Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Pox on May 13, 2014, 06:14:25 AM
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Corey: We're currently looking for any and all feedback to decide if we're going to add this feature to Imperial Civil War in 2.2.
For the past few years I have been working on bringing diplomacy to Empire at War and finally I can say that I am more or less finished.
I would like you to try this new feature with base FoC for now and hopefully when we are done we can add it to ICW.
Here is how it works:
1. Influence
-The galaxy map is divided into sectors. Each planet gets assigned a value that represents your current influence on that planet.
-If you lose a planet in a sector you lose influence on all other planets owned by you in the same sector.
-If you conquer a planet you gain influence on all other planets owned by you in that sector
-You gain a little influence every day on each planet you own.
-If your influence on a planet drops to 0 you lose that planet (affiliation changes to neutral if no enemy diplomat or fleet is present)
-You can have a look on your current influence by clicking on the Show Credits filter button on the command bar (will be changed later)
2. Diplomats
-Every faction gets a diplomat unit with a build limit of one at a time
-Diplomats have galactic stealth
-If a diplomat is in orbit of a planet owned by another faction, the faction's influence on that planet will decrease every day
-If the influence hits 0 while a diplomat is present the affiliation of that planet will change to the faction the diplomat belongs to. The diplomat also gets removed.
-Diplomats are also removed when the planet affiliation changes due to another faction conquering the planet
-Diplomats are minor heroes that can be killed by bounty hunters(currently the only way to get rid of a diplomat)
-AI diplomats only choose planets owned by the player
-For now diplomats are units that only cost 1 Credit
-The rebel diplomat has a mon calamari cruiser icon, the empire and underworld have Tartan cruiser icons.(since you can only play the empire in this version you'll have no problem identifying which diplomat belongs to which faction)
What I would like you to look out for while testing:
-Is the AI targeting always the same planets with its diplomats? (this is what I have seen so far in the beginning of a GC, however I have not played a full GC yet)
-Are diplomats always removed correctly? (due to losing planets after battles etc)
-Are AI diplomats always spawned at the same time? (this can happen, but should not always happen)
-Is the AI also killing your diplomats?
-Does the AI place troops on planets that have been taken over by diplomats?
Design related things:
-Is diplomacy actually a threat to you? (at the moment I think if you keep track of your influence you can easily prevent any planet from being taken over)
If you have any suggestions on how to improve the diplomacy system I'd be glad to hear them.
However, there is one thing I'd rather not change if I don't have to and that is adding more diplomats per faction.
This is due to two reasons:
1. I have designed the whole script to work with one diplomat per faction and it would take quite a while to change that
2. While having diplomacy is fun I think the main aspect of Empire at War is the combat part and I don't think being able to take over the whole galaxy with diplomacy is a really good idea
And finally, the download link:
Download (https://mega.co.nz/#!booU2LRS!qA8GCZU4vr9jMDe42TdErVSw-_pzZ5DcraiM3d69hiY)
EDIT:
For those who'd like to have some more details on how the system works:
What happens with the influence every day:
-If you have more than one planet in a sector you gain +5 influence on each of your planets in this sector
-If you have a hero on that planet you gain additional +5 influence on that planet (having more heroes on the planet does NOT increase the influence bonus)
-If you don't have other planets in a sector you lose 5 influence on that planet
-If an enemy diplomat is on one of your planets you lose 20 influence on that planet
How does the AI determine which planet is most suitable for a diplomacy mission:
Diplomacy_Desire =
(1 - Low_Ground_Defense_Score ) * 33 +
(1 - Low_Space_Defense_Score) * 33 +
GenericPlanetValue * 100 +
(100 - current_owners_influence) / 3
( + a random desire bonus from 0 to 20 if Diplomacy_Desire <= 70)
Low_Ground_Defense_Score, Low_Space_Defense_Score and GenericPlanetValue are AI functions that return a value between 0 and 1
current_owners_influence represents the exact current influence of the planet's owner with a value between 0 and 100
I'll also give you a list with the planets in each sector, since there is currently no visual representation that tells you which planet belongs to which sector:
