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Topic Summary

Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 29, 2012, 11:25:03 PM »

I don't really get why a chaingun would need deployment, or really what the difference would be in practice between this and the repeater.
That kind of misses the point of Artillery. They're meant to be long range, and that deficiency is what balances them, along with their deployment.
So, practically just a regular NR soldier bt with more health, really.

The Katarn Commandos were a specific group of people, they weren't multiple units so building them would be kind of like making a building unit called "Rogue Squadron" with multiple of them available. As for generic commandos in general, we've already covered this. That's what the infiltrators are. The NR doesn't need a stronger version of regular infantry squads. They also don't need more infantry heroes, or heroes in general. There isn't even room for them on the hero bar as it is.

Nothing like this exists.

Good news every, Corey is right. Still it fun trying to think of new units. I cant even think of anymore. Why, well I've been playing 2.0 and it feels like infantry have been buffed. If they haven't, please don't tell me as it would stop the placebo effect. BTW, specialist feel like they have little health and I know why, it's because they are medics and NOT front line troops. That is all.
Posted by: Corey
« on: August 29, 2012, 03:37:19 AM »

1) A new chain-gun trooper. If you've played any battlefront you know what I am talking about. It could be a remodel of the Plex troopers rocket launcher. They would need to be setup to fire(15% less time then E-Webs to keep with the NR hit and run tactics) but they would do less damage to infantry(30% less) but more damage to light vehicles (15%) so that way the can target them, unlike Plex who have a hard time hitting fast moving vehicles. They could also have two per squad and two squads per company for balance.

I don't really get why a chaingun would need deployment, or really what the difference would be in practice between this and the repeater.

2)Artillery comes with a basic squad or two of infantry except they only get three members per squad. Artillery can have a hard time hitting infantry at close range so having a squad would help this deficiency.
That kind of misses the point of Artillery. They're meant to be long range, and that deficiency is what balances them, along with their deployment.

3) Add an infiltrators with a regular blaster rifle. I'm a HUGE fan of this idea ever since Corey said it was possible. Nit like a guy running around with an E-Web, just an infiltrator who has a blaster rifle, and maybe no thermal det ability to balance it.
So, practically just a regular NR soldier bt with more health, really.

4) A commando unit/ Katarn Commandos. Yes I know we have been over this, but I think its a good idea. A four to five man squad with more health and damage but cost, lets say, 650 credits.Now I' not expecting them to win every gun fight, but maybe the ability to take on two infantry squads and win but only have one, very injured man remaining. No need for new models, they could just look like regular infantry. And Katarn Commandos or, Elite Squadron was it, could be they hero form. More people per squad but if they all die, they don't come back. and with all hero, slightly more health/damage/speed. Oh, and the reg commando unit could be two squads of four to five men per company.  Also make them build able at infiltrator academies.

The Katarn Commandos were a specific group of people, they weren't multiple units so building them would be kind of like making a building unit called "Rogue Squadron" with multiple of them available. As for generic commandos in general, we've already covered this. That's what the infiltrators are. The NR doesn't need a stronger version of regular infantry squads. They also don't need more infantry heroes, or heroes in general. There isn't even room for them on the hero bar as it is.

5) Heavily armored juggernauts. They could be very slow, one per company and have a flamethrower or flechett(?) rifle and have more health and cost 950 credits. This is in here because it can be and is just a fun idea.=P

Nothing like this exists.
Posted by: Slornie
« on: August 28, 2012, 12:37:40 PM »

2)Artillery comes with a basic squad or two of infantry except they only get three members per squad. Artillery can have a hard time hitting infantry at close range so having a squad would help this deficiency.
This seems rather pointless. If you want to guard your artillery with infantry, bring along an infantry squad.
Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 28, 2012, 12:13:04 PM »

Does anyone like these ideas?
Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 27, 2012, 08:25:39 PM »

Alright I still have ideas for infantry units. Now since Corey said they couldn't remodel, these all just involve new weapons models and projectiles which he said they could do. Note: I am not good with cannon so please tell me if these are not cannon. Also these are for the New Republic only. If you want some for a dif faction, go make a thread for it.

