Thrawn's Revenge
Ascendancy [SoaSE] => Ascendancy Discussion => Topic started by: Corey on March 22, 2014, 06:20:18 AM
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Discuss ideas for technologies. Please refer to Dev Diary #6: Technological Horticulture (http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=4873.msg46932#msg46932) before posting.
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An idea I have for the Remnant is one of the researches could be called "Imperial Fear Doctrine" and when researched it adds maybe one or two capital ship points.
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- Fleet Doctrine -
an upgrade any faction that wishes to establish more "empire" like qualities or go full rebellion. Wedge said it best During the X-wing series when he was remarking upon the fact that the new republic had essentially become the empire - with established bases they had to protect, while Zsjini had become the rebellion, hitting and running. Each doctrine would build into the upgrades, you would only get to pick one then it block off the other route.
Established Empire - 5/10/15% speed of hyperspace jumping.
Interdiction minus 10/20/35% Enemy ship Hyperspace charge up in your systems.
Structure Defence. +1/2/4% hp of structures.
Established Tax Base +5/10/15% Tax income.
Rebellion - 5/10/15% + speed of ships in system.
Hit and Run -Agility of ships increased by 10/20/35%,
Raid and Plunder - Recover 0.5/1/2% of credits gained from kills.
Smugglers route -5/10/15% discount on black market resources .
- Guild/organization Doctrine -
Pick one, this represents the "tolerated" organizations, for the empire this would be represented by their willingness to work with bounty hunters, or the rebellions willingness to work with Smugglers.
- Bounty Hunter Guild -
Best Weapons 2/5/9% damage bonus,2/4/6% hp bonus to ships, Ships cost 1/2/3% more
Headhunting -Additional damage against capital ships 5/10/15%,
Mercs - May hire mercenary forces from Culture centre.
Trophies - Ships killed receive 5/10/15% more experience to capitals.
- Smugglers Guild -
Black Market - better prices on the black market
Duck and weave - Trade ships gain 10/20/30% more in system speed and agility
Cut and run - 2/4/6% faster charge up for hyperspace ships leaving enemy territory
Corruption - Receive 5/10/15% income from trade goods, trade ports are 4/8/12% cheaper to build, minus 2/4/6% tax income.
- Intelligence Network -
Networking - Culture spreads 5/10/15 % faster, 2/4/6% strength in culture, minus 5/10/15% when culture "breaks through" enemy planets (eg when culture overwhelms and enemy planet it will take longer for it to consolidate and start spreading through.
Informants - Gain vision on every system that culture has spread too
Sabotage - When culture spreads to enemy planet, it loses population 10/20/35% of current population
Partisans - "Liberation" forces sometimes spawn in enemy territory
- Jedi Temple -
Defenders - 10/20/30% bombing resistance
Centre of Learning - 10/20/35% research time, 2/4/6% reduction in researching cost Minus 2/4/6 fleet supply.
Roaming Peacekeepers - 5/10/15% increase in trade income.
Guidance of the force - 2/4/6% shield hp.
- Sith Temple -
Sith order - 5/10/15% income to tax base, Population grows 10/20/30% faster, minus 2/4/6% research time.
Fleet in Being - +25,+50,+75 fleet supply (based on large games)
Dominance - 5/10/15% culture spread rate.
Structured societies- +5 +10 +15, bonus "happiness"
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Some possible New Republic-specific techs, if you're looking for faction-specific things
Mon Calamari Construction Protocols: Increase capital ship, cruiser and frigate shield strength and regen by 5% / 10% / 15%, at the cost of 10% / 20% / 30% construction speed.
The New Republic was never the fastest at bringing new ships or ship classes online, but when it did, they had some of the best and most powerful shields in the galaxy. Mon Remonda went toe-to-toe with Iron Fist several times, despite its much smaller size, and survived several of those encounters at least in part through canny use of its shielding capabilities.
Legacy of Rogue Squadron: Increase starfighter and bomber shield strength and damage by 3% / 6% / 10%, at the cost of 6% / 12% / 20% fighter and bomber construction speeds.
The New Republic relied on starfighter superiority, and much of their advantage in that area came from grueling training regimens and exhaustive testing of new pilots BEFORE they were allowed on the front lines.
Hold the Line: In any gravity well where the Alliance / New Republic holds a cultural majority, increase damage output and hit points of all ships by 2% / 4% / 6%.
The Alliance and New Republic fought to defend their freedom from the tyranny of the Empire. When that freedom was on the line, they fought all the more tenaciously.
Of course, I'm a huge fan of factions that emphasize victory through the strength of the elite few, so of COURSE those are the things I'd want to buff.
Perhaps, taking a page from Meo's organizational technique, I might suggest the following Fleet Doctrines:
We Have Reserves: 10% / 20% / 30% overall fleet supply; 5% / 10% / 15% ship HP and / or damage.