Sector I:
"AlzocIII",
"Carida",
"Ilum",
"Jabiim",
"Manaan"
Sector II:
"Coruscant",
"Byss",
"Abregado_Rae",
"Anaxes",
"Corulag",
"Fresia"
Sector III:
"Bothawui",
"Corellia",
"Kashyyyk",
"Kessel",
"Kuat"
Sector IV:
"Hypori",
"Mandalore",
"NalHutta",
"Ryloth",
"Shola"
Sector V:
"Dagobah",
"Geonosis",
"Mustafar",
"Naboo",
"Tatooine",
"Utapau"
Sector VI:
"Atzerri",
"Bespin",
"Bestine",
"Hoth",
"Sullust"
Sector VII:
"Endor",
"Fondor",
"Polus",
"Taris",
"Thyferra"
Sector VIII:
"Bonadan",
"Dathomir",
"Muunilinst",
"Myrkr"
Sector IX:
"Korriban",
"Yavin"
Sector X:
"Honoghr",
"Kamino",
"MonCalimari",
"Saleucami"
The planets "AetenII", "Dantooine", "Felucia" and "Wayland" are missing from that list. They cannot be taken over with diplomacy in this version. The reason for that is a bug that is already fixed, but I forgot to put the planets back in.
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Patch1:
Bug Fixes:
-Fixed a bug where planets would lose influence even if a friendly diplomat was in orbit
-Fixed a bug where the AI would kill enemy diplomats even when they were on planets not owned by an AI faction
-A new diplomat should be buildable now once the old one is lost
Changes:
-When diplomacy desire is calculated the script now checks if the desire for a certain planet is lower than the current maximum desire for another planet and only then adds a random integer from 0 to 40 to the desire value.
Maybe this will help with the issue of the AI always targeting the same planet.
Download (https://mega.co.nz/#!ftYlHKAa!cTwVr9n4omdxRNI84VEQpL0kKERIbefX9NV2VlOO5iQ)
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Just to highlight, this is currently a standalone mod for FoC until we get feedback on the system and can implement it into ICW: Don't try installing this onto ICW or you'll break your copy of ICW.
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Interesting
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Edited the first post to give some additional information
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-If a diplomat is on one of your planets you lose 20 influence on that planet
I assume this is for enemy diplomats? Or do you lose 20 influence per day for having your own diplomat on your own planet? :-\
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Yes, enemy diplomat of course. I'll edit that.
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I'm not quite sure how this is possible...but I'm not complaining! Go for it.
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Will there be a chance to sell children as hostagesfor ttreaties as in total war? lol jk of course
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So, it's been a while since I've posted this.
Has anyone tested this, yet?
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So, it's been a while since I've posted this.
Has anyone tested this, yet?
I'll be testing it as soon as I get back from vacation.
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I've installed it. I count for something! (I'll do some more once my company leaves).
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So, it's been a while since I've posted this.
Has anyone tested this, yet?
I did. (http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=4947.0)
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I have uploaded a patch. See first post for DL link.
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Has anybody tried the new patch, yet?
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Just tried to download it (assuming it's the second download link) and it doesn't seem to want to open.
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It seems there is something wrong with mega, since I can't log in either.
I hope it'll work again later. If it's not fixed by tomorrow I'll upload the files somewhere else.
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It's working again.
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Moving this to a more public area.
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So I tried it out and it worked. Radically changed the strategies available. I like it and hope it gets implemented into ICW!
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i cant get it to work it does limit me to just the emperials but there are no diplomats and no influance
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i cant get it to work it does limit me to just the emperials but there are no diplomats and no influance
Read the first post, everything you need to know is explained there.
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It seems to work fine for me. It ultimately does what it is supposed to and I would like to see it finished.
