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Topic Summary

Posted by: Aeradom
« on: January 20, 2017, 09:31:56 PM »

It's the kind of thing that's usually listed in appendices because comparisons are generally easier that way; the table of contents also directly references the hero bonus section.

While I get what you are saying, I don't really care much about the Imperial Remnants heroes when playing the New Republic. Besides, you already have a section devoted to the factions heroes so it just makes sense to me. Might just be me, though.

That's not as simple as you may think. Things are either put into row 0 or row 1 (bottom or top) and they're filtered in in the order the files are read. Typically this means the units are grouped by class, but if you have them ordered by health, and then you lock out some units or unlock others, that row shifts and it's out of order. If you try to say all light frigates are on one row with all heavy frigates, then all fighters buildings, capitals on the next row, you end up pushing things off the build bar. Especially if you're using variants that are in another file (ie, when we make Hapan ships buildable), which means they're in the order that file is read relative to the other file. Listing the total shield and hull strength should be more than enough, but documentation is usually one of the last things we do.

Wasn't exactly what I was talking about. I meant more like in the blurb that usually accompanies them saying what they are strong or weak against having it there. However, if you are going to have shields and hull strength, then I'm game with that. I just know how that can fluctuate and be looking for a way to make it easier to get to the information.

Pretty sure it's Roselia.

I don't know... what's the one that looks like ice cream? I think it's that one!
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 20, 2017, 12:42:24 PM »

lol :):):):):)
Posted by: Revanchist
« on: January 20, 2017, 12:41:01 PM »

Pretty sure it's Roselia.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 20, 2017, 12:37:54 PM »

really slornie?
Posted by: Slornie
« on: January 20, 2017, 12:35:04 PM »

What's that Pokemon? Struggling to decide between Gligar, Roselia and Haunter! :P


Posted by: Corey
« on: January 19, 2017, 09:57:34 PM »

The Era Breakdown GC posts all have maps of the conquests.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 19, 2017, 09:20:35 PM »

oh, this is amazing. can you post the Galacactic maps and conquests in a place easy to find? another thread of course. tangent over.
Posted by: Corey
« on: January 19, 2017, 07:42:51 PM »

since you displayed the current map, what does the map look like for 2.2?

Don't wanna bring this too far off topic, but since you asked. The fancy front-end one for promo material/manual isn't fully setup yet, so here's the galaxy plot with all current planets as the Galactic Conquest editor we're making currently displays them:


Posted by: GreyStar
« on: January 19, 2017, 07:24:09 PM »

The Nebulon B has weak armament but is capable of extreme long range fire (about the same range as the Majestic so longer then any other Republic light or heavy frigate, but not as insane as the Preator or a Golan) so it provies good support if used as a carrier, and power to shields prevents it's destruction (against humans, AI target anything that uses power to shields, ironically making the Neb Bs not very good tanks in my experience.) However it carries an X-Wing and a Y-Wing squadron making it a great multipurpose light carrier.

The B2 has stronger hull and shielding, in addition to a concussion missile launcher (and maybe stronger guns, not sure) at the cost of hangar space. So the end result is something that's basically a slightly stronger Assault Frigate, but the Assault Frigate lacks power to shields and has a weaker hull (maybe) but at the very least carries 2 X-Wing squadrons.

So the B2 has zero reason to use, unless of course you're Zijni.

Meanwhile, the CR90 has loads of lasers on it. The DP20 has less lasers and concussion missiles but fires slower. But has unlimited Power to Engines. My recomendation is using the CR90 for when the Empire is launching massive amounts of TIEs (Eras 1-3, 3 espically with the MTC and Executors) but I recommend switching to the DP20 if you feel the Empire is using too powerful fighters (replacing anti-Fighter intended Carriers or Lancers with TIE Defenders for example, or in Era 4, or 5 espically with the preybird.) Or for use against the Empire of the Hand.
Posted by: DarthRevansRevenge
« on: January 19, 2017, 07:17:51 PM »

since you displayed the current map, what does the map look like for 2.2?
Posted by: Pali
« on: January 19, 2017, 05:19:50 PM »

The Nebulon B2 isn't necessarily better than the basic Nebulon B - it is a better tank and ship-ship combatant, but it lacks fighters while the Neb-b has two squadrons.  The Neb-B is a multi role ship, serving as a decent light carrier and light frigate, while the B2 is a strong frigate.
Posted by: Corey
« on: January 19, 2017, 04:15:16 PM »

Quote
Holy cow, there it is! I'll tell you why I kept missing it was because I'd just look in the faction chapter for the information as the heroes are listed out there. I guess it's a mute point as you are doing it in 2.2, but I think it be more intuitive if in the manual the abilities were listed with the appropriate chapters. But like I said, probably not worth it at this point.