Forced Conscription: Reduce cost of all unit recruitment, but increase how much planetary allegiance falls off with distance from capital
Replaceable Parts: Increase regeneration rate of all capital ship, frigate and cruiser hit point pools by 3% / 6% / 10%, and increase rate of starfighter and bomber construction by 6% / 13% / 20%.
Darken the Skies: Ships in a gravity well of enemy culture will convert it more quickly; ships in a gravity well of friendly culture will provide additional pushback against invading enemy culture.
Opposed by:
Leave No Man Behind: 5% / 10% / 15% shield HP and regen for all craft; 10% / 20% / 30% construction speed for all craft.
Volunteer Army: Decrease planetary allegiance falloff with distance from capital, but increase all unit recruitment costs.
Individuality: Increase damage output of starfighters and bombers by 3% / 6% / 10%, and increase HP pools for Capital ships, Frigates and Cruisers by 2% / 4% / 6%.
For Our People: Ships fight more effectively in friendly cultural zones.
Individuality: Increase damage output of starfighters and bombers by 3% / 6% / 10%, and increase HP pools for Capital ships, Frigates and Cruisers by 2% / 4% / 6%.
That was supposed to read:
Individuality: Increase damage output of starfighters and bombers by 3% / 6% / 10%, and increase HP pools for Capital ships, Frigates and Cruisers by 2% / 4% / 6%.
Sorry. Proofreading fail. And I also failed to notice that I wasn't logged in when I hit "post". Whoops.
[Fixed that for you - Corey]
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On a side note, keep in mind we're trying to avoid eventuality upgrades. Think upgrades that have downsides that make you change your playstyle for them. BUT, Meo, why aren't you registered? We'd love to have more consistent fans like you.
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for EotH in weapons upgrade line could be megamaser replacements
I mean they start all ships with laser/turbolaser cannons, and as the player proceeds with the weapon upgrades they will be replaced by megamasers like this:
1.Laser cannon => Megamasers (anti fighter ones)
2.Turbo lasers => Megamasers
3.Dual Lasers and Turbolasers => Dual megamasers
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so it would make realistic the Hand's weapon upgrade projects
For the NR would be kinda sweet to see as they really establishing the Republic trough tech researches
As for the empire, i don't really know, as they are more like in a crysis than a rapid advancement unlike the NR, so i think they would more depend on cost reduction and increasing build speed than new tecnologies.
but this is only my oppinion
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Masers and megamasers weren't invented in this period, they were standard Chiss technology so they would have been present on any EotH ship from the start.
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Maybe the world devastators and the galaxy gun could be reward units in an 'intimidation' doctrine, relating to the shock and awe tactics the Empire was so fond of. Use of world devastators could inflict a small diplomatic relations penalty, and constructing the galaxy gun could likewise have a similar but much more massive debuff.
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One tech for the Empire could be the Tarkin Doctrine which gives some build time and/or cost reductions but also diplomatic relations penalty which begs the question would it be possible to have the penalty affect only NR and EOTH?
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Unfortunetly my validation email wont go through to my email >.<.
I've checked everything upto spam folder but it isnt letting me register
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Masers and megamasers weren't invented in this period, they were standard Chiss technology so they would have been present on any EotH ship from the start.
i doesn't ment to invent them, i ment to replace the imperial standards.
i tought it cuz of the Chiss Ascendancy is not the same with the hand wich is using half imperial half chiss tech
i was in fact thinking for an ISD with megamasers :D
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an another idea, but this time for the IR:
if u could somehow would be abble to make upgradeabble ships (i don't know if it is possibe), than ISD II and VSD II s could be upgraded from their precessors...
Would be sweet, and balance the game a bit.
Also VSD IIs could have the crimson command style red platings via upgrade...
And for the SSD would be nice to upgrade it like the titans in original game...
Also would be nice if people would be abble to choose 1 costum upgrade for them just like the Starbases of the vanila (a stealth armor like the knight hammer's, or something this usefull)
For diplomacy and culture, an upgrade called:
-The fear factor: Wich would give a diplomacy pen. , but increase the culture spread of your fraction :)
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an another idea, but this time for the IR:
if u could somehow would be abble to make upgradeabble ships (i don't know if it is possibe), than ISD II and VSD II s could be upgraded from their precessors...
Would be sweet, and balance the game a bit.
Also VSD IIs could have the crimson command style red platings via upgrade...
And for the SSD would be nice to upgrade it like the titans in original game...
Also would be nice if people would be abble to choose 1 costum upgrade for them just like the Starbases of the vanila (a stealth armor like the knight hammer's, or something this usefull)
For diplomacy and culture, an upgrade called:
-The fear factor: Wich would give a diplomacy pen. , but increase the culture spread of your fraction :)
For ISD's it would be nice to be able to upgrade them to the ISD-II standard since the ISD-II is superior in every way, however while the VSD-II was designed to rectify issues with the VSD-I, they really fill different niches. The VSD-I is a great defensive ship with the ability to target fighters/corvettes very well due to it's concussion missiles. The VSD-II is more of a true warship, designed to go toe to toe with capital ships and be able to outrun and outmaneuver it's larger opponents.
