Thrawn's Revenge

Ascendancy [SoaSE] => Ascendancy Discussion => Topic started by: kucsidave on May 20, 2016, 06:51:10 AM

Title: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 20, 2016, 06:51:10 AM
Since the Executor has a looooot of shield points, so it tajes it takes a lot of time to recharge it.
And to offer both a method to solve this and a nod to EaW abilities there could be an ability for it to redirect power to shields.
This would also solve the problem that in the last few levels there is nothing to spend your points to.
The ability would basically make the ship unable to move or shot but would recharge the shields with great speed until deactivated which you can't do within some time, like the dominator's interdict ability.
The inability to shot and move would serve as a counter to use it in battle making the unit unkillable, or if activated it would be rendered useless.
So my idea is to be:
Level 1: 50 shield/sec restored, available from level 1
Level 2: 75 shield/sec restored, available from level 3
Level 3: 100 shield/sec restored, available from level 6
Level 4: 150 shield/sec restored, available from level 9
This would also give the unit some variety about which ability you could chose, making the unit less linear in terms of progression route.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Corey on May 20, 2016, 06:56:11 AM
To be honest, I'd prefer this for the Viscount over the Executor.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 20, 2016, 06:58:14 AM
Hey, Viscount is suffering from the same issue, so it would fit there well too.
If you want to give it to Viscount, do it. I am just happy if it can solve a problem
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 20, 2016, 07:06:30 AM
then an another idea for fleet tender units is a targeted ability called energy transfer:
It takes away 50% firepower, 15% speed and drains their shields with 5 shield/second, but would give
25 shield/second regeneration rate for the targeted ship. basicly they would transfer energy from their ship to the targeted one.
Or something along these lines
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Revanchist on May 20, 2016, 11:46:41 PM
I think something more Executor-themed would be something like "Intensify Forward Battieries" that would increase its defense against projectiles and fighters or some such (like Piett ordered—albeit too late—in RotJ)
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: derp on May 21, 2016, 01:03:53 AM
I think something more Executor-themed would be something like "Intensify Forward Battieries" that would increase its defense against projectiles and fighters or some such (like Piett ordered—albeit too late—in RotJ)
I second this, its fluffy and from the movie.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 21, 2016, 02:12:22 AM
that is great. it could give the executors the ability to target fighters too and increase it's firepower all on it's own, but for cost of shields or movement speed. In the movie it did not matter since the shields were down either way.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Revanchist on May 21, 2016, 02:27:58 AM
that is great. it could give the executors the ability to target fighters too and increase it's firepower all on it's own, but for cost of shields or movement speed. In the movie it did not matter since the shields were down either way.

Or only activate once the shields are down.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Pali on May 21, 2016, 02:59:34 AM
Or only activate once the shields are down.

...that could actually be a really interesting higher level ability for an Executor.  An autocast upon shields dropping ability with a heavy cool-down that, say, gives the ship 10 seconds of invulnerability and a big damage boost?
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 21, 2016, 04:45:15 AM
yeah. one of the things I loved most in sins were that the titans could be customized. So even if there were 2 advent loyalist players their titans could be entirely different. I think this could be implemented into Ascendancy too to customize titans, but at least Executors. Since the IR here also represents the warlords, it would make sense that every executor could be different after all look at Night Hammer, the Reaper and the Iron Fist. They were all very different. Night hammer was the most modern with upgraded weaponry and black stealth armor. The reaper was an the center of an empire(Pentastar Alignment), the current boost allegiance would fit that category well. The Brawl(Iron Fist) was more of a really military asset...
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Revanchist on May 22, 2016, 12:49:03 AM
yeah. one of the things I loved most in sins were that the titans could be customized. So even if there were 2 advent loyalist players their titans could be entirely different. I think this could be implemented into Ascendancy too to customize titans, but at least Executors. Since the IR here also represents the warlords, it would make sense that every executor could be different after all look at Night Hammer, the Reaper and the Iron Fist. They were all very different. Night hammer was the most modern with upgraded weaponry and black stealth armor. The reaper was an the center of an empire(Pentastar Alignment), the current boost allegiance would fit that category well. The Brawl(Iron Fist) was more of a really military asset...

Hmm. That just gave me a cool idea (I have no idea how Sins works so this might be unfeasable) for different "paths" instead of standard upgrades. For example:

Knight Hammer track would decrease the upkeep cost and fleet supply each level, with the last level making it black and giving it extra fighter supply (as the Knight Hammer required fewer crew and actually carried closer to the number of fighters an Executor actually could carry if I recall)

Iron Fist track would increase hyperspace and sublight speed, with the last level giving it a one-time use "Save me" button activateable at low HP that would make it appear to be destroyed while actually jumping to the nearest capital shipyard (as the Iron Fist was used in hit-and-fades and that trick was used by Zsinj).

