Thrawn's Revenge

Mod & Network News => News, Dev Diaries & Announcements => Topic started by: Corey on January 18, 2017, 01:35:28 PM

Title: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 18, 2017, 01:35:28 PM
We said with the demo announcement we'd do a full rundown of changes included in the demo when we get closer. Well, we're closer.

(https://i.imgur.com/sXDknMl.png)

To re-iterate on the announcement post for those who didn't see it, not only should this give something to hold everyone over until release, but if we've messed something up, we'll have ample time and feedback to adjust it as we go. This will be especially useful for balancing feedback; there have been plenty of balancing changes which should be pulling the mod in the direction we want, however the exact numbers are certainly still up in the air, and the demo will give us a good amount of feedback to adjust from the current new baseline. There are a ton of changes being made in 2.2, probably more than in any previous version (including 1.0, and the huge jump between 1.3 and 2.0), so the more feedback we can get in one GC as a testbed, the more easily we can make changes without them already being embedded in ~19 other scenarios.

Here's the basic overview of what to expect compared to 2.1, as well as a bit of a projection to the full 2.2. Keep in mind, everything (especially in the full 2.2) is subject to change. Content may be added or removed as time and priority allow, especially when it comes to additional units.



Demo Content
Play as the New Republic, Warlord Zsinj, or the Greater Maldrood in the revamped Hunt for Zsinj Galactic Conquest scenario.

Playable Factions:
New Republic: (Only new content listed)

Warlord Zsinj: (New in green)

Greater Maldrood: (New in green)

New Non-Playable Factions: (Emergent upon Zsinj death)
Corporate Sector Authority:

The full 2.2 will include various changes for other existing factions, the new playable Eriadu Authority, and a few other non-playables. More details will be discussed separately for these.

AI Changes:

Graphical Changes:

Gameplay Changes:

Miscellaneous
[li]Working on VO for as many units and heroes as we can[/li][/list]


This isn't exhaustive for the full 2.2, however should cover the main points of the demo. As for a release date, we should be releasing the demo in February.


Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: StarBornMichaelh165 on January 18, 2017, 02:05:52 PM
Finally I can't wait to play the Demo Thanks Corey.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: tlmiller on January 18, 2017, 02:22:38 PM
AI Changes:
  • Fleets should no longer take the longest possible route they can figure out around the galaxy.
  • AI defense fleets will not sit under space stations.

Those 2 changes alone would be absolutely awesome even if nothing else changed.  Sounding like a lot of great updates for 2.2
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Helix345 on January 18, 2017, 05:07:35 PM
  • Having small carriers in orbit (ie Ton-Falk, Quasar) allows use of a fighter on ground. If destroyed, the carrier dies as well.

So are these fighters brought in as reinforcements? How powerful are they? This sounds really cool.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 18, 2017, 05:09:56 PM
They're brought in the same way you handle any other units, but they're built on the space tab and their transport is a unit in its own right. It's like a Han/Chewie situation. They're very powerful, but you only get one, and air units are a lot more vulnerable generally.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 18, 2017, 07:29:59 PM
this is amazing!!!! too bad the carrier dies with the fighters, but that is probably for balancing reasons. this will be like playing a whole new game
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 18, 2017, 07:30:42 PM
question: will Mon Calamari get redone? i'm always aggravated that it has only 3 build slots
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Helix345 on January 18, 2017, 07:36:21 PM
They're brought in the same way you handle any other units, but they're built on the space tab and their transport is a unit in its own right. It's like a Han/Chewie situation. They're very powerful, but you only get one, and air units are a lot more vulnerable generally.

