to our direction when we're not really putting anything into it doesn't really do much for them, they'd be perfectly capable of implementing their own vision without me breathing down their neck while having basically no idea what I was talking about, which at best culminates 6 months later with an announcement post on why Thrawn's Revenge IV: The Calrissian Chronicles broke away from us and became Star Wars Tales: The Return of Moff Jerjerrod or something. Mod leaders who don't do anything are the worst. Some of us on TR used to also be involved with an EaW project called Ages of Star Wars: Jedi Civil War when EaW first came out. It was started by a guy who then refused to learn how to contribute in any meaningful way other than to tell us what to do, which was often way more than was reasonable. We all just stopped working, and some of the team revived the mod later with pretty much everyone but him.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on May 19, 2017, 01:06:12 PM
actually, when i said this, i was think strictly GCW/ICW time period. so factions being the Imperial remnant, New republic, various warlords(maybe), Hapes, Yevetha, Ssi-Ruuk, Chiss, EoTH, Kuat, Rendili, Bothawui, and the like. the galaxy would all be star wars planets/stars, and it would be star wars technology, units, lasers, sounds, missions, crisis, so on and so forth. my point was there was content we could do, and remake the game with pretty much just stuff from star wars ABY 4-25.

as for the other part, i was more think how there are two different "teams" in TR: the group who works on Ascendancy, the group who works on EaW, and a few(including you, corey), who work on both. i was think expanding that concept to adding in a number of people who could start working on stellaris to give even more respect to that period.


that said, i see your points on not knowing the game well enough to do a total conversion mod like i/we suggested, and your point that you try to do full releases everytime. all this was was an IDEA for a project some of the rest of us could help expand the under represented Imperial civil war period, and the Stellaris community
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: kucsidave on May 19, 2017, 01:58:14 PM
actually, when i said this, i was think strictly GCW/ICW time period. so factions being the Imperial remnant, New republic, various warlords(maybe), Hapes, Yevetha, Ssi-Ruuk, Chiss, EoTH, Kuat, Rendili, Bothawui, and the like. the galaxy would all be star wars planets/stars, and it would be star wars technology, units, lasers, sounds, missions, crisis, so on and so forth. my point was there was content we could do, and remake the game with pretty much just stuff from star wars ABY 4-25.

as for the other part, i was more think how there are two different "teams" in TR: the group who works on Ascendancy, the group who works on EaW, and a few(including you, corey), who work on both. i was think expanding that concept to adding in a number of people who could start working on stellaris to give even more respect to that period.


that said, i see your points on not knowing the game well enough to do a total conversion mod like i/we suggested, and your point that you try to do full releases everytime. all this was was an IDEA for a project some of the rest of us could help expand the under represented Imperial civil war period, and the Stellaris community
What you don't really know is that the "two teams" are basicly one. Yes, I don't work on ascendancy for example, but I was a tester before I joined the "ICW team" and have at least a basic understanding of modding sins, so I can get ideas going there too. And everyone else is basicly the same. We have at least some idea on what the other game has, and although it is not as detailed as the one we are doing, but we can contribute to the other team as well, and we are actually have one room for ourselves in discord and the two teams are not separated one bit. We are one big happy family if you wish
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Corey on May 19, 2017, 03:54:39 PM
as for the other part, i was more think how there are two different "teams" in TR: the group who works on Ascendancy, the group who works on EaW, and a few(including you, corey), who work on both. i was think expanding that concept to adding in a number of people who could start working on stellaris to give even more respect to that period.

As Dave says, that's not really how the team is structured. It sorta looks like this

Bane
OzWolf
Endcar
Slevered
Robin
Corey
Dr Knickers
Davis
Slornie
Pox
Kucsidave

Blue works on just Ascendancy, green's work is applicable to both, yellow on just ICW/FotR. The overlap is pretty big. Before Bane joined when STAIII:TFF released, I was doing all of the coding for Ascendancy, plus ~50% of the coding for ICW. To start a Stellaris mod, for people to want to join you have to be able to show that you've made progress, otherwise they feel like they're joining on to do everything themselves. There would be a long period where I'd be doing all of the coding and rigging on my own before anyone at all joined, and we can't be sure anyone would. Making plans based on future expectations of team members doesn't always go over well.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on May 19, 2017, 10:03:09 PM
i stand corrected then, and i understand. however, someday(eventually) i want to see Thrawn's revenge Era mods for Stellaris and Homeworld, since warlords is most likely just to remain rebellion era
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus on May 19, 2017, 10:24:25 PM
Corey, thank you for your long and detailed reply, now I think that I have a more or less complete understanding on how things are, and the only thing I want to do now is to wish you all the luck in the world, with every project you are doing at the moment, or are planning for the future, and also I cincerely hope that everything else in your life, and the lives of people dear to you works out for the best, you are a wonderful person and I am proud to be knowing you even to such extent, by talking to you occasionally here. I really wish that there are many and many years of happiness ahead in your life. You deserve it, and not because of modding, or anything else that you do, but because you have a heart of gold, and are truly someone to aspire to. And I mean it.

P.S.: I don't know you that well, but I'm certain that what I said about you is true, my intuition about people is usually correct, so I trust my gut feeling.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: renx215 on June 14, 2017, 09:59:38 PM
eh, Stellaris. I have downloaded Star wars mods off workshop. but they never seem to be able to keep up with patches.

I love Paradox Games in general, CK2, EU4, Ive played HOI4 and just bought stellaris and it is numbers heavy.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Darth Red on July 30, 2017, 06:04:19 PM
eh, Stellaris. I have downloaded Star wars mods off workshop. but they never seem to be able to keep up with patches.

I love Paradox Games in general, CK2, EU4, Ive played HOI4 and just bought stellaris and it is numbers heavy.

You should maybe try A Galaxy Divided, it works with the current 1.7 beta, so do the SW ship packs and ship weapons. Cheers.

One can but hope for a TR modding of Stellaris, however I believe that Corey and team have already a full plate with the existing work :)
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on July 30, 2017, 09:45:12 PM
that is certainly true. people like them to continue with their current projects more than start new ones
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Darth Red on September 26, 2017, 02:42:26 AM
Having said that, with both Stellaris SW mods stopped possibly for good (one since Dec-16 and AGD since last May) some may turn their expectant eyes to the team in search of saviours  ;D
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Hairybum74 on February 16, 2018, 11:01:12 PM
I would love to see another star wars mod for stellaris. and if the mod had enough work put into it as TR did, it would be the best mod out there.
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: btemple1230 on March 23, 2018, 02:02:41 PM
There is a team developing a new star wars mod for stellaris.  I think it's the same team that did the stellaris star trek mod. 
Title: Re: Stellaris and Thrawn's Revenge
Post by: Shermos on March 28, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
The team who made Star Trek Armada 3 tried to make an ST Stellaris mod but found the developers kept pushing patches which radically change the game too often for a smaller team like theirs to handle, even with Paradox's modder friendly policy. They decided to give up and went back to Sins to start work on another mod separate from STAIII. I remember one of them said on ModDB they might consider trying again when Stellaris stops getting major updates. This seems like it will be years away, but perhaps then it would be more practical to consider making a TR mod for it.