1) A new chain-gun trooper. If you've played any battlefront you know what I am talking about. It could be a remodel of the Plex troopers rocket launcher. They would need to be setup to fire(15% less time then E-Webs to keep with the NR hit and run tactics) but they would do less damage to infantry(30% less) but more damage to light vehicles (15%) so that way the can target them, unlike Plex who have a hard time hitting fast moving vehicles. They could also have two per squad and two squads per company for balance.

2)Artillery comes with a basic squad or two of infantry except they only get three members per squad. Artillery can have a hard time hitting infantry at close range so having a squad would help this deficiency.

3) Add an infiltrators with a regular blaster rifle. I'm a HUGE fan of this idea ever since Corey said it was possible. Nit like a guy running around with an E-Web, just an infiltrator who has a blaster rifle, and maybe no thermal det ability to balance it.

4) A commando unit/ Katarn Commandos. Yes I know we have been over this, but I think its a good idea. A four to five man squad with more health and damage but cost, lets say, 650 credits.Now I' not expecting them to win every gun fight, but maybe the ability to take on two infantry squads and win but only have one, very injured man remaining. No need for new models, they could just look like regular infantry. And Katarn Commandos or, Elite Squadron was it, could be they hero form. More people per squad but if they all die, they don't come back. and with all hero, slightly more health/damage/speed. Oh, and the reg commando unit could be two squads of four to five men per company.  Also make them build able at infiltrator academies.

5) Heavily armored juggernauts. They could be very slow, one per company and have a flamethrower or flechett(?) rifle and have more health and cost 950 credits. This is in here because it can be and is just a fun idea.=P

If there are ANY canon issues with these please inform me and I would like to hear your feedback. Also I am hellbent on a new infantry unit for the New Republic if you couldn't tell. =P


Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 27, 2012, 01:47:25 AM »

As tmiller said, the T2-Bs already are fantastic anti-infantry. But give 2.0 a try, and specifically field some armored freerunners and T1-Bs. They're cheap, fast, and have very good firing rates that wreck infantry.

Note that the IR lacks an equivalent of the T2-B. The closest would be the AT-STs or AT-PTs, both of which are slower and don't run on repulsorlifts (depriving them of some mobility on water-heavy maps). But even then the T2-B is shielded, which lets you use some more hit and run tactics.
Thanks for the input. Just tryed out 2.0 and it is fun. Now I have to find a reason to add in those repeater infiltrators.
Posted by: yutpaeksi
« on: August 27, 2012, 12:52:52 AM »

I just realized why the NR should have some form of anti-infantry unit(like E-Webs). I can not think of one anti infantry unit/crowd control unit that the New Republic fields. The Hand has flame tanks, the Empire has E-Webs, I'm sure the Penstar has something. Artillery units don't count as they can only fire when stationary. I haven't played 2.0 yet, but I don't think they added a crowd control unit. Unless everyone counts T-2B's or if the new Rebel Armored Freerunner(the one with the guns, not the transport always get their names confused) as one. Now I think I have a reason to preach an E-Web equivalent. Maybe an infantry squad with less people but re-skinned/modeled weapons and projectiles. I'd say 60% less people, 45% greater fire rate and maybe 30-45% more damage? Maybe? Or am I just going mental and can't see they clearly have an anti-infantry unit.

As tmiller said, the T2-Bs already are fantastic anti-infantry. But give 2.0 a try, and specifically field some armored freerunners and T1-Bs. They're cheap, fast, and have very good firing rates that wreck infantry.

