Thrawn's Revenge

Mod & Network News => News & Updates => Topic started by: Corey on January 17, 2017, 01:35:24 PM

Title: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on January 17, 2017, 01:35:24 PM
For those of you who are unaware, we're dividing the Remnant tech tree into three possible regimes; Thrawn & Pellaeon, Palpatine, and currently Daala. Each will have their own separate gameplay hooks, bonuses and negative attributes. People have repeatedly asked "well why not Warlord X," however the key point here isn't just throwing in another name. It's developing distinct trees between all factions and branches, and in this case, putting a fourth spin on the Imperial doctrine, as it can be represented in the Sins engine (between the Pentastar Alignment, Palpatine, Thrawn & Pellaeon, and the final slot here). The final style we're looking for can be pretty equally represented by two people; Daala and Zsinj. This is essentially a tech focused one, where the big bonus is non-permanent hero death and two SSDs at once. Daala brings the first through the Maw Installation, Zsinj brings it through his own close association with different scientific projects. Each has one or two additional techs they can bring to the table (Daala with reunification stuff like Crimson Command and some of the Maw's weapons, Zsinj with some of his own weapons research and Night Cloaks), but not enough to justify making both. So, we're asking for your input; which would you rather see?
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: tlmiller on January 17, 2017, 01:51:23 PM
I think Zsinj would bring more to the table, however, it's close.  I voted for Zsinj although I'd hate to lose the option of having the maw installation tech...

Overall, I think if you were to do Tie Raptors as an option with Zsinj, this would sway me, since they're beastly little fighters in ICW and I'd take them over Tie/Ln or Tie/In's as the primary fighter.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 17, 2017, 02:05:40 PM
Daala for the win, due to the Maw Installation and Crimson Command, I'll pick her over Zsinj.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 17, 2017, 02:15:01 PM
Zsinj. there is no warlord faction, so prefer Zsinj to Daala.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: lordoflinks on January 17, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
Daala.
Zsinj never led the Empire in its entirety, he was only one of many warlords. Daala did however. 
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: StarBornMichaelh165 on January 17, 2017, 04:27:28 PM
Cool Zsinj vs Daala yeah.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Revanchist on January 17, 2017, 05:18:10 PM
That's a tough call. My vote is for Daala because Red VSDs, and because she was a leader of the Remnant while Zsinj was not. I could lean either way though. Though I think I prefer Warlords to be represented via ingame event.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 17, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Pentastar is a warlord faction by the way if that influences your vote
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Revanchist on January 17, 2017, 06:25:48 PM
Pentastar is a warlord faction by the way if that influences your vote

Yeah but not the same type of Warlord. They were a stable government that never attempted to say they were the Empire. Slightly different in my opinion.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Illidan Stormrage on January 17, 2017, 06:51:01 PM
Before you vote anyone interested hear me out/
I will tell you advantages, disadvantages and possible ideas for Zsinj tech.

Dala:
Pros: Maw installation CVSD, Knight hammer, Crystal Phase Shifters. Pellaon
Cons: More about reunification and being the one true empire therefore making alliances more of a hassle. mostly boosts war effort and not economy (Unless Corey Debunks what I say)
Zsinj:
Pros: Tie Raptors, Modified CR90s, Apwar Trigit, Night Cloaks, Morttis project, more economic focus due to how warlord Zsinj operated during the X-wing books. Second Death(This could act as a sort of one time revival of Warlord Zsinj or a unit that has no weapons but attracts enemies attention) Better Alliances(Zsinj during the early times of the post-Endor was largely ignored by the true Empire and some warlords like screed and Lion Banjeer allied with him) Pirates could play a role since Zsinj actively recruited pirates. Cooperate sector could give him discounts on ships that are considered "Imperial Surplus" Since that made up most of the cooperate sectors fleet and other abilities.
Cons: No Maw Installation, Crystal Phase Shifters, or CVSD. And Maybe others I cant really think of.

I choose Warlord Zsinj mostly because he is honestly way more important and way more successful then Dala ever was and he brings more stuff to the table since some of his 2.2 ships could be add.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Revanchist on January 17, 2017, 07:37:22 PM
A couple of things to mention

Pros: Maw installation CVSD, Knight hammer, Crystal Phase Shifters. Pellaeon

Let's be honest, CC VSD is a very important reason because it's RED. Also, considering one of the Leader Doctrines will be a Pellaeon/Thrawn combo I highly doubt Pellaeon will be an available hero for Daala.