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I had a couple ideas for EoTH mobility tech. A part of the techs be focused on "gotta go fast" dogma and have some sort of speed increase while sacrificing armor and/or shields that could be combined with another tech that increases weapon damage while decreasing shields to make for a good hit and run force. You could then have a different direction and have a reversal of something like the techs above?
I was also curious about how the team/anyone would feel about some EoTH ships getting a cloaking device (Specifically the Vigilance).
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I had a couple ideas for EoTH mobility tech. A part of the techs be focused on "gotta go fast" dogma and have some sort of speed increase while sacrificing armor and/or shields that could be combined with another tech that increases weapon damage while decreasing shields to make for a good hit and run force. You could then have a different direction and have a reversal of something like the techs above?
I was also curious about how the team/anyone would feel about some EoTH ships getting a cloaking device (Specifically the Vigilance).
Try writing the tech in a way that it'd appear in the tech tree. Helps some of us visualize it better. Like ;
GOTTA GO FAST. : Warlord, Vigilance, Decimator, and Kariek class ships all receive a 6/12/18% speed bonus at the cost of a 7/14/21% reduction to weapon power.
I remember us talking about cloaking but making it very similar to how it worked in the books. IE ; all vision is lost, any information in the system is lost, things like that. It has a serious downside to it basically. I remember that the reason we thought about this was because the game doesn't actually do cloaking very well. If anyone remembers the Vasari cap ship that makes itself "phase" out, this is what we'd use to do the ability. I like this idea personally. Also, I love the fast reference.
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Unfortunetly my validation email wont go through to my email >.<.
I've checked everything upto spam folder but it isnt letting me register
I just manually activated your account(s). You should be able to log in now.
If anyone remembers the Vasari cap ship that makes itself "phase" out, this is what we'd use to do the ability
Not necessarily, there's a few ways to do it.
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Alrighty, will rewrite to help visualizing!
GOTTA GO FAST part of the tree:
Warlord, Vigilance, Decimator, Asdoni, Au'Riette, Nurudo, and Kariek class ships all receive a 5%/10%/15% bonus to speed at the cost of a 4%/8%/12% reduction of shields.
Ascendancy, Phalanx, and Syndic class ships all receive a 5%/10%/15% bonus to speed at the cost of a 4%/8%/12% reduction of shields.
Warlord, Vigilance, Decimator, Asdoni, Au'Riette, Nurudo, Kariek, Ascendancy, Phalanx, and Syndic class ships all receive a 6%/12%/18% bonus to weapon damage AND speed at the cost of a 5%/10%/15% reduction of armor AND shileds
(The last one I'm not sure how it'd work out, the intention would be to make the EoTH ships really strong glass cannons
DROP BOWS ON 'EM/GET TANKY part of the tree:
Warlord, Vigilance, Decimator, Asdoni, Au'Riette, Nurudo, and Kariek class ships all receive a 5%/10%/15% bonus to shields at the cost of a 4%/8%/12% reduction of weapon damage
Ascendancy, Phalanx, and Syndic class ships all receive a 5%/10%/15% bonus to shields at the cost of a 4%/8%/12% reduction of weapon damage
Warlord, Vigilance, Decimator, Asdoni, Au'Riette, Nurudo, Kariek, Ascendancy, Phalanx, and Syndic class ships all receive a 6%/12%/18% bonus to Shields and armor at the cost of a 5%/10%/15% reduction of speed AND weapon damage.
I remeber seeing mention of the EoTH being focused on defense as well as speed, the 2 trees could represent two sides of EoTH military tactics being hard hitting and fast, or being slow and defensive. Of course al the numbers aren't real, since I have little idea how it'd translate to the game, but I'm assuming they'd be evened so as to make it that if you for some reason got all of the techs it would bring you to neutral values of all the stats.
I'm interested in other's opinions of this as well!
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Thank you !
how broad are we running with the upgrades, are we just talking fleet? Because I play sins a lot, and the culture aspect as well as trade is more empire based. If this game is going to be a limited fight between warlords then hey fine fleet upgrades are the way to go. If we are talking about an entire empire through multiple eras then I think empire based upgrades should be the way to go. to that end I'd probably just hang mutually exclusive negatives on my upgrades to make it simply not viable to go for both, and go from there.
Though i do like the guild system it might be a bit to much Civ policy like.
Meo
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we know the NR doesnt't built up it's senate in one day, so i tought for an upgrade line:
-Senatorian meetings:Gives a +5% Alligance, and +5% extra Culture Spread Across the galaxy.
-Senatorian talks: Gives an additional +5% Alligance, and +5% extra Culture Spread Across the galaxy.
-Congresses: Gives the NR an overall +20% Alligance, and +15% extra Culture Spread Across the galaxy.
For trade:
-Regional Trading: Gives a +5% for trading.