It's the kind of thing that's usually listed in appendices because comparisons are generally easier that way; the table of contents also directly references the hero bonus section.

Quote
what about a more vague idea in comparison with others in the class. I assume that while the numbers might change in general a Nebulon B-2 Frigate will be superior to a Nebulon B Frigate. So for example, let's say that if you look at the list of frigates (sorted by hitpoint value) and see that the one in the middle is the Nebulon B-2 Frigate. This would make this frigate "average" and you work from there. So like, the Nebulon B Frigate would be "below average". This sort of organizing would be more helpful for players anyways as you can tell at a glance if a ship would be an upgrade and just how much so. I also think it look better in the UI.

That's not as simple as you may think. Things are either put into row 0 or row 1 (bottom or top) and they're filtered in in the order the files are read. Typically this means the units are grouped by class, but if you have them ordered by health, and then you lock out some units or unlock others, that row shifts and it's out of order. If you try to say all light frigates are on one row with all heavy frigates, then all fighters buildings, capitals on the next row, you end up pushing things off the build bar. Especially if you're using variants that are in another file (ie, when we make Hapan ships buildable), which means they're in the order that file is read relative to the other file. Listing the total shield and hull strength should be more than enough, but documentation is usually one of the last things we do.


Quote
Also, your description of the different corvettes was extremely helpful! I have been stuck attempting to figure out which one to fill the anti-starfighter role and assumed the gunship was superior as it had concussive missiles (I looked at the manual and it said that those missiles are better than lasers against strike craft). Perhaps along with the armor and hitpoint, have two more sections for anti-starfighter and anti-ship (or something to that effect). This would be immensely helpful in allowing players to identify areas the fleet is weak in and look to address those inadequacies.

Lasers and missiles are both good anti-fighter. Missiles are better, but missiles also typically have higher cooldowns that make them better upfront damage and worse for fighting waves of fighters.
Posted by: Aeradom
« on: January 19, 2017, 03:52:23 PM »

There's a chapter later on in the manual listing all the abilities and bonuses for units and heroes in table form.  I may revisit this for the 2.2 version (but no promises).

Page 121/122 specifically, though it's also gonna be in game in 2.2 either way.

Holy cow, there it is! I'll tell you why I kept missing it was because I'd just look in the faction chapter for the information as the heroes are listed out there. I guess it's a mute point as you are doing it in 2.2, but I think it be more intuitive if in the manual the abilities were listed with the appropriate chapters. But like I said, probably not worth it at this point.

I just had to go double check this.  In 2.1 the ground map from Corulag was used on three planets out of 145: Corulag, Morishim and Talfaglio.  I think the distribution of planets using the map (in galactic/GC terms) may have more to do with it than pure frequency.

I honestly wouldn't say it's that condensed; this is the distribution. You probably just got unlucky in which battles you ended up doing in a row.

Before ending the game out of boredom (was playing on normal as it was the first time) I mostly waged a ground campaign in the Core region. Part of the reason it might have felt like I did it more was that I was crashing and having to reload a lot so I apologize.

Armour and hitpoint data has been requested before, but that's a lot of additional information to include in an area which is frequently subject to change (i.e. lots of work to maintain).

As we've said in a few places, we're doing more documentation as it becomes possible in 2.2, however there are always going to be some stats we can't list without basically just pasting the unit code in the manual so in some cases less information is more and players are better off using experimentation to see which units they prefer. Giving too much information can turn off players looking for basic information, and also be much harder to retain. We likely won't go too far beyond adding health and shields.

I can sympathize with that, but perhaps I have a compromise. Instead of worrying about the exact figures that are often in flux, what about a more vague idea in comparison with others in the class. I assume that while the numbers might change in general a Nebulon B-2 Frigate will be superior to a Nebulon B Frigate. So for example, let's say that if you look at the list of frigates (sorted by hitpoint value) and see that the one in the middle is the Nebulon B-2 Frigate. This would make this frigate "average" and you work from there. So like, the Nebulon B Frigate would be "below average". This sort of organizing would be more helpful for players anyways as you can tell at a glance if a ship would be an upgrade and just how much so. I also think it look better in the UI. It could be done in a wiki and would be something I'd be happy to do myself but someone would have to help me in reading the list and accessing it.