So by having a carrier, you get a fighter as reinforcements?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 18, 2017, 07:41:45 PM
seems like it. you do know this is in alliance mod, right?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Beznerds on January 18, 2017, 07:56:25 PM
So I'm still confused about the fighter reinforcements, are they handled like LAAT Gunships? How do you recruit them and bring them into battle? How do they affect pop cap?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 18, 2017, 08:06:56 PM
You buy a Quasar. The Quasar is a space unit, the same as it always has been. If you're in a ground battle with the Quasar in orbit, you can bring down an X-Wing in the exact same way you can bring down any other unit. It's literally the exact same thing as Luke being Luke on the ground and flying an X-Wing in space, only it's an X-Wing on the ground and a carrier in space.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Bucman55 on January 18, 2017, 11:01:43 PM
Oh wow, B-1s for the CSA. I would have expected to see their police dudes or whatever they're called. Also I'm a little surprised Zsinj is getting the Providence.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Labria on January 19, 2017, 05:45:30 AM
So many good changes.  8=)
What happen to Invincible? Do you still plan add this ship to mod?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 19, 2017, 12:47:19 PM
Did you purposely leave at the IR event out of the run down or has that been taken out?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Slornie on January 19, 2017, 12:58:34 PM
Did you purposely leave at the IR event out of the run down or has that been taken out?
The IR is not a new faction but more importantly for the purposes of this GC/Demo is not playable and does not benefit materially from any new content.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 19, 2017, 02:13:55 PM
so, nothing new for us to face from them in HTZ?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Pali on January 19, 2017, 05:24:02 PM
The IR is essentially part of the NR for the HTZ campaign to reflect the Solo-Rogriss alliance.  It isn't in that campaign as its own faction at all.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Bucman55 on January 19, 2017, 10:13:36 PM
The IR is essentially part of the NR for the HTZ campaign to reflect the Solo-Rogriss alliance.  It isn't in that campaign as its own faction at all.
Not at the start no, but they split off when Zsinj is killed. Still, as you said, they are unplayable in that GC.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 20, 2017, 11:02:44 AM
exactly. which is why i asked. because we will still fight them
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: c7x8z4 on January 20, 2017, 06:04:12 PM
What's the status of diplomacy for the demo? And 2.2?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 20, 2017, 06:07:57 PM
It's not gonna be in the demo, and probably cut from 2.2 as well. It doesn't feel like it's adding what we actually wanted out of it to the game yet.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: GreyStar on January 20, 2017, 06:16:21 PM
That's unfortunate, I would appreciated the extra tactical depth.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 20, 2017, 06:19:01 PM
darn. with so many enemies, i would want a diplomacy system to take planets while staying behind the great golan wall
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Helix345 on January 20, 2017, 06:46:30 PM
I think there is a submod you can download
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 20, 2017, 07:15:18 PM
We released a test build for base FoC, it's not a submod you can download for ICW.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: turtle225 on January 20, 2017, 08:06:42 PM

AI Changes:
  • AI will properly stack fleets instead of sending waves of smaller fleets. Also higher fleet and ground force requirements for attacks to occur.


Many awesome things to look forward to, but this one might be what actually interests me the most. Nothing kills my motivation to play than the feeling of invulnerability because the ai is too stupid to coordinate attacks properly.

Something else you might want to consider looking at is the AI's tendency to retreat wounded ships in an attempt to save them. While it makes sense to try and save dying ships, sometimes it ends up in a scenario where the ai is running loops with a fleet of half dead ships that aren't very threatening and basically trickling in after the initial wave is beaten back. As an example, in the current campaign with Han and Rogriss where the Hapans are hostile, I had them attack me at your capital planet with a ridiculous stack of battle dragons and the other ship (something like 200 pop iirc, but it's been awhile) and I defeated them with just Han, Rogriss, the golans, an ion cannon, a level 3 station, and whatever other starting units you get there. I don't think this would have been possible if they just brute forced into me but they kept turning around. Maybe the actual problem is infinite unit spawns out of space stations. Idk, something to think about, but maybe not worth bothering with.

Anyway, thanks for the new info and for the work you guys do. This update is sounding better and better with each post.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 20, 2017, 11:36:35 PM
What's the status of diplomacy for the demo? And 2.2?
It's not going to be in the demo or 2.2 but hopefully the next version.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: yutpaeksi on January 21, 2017, 05:45:23 AM
Hey TR Team!