-Republic wide Trading: Gives an additional +5% for trading.
And
-Fastened Trading: Gives a +15% for trading craft spped
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here is one for the IR. Mixed Race Military "Allow alien species into the Imperial Navy". A 5%/10%/15% increase to Culture Spread but with a 5%/10%/15% decrease to Allegiance. The reasoning behind these changes is the idea that the Imperial Remnant started allowing all races into their military thus improving their galactic image and promoting other races to join them. But along with this increased diplomatic strength the human populations back home become upset so your Allegiance drops.
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I would love to see more "perks" or "techs" that really gives you a change but also something to take into account. Like SoGe's Wookie slaves, improved production speed at the cost of ship's durability. Below's just some ideas I would like to throw, not finished by any means I'm afraid.
New Republic:
Kucsidave suggested New Republic's senate and it's development - I would like to see how improving it also causes the political structure to became heavier and more bureaucratic as NR increases in power and influence. This was something that was quite clearly visible in the books, old leaders of the Alliance cursing the new "Empire" like organization. But what this debuff could be, is still a small problem... Slow decision making process --> slower structure building time/research (to simulate red tape)?
Imperial Remnants:
Council of Moffs - United Warlord Fleet - Gas chamber (Daala, anyone?)
With this I means how divided the remnants were, using their ships to their own benefits and not trusting others. I would like to see these as three equally powerful options, and has effect to play style. For example:
Council of Moffs: An Empire formed from the unified holdings of various Imperial Warlords who had ruled their own territories... the council appoints the Supreme Commander - who is unable to execute any large scale decisions without the council's consensus
+ Strong military
+ defence orientated
- supercap limited (kept as reserves/protection against rivals)
- slow and clumsy (?)
United Warlord Fleet: one leader unites the remnants
- middle form of these two
Gas chamber: Daala attempted to unify the Imperial warlords, but found little success. She executed them, then took command of their forces... Daala has no political motives
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New Republic: Kucsidave suggested New Republic's senate and its development - I would like to see how improving it also causes the political structure to became heavier and more bureaucratic as NR increases in power and influence.
Imperial Remnants: Three equally powerful "doctrines", playstyles
Council of Moffs:
+ Strong military, defence orientated
- supercap limited (kept as reserves/protection against rivals), slow and clumsy (?)
United Warlord Fleet: one leader unites the remnants
- middle form of these two
Gas chamber:
+ Best ships unlocked, Assault orientated, Rebuilding the Empire
- Unrest in system, rebels, Huge political minus
Posting is really bugged, this cuts my posts in half no matter how I try to summarize... and remove the post above (my guest post)
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Thank you !
how broad are we running with the upgrades, are we just talking fleet? Because I play sins a lot, and the culture aspect as well as trade is more empire based. If this game is going to be a limited fight between warlords then hey fine fleet upgrades are the way to go. If we are talking about an entire empire through multiple eras then I think empire based upgrades should be the way to go. to that end I'd probably just hang mutually exclusive negatives on my upgrades to make it simply not viable to go for both, and go from there.
Though i do like the guild system it might be a bit to much Civ policy like.
Meo
I don't think we can do Eras the same way we did them in ICW. If you have any ideas, please post them. Just remember that we like really creative ideas that are more than just "I win" upgrades. One of the abilities that we suggested internally that I really liked (Maybe cause I suggested it lol) was an ability for Interdictors that allows them to pull fighters and smaller ships into it at the cost of dealing damage to the Ship as it happened. This is obviously a tech upgrade as well. Things like this that are creative and require creative usage are super smiled upon.
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New Republic:
Kucsidave suggested New Republic's senate and it's development - I would like to see how improving it also causes the political structure to became heavier and more bureaucratic as NR increases in power and influence. This was something that was quite clearly visible in the books, old leaders of the Alliance cursing the new "Empire" like organization. But what this debuff could be, is still a small problem... Slow decision making process --> slower structure building time/research (to simulate red tape)?
Well it is a good idea i think.
That negative effect will really balance things, and thx for the support. I tought of it cuz of the books, so i am glad you gave the same example.
You just earned my approval
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Steady Supply of Warheads NR starfighters get a 5% 10% 15% increase to damage to capital ships or maybe lowering of reload time between volleys of warheads.
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Imperial Remnants and/or the Empire of the Hand :
Anti-TRD (Trench Run Disease)
+ Lancers gain range/damage buff against starfighters
Explanation: It was not until the emergence of Grand Admiral Thrawn in 9 ABY that Lancer-class frigates were put to good use. Thrawn used the frigates in raiding missions against key New Republic worlds, slicing through starfighter-based defences
Empire of the Hand :
Accepting xenos
+ more recruits --> fleet supply? More officers (capital slots)?
+ culture/happiness bonus
- negative sides? Slower recruitment/training (different races)?
Explanation: "As long as your world is a member of the Empire of the Hand, you're eligible to join into our ranks."