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Hello, I appear to have a chronic case of disappearing diplomats. About 5 to 10 minutes into a new GC, my diplomats simply disappear, and I know it's not an assassination because they could be gone the moment they reach a planet. After that, I'm unable to make a new one. Also, I somehow got an influence into the negatives and kept the planet.
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You need to download the patch as well. The link is at the bottom oft the first post.
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I must give this a try
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You need to download the patch as well. The link is at the bottom oft the first post.
Thanks
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This is pretty interesting actually 8=). The AI only really went for Coruscant, Sullust, Corellia, and Bespin(the only planet I took by force). I may need that patch on the bottom left of the front page, though, because I could only build 1 diplomat(which took Fondor).
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Wish when you took it via diplomacy the defenses were intact
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Maybe heroes like Leia , Mon mothma can act as diplomats too.
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We have considered this, but since heroes don't respawn in ICW you'd lose them permanently if a diplomacy attempt fails, so we have decided to not give them diplomatic abilities.
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I've been trying it out, and it certainly does add an extra challenge. Although you start with Boba Fett, I found I had to rush a planet that can produce bounty hunters and quickly get them pumped out, otherwise the enemies end up with an early advantage. Having to check the credits tab all the time is a real ball-ache, I'd recommend giving planetary influence its own display on the galactic map. Also, it would be better if we could see how our diplomat is influencing another planet, as at the moment, you just leave it on an enemy planet and wait until it becomes yours with no indication of how long it'll take.
It's a very interesting system and I would encourage you to keep working on it. As a fan of the Hand of Thrawn duology, it would be awesome to do Final Imperial Push using diplomacy to be a bit more accurate to the novels.
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Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Unfortunately the credits tab is the only place of the GUI where I can display information with changing variables. However, I may implement a pop up message when your influence is running low in future updates.
As for the 'just place your diplomat in orbit and wait' issue there is not too much I can do about that unfortunately. The only thing that I could think of is displaying the remaining enemy influence in the influence table as well.
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Does the planet switch sides regardless of ground troops being present on the planet? That would not make much sense to me.
In SW Rebellion; the really old PC game, diplomacy would determine which side the planet would join but garrison forces of sufficient strength would maintain control, and the size of the garrison(if needed) and would be based on the planet's loyalty(which is changed by diplomacy/incite uprising missions). For example; the planet Chandrila may be completely loyal to the Rebels/NR but the Empire maintains control by having sufficiently high numbers of ground troops deployed there. If the planet garrison drops below those numbers then the planet goes into uprising and will lose troops until it switches sides by killing all the garrison troops, or the troops are reinforced and Imperial diplomats change public opinion.
That was a good system and a diplomatic system for this game that takes into account the forces present, like that one did, would be great.
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I like the idea of keeping control if sufficient amounts of ground troops are present in general, however while EaW has a function to check whether a planet has a low ground defense score I'm not sure if it's accurate enough to use it for that purpose.
I'll leave it at losing your planet when the influence hits 0 for now, since I'm still not done rewriting the whole thing.
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Also tried, and works just fine, however in my opinion this 4 planet units might be too small for ICW, and the diplomatic effects are a little bit high, even for FoC.
Despite these minor things it's a great mod. I like it a lot.
I recommend it to ICW, if you can slightly change things. This should be implemented into ICW like the planetary bonus, as it has been removed from the mod if that's possible.
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Have you considered accurate planet bonuses to change influence in regions or throughout the galaxy? Planets that hold meaning and power in the galaxy (Coruscant for example) have more diplomacy bonuses? Or certain planets are more accepting of diplomacy from other factions? Corulag, Byss, and Carida might be more open to imperial diplomacy, for instance, because of longstanding support of the Empire. It's just a thought but it would add another layer of strategy to an interesting gameplay mechanic.
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That's a pretty good idea.
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I'd also like to posit that I think the diplomacy function should be optional in case people just want a straight up classic game of invading plants.