It's been a long time, glad to see the mod is still going strong. Looking forward to the fun-sounding new elements of 2.2.

You guys always excel, and the community certainly appreciates it.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: c7x8z4 on January 22, 2017, 07:22:33 PM
I remember in a post a while back that the team was changing how Z-layers work for capital ships jumping in. Will that be in the beta? 2.2?
(From what I remember, each new ship jumps in on different layers, so you could potentially have ISDII's jumping in on top of each other...?)

Could you elaborate on these 3 new battle events and how they will work?
[At least 3 other battle events and styles planned for the full release.]

Also, could you elaborate on how this system/mechanic would work? Will the cost for all units be the same? What happens if your treasury runs to 0 credits? ...etc
[Testing a unit upkeep cost mechanic, provided it doesn't reduce AI desire to build ships (has to work just as well in large scenarios like Art of War, as well as smaller starts like FTGU, so may not last).]

Lastly, is there a possibility of establishing a rally point system in game (in galactic map view)? E.g. I am assembling a fleet over Kuat, so all ships produced at Coruscant automatically moves to Kuat immediately after production?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 22, 2017, 10:18:31 PM
Quote
I remember in a post a while back that the team was changing how Z-layers work for capital ships jumping in. Will that be in the beta? 2.2?
(From what I remember, each new ship jumps in on different layers, so you could potentially have ISDII's jumping in on top of each other...?)

That will be in the demo, for most ships. You wouldn't really have ISDs jumping in directly on top of each other; the ship is still assigned a Z-layer, but as each instance of that ship jumps in, it's assigned one of three variations on that.

Quote
Could you elaborate on these 3 new battle events and how they will work?
[At least 3 other battle events and styles planned for the full release.]

We don't like to say too much about things until they're finished. Basically, we're trying to do some different stuff to shake up how battles sometimes play.

Quote
Also, could you elaborate on how this system/mechanic would work? Will the cost for all units be the same? What happens if your treasury runs to 0 credits? ...etc

As it stands, you buy a ship, then every week it costs a certain amount of credits to maintain. Each ship is different. I don't think the game lets you run to negative credits; you just can't buy new things. Whether or not this stays in the game depends on a few factors. Primarily, we need to make sure it doesn't hurt the AI. Secondly, we need to make sure it does what we want it to (make credits an actual factor) without doing something we don't (cripple earlygame, low-planet GCs)

Quote
Lastly, is there a possibility of establishing a rally point system in game (in galactic map view)? E.g. I am assembling a fleet over Kuat, so all ships produced at Coruscant automatically moves to Kuat immediately after production?

Maybe it could be scripted, I'm not sure. It would probably get pretty laggy though.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: c7x8z4 on January 22, 2017, 11:08:39 PM
Awesome; I look forward to the demo.

I also wanted to ask about improving orbital bombardments and bombing runs.

For orbital bombardments, as it currently is, I feel that it is too weak.
Currently, the orbital bombardments don't seem to do too much damage, and worse, the shots are quite spread out and "diluted" instead of concentrated in one spot.
Compare the following 2 videos:
@13:35 mark; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRl3ky2fNrE
@18:25 mark; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWAddwlw_s
In the first video, there are only a few shots and those shots are somewhat randomly all over the place (it does not even destroy the building), whereas in the second video, there is a constant stream of shots concentrated in one spot. The bombardment in the 2nd video is also much more visually impressive, with shock waves and smoke, whereas in the first video, the shots seem to just disappear into the ground...