Note that the IR lacks an equivalent of the T2-B. The closest would be the AT-STs or AT-PTs, both of which are slower and don't run on repulsorlifts (depriving them of some mobility on water-heavy maps). But even then the T2-B is shielded, which lets you use some more hit and run tactics.
Posted by: tlmiller
« on: August 26, 2012, 09:08:47 PM »

E-Webs can only fire when stationary.  And there is no better anti-infantry unit than the T2-B tank.
Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 26, 2012, 08:50:42 PM »

I just realized why the NR should have some form of anti-infantry unit(like E-Webs). I can not think of one anti infantry unit/crowd control unit that the New Republic fields. The Hand has flame tanks, the Empire has E-Webs, I'm sure the Penstar has something. Artillery units don't count as they can only fire when stationary. I haven't played 2.0 yet, but I don't think they added a crowd control unit. Unless everyone counts T-2B's or if the new Rebel Armored Freerunner(the one with the guns, not the transport always get their names confused) as one. Now I think I have a reason to preach an E-Web equivalent. Maybe an infantry squad with less people but re-skinned/modeled weapons and projectiles. I'd say 60% less people, 45% greater fire rate and maybe 30-45% more damage? Maybe? Or am I just going mental and can't see they clearly have an anti-infantry unit.
Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 26, 2012, 08:17:21 PM »

I spent the better part of my thursday night specifically responding to your posts. If you're going to claim you're just being ignored now, that's just disrespectful and dishonest.

I'm not claiming, or saying, this thread is being ignored, that was merely meant to be said jokingly. I know that everyone who has posted on this thread has spent valuable parts of their lives trying to respond to each other. I did not mean to be disrespectful in any way, and if it came of that I was disrespectful I am truly sorry as I hate disrespectful people.

And yes, I know have noticed that you have all responded to my ideas, and the other peoples ideas and I thank you all for it. Since all the points in this entire thread have been met I see why no on is posting on it anymore. And btw, when I said light repeaters I was just think  that it would have 1.5x the normal fire rate, not E-Web fire rate and firepower. *sigh* I guess there never was a need to add commandos, as they would not have a roll to fill.
Posted by: Corey
« on: August 26, 2012, 05:05:28 PM »

Yutpaeksi covered pretty well why a repeater infiltrator like what you're suggesting wouldn't really work, it'd be way more powerful than the E-Web which fits a pretty niche purpose as it is.

What questions are we not answering, exactly? The only things you've asked about since my 4000 word response on page three was repeatedly asking for us to give the New Republic an E-Web without ever really saying what it is about the E-Web that's so vital for the New Republic to get. Several of us have responded to that as well, multiple times in multiple posts.

Just because you don't like our responses or agree with them doesn't mean we aren't responding. We've given reasons why the possible E-Web "equivalents" you've mentioned for the NR wouldn't fit in very well, but you haven't given any actual reason why they need one in the first place. All you've really said is "why not" and "it would be nice".

1.Problem(kinda)
IR has E-Webs, would be nice if other factions got equivalents

"Would be nice" isn't really an argument for them, especially when people have pointed out why the suggested alternatives for the NR would be imbalanced.

In your next post on the subject:

Do you have any better ideas then BESIDES only the imps should get them.

You have never said why it's such a bad thing that only the Remnant has E-Webs. Should we give the Remnant Jedi and snipers as well? Or maybe an airspeeder? The NR has those things, so why shouldn't the IR? The only reasons you've given that the other factions need these "E-Web equivalents" is that the IR has an E-Web, which isn't sufficient. We don't have the resources or the build bar space to throw in another infantry unit, especially one as complex as the E-Web, just because it would be nice. The other factions are at no disadvantage because the IR has them, not every faction needs to have the same unit. I've said this multiple times.

Do you have any better ideas then BESIDES only the imps should get them. And yes, I am very aware of the camels. My whole idea was to make infantry play a BIGGER role in this mod. I have been getting very mixed reactions to all my ideas. That is where I am coming from. And it appears that infantry will be getting even weaker in 2.0 thanks to the removal of take-cover. That's why I wanted a stronger special forces unit. This is why I want E-Web equivalents. To make up for that deficiency. I want people to use infantry when invading planets, not just defending them. I cant think of anything else to say.

There isn't a deficiency though. And adding more "commando" units does not make infantry better. The units you've been suggesting are entirely anti-infantry. A flamethrower will not be effective against tanks, only against infantry. A light repeater will not be effective against tanks, only against infantry. Adding an infnatry unit which would be used entirely for anti infantry purposes does not make infantry more useful, it makes them easier to kill.