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one idea the empire controls their worlds with fear so if the empire doesnt have so much troops on ground the people of the planet will think more in rebellion
so use this concept if you just have buildings on a planet more influence you lost and do this as one addon to the mod if you dont want this just dont put the addon or on the start of the game you can change to turn off the diplomatic stuff good work and good idea
Sorry for the bad english i am from Brazil
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Probably impossible but is there a way to institute some sort of political dealings between factions. I find it weird the pentastar alignment can't at least maintain neutrality with the empire for a time or the EOTH can't be isolationist. Would possibly make the game weird but with additional minor factions could be an interesting aspect. Trade (boost to income) , alliances, all that would add a whole layer to game. But like I said probably impossible in engine
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I already asked for that but it is not possible due to EaWs game limitations. A shame because we could have had elements of Total War
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yeah that would be awesome. too bad the ones who made EaW had no idea of what they could be doing...
they could have made such a game...
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I can't remember who said it but someone said that thrawn's revenge is what EaW should of been and he's completely right.
Think of it a small team made a game that an entire company failed at and yes you used a few bits from the base game but that's 1 drop in an ocean.
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I can't remember who said it but someone said that thrawn's revenge is what EaW should of been and he's completely right.
Think of it a small team made a game that an entire company failed at and yes you used a few bits from the base game but that's 1 drop in an ocean.
you forgot to mention that they did it in their free time with no payment
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Glad to see that there's some interest in the diplomacy system again!
A while ago I re-wrote it from scratch and it's pretty much done (only for the base game, though).
There's only one new feature, but the new structure will make it easier to add new things to it if we ever choose to do so.
As for the new feature, I'm pretty sure I have stated before that it is impossible to do, but we no longer have to just "park" a diplomat on an enemy plant. Instead we can now use the probe droid's "spy" slot to initiate diplomacy.
Picture 1 (http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/547554819046504560/85D072A513C30C91F7E4DD58DF701C74BC2D00A7/)
And in this case, it will also tell me that I'm not allowed to use diplomacy on that planet.
Picture 2 (http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/547554819046503024/ED0BF2C25BDAC50951F61A5FB2C5741D0A704CF4/)
Also, I have played some ICW a while back and I think when we add diplomacy things may get quite a bit harder.
Maybe it's just because I suck at FoC, but especially in the beginning of a GC there would be times when an enemy faction would siege one of my planets in orbit and I couldn't really do anything about it for a while until I had a large enough fleet.
With diplomacy enabled that situation puts a timer on the player, because in the new version you will lose influence over time when an enemy fleet stays in orbit of one of your planets.
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you forgot to mention that they did it in their free time with no payment
Exactly they made a mod that was better looking and played better, they did it in their free time for nearly a decade and all they get in return is people saying how great they are and messages like this.
All I can do is say thanks for everything Thrawn's Revenge team and I hope you can keep it going for many decades to come.
(Also yes I know I did just bring the subject away from what it's supposed to be).
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you will lose influence over time when an enemy fleet stays in orbit of one of your planets.
That sounds amazing. What'll happen to your ground forces on the planet if you lose all the influence with the enemy fleet in orbit above?
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That sounds amazing. What'll happen to your ground forces on the planet if you lose all the influence with the enemy fleet in orbit above?
You won't lose them. They will be moved to the nearest friendly planet. Something that EaW does by itself actually.
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Yeah. Would be so glad to see this in ICW.
Firstly it would put an extra layer of dificulty into it, and the other is diplomacy would give overpowered factions a big bad stop button over the soon coming warlord factions
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Yeah, unfortunately you can't really do anything like that within the game.
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Did we see diplomacy in the new ICW Version 2.2?
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Interesting idea, and a cool one at that. Though would you at all be willing to let me use your work in my mod? I'd love to use it in order to stand out from all the other CW mods.
Thanks, Barlex
(Also, should you be interested, this is my mod http://www.moddb.com/mods/ratcw )
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Would be interesting if you could form alliances and such with other factions like in Total War but I know that can't be implemented...would be interesting though
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Would be interesting if you could form alliances and such with other factions like in Total War but I know that can't be implemented...would be interesting though
Well if you believe the Vong at War mod such a thing may be possible.