Secondly, is there any way to increase the damage and area of effect for a bombing run?
@19:22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRl3ky2fNrE
In this video, the enemy bunkers survive the bombing run...Any way to increase the damage and strike area?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 22, 2017, 11:23:26 PM
That was done intentionally. You'll notice it actually still does destroy that building at 13:37, the light vehicle factory. It leaves the heavy vehicle factory heavily damaged. The damage it does is basically the same, it's just, as you've said, spread around. There's really nothing that distinguishes between bombing runs and OBs in the base game; you pick the area, and the visuals are different, but it's basically "I want that one target destroyed." The way we currently have it, you either pick the bombing run for targeted destruction, or the Orbital Bombardment for a wider range potential area and lots of stuff is going to die, but you're not guaranteed to hit the single specific building or unit you may have wanted (if you want that, you use a bombing run). It's also way too easily to just get a scout, typically an air unit, and only ever use bombing runs and OBs with no need to actually use any ground units.

With those bunkers not being destroyed, that's more to do with bunkers being particularly strong and those ones being particularly high (not all the bombs which would hit them on a lower, flatter surface actually hit them there) as opposed to bombers being weaker than they've been before or in other places.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 23, 2017, 09:33:09 AM
ah, thanks. Executors must be hard to support
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Aeradom on January 24, 2017, 06:38:40 PM
Lots of great stuff in it, particularly be nice to not have the enemy fleet running to the fortresses like it's raining outside and they want to be under a roof... before it collapses? (It's a flawed metaphor but let me have it). The one thing that has me nervous is that thing about upkeep. I've never played a game where I found the upkeep really added to my enjoyment and didn't just make things tedious. I understand why it's in there, but at some point, you have to sacrifice realism for fun. Not really sure what you mean that credits aren't important; While it's true in the later parts of the game it doesn't really matter that much, at that point I want to be battling massive fleets so I'm fine with that.

I'll try out the beta and give my thoughts further once I played it.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 24, 2017, 10:13:22 PM
The reasons behind putting in upkeep have nothing to do with realism actually. It's an extra cost meant to address the fact that after the first little bit of a campaign, you never really have to worry much about production costs, especially towards the end, and the other factions can't put up anything near a fight. You're not fighting massive fleet against massive fleet, you're fighting tiny dregs with your own massive fleet, and this is part of an attempt to fix (one end of) this issue. We're not aiming to reduce the amount of ships you have, we're aiming to make it so if you lose those ships, that actually means something and you can't immediately rebuild. I don't think it would get tedious, considering you're not really required to take any extra action.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 25, 2017, 06:51:28 PM
humm... i don't know... you were getting really stomped by Zsinj until EP 35 in the Maldrood, so...
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: StarBornMichaelh165 on January 25, 2017, 11:32:00 PM
humm... i don't know... you were getting really stomped by Zsinj until EP 35 in the Maldrood, so...
  Yes Corey did until Episode 35 .
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on January 26, 2017, 02:14:58 AM
humm... i don't know... you were getting really stomped by Zsinj until EP 35 in the Maldrood, so...

Even then, credits were rarely the issue, and the AI behaviour is very different in that from how it is now. The second you get ahead, it's not a challenge. This ideally contributes to delaying that moment and keeping more of the GC a challenge, and also, in certain GCs if we can do everything we plan, will be part of planning for certain "endgame" events if we're able to do them.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: StarBornMichaelh165 on January 26, 2017, 03:22:55 AM
Even then, credits were rarely the issue, and the AI behaviour is very different in that from how it is now. The second you get ahead, it's not a challenge. This ideally contributes to delaying that moment and keeping more of the GC a challenge, and also, in certain GCs if we can do everything we plan, will be part of planning for certain "endgame" events if we're able to do them.
OH What kind of Endgame Events.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Revanchist on January 26, 2017, 02:47:50 PM
Even then, credits were rarely the issue, and the AI behaviour is very different in that from how it is now. The second you get ahead, it's not a challenge. This ideally contributes to delaying that moment and keeping more of the GC a challenge, and also, in certain GCs if we can do everything we plan, will be part of planning for certain "endgame" events if we're able to do them.