Quote
Zsinj:
Pros: Tie Raptors, Modified CR90s, Apwar Trigit, Night Cloaks, Morttis project, more economic focus due to how warlord Zsinj operated during the X-wing books.

Raptors would be cool.

Quote
Second Death(This could act as a sort of one time revival of Warlord Zsinj or a unit that has no weapons but attracts enemies attention)

I believe Corey's quote here:
The big bonus is non-permanent hero death and two SSDs at once.
Makes this idea pretty well irrelevant.

Quote
I choose Warlord Zsinj mostly because he is honestly way more important and way more successful then Daala ever was and he brings more stuff to the table since some of his 2.2 ships could be add.

The problem with adding his 2.2 ships to the IR is that they are already part of the PA's roster. There's quite a bit of overlap as it is between the two factions and I find it unlikely that the mod team would want to add more.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Fenrir808 on January 17, 2017, 07:51:41 PM
I vote Daala, she is simply more fleshed out in the books.   A more wholesome character, with a more wholesome fleet.

Plus Pellaeon liked her.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: capshades on January 17, 2017, 11:36:58 PM
Daala.  Zsinj was not a true Imperial, and did not represent any change in Imperial doctrine or procedures, nor conquered or fought in the name of the Empire.  Daala had an actual major impact on the Remnant in both policy and leadership, exterminating the bickering warlords and leading a vindictive and destructive (if futile) campaign against the rebels.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Meyer on January 18, 2017, 12:52:45 AM
My vote goes to Daala, since she united the deep core warlords and pawed the way for the empire to reunite. Zsinj was just another warlord, one who ultimately failed while the empire endured.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DoktorVogel on January 18, 2017, 10:58:52 AM
Guess we just really love that redheaded beast of a woman...
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: StarBornMichaelh165 on January 18, 2017, 11:48:25 AM
I guess Everyone love her too....but I can't see why?
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: tlmiller on January 18, 2017, 02:17:32 PM
Not everyone, 8 of us (currently) don't want her.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Papa Palps on January 18, 2017, 06:43:35 PM
I vote for my Hand.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 18, 2017, 07:35:18 PM
i don't care about red VSDs!!!( i can't believe i just said that, red is my favorite color). I want Zsinj!! because raptors are amazing.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Helix345 on January 18, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
I vote Dalla, because revan said he wanted Zinji.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 18, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
I vote for my Hand.
This made me laugh ;D
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 18, 2017, 09:14:35 PM
I vote Dalla, because revan said he wanted Zinji.
Talk about spite lol.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on January 18, 2017, 09:29:10 PM
Gotta say, this is not how we thought this would go.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 18, 2017, 10:23:43 PM
I vote Dalla, because revan said he wanted Zinji.

Quote
Talk about spite lol.

spite fest 101, eh, Helix? watch your back, or i'll find where you live. JK

though, i'm saying this right now, this is NOT a palce to torture people. it is a place to discuss mods. keep it clean and courteous PLEASE
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: lordoflinks on January 18, 2017, 10:57:56 PM
Gotta say, this is not how we thought this would go.
I guess it was just a vocal minority that wanted Zsinj.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Revanchist on January 19, 2017, 12:14:17 AM
Gotta say, this is not how we thought this would go.

You'll find we're full of surprises.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 19, 2017, 02:08:52 AM
Gotta say, this is not how we thought this would go.
When do you think you're going to close voting. Because it'll be awkward if Zsinj takes over when Daala is already half way through development
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on January 19, 2017, 02:22:27 AM
We're happy to leave it open until we get to the point where we have to make a decision to code that bit in. If it suddenly swaps, that's not a huge deal for us; we're looking for opinions, but this isn't binding or anything. If we decide it's absolutely best, we could even decide to go with Isard or something.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: lordoflinks on January 19, 2017, 02:27:27 AM
Not Isard! Not Isard!