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i think i just figured out how to make the era system!
well it's not perfect but tis is the only way...
trough research!
like with ir u research the "thrawn era" or a what it will be named at, and your fraction gots te bonuses the era brought to the fraction's life...
and by advancing to the next, makes loose the last era's bonuses but gives u new ones, witch makes you have to decide, that wich is better for you...
well the only problem is tat, they cannot be adjusted...
i mean the nr in Palleon era, the NR in Daala, and the ir is left behind in Thrawn...is not a good combo
but still better than nothin, i guess...
...or not?
treat it like just thinking aloud.
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just thinking my prev. idea further: each "era tech" could have techs started from it, resembling the era, like for palpatine era (cuz he liked the "overpowered supertoys") a +10% build speed for SSDs and +5% shield strenght, but a -5% for normal frigates build speed and +5% cost increase for SSD.
for Daala since she "united" the Warlords(we all know how), maybe:
"Reunification"+5% build speed for VSDs and ISDs(kinda represent the captured warlord ships), but gives a 5% penalty for diplomacy.
And so...
What do ya think?
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i think i just figured out how to make the era system!
well it's not perfect but tis is the only way...
trough research!
The thing is, we really don't want to do the era system, it doesn't work as well in a game like Sins, since it's above all a narrative tool; hell, if we remade ICW right now I'm not even sure that I'd use it there.. If we were gonna do it, we'd use the original way Ironclad was going to do the Rebel/loyalist system where research cuts off certain stuff. We can incorporate specific doctrines that are derived from different leaders, but we don't intend to recreate the era system as such.
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I read the blog and some suggestions here, but could someone summarize what kind of tech tree suggestions you're expecting/hoping to see, and if there's an emphasis to certain sector (politics/military/economy etc)? Most of all, I would like to know what kind of suggestions are impossible to implement.
One impossible scenario (sigh!) for example would be having NPC faction for Imperial Remnants acting as "council" which gives missions to their appointed supreme commander, and by completing missions more powerful ships and resources gets unlocked.
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Basically we're looking to get better ideas of what everyone thinks each faction is all about, and how that is best expressed through the tech tree. For example, the two techs in the news post about this emphasize that the Remnant is fine with a quantity over quality approach, and that they don't particularly value the individual lives of their personnel; mostly we're looking for techs where, to get somme bonus, you have to make a sacrifice somewhere else. These can be competing, too, to reflect different styles of leadership (Thrawn vs Daala for example), but that's less important. This can be political, military, economic, whatever; most likely the emphases will vary by faction
What we aren't really looking for is something generic like the basic Sins techs where it's just flat 15% increase to firing rate. We really only want to do that where it's necessary for the game to scale (which tends to be more on the economic side), or if it's something which ONLY that faction should be getting. When every faction gets a 15% boost to power, it's meaningless and just becomes an arms race that cancels itself out and takes away the need for players to make decisions. If you want to just say something like "I think factor x is important and should be reflected" that's helpful.
There's a lot of stuff that's possible, not missions though.
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will the artifacts be presented in the game?
Cuz if yes it would be nice to see them represented as holocrons, cuz this is the basic "relics" of star wars.
Like a holocron that contains information from a better hiperdrive, or a better hull plating, or something like this.
Just got the idea, cuz i never really saw anithing talking about the artifacts.
And as an another question:
what will happen to materials, cuz star wars is mainly working with credits only.
the only game i know wich is not is the star wars battleground wich is pretty old...
and for the matters if you want to keep both resources i want to give as an idea to metal be replaced by durasteel.
as for the real tech tree, for defence the golans should get a "fighter bays" ability trough researc, wich would let em have 1-2 fighter squad in hangar, but would reduce the hull rating of the platform.
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If you look at the UI screenshots, we've had metal as durasteel and crystal as tibanna gas for quite some time.
Also, I do like the idea of renaming artefacts to Holocrons, though we'd have to look more carefully at what we want to do with them (there are certain gameplay mechanics we can only do by co-opting the artefact system, so that would have to take priority if we went that route).
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This thread (http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=4902.msg47193#msg47193) now has all of the currently implemented Imperial techs, so that should also help with anyone who wants to comment on them or suggest new/different ones. We'll do the same with the Hand and New Republic when we're working on those, but at the moment we're just looking to finish the IR for the first alpha.
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How about these:
Imperial Remnant:
Campaign Against the Warlords
Pillage the fiefdoms of the Deep Core! Lose X ships, get Y durasteel and a +Z% bonus to Allegiance on every Imperial world.
Spaarti Cylinders - Buy Ships
You've men to crew your ships, but not ships for your men to crew! Buy ships from thieves and privateers at a premium to correct the deficiency. Building any ship will cause a temporary price increase on subsequent ships, but it will finish building in half the time.
Spaarti Cylinders - Extort Ships
With stormtroopers on your side, nothing is out of reach. Intimidate or kill people who have ships. Building any ship will cause a -1% drop in Allegiance on every planet, but ships will build twice as fast.