Reaper track would boost allegiance in your space and decrease enemy allegiance in theirs, with the last level also giving it an ability to generate a large amount of diplomatic points in other Imperial or Pentastar territory (as the Reaper was, in Imperial hands, used as a tool to attempt to reestablish faith in the Empire and bring wayward Imps "back into the fold.")

Lusankya track would provide a bonus against fighters and projectiles, with the last level giving it an ability to "activate sleeper agents" on a target ship, causing havoc in some way (as some of the heavy weaponry was replaced with more point defense systems and it was Isard's prison/reindoctrination center)

You can purchase any combination of these, but you could only get the highest tier if you invested all your points into that track.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 22, 2016, 07:02:45 AM
I like the idea. and I think it could be somewhat plausible since there is one occasion/faction for a crossroad in the tech tree.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Pali on May 22, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
Eh... I'm personally not too keen on trying to use abilities to turn an SSD into any specific SSD from the lore.  Let's be honest here, none of those ships other than Night Hammer was truly described as acting all that differently from any of the other Executor-class SSDs, and even the Night Hammer's one showing didn't really have it acting any differently than a normal SSD would in its position.  I'll grant that Daala's an idiot an didn't use it well, but the truth is that it never got any real chance to distinguish itself past Cronus's dramatic reveal of it.

I'd rather have abilities that are considered to be ones general to the Executor class of vessel than ones that are supposed to be tied to a specific warlord.  If we're talking hero units, that is something different.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on May 22, 2016, 10:17:41 AM
WEll, that is true. But the executors should have more abilities to becustomizeable. In fact, all "titans" should. It would give them some dimension other than them being them.
My main problem is that their progression trough the levels is too linear. there is nothing that could surprise you in level 2,4,6 and above 8.
Even level 1 is the only when you know nothing about a titan. in level 3 you know it has at least level 1 in every ability, in level 5 at least level 2 in every and in level 7 at least level 3.
If you know which titan has wich abilities then you can roughly guess what you can count with.
Now if there is 1 extra ability so being 5, you already have a much rougher estimation...
level 1 becomes much more of a wild card. instead of 12, you get 20 variations.
level 2: instead of 1, you get 120 possibilities
level 3: instead of 12(since the level 1-1-1-1 is a fix.), you get more than 150000 variations... And it only increases from there...
Not to mention that normally there is nothing you could spend points above level 8. Now you get. and only level 10 becomes a fix.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: derp on May 22, 2016, 06:59:27 PM
Eh... I'm personally not too keen on trying to use abilities to turn an SSD into any specific SSD from the lore.  Let's be honest here, none of those ships other than Night Hammer was truly described as acting all that differently from any of the other Executor-class SSDs, and even the Night Hammer's one showing didn't really have it acting any differently than a normal SSD would in its position.  I'll grant that Daala's an idiot an didn't use it well, but the truth is that it never got any real chance to distinguish itself past Cronus's dramatic reveal of it.

I'd rather have abilities that are considered to be ones general to the Executor class of vessel than ones that are supposed to be tied to a specific warlord.  If we're talking hero units, that is something different.
What about the super secret stealth armor that's black.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Pali on May 22, 2016, 10:59:38 PM
What about the super secret stealth armor that's black.

Like I said, it got a dramatic reveal - and did nothing for the rest of the book that any other generic Executor couldn't do.

If all you want is to have a black SSD, play a round of Interregnum or two.  In that mod, having multiple SSD options fits in nicely to the Warlord faction because you are building a specific ship tied to the Warlord sub-faction you choose to go with - each of these ships is, in many respects, a warlord-specific hero unit as a Titan.  Ascendancy's IR faction is not like this; you've got a named doctrine or so to research, but these aren't exclusive and don't represent that specific leader taking power over the faction.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Pentastar Enforcer on May 22, 2016, 11:56:51 PM
Since us Sins folks can only pull one SSD into battle, I like this a ton, adds heroes to the game without being too constrictive.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: kucsidave on June 04, 2016, 05:18:35 AM
I have a new idea but this time for all "Titan" class vessel(though mainly had the executor in mind when thinking about it)
The ideas is that particepating in many battles the crew would learn more about the vessel and it's weaknesses therefore strenghtening them and learn how to simplify things like fighter takeoff procedures to be more effective at fielding fighters and such things
War Machine
Requirest level 4/6/8/10 Titan
For Executors, since the IR is still about strenght than anything else:
Extra Armor 1.5/2.0/3.0/3.0
Strike craft build speed increase: 5%/5%/15%/25%
Rate of fire increase: 2%/5%/5%/15%
Range increase: 2%/5%/7%/10%
This would be like something in the lines of an ultimate, but since it is ascendancy not sins it would have it's drawback too. Since Corey said somewhere that they are working on a method that ships would take up resources instead of the ship supply I think that a ship like that would need more maintenance to keep up to speed, so
upkeep increase: 2%/5%/7%/10%