Also, your description of the different corvettes was extremely helpful! I have been stuck attempting to figure out which one to fill the anti-starfighter role and assumed the gunship was superior as it had concussive missiles (I looked at the manual and it said that those missiles are better than lasers against strike craft). Perhaps along with the armor and hitpoint, have two more sections for anti-starfighter and anti-ship (or something to that effect). This would be immensely helpful in allowing players to identify areas the fleet is weak in and look to address those inadequacies.
Posted by: Corey
« on: January 19, 2017, 02:20:03 PM »

Quote
There's a chapter later on in the manual listing all the abilities and bonuses for units and heroes in table form.  I may revisit this for the 2.2 version (but no promises).

Page 121/122 specifically, though it's also gonna be ingame in 2.2 either way.


Quote
To be fair it probably was a bit of an exaggeration but I'm sure I saw the map from Corulag several times in that condensed area. Again, it's not that it repeats that's what bothersome but seeing it again so soon. But it seems like it's being addressed so that's nice to know.
Quote
I just had to go double check this.  In 2.1 the ground map from Corulag was used on three planets out of 145: Corulag, Morishim and Talfaglio.  I think the distribution of planets using the map (in galactic/GC terms) may have more to do with it than pure frequency.

I honestly wouldn't say it's that condensed; this is the distribution. You probably just got unlucky in which battles you ended up doing in a row.


Quote
I'm glad @Corey you brought up the era system because I do have one issue with it. Don't misunderstand me; I much prefer this way of doing things compared to the base game. But how about removing some build options that have been superseded. It would make things less confusing for me, say when I'm trying to determine which of these light frigates (Corellian Corvette, Corellian Gunship, Sachseen). This goes back to the issue of above where it gets really tough to tell which one is ultimately better. I know the manual outlines their weaponry and what they do against particular targets (appreciate that), it still is a lot of work that could be taken care of by decommissioning one of the older ships. Like is it really necessary to be able to build the Nebulon B-Frigate when the Nebulon B-2 is available?

Certain ships are left in, even though they're older or outclassed by some time, because Empire at War's strength is at least partially its narrative aspects. We removed one ship 7 years ago because it was too similar to another ship that became available at the same time, and people have literally not stopped asking about it since. So, as long as they don't preclude the inclusion of other newer things by clogging the build bar, as long as they were still used inc anon there are some ships we let stick around because there are people who want to build them so they can have a "canon" version of a certain fleet or battle. Otherwise, you'd literally never have ships like the Nebulon-B or the ISD-I. In Ascendancy, our sins mod, which is less narrative and more gameplay focused, that's less of an issue (hence only including one ship per role). As we've said in a few places, we're doing more documentation as it becomes possible in 2.2, however there are always going to be some stats we can't list without basically just pasting the unit code in the manual so in some cases less information is more and players are better off using experimentation to see which units they prefer. Giving too much information can turn off players looking for basic information, and also be much harder to retain. We likely won't go too far beyond adding health and shields. It's probably more suitable for the wiki. Accuracy, for example, isn't just determined per ship, it's per each weapon on each ship. For an example in the potential problems of an infodump making it harder for people to find the basic relevant information, the hero bonuses we've already addressed, but the information we've already given in the manual should also address some of what you've said even here; with the three examples that you've given there (DR90, DP20 and Sacheen) none of those really do the same thing; while they're all smaller, even their armaments are very different. One's pure anti-fighter (CR90), one's decent anti-fighter and anti-ship (DP20) and the other has heavy turbolasers and an ion cannon, with only one laser cannon (which makes it pretty bad anti-fighter) while also carrying a fighter squadron (Sacheen).
Posted by: Slornie
« on: January 19, 2017, 12:50:56 PM »

The manual only says that they are heroes and where they are used. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only heroes that give bonuses are the ones with the glowy circle around them? If all heroes will grant that morale bonus then I'm good as I can easily figure out where people go.
There's a chapter later on in the manual listing all the abilities and bonuses for units and heroes in table form.  I may revisit this for the 2.2 version (but no promises).

To be fair it probably was a bit of an exaggeration but I'm sure I saw the map from Corulag several times in that condensed area. Again, it's not that it repeats that's what bothersome but seeing it again so soon. But it seems like it's being addressed so that's nice to know.
I just had to go double check this.  In 2.1 the ground map from Corulag was used on three planets out of 145: Corulag, Morishim and Talfaglio.  I think the distribution of planets using the map (in galactic/GC terms) may have more to do with it than pure frequency.

And while we're on the subject, is it possible to get more information on these vehicles that fit similar roles? For instance, getting armor and hit point values would be great to know when purchasing ships to find out which is the hardier.
Armour and hitpoint data has been requested before, but that's a lot of additional information to include in an area which is frequently subject to change (i.e. lots of work to maintain).
Those working on this mod do so in their own free time and for no pay.
Show your support for them by enabling ads on this site!