Your Lack of Faith Disturbs Me
Enlist a Dark Jedi. Lose X ships to his search for powerful artefacts. If he survives, he returns to the known galaxy to wage war against the New Republic, destroying 2X in the process.
New Republic:
Diverse Crew
More and stranger beings join the Republic Navy every day, and said navy will accommodate them all. New Class ships are more expensive and their build time is increased to 110%/150%/200%. Culture spread is increased by 10% per level.
Divisive Policy
A controversial issue has left the Republic divided. 1/2/3 systems leave and become neutral, while the remaining systems get a 2%/5%/10% boost to Allegiance.
It's a trap!
Mon Calamari ships gain the Detect ability, which temporarily reveals all cloaked ships.
Lando Co.
Establish trade agreements with privately owned mines. Tibanna and Durasteel cost twice as many credits for you, but four times as much for all other players.
Empire of the Hand
Redundancy
Ship hulls do not regenerate, but ships remain fully operational until they're destroyed.
Unknown Threat
Something terrible lies beyond the galaxy. Rally the Unknown Regions against their common enemy. Gain population growth and allegiance, but lose ships and resource production.
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A controversial issue has left the Republic divided. 1/2/3 systems leave and become neutral, while the remaining systems get a 2%/5%/10% boost to Allegiance.
Not possible
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Are you able to make a tech that if researched disabled other techs?
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Unfortunately not.
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Oh darn. I was going to suggest a company of heroes kind of doctrine. Thrawn Pallaeon Daala. Each one giving you different benefits to fit their command style. Possible to create something such as a Thrawn line of techs giving you w/e. I believe you wanted suggestions that give you something but take something else away? Say you choose to upgrade the thrawn techs, the downside to taking it is it reduces the effects the others boost.
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Pallaeon - More friendliness with your fellow empires but you are can't pacify regions as much with a significant reduction in that area whereas a Dalaa would great increase the rate you can pacifcy a planet while getting the friendliness towards other factions MEH!!
I really don't know any technical terms related to sins to help you decipher what in the world I am trying to say so hopefully you understand eh?
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Sorry, I haven't been around in a while, but has conscription been mentioned ? a loss of XP for capital ships vs cheaper capital ships ?
Meo
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Something to help fill out the Defense tech trees:
Improved Targeting Computers: Golan Space Defense Platforms can target 2 / 3 ships at a time.
Quad-Laser Batteries: All levels of Golan Space Defense Platforms gain a battery of mid-range point-defense lasers.
Shielded Stations: All Golan Space Defense Platforms gain energy shields. (should they just have these without requiring research? Most combat-rated things in Star Wars do, barring TIE fighters...)
Invasion Protocols / Planetary Shields: Preparing for enemy invasions increases the likelihood of surviving them. All planets take 5% / 10% / 15% reduced bombing damage from enemy ships.
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For the Empire:
-Faster Deployment
-5/10/15% fighter health
+5/10/15% faster "Fighter build rate"
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What I'm going to say should be considered a longshot thing... (I imagine it to somewhere about 2.0 or so)
Customize-able tech tree.
What I am trying to say with this is if you play as Empire(which had plenty of spaceship classes) you could chose between the Lancers and the Tartan as an example.
Or if NR then between CR90 corellian corvettes or the corellian gunships.
(If it is even possible within the game's engine.) If you research one, it blocks out the other, so you will get a tech tree what you can set up.
This would be extra cool because the World devastators and the Preator IIs are too OP together. Not to mention it would give players a hard time to think which one would worth more, or which one fits with his/her playing-style better.
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You can only do that with one thing per faction. The way it works is you have a tech require a certain faction ID, which then means you're essentially allowed to make one choice. It can be a choice with 2 options, or 8, but it can still only be one choice. Also, if you were to do something like that you're using a lot of memory for ships in redundant roles. It would essentially always have to be adding new ships to existing roles, rather than making it be choices between existing stuff (you need some options within the game beyond just one choice that then locks you in forever, after all; if you choice a tankier ship ie the Praetor at one point, it shouldn't mean you can never go for an offensive option at all, ala the World Devastator; people also would get upset if the unit rosters were limited to effectively 5 frigates, 3 cruisers and 3 capital ships, for example, even if it's a result of having the choice between 11/11/7 or something). When developing playstyles, it's more important to try to nail that down between the factions, rather than diluting that by trying to make 2 hard-defined styles within the same faction, and then doing that 5 times. You're then working to define 10+ overall playstyles and it dilutes everything. With the memory usage it also limits the amount of actual content you can have. This is pretty important in Sins, which requires memory modification (LAA) to run mods in the first place; if you did that sort of branching and had even 1.5x the ship numbers within the same faction, you're sacrificng a lot of overall diversity between factions, since you can't use those resources in game or development-wise for a full faction that can have their own very distinct playstyle options to get what amounts to a tiny amount of diversity within it.