In all seriousness unless we get a massive outpouring of support for Zsinj, I doubt he will come out on top.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Samurai_Apocalypse on January 19, 2017, 02:42:42 PM
Zsinj and the Iron Fist are way cool - Really enjoy him in Interregnum, BUT as much as I dislike Daala's character she was there from almost the beginning of the EU until the end.  Would I rather have the Iron Fist and Razor's Kiss smash the NR? Yes!  Daala just makes more sense  :(
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Helix345 on January 19, 2017, 06:48:33 PM
Talk about spite lol.

Just to clarify, I actually do want Dalla more, I just saw Revan's post and thought I would tease him a tad.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 19, 2017, 07:09:35 PM
that is fine. my statement still stands, and i HATE Daala. Zsinj is a nicer choice in my opinion. i want Iron Fist protected by Raptors, not Knight Hammer with red VSDs.(though it would be cool). unless a warlord faction comes out(extraordinarily unlikely) then i will stick with Zsinj in IR. also, the PA doesn't count, they are their own government.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Helix345 on January 19, 2017, 08:01:02 PM
I think that Daala had a more significant impact on the empire, and she gets the maw installation, which to me, makes more sense for research focus. Red VSD's would be more interesting and useful than tie raptors in my opinion as well.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Slornie on January 20, 2017, 12:19:40 PM
Maybe if Daala joins the Imperial Remnant line-up a similar deal could be done for Zsinj in future with the Pentastar Alignment faction - rename it Independent Imperial Conclaves and have Kaine and Zsinj tracks! :angel:
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on January 20, 2017, 12:21:43 PM
No Warlords or other groups in any way fit with the rest of the PA tech tree.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 20, 2017, 12:39:49 PM
that's what i thought, and you said there is not going to be another imperial faction, that's why i went zsinj
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Helix345 on January 21, 2017, 04:27:03 PM
I'm okay with not having warlords in ascendancy. They didn't really build empires, they stole chunks from the empire.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 23, 2017, 12:40:18 PM
i kinda wish there were, but more interesting factions are better for ascendancy, since ICW goes legends historicalish. but fighting all the different warlords would be fun
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on January 23, 2017, 01:53:48 PM
You'd be fighting the exact. Same. Faction. there are already different starting forces from Warlord groups, it just isn't coded as a separate faction because unlike EaW, that's unnecessary.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Mr.Puerto on January 24, 2017, 01:48:36 PM
You'd be fighting the exact. Same. Faction. there are already different starting forces from Warlord groups, it just isn't coded as a separate faction because unlike EaW, that's unnecessary.
Preach it Corey!
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 24, 2017, 01:54:43 PM
alright don't yell.

so their won't be Delvardus attacking you with the PA Preators?
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Revanchist on January 24, 2017, 03:13:26 PM
alright don't yell.

so their won't be Delvardus attacking you with the PA Preators?

Nope
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on January 24, 2017, 03:42:27 PM
alright don't yell.

Not yelling, and didn't meant to come across that way. Simply emphasizing.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 26, 2017, 03:17:03 PM
Well this is tough as Daala's option actually offers more diversity while Zsinj is a better character.
Daala grants the Night Hammer, Crimson Command VSDs and option for two titans.

Zsinj on the other hand would offer the TIE Raptor, some variants of IMP tech but not much for Ascendancy I feel. I can't believe I am saying it, but Daala.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on January 26, 2017, 03:18:11 PM
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRAITOR!!!!!!.

just kidding i'm  just still disappointed
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Lord Xizer on January 26, 2017, 07:01:03 PM
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRAITOR!!!!!!.

just kidding i'm  just still disappointed

Well I love the Night Hammer
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Helix345 on January 26, 2017, 07:34:06 PM
welcome to the dark side. We are legion, sitting quietly in the shadows awaiting for the light side bastards to realize that through years of careful planning, we have already won.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: kucsidave on February 19, 2017, 04:38:11 AM
Maybe it's too late, but I finally vited as well.
Sorry, but I just couldn't do the right thing and vote for Daala.
I know she would be the better choice, but I love Zsinj too much.
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: DarthRevansRevenge on February 19, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
can someone make a mod that adds the warlords tech to a third faction. a minimod, not the main ascendancy one
Title: Re: Community Poll: Daala vs Zsinj
Post by: Corey on February 19, 2017, 04:22:34 PM
What exactly is it that you're looking for from "the Warlords tech," though? That's sort of what we're getting at- there's only so much distinct stuff you can do within these groups beyond just having a name sit there.