I'm wondering if this will include the "endgame event" that was originally planned for the end of Final Imperial Push. If so that would be quite fantastic.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 26, 2017, 03:10:40 PM
was the Caamas crisis supposed to be when the remnant was close to dying in 2.1 final imperial push?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 26, 2017, 03:11:50 PM
I am quite looking forward to this and am of course sending copious amounts of VO whenever I can
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 26, 2017, 03:15:40 PM
this stuff is all really cool i agree
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: joebob1337 on February 10, 2017, 10:52:07 AM
EoTH ships getting a nerf? They were fine, that is going to make them much harder to play, especially without an SSD or ship of equal size.

Speaking of SSDs, what "supership" will the hand get, if at all, all the other factions have some sort of SSD or ship of equal strength
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on February 10, 2017, 11:24:54 AM
none. the hand has no superships. the closest will be one of the three new capital ships the hand are getting
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on February 10, 2017, 12:28:51 PM
EoTH ships getting a nerf? They were fine, that is going to make them much harder to play, especially without an SSD or ship of equal size.

EotH ships aren't getting an overall nerf. Their ground units are. Their ground units are ridiculous in 2.1 and previous versions, now they're more in line with the other factions. For space, we didn't mention it explicitly in this post, but with the new EotH ships being added, we're able to make them more specialized. You could see this as a nerf technically, in that they're going to have fewer jack-of-all-trades ships like they have now, but their overall power will be similar.


Speaking of SSDs, what "supership" will the hand get, if at all, all the other factions have some sort of SSD or ship of equal strength

SSDs go against their faction identity. Balance doesn't really mean everyone has access to the same thing.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Revanchist on February 10, 2017, 12:36:32 PM
Well I had a post written to respond to this, but was ninja'd by Corey, so yeah exactly what he said.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on February 10, 2017, 02:20:05 PM
exactly
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: jdf31596 on February 13, 2017, 10:09:05 PM
when does this mod come out?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Revanchist on February 13, 2017, 11:41:38 PM
when does this mod come out?

Second Tuesday of next week.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on February 14, 2017, 10:36:38 AM
harhar very funny. how many people are scratching their heads to figure out the date from that?
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Mr.Puerto on February 14, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
harhar very funny. how many people are scratching their heads to figure out the date from that?
Its obviously February 30th! Come on dude! LOL
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: kucsidave on February 19, 2017, 04:21:51 AM
Its obviously February 30th! Come on dude! LOL
Someone finally gets it ;)
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Mr.Puerto on February 19, 2017, 11:36:50 AM
Someone finally gets it ;)
I got your back!
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Revanchist on February 19, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
I got your back!

So say we all.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: kevmicgls on May 05, 2017, 01:22:29 AM
where do I go to download
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on May 05, 2017, 10:48:52 AM
Look on the Imperial Civil war page on Moddb, you should find it in the download section
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: chuck on July 10, 2017, 09:52:11 PM
In the universe...certain ships have been built on certain plants...Kuat for example is a major imperial ship construction facility, but yet when it is taken over by another faction there is no option to build imperial SDs of any type.  One would think that given the time and effort that it takes to construct a ship that there might be several ships in various stages of construction that would be salvageable when a new faction took over.  perhaps giving the other factions the option to build several Imperial ships  to include an SSD might be interesting.  Old CIS planets like Genosis can say produce CIS ships/droids. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Corey on July 10, 2017, 10:33:38 PM
For one thing, that kills faction diversity entirely if unit rosters only depend on the planets you control. From a lore pr, the New Republic took over Kuat very early in the post-Endor period, but they never once built any of the Imperial ships designed and built there, instead they produced their own designs, from their own specifications (like the Nebula and Endurance Star Destroyers). During the Galactic Civil War, the Empire also controlled Mon Calamari, but they never produced the Mon Calamari ships used by the Rebels or NR for the Empire. We know all of these planets were controlled by different groups at different points during this period, but what you're suggesting never became commonplace, so it's not really something we'd do.
Title: Re: Full Demo Rundown
Post by: Snafu3 on July 11, 2017, 04:34:41 PM
Yea I agree with that. The last thing I want to see in a GC is the NR spamming ISD's, or the IR spamming MC80's. that would completely kill the immersion for me..