To use a more direct example, if we give you the choice between the Nebulon-B and the Corona as the NR or the IPV/Tartan/Lancer for the IR, are those minor stat differences really a more interesting gameplay choice than what we'd get out of using that space for something like the Sh'ner and Fw'Sen, which while as ships provide some similar stats but as a delivery mechanism can provide for different playstyles within the context of what the Ssi-Ruuvi as a whole can offer (Entechment, etc)? Basically, when it comes to roles and ship types within those roles, the greater variation isn't in the minor stat differences within a faction (because you're ultimately going to be using those ships the same way), rather it's how those roles are emphasized within the faction.
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Point taken.
You are 100% right.
It would just be... you know... Cool to build up my own empire (in a way)...
Well, there are dreams what have to stay dreams...
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No idea if it's a good idea to post in a thread is old, but the topic fits, so...
While playing Ascendancy 0.95 lately the Remnant tech tree with its different "Leader Techs" began bugging me a bit, because it just seems so odd that Daala would just affect diplomacy or Thrawn only frigates. Essentially, i guess, these techs boil down to a "style choice" for the Remnant, so I think they should be either be more expensive or ideally split up in longer tech chains leading to a quite drastic gameplay change.
For example, for me Thrawn always was the "Elitist Leader", where everything had to be at maximum performance, even if it meant slower training whereas Daala would just take whatever she had and ram it frontally in the enemy. Fitting that in the tech tree isn't going to be easy due to the way it is split between civilian and military, but separate tech paths focusing on having individually stronger ships at the expense of building time/cost or weaker but cheaper ships could be very worthwile. Part of this is already in the mod, with faster building but less hull /regen, but new techs could be something like "Thorough Training: Ships of "subclass [Cruiser , etc]" build 10% slower but have 1o% increased stats" 2 Ranks. If that proves to powerful, maybe add increased supply/upkeep to the negatives of the tech. Another idea would be different abilities for ships, but I have no idea if thats even possible. Daala Doctrine : Ships gain the "ram" ability, but lose access to "evasive maneuvering: ability under thrawn doctrine that increases evasion chance or damage reduction, something like that. This should be reflected in the government section as well, Daala doctrine having techs focusing on quick/cheap structure production and high culture resistance and Thrawn more on culture spread / higher allegiance and more effective resource gathering. With those two as the extremes, Pellaeon would fit somewhere in between with a focus on diplomacy and defense.
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If we were to do that, it would have to be through entirely mutually exclusive branches. There are several techs which allow you to emphasize certain parts at the expense of others already in the mod,but not to that extent. The point of those leader doctrine techs isn't to massively change the way you play the faction, it's to emphasize certain aspects in a tech that would almost certainly exist anyway, but to do it in a way that allows us to kick in some of the lore for those interested. For example, we could have what's currently the Daala Doctrine tech as something like "Imperial Purity" or something, but since one of the defining factors of Daala was her unification of the Remnant and her hatred of "warlordism," the tech which is built around that therefore got applied to her. Pellaeon's main efforts were at peace with other factions and accepting the Remnant's place in a new galactic order, so he gets represented by the that tech.
One of the purposes of the mod overall, which we talk about a lot, is to build different styles within each faction, and to have that stay within their own range; one of the reasons we deliberated so long on the Pentastar Alignment being in at all was in order to make sure it didn't come out as a reskinned Imperial Remnant. If we did different mutually exclusive leader branches within the Remnant, that means there has to be enough for five different playstyles within the Remnant, and done in away that doesn't intrude too much with the other factions (which therefore also means it limits the scope of those factions).
Keep in mind, also, what "Doctrine" is used to refer to. It's not a leader's entire political, military and culutral philosophy; it's usually attached to one aspect which defined their administration with respect to foreign affairs, which is what we've done here, save for Thrawn's (which is because it's currently actually a placeholder for two techs). The Monroe Doctrine was about European non-interference in American spheres of influence, but that's not the limit of Monroe's presidency or even foreign policy. The Bush Doctrine is about unilateral democratic regime change as a way to combat terrorism, but that still left room for him to fuck up in other areas too. The Truman Doctrine was about spending with respect to fighting communism. These can all have other implications, but in terms of Sins, these aren't really something that would extend beyond one or two techs either; diplomacy in that way in Sins just isn't super extensive.
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wow that was a crazy fast answer, didn't really expect that :laugh:
Well, I tend to have a rather broad view of things like doctrines, but I definitley understand where you're coming from and why you're limiting the scope of styles for the Remnant. I guess what I'd really like to see is having those "style" choices a bit more effect than currently, but let's see what Ascendancy 1.0 brings. Throwing the Vindicator, Acclamator and Praetor out is a win for me anyway, because honestly, the Vindicator is rather weak as a cruiser - I'd take a Strike Cruiser any day over it -, the Allegiance just looks and feels much more "imperial" to me and the Acclamator, well I know its supposed to be a carrier, but with only one squadron at a time anything else with 1 squadron is about as good if not better.