To the specific "equivalents" you suggested (which has already been adequately addressed in the post right after yours, to my mind): As Yutpaeksi said, the difference between E-Webs and repeaters/flamethrowers is in the deployment. If the units are running around with light repeaters like that, it's gonna be overpowered. With E-Webs they have to come to you, with the portable flamethrowers and repeaters like what you're suggesting then they can be used primarily offensively, and in that case infantry would be even less of a factor in combat because these single individual commando units would be able to destroy multiple squads of them. Sure it makes a single-high value infantry unit, but that just means there's even less of a reason to use regular infantry except as damage soaks to stop your commandos (being used as the primary infantry) from getting one-shotted by a turret.

Basically, what's the difference in effectiveness between EotH's flametank and a commando holding the same flamethrower? You can see the problems that would pose.

For a shotgun, you're essentially asking for a short range unit that can still only hit a tiny amounts of targets at a time. Sure one shot kills the enemy, but that's basically already the case. Unless they had huge bumps to their health, these would just get mowed down on their way to a target. If you're asking for new commando type units because the Jedi are too short ranged, then imagine Jedi with less helth, no health regen, and no ability to deflect shots.


Quote from: ArcHeavyGunner
Is anyone still reading this thread? I still want an answer to my questions that are mentioned above. (to self)No one is reading this thread anymore Jeremy, just stop trying.

I spent the better part of my thursday night specifically responding to your posts. If you're going to claim you're just being ignored now, that's just disrespectful and dishonest.

If you want to claim the New Republic is at a disadvantage, you need to actually back that up.

If you want the NR to get an E-Web equivalent to the point that you're willing to act like it's that urgent and that important, you need a better reason than just "the IR has one" or "it would be nice". Those aren't sufficient reasons to spend that much time and that many resources on a unit when we have so much other stuff we could be working on. Other than it being actually necessary for balance, if it was just a matter of "it might be cool", then it's something we'll either be able to get to or we won't; something we'll either have the resources to make or we won't.
Posted by: ArcHeavyGunner
« on: August 26, 2012, 03:14:48 PM »

So is there any chance, even a remote chance, of adding repeater infiltrators or E-Web equivalents of some form to at least one other faction. I always thought the New Republic was meant to be played defensively so they could get the E-Web variant. Is anyone still reading this thread? I still want an answer to my questions that are mentioned above. (to self)No one is reading this thread anymore Jeremy, just stop trying.
Posted by: Zeron
« on: August 23, 2012, 09:35:44 PM »

I quote Wookieepedia: The armor significantly reduced damage to the wearer from a blaster bolt.

Enough said.

I quote Wookiepedia: Although it could be penetrated by a direct blaster bolt. It disperses the blast enough that low-powered civilian blasters would have little effect. However heavier blasters can easily punch through. Every time a stormtrooper has taken a direct hit they've gone down. It might not necessarily kill them (shown in the X-Wing series where a pilot takes a direct hit in stormie armor and is severely injured but not dead), but they're out of combat regardless.
Posted by: Revanchist
« on: August 23, 2012, 09:29:02 PM »

Stormtrooper armor helps defend against environmental hazards, physical weaponry, and low-grade blaster fire. Against military-grade blasters it does absolutely nothing. As seen by Han Solo's illegal heavy-grade pistol easily penetrating and killing stormtroopers.

I quote Wookieepedia: The armor significantly reduced damage to the wearer from a blaster bolt.

Enough said.
Posted by: tlmiller
« on: August 23, 2012, 09:23:05 PM »

None of the testers have access to this stuff in their builds yet, but I've been playing around with ground stuff a lot in the last week or so. Movement speeds for infantry have doubled (0.8 to 1.6) and vehicles have all increased somewhere between 20% and 50% as well. Line of sight has also been doubled for all units. Garrisons are also not unlimited now (except for infantry), which have been one of the biggest tedium-increasing factors in ground battles, I find. There's nothing worse than making all of this progress in ground battles, then it doesn't fucking matter at all because here comes the exact same units you just killed. Now you get two cycles of them, then it's over.

I dare say that one change will make land battles fun for the factions.
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