For Bellators, since the PA is fighter focused it could be
Extra Armor 0.5/1.0/2.0/2.0
Strike craft build speed increase: 10%/10%/20%/35%
Rate of fire increase: 2%/2%/5%/10%
Speed increase: 5%/7%/10%/15%
upkeep increase: 2%/5%/7%/10%

For Viscounts on the other hand could be more about agility than brute force, since that is what NR excels at.
Strike craft build speed increase: 5%/5%/15%/25%
Speed increase 2%/5%/15%/15%
Turn rate increase: 2%/5%/5%/15%
Range increase: 5%/10%/10%/20%
upkeep increase: 2%/5%/7%/10%

Also since the hand has no Titan class all their capitals could get a passive ability for free at level 10 which would give them, just to be fair
Extra armor0.5
Turn rate increase: 5%
Hyperspace charge up decrease: 5%
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Pali on June 04, 2016, 05:52:08 AM
I hate to say it, Kucs, but I think you're going the wrong direction there.  Titan abilities I think, given how each ship is unique, should be more than just stat bonuses - they should be what make the ship unique, not just a bigger capital ship.  The Sov is a great example of this - the superlaser is something no other ship in the game has, and it has grav wells to boot, making it truly terrifying if you're not ready for it.  The Bellator's power to weapons functions differently than lesser abilities of capital ships and requires micro to use properly, again making it stand out (that and the crapton of lasers that it lets fly ;)).  This I think is the direction Titan abilities should be developed in.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: tlmiller on June 04, 2016, 11:27:30 AM
I hate to say it, Kucs, but I think you're going the wrong direction there.  Titan abilities I think, given how each ship is unique, should be more than just stat bonuses - they should be what make the ship unique, not just a bigger capital ship.  The Sov is a great example of this - the superlaser is something no other ship in the game has, and it has grav wells to boot, making it truly terrifying if you're not ready for it.  The Bellator's power to weapons functions differently than lesser abilities of capital ships and requires micro to use properly, again making it stand out (that and the crapton of lasers that it lets fly ;)).  This I think is the direction Titan abilities should be developed in.

I agree.  Also the reason I'm a big fan of the NR capitals, they have interesting abilities as compared to the IR (Overwhelm + tractor beams).
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Revanchist on June 04, 2016, 11:43:51 AM
Yeah I am in agreement as well. Every ship having the same upgrades makes things a bit too cookie-cutter for my likes.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: A.J. on June 08, 2016, 04:54:43 PM
I've given a fair amount of thought to this, and while I think more development for the titans would be an amazing idea, I think they should be abilities that make the titans terrifying again. I remember the first time I came across an Executor in this game, and I almost crapped my pants! Now, it's not much of a terror for me anymore, as I can just hit it with a mass of cruiser and capital types and do a reasonable job of taking it down. I like the "intensify forward batteries" as an ability idea, as it is from the movie, but my only issue with it, is strike craft aren't in large enough numbers, or cause enough damage for that to be a sought after ability. I would suggest that ability auto-cast upon shields hitting 0, and within a certain range, firepower does X% more damage for a certain amount of time, at the cost of shield regeneration becoming 0, or a very small number. For the Viscount, the ability could be "back-up shields", where if the shields hit 25% or something, it could auto-cast for a giant immediate shield regeneration, and a high regen point. I don't know much about the Bellator, so I can't offer much advice there, nor have I really used it yet...I'm mainly a NR player. But just a few thoughts for this. I do like the track this is going though.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Pali on June 08, 2016, 06:26:14 PM
I agree.  Also the reason I'm a big fan of the NR capitals, they have interesting abilities as compared to the IR (Overwhelm + tractor beams).

I actually think tractors are perfectly appropriate, though there is an issue in that they will activate while the ship is out of weapon's range, so the ISD will hold the enemy ship but be unable to shoot it.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: tlmiller on June 08, 2016, 07:49:47 PM
I actually think tractors are perfectly appropriate, though there is an issue in that they will activate while the ship is out of weapon's range, so the ISD will hold the enemy ship but be unable to shoot it.