Btw, tech tree balance hasn't really been a focus point yet, has it? The Remnant has zero techs that increase the defense of its ships whereas the Republic has individually stronger ships later but also quite beefy shield upgrade techs and I'm not sure the damage upgrades from the Remnant can keep up with that.. Adding hull upgrade techs for the Remnant doesn't seem to make much sense lorewise, so how is it intended to keep it balanced? By having a larger fleet through the brutally powerful command/fleet capacity upgrades? Or is the Allegiance going to be the defensive cornerstone that allows the ISD 2's to survive a fleet of Nebula/BAC's? The Praetor right now is so sluggish that it can barely keep up with ISD's.
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IR gets fleet upgrades through research, will always be able to field larger fleets than the NR/EoTH (currently PA also gets them), and that's exactly what the IR was about. Quantity over quality. Yes, they did make some quality ships, but overall, they were all about throwing enough disposable ships at their enemies.
IMO, for the cost (super cheap), the Vindicator is one of the best ships in the game currently. Nothing at it's price point can compete, which is the point. It's not meant to be overly powerful, it's meant to be a good ship for cheap. Praetor is, when compared to anything else anywhere near it, horrendously underpowered, although it's super beefy shields make it a decent damage sink (although would IMO make more sense to have it be lower hull/shields and much more powerful weapons). Also the Acclamator gets 2 squadrons, 3 after their ability. They're essentially useless in combat, but then, that's the same as all the "basic" carriers.
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I should probably clarify: I don't think the Vindicator is a bad ship in itself, its just that a Strike Cruiser has almost double the amount of shields and a pretty powerful tech later for a relatively minor increase in cost, yet it is a frigate. It just really doesn't fit the Cruiser image for me. Not to mention that (IMO) both ships roles overlap and the Strike Cruiser scales better lategame. The Praetor itself is a damagesponge, that fulfills its role rather lackluster because of its slow speed and as far as I see it with partially not yet implemented ability icons, it also cannot taunt enemies to attack it, so most of the time it sits around doing nothing. I totally didn't see that the Acclamator had a ability right from the beginning to get one additional squadron so its fine as a carrier. I'm just wondering what the purpose of that ability is supposed to be instead of just giving it 3 squadrons right from the start.
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Praetor has Bulwark ability, which is EXACTLY what it does. Taunts enemies forcing them to attack it. I actually avoid using it however due to how quickly they die when using the ability, since it has nothing that mitigates damage. Although you must be playing a different game than I, since I've never seen it set around and do nothing, they bring a decent amount of firepower to a battle, even if it's not as much as the Phalanx or even the Syndic. While I'll always take a WD over a Praetor, the Praetor is still an extremely effective ship to have a couple of in a fleet.
I'm only guessing, but since Asdroni, Quasar, and Escort Carrier all start with 2 fighters, then that's probably why the Acclamator starts with 2.
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Ok I should really look more closely on seemingly empty ability slots, turns out the Praetor has a taunt :o With sitting around I mean they always lag behind the rest of my capital ships and forcing me to maneuver them in a position where they jump first, thats why I really hope the Allegiance will be a tad faster.
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Given that it's 1/2 the size, should be faster, although don't expect it to be a race car, it's still bigger than an ISD.
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Btw, tech tree balance hasn't really been a focus point yet, has it? The Remnant has zero techs that increase the defense of its ships whereas the Republic has individually stronger ships later but also quite beefy shield upgrade techs and I'm not sure the damage upgrades from the Remnant can keep up with that.. Adding hull upgrade techs for the Remnant doesn't seem to make much sense lorewise, so how is it intended to keep it balanced? By having a larger fleet through the brutally powerful command/fleet capacity upgrades? Or is the Allegiance going to be the defensive cornerstone that allows the ISD 2's to survive a fleet of Nebula/BAC's? The Praetor right now is so sluggish that it can barely keep up with ISD's.
Most of the tech has not been balanced in terms of pure numbers yet, no. However our goal with balance is not faction x gets this and therefore faction y gets the exact same thing. The first 115 slots or so are being used to build up the more unique aspects for each faction, and then we'll use the rest to fill in any gaps each faction needs.
I actually avoid using it however due to how quickly they die when using the ability, since it has nothing that mitigates damage.
Irrelevant now, but for the five seconds they were on the same faction Praetor Bulwark + Altor Protect was some next level shit... As it is, Bulwark will be getting a defensive boost as well on the PA.
I'm only guessing, but since Asdroni, Quasar, and Escort Carrier all start with 2 fighters, then that's probably why the Acclamator starts with 2.
Pretty much this - the standard in the mod is 1 squad at a time for most ships that had fighters, 2 squads at a time for carriers. PA gets some increases, as do Ssi-Ruuvi ships. The Acclamator gets the option of having the third with some investment, but the investment part is somewhat important since the Acclamator is also theoretically the best carrier at direct combat, even if that isn't saying too much.