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That's not what their system is doing. They've got a similar system except it's based around, when you have certain territory, you can build certain things or get certain bonuses. It's not terribly different to a lot of what we have. A lot of the time when they're doing stuff they're asking Pox how to implement it.
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That's not what their system is doing. They've got a similar system except it's based around, when you have certain territory, you can build certain things or get certain bonuses. It's not terribly different to a lot of what we have. Most of the time when they're doing stuff they're asking Pox how to implement it.
Ah gotcha
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That's not what their system is doing. They've got a similar system except it's based around, when you have certain territory, you can build certain things or get certain bonuses. It's not terribly different to a lot of what we have. A lot of the time when they're doing stuff they're asking Pox how to implement it.
I didn't figure it was possible.
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I hope it dose well in 2.2 it's really great Diplomacy System.
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Lets hope it does good for 2.2
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if you want more suggestions for diplomacy try AoTR, which has a great diplomacy system with sectors and rebels being able to incite rebellion. try it and see what else you find
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I tried downloading it but I can't find the launcher. Help please.
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I tried downloading it but I can't find the launcher. Help please.
I'm pretty sure its only for the base game not ICW
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I have a quick question, could you ever program it into the files where you can actually ally with another empire in the game? Like make it where you have all your diplomats at the enemy capital and have them have the ability to make an alliance with the other empire for let's say 150,000-200,000 credits? That's a high value but you could basically hard code it where all the other empire's units, buildings, and planets now are under the faction that purchased the ability, you could also tie this in with story elements. Such as how heroes could leave factions or new heroes could pop up based on their thoughts of the new alliance. And it would provide a precarious situation for the player as they have to save up all those credits while also keeping your territory locked down. This could be a major late game boost, but you could also implement it where AI factions could ally with other AI factions which as a player would leave me with a sense of dread.
This is only a thought and this sounds great in concept but it probably would be a nightmare to code, I don't know, I just wish EAW had more interaction and that your interactions towards other factions had a lot more weight. But it's whatever, your idea fr diplomacy sounds good! And I like the idea as a whole
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not possible. Diplomatic relations are set for factions as a whole.
We can set two factions to be allies, but then you can never change them to be enemies, and this is not even on a GC basis, but a global one.
If IR and NR are allies, they have to be allies in every single GC for example.
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You actually can change it with LUA, but the bigger problem is that directly tagging factions as neutral or allied causes a lot of weird bugs, since the game wasn't designed with that kind of interaction in mind.
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That's what I figured, EAW is a great game but it is severely limiting at times and I assumed that this was the case on how the factions were coded. Thanks for the answer
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I know this may be a stretch, but if anyone has played star wars rebellion pc game (not FF board game), as the Empire and you had the death star in a sector, you got a boost on all planets. I understand we dont have those type of weapons, but maybe a fleet in a troublesome sector may boost influence.
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Would not make much sense
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An interesting idea; I was missing the diplomacy feature from Rebellion when I first got Empire at War (and Forces of Corruption), and I remember seeing some commented out stuff in the XML files for it. Never got around to trying it, though. Seeing it in Imperial Civil War, if not already voted against earlier, would be interesting idea, too.
Everything seems to work fine, if you're still working on it. The AI tends to go for the same planet first on each of my games (generally testing on Origin of Corruption), but it could just be rotten luck as afterwards it seems completely random.
Nice job, Pox.
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Is this still being considered?
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Not in this form. It wasn't especially fun or engaging.
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To be honest, it seems the team is developing a much more sophisticated "diplomacy" system, by showing different kinds of war. You have the quasi-war of the PA sending small fleets to attack (which I'm really fond of as a concept, it just tests you while you're fending off the larger forces of other factions), and then the more violent actions of other factions.
On a related note, maybe faction aggression could die down if you don't fight them for a period of time? Would it be possible to have the enemy faction notice when you have fleets on the border, and thus force you to keep large fleets away from border systems?