Oh, it's APPROPRIATE, but...boring.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Revanchist on June 08, 2016, 07:55:36 PM
Well, at least with the Torpedo Sphere we finally got one ship that wasn't Overwhelm + Tractor. Only issue I have with it is the energy required for the abilities is more than the energy they have for the first few levels of the abilities.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: tlmiller on June 08, 2016, 08:00:21 PM
They've fixed that in the newer builds.  They can use their abilities in the latest commits.  They're pretty fun, although I think they probably still need some tweaking.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Papa Palps on January 02, 2017, 01:05:40 PM
Hmm. That just gave me a cool idea (I have no idea how Sins works so this might be unfeasable) for different "paths" instead of standard upgrades. For example:

Knight Hammer track would decrease the upkeep cost and fleet supply each level, with the last level making it black and giving it extra fighter supply (as the Knight Hammer required fewer crew and actually carried closer to the number of fighters an Executor actually could carry if I recall)

Iron Fist track would increase hyperspace and sublight speed, with the last level giving it a one-time use "Save me" button activateable at low HP that would make it appear to be destroyed while actually jumping to the nearest capital shipyard (as the Iron Fist was used in hit-and-fades and that trick was used by Zsinj).

Reaper track would boost allegiance in your space and decrease enemy allegiance in theirs, with the last level also giving it an ability to generate a large amount of diplomatic points in other Imperial or Pentastar territory (as the Reaper was, in Imperial hands, used as a tool to attempt to reestablish faith in the Empire and bring wayward Imps "back into the fold.")

Lusankya track would provide a bonus against fighters and projectiles, with the last level giving it an ability to "activate sleeper agents" on a target ship, causing havoc in some way (as some of the heavy weaponry was replaced with more point defense systems and it was Isard's prison/reindoctrination center)

You can purchase any combination of these, but you could only get the highest tier if you invested all your points into that track.

I really love this idea.

For abilities, I think the SSDs should be offense-oriented, and the NR Star Dreadnaught defense-oriented with a defensive synergy with the rest of the NR fleet.  Here are some ideas for the Executor:

Intensify Firepower: boosts firing rates but reduces engine speed and shield recharge rate/amount
Intimidate: lowers the stats of the enemy fleet in damage/chance to hit
Inspiring through Fear/Reckless Ambition: gives a sort of frantic feel to the Imperial fleet with greater engine speed and firing rates, but makes it take more damage/have less accuracy (this would be a refinement of the Iron Grip ability)
Point Defense: destroys fighters and bombers within a short range

The Numerical Superiority ability is very redundant, the Executor should already have a lot of fighter complement (upgraded as it levels up).
I like the Concussion Barrage ability as it is pretty much, though it could be more powerful to be better suited for anti-fleet action.

For the Sovereign:

All the abilities are very good, though the Mass Effect ability does nothing and should be redone.  The Crack Mantle ability needs to be more damaging too.

For the Viscount:
Power to Shields: reduces speed and damage/firing rate but increases shield recharge rate/amount.
Sacrifice: forces enemies to target the Viscount in order to save your fleet from destruction.
Coordinate Efforts: the NR fleet tries to help and support each other, reducing offensive power but increasing the defense of the fleet (damage reduction, damage output reduction).
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: MaxL_1023 on February 04, 2017, 07:33:31 PM
I would like to see the Bellator get a barrage ability like the Ragnarov's explosive shot in stock. It has fewer but heavier guns appearance wise, so it would make sense for an area-suppression type ability to make it have a role against frigates/cruisers more so than pure anti-capital.

Would it also be possible to give at least a couple of the titans the shield and weapons upgrade levels which stock has? There are too many points for the abilities as it is (since titans get 20) and AFAIK it should be an option to have your SSDs optimized for standard fleet action if you do not want to use special abilities - something like ending up with 50% more HP, Shields and Raw Damage output if you invested 12 points in those areas.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: Papa Palps on February 05, 2017, 01:51:31 PM
I would like to see the Bellator get a barrage ability like the Ragnarov's explosive shot in stock. It has fewer but heavier guns appearance wise, so it would make sense for an area-suppression type ability to make it have a role against frigates/cruisers more so than pure anti-capital.

Would it also be possible to give at least a couple of the titans the shield and weapons upgrade levels which stock has? There are too many points for the abilities as it is (since titans get 20) and AFAIK it should be an option to have your SSDs optimized for standard fleet action if you do not want to use special abilities - something like ending up with 50% more HP, Shields and Raw Damage output if you invested 12 points in those areas.

Agreed.  Some more basic upgrades would be nice to give some titans a more battleship-type feel rather than a utilitarian-only feel.
Title: Re: Executor ability idea
Post by: at-dt on February 11, 2017, 05:58:24 PM
I think that the executor should have the ability to fire its broadside batteries, but the shield is easier to bring down. the shields around the weapons of the vessel drop for a second so it can fire, then bring shields back online.